side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[BigEx44]

I put the ball more forward on shorter putts where line is more important than speed. I move it back closer to my feet on longer putts where lag (distance) is more important than line.

[pacman16]

Anybody have a side saddle for sale?

[deman77]

I have bobby grace f22 a-kicker that needs new home. But it needs reshafting or an extension as I cut it to about 2ft messing around with my own face on method. I discovered I’m a heavy toe hang heel shafted blade guy. PM me if you want it.

[Guest]

I recently discovered Bomar Putting Company!! Family owned company ran by two playing professionals who have used the side saddle their whole lives! Most beautiful side-saddle putters I’ve ever personally seen! Check them out at www.bomarputting.com

[Guest]

Avid life long side saddler here!! I recently discovered Bomar Putting Company! Most beautiful and functional side saddle putter I’ve ever used!! May have to add it to your collection ?? www.bomarputting.com

[jldelta]

To belatedly add to bluedot & marmaduk’s excellent comments, if I start putting offline, I’ve noticed it’s invariably because I’m not following through along my intended line (whatever the putt’s length). So much so that I now remind myself of this before every round so it becomes automatic on the course (I’m holing more longer putts than ever).

[Guest]

I've had good luck lately having my eyes focused on a spot 6-12 inches in front of my ball (instead of the ball) and stroking the putter head to the spot. I tried looking at the hole for a bit but i felt unconfident that I would stroke the ball well but this seems like a good trade off in comparison and has worked out really well for me.

[brentflog]

I like this. I sometimes unfocus my eyes and just look through the ball and putter

[J_Tizzle]

I've got a few side saddles I'm going to get rid of to fund a backup F22. If anyone is looking I've got a FLI (cut down to basically be an arm lock, but can be extended back out to be a shorter side saddle), a Bomar BB10, and the 2ball style one off of eBay. I don't really want tot list it on the BST as this is the group that might actually be interested in buying it, so I thought I'd put it out here.

 

 

[Cape Cod 2020]

Having taken up putting side saddle 6 months ago, what is a crows foot grip?

[J_Tizzle]

37 minutes ago, Cape Cod 2020 said:

Having taken up putting side saddle 6 months ago, what is a crows foot grip?

I'm assuming its like when you have your index and middle fingers on the bottom hand  on both sides of the shaft?

[rexroh]

Thanks for the help everyone.   I think my major fault was looking up just prior to contact with the ball. 
I am having some success with saying either out loud or under my breath “back - hit - look”. This seem to make me concentrate on the actual contact with the ball and provide better results.  Still the odd stupid putt when I forget my routine.  I am now back to making some good putts. 

[BigEx44]

So Bluedot,

It's been a while now.

What's the final verdict on the new Bobby Grace putter?

Are you still gaming your F22?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

[marmaduk]

Does anyone have recommendations for a new split grip? I am looking to replace the stock Bobby Grace grip on my f22 as it has a silly logo and his name all over it. In fact Bobby Grace’s name is on the putter exactly 6 times! lol 

 

@JTizzle I remember you had a recommendation for a split grip.

 

Cheers, Jeff

 

 

[willplaysgolf]

I went down the rabbit hole (mainly this thread) on side saddle putting, and picked up an old Ping B90 on eBay to play around with. Using it got me wondering if anyone has considered taking a putter suitable for side saddle and cutting it down to, say, 26 inches and putting one handed with the same technique without the top hand?

[bluedot]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:45 AM, BigEx44 said:

So Bluedot,

It's been a while now.

What's the final verdict on the new Bobby Grace putter?

Are you still gaming your F22?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

 

You were dead on when we first discussed this; the F22 is still in my bag.  The new prototype (whatever it's called) is a good putter, but MUCH less solid and forgiving than the F22, and much less "friendly" to being closer to 90*.  I'm not sure why that would be, because the soles of the two putters appear to be identical, but it is.  The prototype does make a great practice putter on the mat because you have to be more precise, and because it fits the putting track that came with the JuanPutt.  But I just never got comfortable with it going live, especially on slower greens.

 

That is NOT a knock on that putter; really, it's more of a compliment to the F22.  I just got home from an interclub match; I one-putted four of the last 6 greens, all for par and all in the 4-5' range.  It's just a great putter; confidence inspiring.

[bluedot]

20 hours ago, willplaysgolf said:

I went down the rabbit hole (mainly this thread) on side saddle putting, and picked up an old Ping B90 on eBay to play around with. Using it got me wondering if anyone has considered taking a putter suitable for side saddle and cutting it down to, say, 26 inches and putting one handed with the same technique without the top hand?

 

26" would be awfully short for any method, and I think the top hand serves a purpose by being a fulcrum that keeps you from having to manage the backswing as much.  But it's an interesting idea.

[prouse25]

I bought a BG F22 a couple of years ago.  Had been struggling with the yips for about 5 years.  Messed around with the style on an off for a Summer - played a small handful of rounds.  Even with the yips, i am a relatively good player (index stays around 0 - averaging 31 putts per round based on GHIN data).  I have used the claw grip with a traditional stance / putter this entire Summer and have not thought about the yips since April.  I have putted well - very few 3 puts this year.  However, i am just not making putts - especially in the 10 to 15 foot range.  For whatever reason, i just can't putt aggressively with the claw method.  Balls usually just drip in to the cup.  Or more commonly, end up short.  

 

My home greens tend to be really fast 13+ on the stimp.  The claw does seem to really help with touch / down hill / big breaks.  

 

Since labor day, i have been practicing with the F22.  Greens have been much slower due to weather / lots of rain.  It seems like i am much more aggressive / making more in the mid-range with this style.  

 

A few questions for people that really excel with this method:

 

1.  Does the speed of a green dramatically impact your putting success?  Face on: Faster greens worse / slower greens better?  Or speed isn't an issue?

2.  Big breaking putts:  Is this just a practice issue or do you feel you can putt every bit as good face on?  Every video you see on-line with face on putting is a straight putt.  

3.  I understand if someone is almost debilitated due to the yips and something like face on is the only answer.  Any opinions on being a great putter with this style when you have an option to putt conventionally?

[willwagner]

15 hours ago, prouse25 said:

I bought a BG F22 a couple of years ago.  Had been struggling with the yips for about 5 years.  Messed around with the style on an off for a Summer - played a small handful of rounds.  Even with the yips, i am a relatively good player (index stays around 0 - averaging 31 putts per round based on GHIN data).  I have used the claw grip with a traditional stance / putter this entire Summer and have not thought about the yips since April.  I have putted well - very few 3 puts this year.  However, i am just not making putts - especially in the 10 to 15 foot range.  For whatever reason, i just can't putt aggressively with the claw method.  Balls usually just drip in to the cup.  Or more commonly, end up short.  

 

My home greens tend to be really fast 13+ on the stimp.  The claw does seem to really help with touch / down hill / big breaks.  

 

Since labor day, i have been practicing with the F22.  Greens have been much slower due to weather / lots of rain.  It seems like i am much more aggressive / making more in the mid-range with this style.  

 

A few questions for people that really excel with this method:

 

1.  Does the speed of a green dramatically impact your putting success?  Face on: Faster greens worse / slower greens better?  Or speed isn't an issue?

2.  Big breaking putts:  Is this just a practice issue or do you feel you can putt every bit as good face on?  Every video you see on-line with face on putting is a straight putt.  

3.  I understand if someone is almost debilitated due to the yips and something like face on is the only answer.  Any opinions on being a great putter with this style when you have an option to putt conventionally?

 

I wouldn't say i'm an expert but i've been doing face on for 7-8mos now.  I had problems with yips and more generally pulling/pushing putts especially those crucial inside 5' -10' which were hurting my score.  I don't have an F22 but I do have an older BG putter.

* I don't see the green speed really impacting Face  On vs traditional.  I would say for green speed and big breaks what I've found is that i hit my line much more consistently and it took some time to realize i needed to play more break because I was naturally pulling/pushing my putts subconsciously and I had to retrain a little to aim at the proper aimpoint.  i much prefer faster greens face on because there is a maximum arc that i have when putting with it.

* It has taken awhile to get longer distances right for me but I'm at a point now that I can confidently say I put just as well or better from outside 40' side saddle.  I still have issues with super long putts because I can't pull my putter back as far as a traditional style but those are very rare depending on the speed of the green.  I do end up opting to chipping with a 6 iron for super long putts from the fringe where a year ago I would have putted.  I play right handed and putt left handed (i'm left handed by nature) so switching between traditional and face on doesn't work for me.  If i did put face on right handed, i'd consider switching to traditional around 60' and longer.

* I don't know if it's the "only" cure to the yips but for me, I'm objectively better hitting it on the starting line i choose.  When I used to miss a 3' I'd yank it left or overcompensate and push it right and that has gone away and now with a stressful putt I just try loosen up and pull back/waggle the putter a couple times before i let it fly and it has helped a lot.

 

YMMV but when i first started down this path i practiced a crap ton on 4-5 footers in a circle and based on my sink/miss ratio it gave me confidence to commit to doing it for 6mos.  I basically told myself I'm going to commit 3 1 hrs sessions on the putting green over a week and do 50 putt drills  (10 putts around a 4' circle) and measure the results to compare the two styles.   If you are as anal as me, it's a good way to see if it works for you.

[prouse25]

27 minutes ago, willwagner said:

 

I wouldn't say i'm an expert but i've been doing face on for 7-8mos now.  I had problems with yips and more generally pulling/pushing putts especially those crucial inside 5' -10' which were hurting my score.  I don't have an F22 but I do have an older BG putter.

* I don't see the green speed really impacting Face  On vs traditional.  I would say for green speed and big breaks what I've found is that i hit my line much more consistently and it took some time to realize i needed to play more break because I was naturally pulling/pushing my putts subconsciously and I had to retrain a little to aim at the proper aimpoint.  i much prefer faster greens face on because there is a maximum arc that i have when putting with it.

* It has taken awhile to get longer distances right for me but I'm at a point now that I can confidently say I put just as well or better from outside 40' side saddle.  I still have issues with super long putts because I can't pull my putter back as far as a traditional style but those are very rare depending on the speed of the green.  I do end up opting to chipping with a 6 iron for super long putts from the fringe where a year ago I would have putted.  I play right handed and putt left handed (i'm left handed by nature) so switching between traditional and face on doesn't work for me.  If i did put face on right handed, i'd consider switching to traditional around 60' and longer.

* I don't know if it's the "only" cure to the yips but for me, I'm objectively better hitting it on the starting line i choose.  When I used to miss a 3' I'd yank it left or overcompensate and push it right and that has gone away and now with a stressful putt I just try loosen up and pull back/waggle the putter a couple times before i let it fly and it has helped a lot.

 

YMMV but when i first started down this path i practiced a crap ton on 4-5 footers in a circle and based on my sink/miss ratio it gave me confidence to commit to doing it for 6mos.  I basically told myself I'm going to commit 3 1 hrs sessions on the putting green over a week and do 50 putt drills  (10 putts around a 4' circle) and measure the results to compare the two styles.   If you are as anal as me, it's a good way to see if it works for you.

On the practice green, I can really get in a grove. Will make anything inside of 5 feet without thinking about it.
 

Played for the first time this morning using the FO method. Distance control was really good. Not even close to a three putt.   Alignment was a little iffy. I didn’t seem to be as precise on mid-range putts as I would have liked. When putting conventionally, my line is rarely an issue.  Seems the opposite with FO. 

[bluedot]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:04 PM, prouse25 said:

I bought a BG F22 a couple of years ago.  Had been struggling with the yips for about 5 years.  Messed around with the style on an off for a Summer - played a small handful of rounds.  Even with the yips, i am a relatively good player (index stays around 0 - averaging 31 putts per round based on GHIN data).  I have used the claw grip with a traditional stance / putter this entire Summer and have not thought about the yips since April.  I have putted well - very few 3 puts this year.  However, i am just not making putts - especially in the 10 to 15 foot range.  For whatever reason, i just can't putt aggressively with the claw method.  Balls usually just drip in to the cup.  Or more commonly, end up short.  

 

My home greens tend to be really fast 13+ on the stimp.  The claw does seem to really help with touch / down hill / big breaks.  

 

Since labor day, i have been practicing with the F22.  Greens have been much slower due to weather / lots of rain.  It seems like i am much more aggressive / making more in the mid-range with this style.  

 

A few questions for people that really excel with this method:

 

1.  Does the speed of a green dramatically impact your putting success?  Face on: Faster greens worse / slower greens better?  Or speed isn't an issue?

2.  Big breaking putts:  Is this just a practice issue or do you feel you can putt every bit as good face on?  Every video you see on-line with face on putting is a straight putt.  

3.  I understand if someone is almost debilitated due to the yips and something like face on is the only answer.  Any opinions on being a great putter with this style when you have an option to putt conventionally?

 

Ok, here goes...

 

1. Face on is FOR ME, far superior to conventional putting on extremely fast greens simply because it is far easier to hit the ball softly AND on line using one hand rather than trying to coordinate two hands in a delicate motion.  This is one of the greatest advantages of face on, IMO.  Average and slow greens are a wash; getting the speed right just doesn't have much to do with the method.

 

2. I also think "big breakers"  are easier face on for two reasons.  First, you are using binocular vision, so the line you've picked is easier to hit, and second simply because using one hand is easier to manage than using two hands, period. 

 

3. Being a "great putter" sort of depends on what you mean by the term.  I don't think face on will turn you or me or anybody else into somebody who is making a ton of 20 footers; Mark Broadie's work has shown that nobody in the world is doing that.  What face on WILL do, IMO, is reduce three putts by giving you better speed control on difficult approach putts AND by being much more reliable on short putts.  And the data shows pretty conclusively that good lag putting and rock-solid putting inside 4' or so is what "great" putting is really about.

 

And one question and one item you didn't ask:

 

1. There are two disadvantages to face on.  One is that it often isn't a very good "Texas wedge" option because there just isn't much loft on the putter, and the other is that on extremely long putts, say 50' or more.  Conventional putting is done from a position designed for power and speed and torque, which is ONLY helpful if you have to really hammer the ball with the putter.  That might happen once or twice a round, which is a good trade-off for the advantages of face on, at least for me, and not a huge problem as long as I remember to stay down and thru with the stroke.

 

2. At all costs, learn to separate in your mind what is and what is NOT about the putting method, as opposed to things that are just issues with putting in general.  Yesterday in a four ball tournament, I left a 12' birdie putt a couple of inches short dead in the heart, with my partner already in for par.  The putt was uphill and into the grain, and I just flat out didn't get it there.  That has NOTHING to do with the method I was using; it was a "me" problem.  Likewise, if you have a 30' downhill, down grain double breaker and you don't get it close, that is more about where you left the approach shot than HOW you hit that putt.  In other words, be careful not to turn every putt or every hole or round into a referendum on the face on method of putting.  If it's a better way to putt (which I believe) then it's a better way to putt, regardless of the outcome of any particular putt or hole or round.  It ain't a magic trick, and you'll hit good putts and bad putts, but on a macro level, it's just better.

[willwagner]

I know there are 41 pages of content on this topic but wondering if anyone had any new finds for putters in this category? Any cheaper alternatives to a new Bobby Grace $500 putter?  I'd like to find something fairly comparable as far as weight - tried the GP putter and it wasn't for me. 

[bluedot]

4 hours ago, willwagner said:

I know there are 41 pages of content on this topic but wondering if anyone had any new finds for putters in this category? Any cheaper alternatives to a new Bobby Grace $500 putter?  I'd like to find something fairly comparable as far as weight - tried the GP putter and it wasn't for me. 

The JuanPutt is very good.  Excellent alignment aids, great weight, and it comes with a putting trac and a DVD.  It's the second best I've used after the Bobby Grace, and I still use it for practice some because of the putting trac.

[PreppySlapCut]

On 10/1/2020 at 11:22 AM, willwagner said:

I know there are 41 pages of content on this topic but wondering if anyone had any new finds for putters in this category? Any cheaper alternatives to a new Bobby Grace $500 putter?  I'd like to find something fairly comparable as far as weight - tried the GP putter and it wasn't for me. 

There’s an element of getting what you pay for.  You can find good deals on used models, though.

[willwagner]

Yeah, for sure that quality isn't cheap. I'm not setting myself up for success in the used market by being a left handed side saddle putter either.

[rexroh]

I think any putter can be converted to a face on putter.  

First length is crucial.  Some are happy to bend over and use a 35 inch putter while others want to stand up and us 46 inches. Or anything in between.

Then there is weight.  I have found that face on putting for me requires a much heavier head.  

Also shaft angle.  If you want to hold the shaft upright then that can be another modification.

 

What I have done is I obtained several long (broomstick putters ) and a couple of belly putters.

I have then built some putters using long shafts and standard heads.  The heads have had lead added to them to be over 500 grams.  The shafts have been bent to be 79 degrees.  I have tried to lessen the loft but i am not sure how successful I have been there.   I consider all that I have done is legal.  I do not play competitive golf other than club scrambles.

 

If I had to I can still use a standard broomstick putter but my distance control with that putter is not as good as those I have modified.  I have retained one standard broomstick putter in case of rule changes.

 

Just remember lead and epoxy can be your friends.  I used double sided sticky tape in some models in production testing.   Overall a lot of fun and knowledge gained.   Also more consistent putting  in the end.

[harolease]

I was trying this with an old putter built for sternum putting.  Bend the lie as close to 70 degree   Is the stroke basically a SBST?   Feels like bowling.   Does anyone try to hook it a bit like bowling?

Edited October 10, 2020 by harolease

[rexroh]

If it is the old broomstick putter lie should be about 79 degrees.  This is good for holding putter vertical and moving the head straight back and through.   I would not try to put any hook on it.

Hit the putt straight.  

[bluedot]

3 hours ago, harolease said:

I was trying this with an old putter built for sternum putting.  Bend the lie as close to 70 degree   Is the stroke basically a SBST?   Feels like bowling.   Does anyone try to hook it a bit like bowling?

 

I think bowlers hook the ball because they don't want their ball to hit head on because they get the best pin action if they hit the 1-3 pocket, and that's harder to do straight on than with a hook.

 

Maybe a better way of thinking about face on putting is just rolling a ball across a green without a club; how would you do it?  Or, alternatively, shooting a free throw on a different plane, or throwing a dart. 

 

I don't think you have to think about SBST; you are set up in that position.  If trouble breaks out, it's probably because your top arm and hand moved.  Randy Haag considers having the top hand dead still and acting ONLY as a fulcrum as THE most important stroke fundamental of face on (as opposed to setup stuff), and I'm pretty sure he's right.

[Spuggy]

That's how Patrice (GP putter) teaches it, top hand is a fulcrum, sbst stroke, follow through to the hole. GP putter is designed to be held vertically, this requires a short head not more than 3.5 inches other wise you have to raise the putter too high to clear the ground, then you miss the sweet spot of the putter and the equator of the ball.