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side saddle putters - what putter are you using?


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Anchoring wasn't his problem; his problem was that he was using a non-conforming putter. That aside, I still have NO idea what he was doing with the grip he was using; he took the most natural arm movement there is, and made it unnatural by the way he was holding the club, and he had to use a non-conforming putter to make it work. It was bizarre, but he's a pretty bizarre guy.

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> @J-Tizzle said:   > Yep, I've said it several times, the hardest part of SS/FO putting is making sure you have thick skin. If you can make it 9 holes and roll in a few putts, they will quiet

Well, hell... I just ordered the BG Night and Day. I'm using all of the gas and restaurant money, plus what's left of my stimulus money, to finance the purchase. I also may not be completely forthco

How's it going mates? Just wanted to drop a line and introduce myself as I am one of the CEO's of Bomar Putting Company and have been rolling it face-on since I was 10, so a total of 22 years now haha

The F22 isn't "exponentially" better than the JuanPutt, but it's better. It's the best face on putter I've used, and I've got a pretty decent sample size in my hall closet. Those are the two best I've tried, with the F22 being a little bit better because it is SO stable and because of the insert. Just a great feeling putter no matter what style you are using.One GREAT thing about the JuanPutt is the putting track he sends with the putter; it is a GREAT training aid, and I still use that putter and the track for indoor practice from time to time, even though I use the F22 on the course.Honestly, you aren't going to have to worry much about off center hits putting face on; you just won't hit the ball on the heel or toe much. FOR ME, the only two issues that come up are occasionally hitting it "thin" when I have to hit an extremely long putt, and letting the face close a little bit on the thru swing. Both of those are ball position issues; I tend to get the ball too far forward.

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So I practiced again this morning changing grips to see what was most comfortable. I never even considered putting the putter at 90 degrees and using the pencil grip simply because the Juan Putt doesn’t quite sit right when you do that. I tried it for the heck of it and was automatic. Crazy. Even more reason to go F22 I believe. My second favorite grip is back of my hand facing the target. That’s really good except for left to right putts. I kept leaving it open for some reason.

Driver: Cobra Speedzone 9 degree with Fujikura Ventus 7X
3 wood: Cobra F9 with Fuji Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 19 with Fuji Atmos Tour Spec 9X
Irons: New Level 902 5-PW with DG X100, New Level NLU-01 driving iron Hzrdous Smoke 100 6.5
Wedges: New Level M type 50-55-60 
Putter: Taylormade Spider X Navy 35"
Ball: Snell MTBX / Srixon Z Star XV

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This is why I think so much of putting is just personal preference and doing what feels best. I have tried all kinds of grips and tend to come back to just a neutral lower hand grip. When using a bowling type grip I tended to shut the clubface and when using a grip with the back of the hand facing the hole I tend to open the face. It just tells me I tend to err toward a neutral grip. Think of the angle you hand sits when your arms rest at your side. From there you can try all types of variations of a pencil grip. I tend to have a few different ways I hold it and just go with what feels best that day.

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One of the real gurus of this is Randy Haag. You could do a LOT worse than just studying what he's doing for setup, grip, and ball position. He's played competitive golf at the highest level while putting face on for several decades now. Google his videos and watch everything that you can find.

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Interesting: I've never seen that before. There's no reason I can think of that it wouldn't work face on, and I'm a little surprised that they didn't mention that on the website.

I will say that the one rear shafted face on putter I've had, which is the original Bobby Grace face on model, I didn't like; it may have just been mental, but I FELT like there was a lot of torque because of all the mass ahead of the shaft.

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My BG F22 comes in this weekend and I’m so excited. I haven’t really tried the method of holding at 90 degrees with a pencil grip much but really practiced yesterday with my Juan Putt and, wow, this is amazing! I was draining them from all over the green up to 30 ft. Once I got the line I was rolling them in one after the other. Even had a group of guys on the 1st tee stop and watch me and I could hear murmurs to the sound of “wtf is that guy doing?” followed by “Wtf! I should try that!” I’m definitely getting looks but don’t care at all. They can continue to look and miss while I feel the most comfortable over a putt I ever have in my life. I’m so glad I found this thread!

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Driver: Cobra Speedzone 9 degree with Fujikura Ventus 7X
3 wood: Cobra F9 with Fuji Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 19 with Fuji Atmos Tour Spec 9X
Irons: New Level 902 5-PW with DG X100, New Level NLU-01 driving iron Hzrdous Smoke 100 6.5
Wedges: New Level M type 50-55-60 
Putter: Taylormade Spider X Navy 35"
Ball: Snell MTBX / Srixon Z Star XV

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Glad you are enjoying it! And no doubt, one of the things that you have to be ready for is the reaction of others to what you are doing.

I've written this many times on this thread, but I'll say it again: There is direct relationship between the index of the golfer and their likelihood of commenting on what you are doing. Really good players are interested and may ask you about it, but they understand. It's the guys who THINK they're good players who make the "WTF" comments, or ask if it's legal, or whatever. Really, I think they're sort of threatened by it on some level, because it might mean they are doing the wrong thing. Which they are...

The funny thing about that is that your chances of being in a foursome with everybody putting conventionally now, are just about nil. Whether it's left hand low, or the claw/saw, or a long putter, or whatever, a tremendous percentage of golfers are trying anything they can figure out how to take one hand or the other out of the equation. Except, of course, facing the hole and rolling the ball with one hand...

Have some stock replies ready even. If somebody asks you if it's legal, say "What? Putting with an open stance?" If they ask you why you putt that way, just turn the question around and ask them why they putt the way they do.

But again, good players will never ask that stuff, and at the end of the day, it's how few putts you can manage, and they know that. And they know a good roll on the ball when they see it.

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Dark, but enlightened!

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Driver: Cobra Speedzone 9 degree with Fujikura Ventus 7X
3 wood: Cobra F9 with Fuji Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 19 with Fuji Atmos Tour Spec 9X
Irons: New Level 902 5-PW with DG X100, New Level NLU-01 driving iron Hzrdous Smoke 100 6.5
Wedges: New Level M type 50-55-60 
Putter: Taylormade Spider X Navy 35"
Ball: Snell MTBX / Srixon Z Star XV

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Hey ya'll... honestly quite tired of my crappy putting statistics. Rounds where my ball striking is a little bit off, I can't make up for it on the greens and it's just infuriating. As it sits, I'm turning 68-69 into 72-73 and 72-73 into 76-78 cause I can't make anything past a 5 footer. The other day I bogied 3 out of my first 4 holes... then eagled my 5th to get back to 1 over... on 6,7,8 I had 3x 8-12 ft birdie putts and didn't come close on a single one... doubled 9 to shoot a +3 39... where if I had made ANYTHING I'm at worst even par.

Am really looking to give side saddle a try... used a broomstick for a while before the ban and it was a solid solution for me... but not being able to anchor it has killed me. My only concern with side saddle is the cost.

The GP is $239... and from what I've read from people on here it has serious flaws w. weight and alignment. $240 for a putter looks like it's manufactured with poor quality turns me off. I've watched a number of the guy's videos who sells em and he literally just repeats the same talking points over and over again which tells me he doesn't know much about his product, hardly enough to explain it in great detail. Watching the video w. Grant Waite he's literally telling a PGA Pro that "u just need to take it straight back and straight through"... like he doesn't know that... bleh. That said, this one has looked most promising to me so far for what I'm looking for... I guess I just need to load the think up with lead tape?

I'm also not sold on the Juan Putt which is even more expensive... the "Juan Putt's A Winner" jingle that accompanies the putter on YouTube just screams gimmick. It also doesn't seem to be even close to the most popular putter on this thread.

Consensus seems to be that the BG F-22 is the way to go... issue is... the ones I've looked at look like they're not even close to a vertical shaft angle out of the putter head. I've had broomsticks ranging from 47-49 inches and when I tried to side saddle them the angle of the shaft was always a big issue. What is your guy's solution on this front? Simply have a custom fitter re-drill a hole? I'm confused...

What's ya'll's best advice for a SS putter when you take cost and ergonomics into consideration?

Thanks.

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Hey ya'll pretty frustrated with turning good rounds into bad ones by not being able to hole anything. I used to be a scratch golfer with a broomstick in my hand, but conventional putting is costing me 4-5 strokes a round.

From what I've read here:

GP Putter: too light, have to load it with lead tape, alignment is an issue. Is this the best option when u do load it with tape?

Juan Putt: doesn't seem to be a favorite by anyone here... am I missing something or is that right?

BG F-22: seems to be a favorite of people here... how do you solve the issue of the shaft not being vertical coming out of the putter? Or are you guys simply referencing the $450 model that's wayyyy out of my price range?

STX: I'm not sure how to achieve a vertical shaft out of the head... and I know old models are being converted to SS... so how do you do it?

The price of these putters is also kind of crazy... no offense to GP or Juan... but they can't have the same manufacturing quality as the big boys who charge these prices.

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I'd say overall, my vote would go:

 

1 - F22: its the best one overall, you can adjust/fiddle with the weights pretty easily, the insert is top notch, and the product from the one "big" creator of side saddles. This honestly might feel the most natural to use at 90*, the tri sole is really excellent, plus the insert is insanely good.

2 - GP: I'd agree, you need to add weight to it in my opinion, its just too light without it, but once you add weight, its the closest to 1b on the list.

3 - Bomar Putting: this is the closest to the STX you'll find without the miserable insert. Its good, but I'd have about 3 things to add/change to this to make it number 2 (I'd make it about 50g heavier, I'd make it slightly bigger overall, and I'd change the grind on the toe side of the face as it seems to grab the grass when taking it back when holding it around 90*).

4 - Juan: this putter is very good as long as you have no intentions of using it close to 90*. Its face is just too wide to use it at 90* comfortably. But beyond that, its a very solid putter.

 

Those are just my opinions, I do have a LFI (Bobby Grace) and a LFI proto as well. I'd put the LFI proto after the GP but before the Bomar, and the LFI retail after the Bomar. The retail versions ass-kicker shaft is even with the face and it just aligns very oddly to me, the proto versions shaft is about 0.75" behind the face and it seems to make the world of difference. My perfect side saddle would honestly be the LFI retail head with the shaft set in it like the F22/proto where the shaft is behind the head and weigh it in around 450g.

G410 10.5* LST -  F9 14.5* - F6 17.5* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Glide Stealth 56* ( at 55*) and 60* - BG F22

https://Instagram/avgjoesgolf/
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With what I've said above, my plan this summer is to probably primarily game the F22 and the GP until I get hot with one of them, and I might do a little custom work on the Bomar to grind the toe side of the face down a little bit to where it doesn't stick in the grass.

G410 10.5* LST -  F9 14.5* - F6 17.5* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Glide Stealth 56* ( at 55*) and 60* - BG F22

https://Instagram/avgjoesgolf/
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Thanks for the response.

I'm leaning toward the GP because it's $200 cheaper + it has a 30-day money back guarantee... + I like the videos... show's it's a pretty simple concept and I like the visual of seeing how it works.

I've read most of your posts and it seemed like you were quite high on it... then you weren't... what is keeping you coming back to the GP if you have the F-22 and like it a lot?

Also what's your height and what length do you use?

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Hi, everybody : I found this thread in 2015 when it was less than 2 pages, just looked it up a week or so ago and now it's 38 ! So many excellent contributions - thank-you - to consider. 

My FF putting started in 2015 as a former 13 hcapper, by then 63 yrs old, who had watched his hcap slide up to 18.1 due to problems with a slipped lower disc. I worked with a great local physio and also checked out Brian Sparks' ideas to allow myself to swing more easily and with much less pain, but I no longer wanted to crouch over the ball when putting. I came across the videos of John Ambrose at Lateral Line and most unusually found a used L2 on eBay UK (I'm an expat Brit living in The Netherlands), which I bought.

I tried the L2 approach with great enthusiasm, but stopped after one year without consistent success : looking back, I would say that I made two key errors. Firstly, in my enthusiasm, I took this new method out onto the course far too soon and the near hysteria with which my playing partners greeted my putting style did not help (but they sure enjoyed their laughter !). Secondly, the L2 method includes looking at the hole, not the ball, & I feel that whilst I now do this for all putts (see below), I would not advise someone starting out to make two radical changes at the same time. So I returned to conventional putting for about a year until I saw one of Randy Haag's videos and found an "unknown belly putter" in perfect condition locally for €15... an STX ! This time I followed Randy's setup exactly & practised a great deal at home before going out onto the course. My playing partners eyeballs rolled yet again, but less laughter as more putts started to drop. I still had problems with lag putts, although not necessarily any more than side on. So this led me back to looking at the hole...

I'll make a bold statement : I think everyone should practise some of their putting, regardless of style, looking at the hole, even if they have no intention of ever doing so on the course. The book to read is "Essential Putting" by Alpenfels, Christina & Heath; probably out of print, I found my copy via Amazon. I have tried looking at the ball for really short putts and also for really, really long putts, when I need to hit the ball hard, but in fact I am now more comfortable looking at the hole for all distances. It has definitely very greatly improved my lag putting. For short putts, I look at the base of the flag pole or, if out, at the back of the hole.

These last 3 years, I have experimented with just about every setup possible and this what I have been doing the last year : standing behind the ball, I align the putter behind the ball, then without moving the putter, place my right foot with front of shoe level with the ball and then place my left foot in a very stable position to the left and slightly forward of my right foot. Yes, left foot forward : try it, I find it's much more stable : how do you release a bowling ball ? I stand very upright & stable, using a standard, long Ping B90 (I keep a slightly shorter B90 in the UK : I enjoy the difference when I'm over there, but usually prefer the longer one when I get back. I always think it's good to change putters, even if only for one round, from time to time). I still have two STX putters, long and medium, red and black inserts.

Btw, whilst I held the STX putter just about vertical, like Randy, the B90 is closer to it's natural 10 degree slant (for really short putts, I hold it near vertical). For what little it's worth, my opinion is that many of the FF putter designs could easily be banned by the PGA... if they were to be in "bad mood interpretation" mode...

Lastly, if someone wants to start FF putting without great expense, just pick up a Ping B90 - I paid $20 each for mine & there are plenty out there. Unlike some others, I find it a really forgiving putter.

So thanks again to all the regulars on this excellent thread and apologies for the length of this introductory post. I'm not a single figure hcap player like many here, but I sure love this wonderful game (& the courses just reopened here in The Netherlands yesterday : the national online booking system crashed approximately one minute after bookings opened, now calmed down a bit !).

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The biggest thing for me on the F22 is the size and weight. Its big and heavy and I do hit my foot with it on occasion, lol.

The GP is not, so I'm mostly just flipping back and forth to see which one works best on my new courses greens.

And I'm a wrx'er, I'm always flipping clubs.

G410 10.5* LST -  F9 14.5* - F6 17.5* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Glide Stealth 56* ( at 55*) and 60* - BG F22

https://Instagram/avgjoesgolf/
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Let me reassure you just a bit. The manufacturing quality of the GP and the JuanPutt is not an issue; both are well-made putters.

To me, the GP is very different from almost anything else discussed here because the head is so much smaller and lighter. There's a trade-off there because you can hold the GP completely vertically, which is great, but I found the head weight to be just too light. It was the first face on putter I used, simply because it was for sale at retail in the Duke Univ. pro shop, but I haven't taken it out on the course in years. I will say this about the video with Grant Waite and P.R. Dionne; one of the truly freeing moments of the process of learning to putt face on comes when you realize that you do NOT have to manipulate the stroke at all to get the ball started on line. It sounds simplistic I know, but thinking "straight back, straight thru" is actually about all there is to this.

I wouldn't let the videos determine much for me anyway. I've met P.R. Dionne and I've talked to Juan Elizondo on the phone a couple of times, and both are really good guys and really smart. But I think both are operating on something of a shoestring when compared to Scotty Cameron or Ping or any of the other OEM's of putters, so expecting the same production values on their videos probably isn't realistic.

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All of mine are in the 46" range (I'm 6'2"), but its truly a preference thing in my opinion. I'd order the longest one and then Tacki Mac grip off of eBay for $7 and that way its much easier to cut it down a little bit than extend it out. All my side saddles I've cut down to 43" and extended back out to 48" and somewhere in between, lol.

G410 10.5* LST -  F9 14.5* - F6 17.5* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Glide Stealth 56* ( at 55*) and 60* - BG F22

https://Instagram/avgjoesgolf/
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I would start at the 48" for sure. I think its just your comfort level. Would you rather bend down more and feel more control, or stand more upright and have it be a bit easier on the back.

Though my trials I've actually kind of started to like standing up more for whatever reason.

G410 10.5* LST -  F9 14.5* - F6 17.5* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Glide Stealth 56* ( at 55*) and 60* - BG F22

https://Instagram/avgjoesgolf/
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It's all a personal preference. I played a 46" putter the last 6 years and then this year for some reason have been more comfortable with a 48".

I don't think there's a huge difference in performance - it's just a matter of how bent over you want to be with your setup.

Perhaps as I'm getting older (I just turned 62) I'm finding I like a more upright stance.

I also think the more upright stance also helps me get a better roll on the ball because with my 46" putter I sometimes had my ball placement too far forward.

I'll have to see how it goes this summer.

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Check out EdTheClubMaker on eBay.

I got a fixed length 42" 2-Ball putter from him (as per his recomended length) then bought the exact same putter from him with an extendable shaft. His side saddle's are 80* lie angle so it is purpose built.

I felt 42" was too hunched over for my liking and have found 48" with the extendable to be perfect. The price is right at about $160 so you can experiment with Side Saddle then invest later once you have dialed in you preference.

https://www.ebay.com/str/edtheclubmaker/FACE-ON-PUTTERS/_i.html?_storecat=4247017012

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J_Tizzle, a question for you.

I took out the two front corner weights on my BG F22 today, as per your post from a couple of days ago, and I think I really liked it at that weight, so thanks!

That said, I'm curious; how did you decide to take out the two front corner weights instead of the two on the rear corners? Did you try it both ways? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks in advance.

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