Where are you playing tomorrow - Chicago (Round2)

[Argonne69]

Heading out to LA on Wednesday for 7 rounds. I'll be starting in Ventura at Olivas Links, and working my way clockwise around the city. My final round with be at Trump National on Sunday morning.

[chisag]

Heading out to LA on Wednesday for 7 rounds. I'll be starting in Ventura at Olivas Links, and working my way clockwise around the city. My final round with be at Trump National on Sunday morning.

 

... Two of my favorite courses in LA are Rustic Canyon and Olivas Links. It was 105* in the valley and I went to Olivas Links in my shorts and golf shirt only to find it in the upper 50's with a thick fog rolling in and about 100yds was max visibility for several holes til it burned off enough to see where shots were landing. This was the middle of the afternoon, so I had to return a few weeks later to really enjoy the layout. On the other hand, I would not play a trump course for free.

[Argonne69]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

[DavePelz4]

getgolfed,

 

don't know where you live or how much you play.

Sportsman's has 27 holes and a good range at one destination.

our course is busy. proshop does a good business. youth leagues and instruction as well.

we have one of the best instructors in Illinois. look up Michael Wenzel.

feel free to do your own research or ask players in northern Illinois.

our cafe is clean, has a good menu and I eat there every time we play.

locals support this place and we get a lot of patronage from Chicago residents.

the more the merrier.

 

Arrowhead in Wheaton is a 27 hole facility, and per their 2017 annual report, had just under 47,000 rounds. The two Naperhell courses averaged 36,500 rounds or 73,000 total. Sportsman's having nearly 40% more rounds is a bit tough to comprehend.

 

don't shoot the messenger fellas. I simply read the accountants report and shared the word.

63000 one year, 66000 another.

as Argonne pointed out, we have a nine minute tee time spread. very do-able.

 

curious, are the price points at the courses out west similar to ours?

 

Apologies...wasn't meant that way and appreciate you posting the facts as stated.

 

The Naper courses are 8 or 9 minute intervals and depending on the day/time/age, are probably $20 to $50. Wheaton is 9 minutes (I think) but their rate is probably $40 on the low and pushing $85 during prime time. All 3 courses are nicely profitable except for Naperbrook and the funky charges from the city. They make money but not as much.

[mci711]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

 

GO TO PELICAN HILL! haha, Trump National is pretty, but so extremely boring. I'd take either right now though, to be honest!

[Argonne69]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

 

GO TO PELICAN HILL! haha, Trump National is pretty, but so extremely boring. I'd take either right now though, to be honest!

 

I played both courses at PH back in 2017. I thought both were better than TN. However, TN is closer to the airport, and I'm hesitant to be that far from the airport. I'll likely make my final decision later in the week.

[mci711]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

 

GO TO PELICAN HILL! haha, Trump National is pretty, but so extremely boring. I'd take either right now though, to be honest!

 

I played both courses at PH back in 2017. I thought both were better than TN. However, TN is closer to the airport, and I'm hesitant to be that far from the airport. I'll likely make my final decision later in the week.

 

Ah gotcha. If you've played them maybe not worth the drive all the way down there. Are you playing Industry Hills? I am so disappointed I haven't played Rustic Canyon. I was there 2 years ago for the super bowl and it was 45 degrees and downpour the day I was supposed to play it. It may have been warmer here that day, if I remember correctly. That was a trip gone wrong.

[WAB]

Heading out to LA on Wednesday for 7 rounds. I'll be starting in Ventura at Olivas Links, and working my way clockwise around the city. My final round with be at Trump National on Sunday morning.

 

If you are going to be up in the Ventura area, you need to play Ojai Valley Inn. A must. Lots of history and a gem of a course. You will NOT regret it. played 3 rounds there in December.

 

Trump National is narrow and requires some course knowledge on approach shots (a little extreme). I haven't played Pelican Hill (Newport Beach), but I have been told by numerous people that its a much better choice. Expensive though (~$300).

 

Pacific Palms a is a great course (the IKE). Its in Industry Hills. Lots of great views of the San Gabriel Mountains. Good & fair challenge. Many tournaments held there.

[mci711]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

 

GO TO PELICAN HILL! haha, Trump National is pretty, but so extremely boring. I'd take either right now though, to be honest!

 

I played both courses at PH back in 2017. I thought both were better than TN. However, TN is closer to the airport, and I'm hesitant to be that far from the airport. I'll likely make my final decision later in the week.

 

Planning on catching any golf at Riv?

[Argonne69]

It'll likely be raining at Olivas Links when I tee off at 6:28 am. I wouldn't bet against fog. I'll be playing Rustic Canyon on Friday afternoon. 'Should be decent weather.

 

I played TN last year. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not top 10. In my goofy attempt to play the Old Course at St Andrews as my 500th course, I have to limit myself to six new courses on this trip, so TN got the nod. I may change my mind and head south to Pelican Hill.

 

GO TO PELICAN HILL! haha, Trump National is pretty, but so extremely boring. I'd take either right now though, to be honest!

 

I played both courses at PH back in 2017. I thought both were better than TN. However, TN is closer to the airport, and I'm hesitant to be that far from the airport. I'll likely make my final decision later in the week.

 

Planning on catching any golf at Riv?

 

No time. I have the first tee time of the day on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and then it's off to my second round in the late morning. I'll finish around 3:30 pm, and then on to the next hotel. Given the distances between the courses, and the traffic, there was no real way to stay in a single place.

 

My current agenda includes Olivas Links (Ventura), Angeles National (Sunland), Tierra Rejada (Moorpark), Rustic Canyon (Moorpark), Oak Quarry (Riverside), Black Gold (Yorba Linda), and Trump National. I may substitute Goose Creek for Black Gold if I can get on. They don't allow singles to book.

[Shriner]

There is a very enlightening article regarding this subject, which was published by the Daily Herald, I believe. I don't have the time to find it now but can probably be googled. The VAST majority of all municipal courses lose money, year after year. Typically, the only courses that turn a profit have a banquet hall which can handle weddings, etc. Obviously the article did not have access to the financials for other public courses not owned by a municipality, such as a Hilldale or Blackstone or Mistwood. With that said, one can surmise that these courses typically lose money as well.

 

This is the business situation these courses are in due to our climate and we our very lucky that these courses continue to receive support when we all know they are worth more as residential developments.

 

For example, the leaders in Mt. Prospect clearly stated that they do not expect to ever recoup the money that went into their course re-design. They view the course as an attraction for the Village.

[@_the_crook]

There is a very enlightening article regarding this subject, which was published by the Daily Herald, I believe. I don't have the time to find it now but can probably be googled. The VAST majority of all municipal courses lose money, year after year. Typically, the only courses that turn a profit have a banquet hall which can handle weddings, etc. Obviously the article did not have access to the financials for other public courses not owned by a municipality, such as a Hilldale or Blackstone or Mistwood. With that said, one can surmise that these courses typically lose money as well.

 

This is the business situation these courses are in due to our climate and we our very lucky that these courses continue to receive support when we all know they are worth more as residential developments.

 

For example, the leaders in Mt. Prospect clearly stated that they do not expect to ever recoup the money that went into their course re-design. They view the course as an attraction for the Village.

 

this may have something to do with Sportman's interest in including a larger restaurant - public use facility inside the clubhouse.

appreciate your mentioning this and I'll take a gander thru gurgle.

I just can't imagine two years of downtime and how they can possibly recoup the investment on the course itself.

maybe they aren't looking for payback in the short term, but as Shriner stated - building an attraction.

they did mention a bond issue....

[Shriner]

I found it! Very interesting article with a spreadsheet table for local courses.

 

https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160302/news/160309804/

 

Mt. Prospect renovation was $8.1 million and they said they will never recoup the cost (and they don't care!)

 

I can't imagine it is easy running a business that is only open during daylight, only open when warm and still has year-round expenses. I feel like we have an embarassment of riches when it comes to golf courses in the Chicago area.

[Argonne69]

Are these really businesses, though? They're municipal owned recreational facilities. Do baseball fields, tennis courts, and swimming pools turn a profit? Very doubtful. I'm sure they don't want to lose millions a year, but the taxpayers are subsidizing these facilities to provide benefit to the community.

 

I'm curious how DuPage County managed to turn a profit. I'm guessing the renovation of the Preserve was not figured into the expenses, but shows up in another category in the county budget.

[DavePelz4]

Are these really businesses, though? They're municipal owned recreational facilities. Do baseball fields, tennis courts, and swimming pools turn a profit? Very doubtful. I'm sure they don't want to lose millions a year, but the taxpayers are subsidizing these facilities to provide benefit to the community.

 

Great comment. They're really non-profits designed to enhance the quality of life for the residents of the community and receive some funding through the taxes we all pay. Some facilities like Arrowhead are cash positive and add back into the general fund. In 2017, the Naperville courses added $100K back into the general budget although they positioned it as break even.

[Argonne69]

The smartest thing Arrowhead ever did was build that new clubhouse. I understand there was a lot of opposition, but it has turned into a cash cow.

[Shriner]

Are these really businesses, though? They're municipal owned recreational facilities. Do baseball fields, tennis courts, and swimming pools turn a profit? Very doubtful. I'm sure they don't want to lose millions a year, but the taxpayers are subsidizing these facilities to provide benefit to the community.

 

 

Agreed. Municipal courses - Definitely not a business. However, not all courses are municipal. So many of these courses are privately owned and that is where my shock comes from. Think about the fact that many of the privately owned courses are *nicer* courses than municipal courses, which means more maintenance costs. Golf play is down, you can't play all year here, yet they still remain open. Amazing...

[Argonne69]

However, the "nicer" courses also have higher green fees for the most part. Most of the better local munis are priced in the $50 to $70 range (peak rate). The privates are generally $80 to $125.

[games]

The smartest thing Arrowhead ever did was build that new clubhouse. I understand there was a lot of opposition, but it has turned into a cash cow.

 

Seriously, I remember playing there on a Saturday of US Open weekend, and the round taking 4:15-4:30.

I have never gone around a packed course as fast as we did that day. People really knew how to play.

I was impressed. (To the point where I stuck around the clubhouse to inspect each Two Brothers product on tap...)

[@_the_crook]

getgolfed,

 

don't know where you live or how much you play.

Sportsman's has 27 holes and a good range at one destination.

our course is busy. proshop does a good business. youth leagues and instruction as well.

we have one of the best instructors in Illinois. look up Michael Wenzel.

feel free to do your own research or ask players in northern Illinois.

our cafe is clean, has a good menu and I eat there every time we play.

locals support this place and we get a lot of patronage from Chicago residents.

the more the merrier.

 

Arrowhead in Wheaton is a 27 hole facility, and per their 2017 annual report, had just under 47,000 rounds. The two Naperhell courses averaged 36,500 rounds or 73,000 total. Sportsman's having nearly 40% more rounds is a bit tough to comprehend.

 

don't shoot the messenger fellas. I simply read the accountants report and shared the word.

63000 one year, 66000 another.

as Argonne pointed out, we have a nine minute tee time spread. very do-able.

 

curious, are the price points at the courses out west similar to ours?

 

Apologies...wasn't meant that way and appreciate you posting the facts as stated.

 

The Naper courses are 8 or 9 minute intervals and depending on the day/time/age, are probably $20 to $50. Wheaton is 9 minutes (I think) but their rate is probably $40 on the low and pushing $85 during prime time. All 3 courses are nicely profitable except for Naperbrook and the funky charges from the city. They make money but not as much.

 

no worries DP - your comments are always welcome.

until members offer comparisons, I really have no way of knowing how this course compares to others without visiting them.

TPC Northbrook does land office business. the staff and service are top notch. we're all on a first name basis.

rolling up predawn, range is ours, we bring breakfast to the morning crew before the cafe opens.

on weather delays - one of us runs to the local DD for a dozen for them.

 

with HPCC gone, the nearbys with similar price points are Sunset Valley, Chevy, Glenview Park, Glencoe, Mt Prospect.

I'll pass on the CC Forest Preserve stuff based on conditions and service.

else, Lake County for a larger selection and that's when we run up to Shepherd's.

 

with what you members have pointed out, this renovation is something to look forward to, albeit a one or two year move to another course until the work is completed.

we have time to plan and relocate ourselves; becoming regulars at another venue.

[VNutz]

The smartest thing Arrowhead ever did was build that new clubhouse. I understand there was a lot of opposition, but it has turned into a cash cow.

 

This is why I've never understood Village Links' decision to put all that money into renovating their restaurant, but not turn it into a banquet facility. The restaurant seems to be doing well there, but weddings would open up an entirely new revenue stream in an upscale market and great setting. Maybe it's the lack of parking there that did it in.

[DeeBee30]

Was gonna play TopGolf Naperville tomorrow morning to take advantage of their weekday promo, but it turns out they’re closed for a couple days of repairs. Seems the ice storm the other night brought down some of the netting that lines the “fairways”. Now we’re heading to Legends Indoor Golf in DG for a little sim work instead.

 

My buddy is heading to FL soon and will be tackling the Blue Monster, so maybe we’ll get him a simulated practice round.

[@_the_crook]

Are these really businesses, though? They're municipal owned recreational facilities. Do baseball fields, tennis courts, and swimming pools turn a profit? Very doubtful. I'm sure they don't want to lose millions a year, but the taxpayers are subsidizing these facilities to provide benefit to the community.

 

I'm curious how DuPage County managed to turn a profit. I'm guessing the renovation of the Preserve was not figured into the expenses, but shows up in another category in the county budget.

 

you make very good points.

we even have a Velodrome. catering to a very small segment but one heckuva draw if your child has involvement in cycling.

all for the greater good.

[@_the_crook]

wondering - any of you heading to the golf show at Rosemont ? this year it's the weekend of the 22nd -24th.

 

couple of us usually meet for breakfast either Saturday or Sunday morning and then wander thru for a couple hours.

be great to get together if you are attending.

[B-Man]

wondering - any of you heading to the golf show at Rosemont ? this year it's the weekend of the 22nd -24th.

 

couple of us usually meet for breakfast either Saturday or Sunday morning and then wander thru for a couple hours.

be great to get together if you are attending.

 

I'm planning/hoping to get there first thing Saturday to demo the new Mizuno drivers. Will update here once confirmed. Cheers, Rich.

[dhartmann34]

wondering - any of you heading to the golf show at Rosemont ? this year it's the weekend of the 22nd -24th.

 

couple of us usually meet for breakfast either Saturday or Sunday morning and then wander thru for a couple hours.

be great to get together if you are attending.

I may. Haven't decided yet.

[Argonne69]

The par 3 17th at Olivas Links, Ventura, CA. Wet. Very wet.

 

 

[@_the_crook]

The par 3 17th at Olivas Links, Ventura, CA. Wet. Very wet.

 

bet I could reach that trap.

lately my confidence is underwhelming.

hope you are having a great time.

[chisag]

 

 

 

... Wow, the drought really too it's toll. After playing blanched out courses in LA, Olivas Links was a beautiful green oasis in 2016. I was so used to the LA courses that the difference was amazingly. I hope the par 4/5's were green.

[Argonne69]

Mostly brown. They've received a lot of rain lately, but the recent drought has really taken its toll. I drove up the PCH through Malibu Beach, and one could see the aftermath of the recent fires and slides.