Mike Malaska - Getting the club in front of you. Made easy...

[MaybeImLeftHanded]

the "heel first" idea got me shanking the ball at the range. Thought I'd try it but don't think it's for me.

I don't mean to sound harsh but if you are shanking you are not doing it right.

 

No doubt.

[SplashShot]

I combined the hand position/steering wheel ideas of Malaska with the "no turn cast drill" of Monte during my indoor practices, and went out and snuck 9 holes in yesterday. Better on my first day this year than any of last year! I lost about a half a club of distance but I think that will come back as the swing grooves. If not I'm ok with that. My swing feels more effortless and balanced. I can play this swing well into old age.

[larssonlegend]

I combined the hand position/steering wheel ideas of Malaska with the "no turn cast drill" of Monte during my indoor practices, and went out and snuck 9 holes in yesterday. Better on my first day this year than any of last year! I lost about a half a club of distance but I think that will come back as the swing grooves. If not I'm ok with that. My swing feels more effortless and balanced. I can play this swing well into old age.

 

Coincidentally i did something similar. i have been trying a lot of monte's ideas from his driving video but last night also tried the club down and out feel Malaska talks about. I tried this on my swingspeed radar in my garden and saw numbers i had not reached before . 113mph pervious best 109 . 109 became my average with this . Malaska snapping the towel effect maybe. Went up to course late last night and hit it really well and long with driver . Hit some lovely irons also but miss was a hook as club down and around seems to promote this . So early days but promising.

[ChrisAU]

Im also curious to hear what the teaching pros have to say about this "feel". Here's another video with an explanation.

 

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKZjIl5f9Y[/media]

 

After watching this video and some others of Mike's I feel I finally, after 5 years (and two crappy college courses) of playing golf, have an idea of what is happening in a golf swing. Poured over these the last couple nights in the office and got some great results in the backyard this morning. Its not that I didn't swing well, I just didn't know what made me swing well and therefore when I messed up (frequently), I had no idea what went wrong. Now I have an idea of what the club, my arms, my shoulders, chest, and hips should be doing from the time I address the ball all the way through the strike. And he makes it so simple. I've simply been hacking away with no plan or idea of what I was doing, and its taken me 5 years to go from 120+ to the low nineties this spring. I have no doubt that I can now groove what is at least a repeatable swing that can then be adjusted based on what I need and start playing way better than I ever have.

 

This is the greatest thread in the history of forums IMO. While some may disagree fundamentally with Mike, he makes it so easy to lay a foundation. That's something I've never had.

[PuttCurseRepeat]

the "heel first" idea got me shanking the ball at the range. Thought I'd try it but don't think it's for me.

I don't necessarily disagree with the concept, but the golf swing is too long and moves too fast for me to think about "heel first". It encourages me to become too manipulative with my hands. I think this swing cue is targeted at the more advanced (than I) golfer.

 

It just so happens that the "heel first" concept has helped me in an unintended manner, and that's on the putting green. My consistent and prolific miss with the putter was a pull. With the thought of bringing the heel of the putter - along with the center of the club - to and through impact, it became almost impossible for me to shut the face and pull a putt.

[Nard_S]

Great thread!

 

Had 2 sessions trying this, the 1st short irons and 3 wood off the deck worked best. On the 2nd tried driver and got great results.

 

I keyed in on the intent at the transition of left forearm rotation, then it was all right elbow "chases the belly button".

 

With proper sequence and most important, soft forearms and hands, I laced some really hard hit drives.

 

I am a high hands at the top swinger, so MM method is a better fit for me than Monte's, which seems better suited if your neutral to flat on BS. I'm speculating on that but in any case, threads like this and Monte's, have been illuminating on a part of the swing that is rarely addressed.

[juliette91]

I love the conversation on this thread for many reasons. One that constantly surfaces is this idea of golf instruction in general and how there are just so many different ways to swing. Different pieces of MM's videos resonate with posters, some the whole enchilada and some just a small piece. Just another reminder that what works for you doesn't work for others, that there is hardly any universally accepted swing advice except impact position.

[Hilts1969]

Hitting those corners seems difficult, the first is okay but dropping the club back to it and then rotating is hard to time, just tried it with a lob wedge with plastic practice balls, the first one came off the club like a missile right out of the middle of the face, the second one shot off the toe and just missed the wife's head.

 

I have now sat down and look very sheepish

[jpbouffard]

I said basically the same thing in the Waldron thread, but my whole life trying to play good golf I've always struggled with the downswing. It always feels like I am fighting some huge force to get the club head back to the ball.

 

Sometimes I can get in a groove and hit it well for a while, but, as a 7 hcp, I don't hit it great and make a lot of bad strikes.

 

So I've always wondered whether this feeling was something everyone feels in the downswing, or whether it was a symptom of a problem.

 

This feeling of swinging with the club in front of you, where it seems to just move up and down, feels great. The club feels lighter and it does not feel like I'm having to push it or force it into impact as much. When I practice swing this way it feels easy. Hitting balls this way is even better.

 

I don't know if it's true, but it seems that it would make me more consistent, because if the club feels lighter, it's balanced, and if it's balanced, it should swing on a consistent arc more often...which should mean more consistent strikes, fewer errors.

 

The problem I run into is that it's fine doing this and hitting it at about 75%. I did it yesterday in a simulator. I was hitting a driver about 225-230. Normally, if I'm warmed up and swinging well, I get anywhere from 103-111 mph club head speed with my driver, giving me drives from about 250-280 in length depending on the launch, sweet spot hit, etc.

 

The more I try to speed up the swing and get to my normal 90-95% effort, the more I revert to the old method and lose the light feeling club, etc.

 

As nice as it feels to hit is square over and over and have a light, balanced swing, I'm not going to improve giving up 30-50 yards in driving distance.

 

So how do you get the speed back?

[DOSKI]

at jpbouffard

 

Keep grooving the corner and flat spot ("light balanced swing") feeling at 75%. That's actually a pretty high effort standard for a drill. Drills are for grooving moves and sensation. That's usually easier to do with less pressure. But YMMV. Anyway, the important thing is to groove that feel and center face contact. Center face contact is the prime goal in distance.

 

The next thing to add is the "opposing vector move". Malaska talks about this (briefly) in most of his full swing motion explanations. There is a slight extension move - pushing against the ground while directing hips slightly away and back - Monte calls it 'zipper away' - from the ball. This move is timed as the club "turns the corner" in the downswing and starts into impact. The magic of this move, is that it accomplishes so many other valuable goals at once. All without having to think much about them:

 

It keeps the hips back while leaving a massive amount of room for the arms to swing through.

It allows the arms to develop a lot of speed as they accelerate "around the corner"

It actually feels like the club is still accelerating as it goes through impact.

Never worry again about lag!! This alone got me five yards through tension reduction!

It gets your brain off the "early extend and smash swing style" method.

It stops goat humping, once and for all.

 

I feel the "pushing against the ground" in both feet, with an equal amounts of pressure, right on the big pad from big to little toe. Just as the club swings around the corner. The heels are still in contact with the ground as well, Your not jumping up on your toes. (Although that never bothered Bobby Jones or Bubba Watson!) Because it's not a jumping move, It's a continual push (that eventually straightens the left leg, post up!) in sync with the club swinging away from your center of mass and into, and past, the ball. Just match and balance the pressure created as the clubhead swings around you and down towards the ground. The pressure increases in the front foot as you move into and past impact. Pressure follows the club head.

 

This sensation is synced while feeling of the weight of the club head as it starts around the corner (second corner in Nichols theory, as club moves just before parallel to the ground and arcs towards impact). It's a very very powerful and eye opening sensation. A dramatic increase in speed and control for me. Of course, you've got to have the relaxed arms and wrist he talks about. And the proper arm action "left arm is a rotate-er"

 

With this move, I also get the sensation of the hips quietly supporting the arm swing and club speed. Rather than that weird "hip dragging the club" thing where I feel like I'm swinging at the ball with my torso, instead of with my arms and hands. Very nice feel. And surprisingly tension free.

[Nard_S]

I said basically the same thing in the Waldron thread, but my whole life trying to play good golf I've always struggled with the downswing. It always feels like I am fighting some huge force to get the club head back to the ball.

 

Sometimes I can get in a groove and hit it well for a while, but, as a 7 hcp, I don't hit it great and make a lot of bad strikes.

 

So I've always wondered whether this feeling was something everyone feels in the downswing, or whether it was a symptom of a problem.

 

This feeling of swinging with the club in front of you, where it seems to just move up and down, feels great. The club feels lighter and it does not feel like I'm having to push it or force it into impact as much. When I practice swing this way it feels easy. Hitting balls this way is even better.

 

I don't know if it's true, but it seems that it would make me more consistent, because if the club feels lighter, it's balanced, and if it's balanced, it should swing on a consistent arc more often...which should mean more consistent strikes, fewer errors.

 

The problem I run into is that it's fine doing this and hitting it at about 75%. I did it yesterday in a simulator. I was hitting a driver about 225-230. Normally, if I'm warmed up and swinging well, I get anywhere from 103-111 mph club head speed with my driver, giving me drives from about 250-280 in length depending on the launch, sweet spot hit, etc.

 

The more I try to speed up the swing and get to my normal 90-95% effort, the more I revert to the old method and lose the light feeling club, etc.

 

As nice as it feels to hit is square over and over and have a light, balanced swing, I'm not going to improve giving up 30-50 yards in driving distance.

 

So how do you get the speed back?

 

What worked for me was at the top of swing and with hip transition in process the first conscious move with the arms was rotate left forearm CCW, then after that let go and let gravity/momentum drop the club vertically. Letting go is the key, if you hang on to steer the "stand up", you will lose a ton of speed. From there it's all about chasing the belly button with right elbow. This is intent mind you, a feel. With this, I was hitting noticeably faster balls and yet effort was controlled.

[jpbouffard]

I practiced for a while tonight then walked two holes before meeting the wife for dinner.

 

I've been working on keeping the club in front of me on the backswing. To that, I added some of the Malaska stuff...mainly the hands going lower while the club goes out toward the ball.

 

I didn't mess with the hips and pushing away from the ball yet. One thing at a time.

 

Once I got the feel - it only took about 5 or 6 shots - I got great results. I was doing it slowly but actually was able to increase the speed without losing the effect. I wasn't at 90-95% yet, but was more than 75%

 

I had two pars, hitting both greens in regulation. The ball went right where I aimed with much less of a feeling of effort than before. The holes were an uphill par 4 that I hit with a driver and a pitching wedge, and then a downhill par 5 that I drove in the fairway, hit hybrid just short left, and pitched to about 2 feet.

 

I missed the putt.....because my putter was in the car and I putted with my wedge and sort of half whiffed it.

 

But the strikes were so solid and felt so effortless.

 

I hope this sticks. It definitely makes the downswing feel better and more natural.

[DOSKI]

... I added some of the Malaska stuff...mainly the hands going lower while the club goes out toward the ball.

... I didn't mess with the hips and pushing away from the ball yet. One thing at a time.

... Once I got the feel - it only took about 5 or 6 shots - I got great results. I was doing it slowly but actually was able to increase the speed without losing the effect. I wasn't at 90-95% yet, but was more than 75%.

... But the strikes were so solid and felt so effortless. I hope this sticks. It definitely makes the downswing feel better and more natural.

 

The hands don't actually "go lower". They do stay "inside" as the clubhead goes out to the ball.

Absolutely, "one thing at a time". Indeed, keep that focus for more than one practice, one round, or one day. Stay on it.

"More than 75%". Give yourself time to absorb the changes to your feel and technique. Enjoy the process.

 

Don't mistake speed for execution. While learning or training, speed can hide poor technique. There is a reason martial arts practice in slow motion. Just stay focused on the actual technique. Feel the momentum of the clubhead. Feel the left arm coming off the chest. Let clubhead weight and momentum handle the speed for you. It's where the "so effortless" comes from. You can always add intensity to a swing. It's harder to add the solid unconscious technique that makes intensity work.

 

THIS IS KEY: "actually was able to increase the speed without losing the effect." A terrific lesson. Useful speed comes from better technique.

[tyorke1]

After advice from Monte, I have been working on this sort of. trying to get shaft flatter thru impact. really good early results

[Redpro]

This works...Malaska has a very intuitive way of presenting his information. While most would scoff and say this would lead to OTT it is indeed the opposite. Eerily similar to bump, dump and turn IMO.

 

I have never hit the ball this well, ever....for a full on month...not a passing fancy.

 

I tried the motion this morning. Three shanks, then two wonderful shots. Then two shanks and one or two wonderful shots. I think what I like about the motion is its simplicity and the ability to self-correct. What was the difference between shanks and wonderful? I forgot to turn! Ha ha.

 

I could feel the effortless and weightless feeling on the club as gravity took over on the down motion.

[Redpro]

This works...Malaska has a very intuitive way of presenting his information. While most would scoff and say this would lead to OTT it is indeed the opposite. Eerily similar to bump, dump and turn IMO.

 

I have never hit the ball this well, ever....for a full on month...not a passing fancy.

 

I tried the motion this morning. Three shanks, then two wonderful shots. Then two shanks and one or two wonderful shots. I think what I like about the motion is its simplicity and the ability to self-correct. What was the difference between shanks and wonderful? I forgot to turn! Ha ha.

 

I could feel the effortless and weightless feeling on the club as gravity took over on the down motion.

 

What I meant was rotation, not turn. After 200 balls on the range I figured out that I needed rotation on the backswing AND rotation on the downswing and after impact. Rotation of my left forearm after impact automatically cleared my shoulders and hips. I hit another 100 balls with all of my clubs to confirm that this was correct for me.

[rtwhbw]

Check out Piete Blikslager on youtube. His channel has a lot of Mike Malaska stuff on it.

 

[tyorke1]

when I think I do it right , it;s is very accurate and huge distance but the feeling from the top is hands initiated and at time still want to pull with left. my buddy and I were same length now my three wd is the same as him. It works but is not automatic.

[Divot License]

Check out Piete Blikslager on youtube. His channel has a lot of Mike Malaska stuff on it.

 

 

Piete is the guy who does all the production work on Mike's videos. You can find uncut versions of the some of the lessons Mike gives on the channel.

[jdmccjm]

I've seen a couple requests on this thread that Monte chime in. I would be interested to hear his take on MM as well. I did stumble upon something that seems a little indicative of one thing he might say. Check this out at 8:54:

[RBImGuy]

 

 

 

Monte, Dan... Please tell me the swing works this way, because it makes a TON of of sense in my mind.

 

 

 

Mike explains that one needs to actually try to stand the shaft UP to start the downswing. In fact, if you watch most of his videos, it's about 1 of the only things he teaches so he must feel pretty strongly about this. And for those willing to discount it too quickly - I believe he worked with Jack at 1 time and currently works with a few LPGA players... Anyway this is the OPPOSITE of laying the club down and shallowing out (something everyone is fascinated with at the moment). Is this another "illusion" the golf swing plays on us?

 

Its also why to his instruction why ladies hit so short and lack accuracy.

[Grayback1973]

Keeping arms in front is an odd feeling for me because I am very comfortable having the club and arms way behind me.It just feels like like I'm going to swipe across the ball way from outside the line.Anybody else struggle with this feel?

[MonteScheinblum]

I completely understand what he's saying.

 

Just like the GG/DD backing up the pelvis move is to help the slider, this move helps people who drop the right shoulder and dump the shaft.

 

 

All this is is good instructors presenting correct movements and/or exaggerated feels in a different way.

 

 

It's just another way to get it done. I say right shoulder out, zipper away, etc.

 

If you're a toe hitter coming too far from the inside, this would work really well for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ferrispgm]

seems like this move also promotes the left elbow moving closer to the right as well.

[mfm22]

Monte hit it on the head - same concept different approach / terms / feelings - what ever it takes to make it yours

 

the " leaning " back from club head pulling down at the bottom- as MM demonstrated in his swinging bucket around body got me to "get it" and the

" Zipper" drill is [ i think } the same concept

 

makes total sense to counter balance the centripetal force [ or is it centrifugal ?] where as early extension is a compensation

 

I wish it was easier to appreciate the athletic nature of a good golf swing . Really tired of all the positions , mechanics & technical info [ I do understand much of it ]

Just too much analysis - be nice to make it more reactionary ... maybe just see target , hit target

 

I wonder how many pros just play & practice with little mechanics to think about ??

[Ghost of Snead]

 

 

 

Monte, Dan... Please tell me the swing works this way, because it makes a TON of of sense in my mind.

 

 

 

Mike explains that one needs to actually try to stand the shaft UP to start the downswing. In fact, if you watch most of his videos, it's about 1 of the only things he teaches so he must feel pretty strongly about this. And for those willing to discount it too quickly - I believe he worked with Jack at 1 time and currently works with a few LPGA players... Anyway this is the OPPOSITE of laying the club down and shallowing out (something everyone is fascinated with at the moment). Is this another "illusion" the golf swing plays on us?

 

Its also why to his instruction why ladies hit so short and lack accuracy.

 

#INSTABLOCK

[tyorke1]

I like it and serious distance gains just feels different. Feels like the club is outside in but the ball starts down the target line, less curving. Different feel for me

[Redpro]

Check out Piete Blikslager on youtube. His channel has a lot of Mike Malaska stuff on it.

 

 

Thank you! Yes, in some of the videos I've seen, he does emphasize that it's a feel and a drill to help keep the club in front. I personally like the simplicity of it.

[Divot License]

I found this old article by Mike on Golf Digest site which I think really helps to understand the feel Mike wants with the left hand through the downswing and also emphasis's the point that the left arm is a rotater and not a puller in the swing.

 

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/mike-malaska-pure-irons

[millerrh]

Read through this entire thread in about a week with several range sessions thinking about all of this. I have always been a handle dragger, yet leave my arms behind me as my body turns through. Flip at the last second to square the club face.

 

MM's tennis raquet/steering wheel concept was an ah-ha moment for me. I never previously rotated my left arm. Ever. Butt end of the club straight toward target, then flip.

 

This feel of rotating/supinating my left arm is all I need to get the "handle down, club head out" feel going on in my swing. This brings my hands in (instead of out where they were) and there is power through the ball. Penetrating ball flight I haven't seen before.

 

Monte's "how the arms work" and "zipper away" drills compliment this for me. Zipper away helps to fling the club head out to the ball using the club's momentum and how the arms work (particularly the left arm) is exactly the motion that causes this tumbling that MM calls handle down, club head out. Goat humping has also been an issue, so this all seems to be related for me. Very excited.