Korean Players with non-Korean caddies

[Titleist87]

Appears that most Korean players on the LPGA have non-Korean caddies. Is this to help with traveling throughout the US. I'm sure most probably speak English to some extent. Watching this week's tournament in Korea last night, several of the KLPGA players I am watching for the first time have non-Korean caddies.

[Soloman1]

I could tell you a couple of reasons, but they'd both be controversial.

[legitimategolf]

Thought that maybe it's kind of a status thing. Like if you're a Korean lady golf pro, you're not really big time until you've hired the Caucasian caddie.

[4waymiss]

Relax, more than anything ,it is just a great way to learn English for them.

[Soloman1]

No, that's not true.

1. Korean culture remains class oriented. There was still slavery into the mid 20th century. Korean men do not aspire to be caddies. There is a lot of family and peer pressure to aspire for more. If a man knows about, or plays golf, he comes from a class where carrying and cleaning clubs is for someone else. Except for...

2. when the player is a male friend or family member. Asian cultures are far more male centric. There is no other way to put it. Being a caddie would be demeaning while a western male thinks it cool and he's important.

[4waymiss]

It makes sense to have an experience LPGA caddie to show them the ropes of the tour life.

And for those who plans on moving to LPGA soon, like In Gee Chun, it is a good way to start to practice her English.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1445105484' post='12469598']
No, that's not true.

1. Korean culture remains class oriented. There was still slavery into the mid 20th century. Korean men do not aspire to be caddies. There is a lot of family and peer pressure to aspire for more. If a man knows about, or plays golf, he comes from a class where carrying and cleaning clubs is for someone else. Except for...

2. when the player is a male friend or family member. Asian cultures are far more male centric. There is no other way to put it. Being a caddie would be demeaning while a western male thinks it cool and he's important.
[/quote]You are the only one that replied with the male issue. A lot of LPGA caddies though are female. You would think a lot of Korean ladies that did not quite make it as players would caddie. Certainly happens fairly frequently on the pga tour and LPGA tour.

[MadGolfer76]

I would have thought because the caddy pool in the U.S. seems predominantly male. I guess that level of simplicity would be too controversial for GolfWRX'ers, however.

[Soloman1]

I wouldn't think that, Shilgy.

[Shilgy]

Ok, it would be interesting to know how many players on the men's and ladies tours use long time professional loopers and how many use friends, family, or new caddies that played. Thinking of guys like Spieth, Stricker , Reed, DeLaet on the men's tour. Can't think of which ones on the women's but watching them over the years here in Phoenix many have females caddying for them. From what I have seem there is a trend towards this on both tours over the last 10 years or so.

[creampuff]

No, that's not true.

 

1. Korean culture remains class oriented. There was still slavery into the mid 20th century. Korean men do not aspire to be caddies. There is a lot of family and peer pressure to aspire for more. If a man knows about, or plays golf, he comes from a class where carrying and cleaning clubs is for someone else. Except for...

 

2. when the player is a male friend or family member. Asian cultures are far more male centric. There is no other way to put it. Being a caddie would be demeaning while a western male thinks it cool and he's important.

 

Wow! I can't believe you actually take such a lopsided and narrow minded perspective.

"Korean men don't aspire to be caddies" - that's such a bigoted and sweeping statement if ever I heard of one.

"Asian cultures are far more male centric. There is no other way to put it. Being a caddie would be demeaning..." - That's so off the mark and laughable.

There are plenty of Korean and Japanese male caddies looping on the KLPGA and JLPGA, not to mention on the Asian Tour.

It's not about demeaning but about equal opportunity

 

I can only conclude you haven't travelled quite as much which probably accounts for such an insular mindset.

 

=====================

 

Reasons why non-Korean caddies are employed and relied upon imo:

 

For many Koreans, English is not the first language and having an English speaking caddy is very important.

Yeah one can get to practise English speaking with the caddy but the real reasons are very practical.

- Familiarity with the courses used by the LPGA (everything from reading the greens to course management), explanation of the rules, travel and accommodation arrangements, experience of ins and outs of living Stateside, assisting in sponsor's/tournament/tour obligations

- Many of the caddies have prior experience, carrying for other pro golfers or were ex-players themselves

 

There are plenty of good Korean caddies but not many have the exposure on matters Stateside and again, language can be an issue.

These Korean professional golfers need to get up and running to playing on the LPGA tour and like any employer/employee relationship, one often doesn't have the luxury of time among a limited pool of experienced caddies to select from who can fulfil the many requirements needed.

It's not about Koreans only, even China's Xi Yu Lin uses a ex-LPGA player as her caddie. Shanshan Feng as well.

 

If anything, more non-Koreans will want to carry the bag of a Korean player because there is every chance they will get a good pay check given how dominant Korean women golfers have become.

 

[Soloman1]

I've lived in Asia for 25 years. I guess I could say the same thing to you about making sweeping statements, right?

"...fulfill the many requirements needed." It's carrying a bag and wiping off clubs. It isn't rocket science.

There are plenty of rule books in Hangul. More players read greens themselves and only ask their caddy if they're in doubt about a read than players who rely on the caddy to read greens.

Course mangement? Do you think players listen to a caddy about course management, especially an ex player? That's like taking advice on the bar exam from a paralegel. If they were any good at it, they'd still be a player and not a caddy. You see any successful players carrying bags as their career winds down? In most cases caddies are confirming yardages. That's addition and subtraction, not Calculus.

What's the ratio of female to male caddies in your own Singapore?

I told you it would be controversial... There is no single reason. There are many reasons and each LPGA player has their own reasons why they don't have a Korean male caddy. To discount the cultural aspects of the question is wrapping the topic in a fantasy.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1445177814' post='12472244']
I've lived in Asia for 25 years. I guess I could say the same thing to you about making sweeping statements, right?

"...fulfill the many requirements needed." It's carrying a bag and wiping off clubs. It isn't rocket science.

There are plenty of rule books in Hangul. More players read greens themselves and only ask their caddy if they're in doubt about a read than players who rely on the caddy to read greens.

Course mangement? Do you think players listen to a caddy about course management, especially an ex player? That's like taking advice on the bar exam from a paralegel. If they were any good at it, they'd still be a player and not a caddy. You see any successful players carrying bags as their career winds down? In most cases caddies are confirming yardages. That's addition and subtraction, not Calculus.

What's the ratio of female to male caddies in your own Singapore?

I told you it would be controversial... There is no single reason. There are many reasons and each LPGA player has their own reasons why they don't have a Korean male caddy. To discount the cultural aspects of the question is wrapping the topic in a fantasy.
[/quote]Sorry to pile on but do you watch professional golf closely? The caddy does way more than the ole keep up and shut up. Course management, check. Green reading, check. You ever seen them line the player up? Psychology skills, check.

[Soloman1]

No. I know nothing about professional golf or golf at all.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1445185630' post='12472672']
No. I know nothing about professional golf or golf at all.
[/quote]I am just busting your chops. Evidently neither do I.

[creampuff]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1445177814' post='12472244']
Course mangement? Do you think players listen to a caddy about course management, especially an ex player? That's like taking advice on the bar exam from a paralegel. If they were any good at it, they'd still be a player and not a caddy. You see any successful players carrying bags as their career winds down? In most cases caddies are confirming yardages. That's addition and subtraction, not Calculus.[/quote]

I'm afraid you severely underestimate the contribution a good caddy can make, and we're not talking about reading yardages alone.
I can't help but be grateful to the many caddies at the many courses I've had the opportunity to play over the years. When I first had to play at several seaside links courses in England and Scotland, the good local caddies who have local knowledge and experience definitely made a huge difference in my scoring. It's been the same wherever I played in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, HK, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Australia, NZ, Germany, the US, Canada to name some of the countries I've travelled to and managed to squeeze in a round of golf. If it makes a big difference for an amateur like me, what more for the pros who play for a living.

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1445177814' post='12472244']What's the ratio of female to male caddies in your own Singapore?[/quote] - there's hardly any to speak off. Being a caddy requires a degree of physical dexterity. Most Asian women are petite in build and few if any would consider being a caddy for a pro golfer. But this topic has little to do with men vs women being caddies. There are no gender restrictions to being a caddy to my knowledge. But caddying being a physically demanding job, you'll find more men than women in it, just like many jobs involving physical labour like construction for example. If you've lived in Asia for that long then probably you'd know the answer to your question already.

[sjt4718]

A female could be a caddy but most women want or have kids. So life on the road for just ok pay is not realistic. As far as the Korean caddy issue goes I would personally opt for someone who speaks the native language,knows the courses etc. as opposed to hiring someone based on ethnicity.

[Soloman1]

I think there is a more important skill, trait or characteristic that pros look for in a caddy than what's been offered up so far. And that is that you have to be able to [i]tolerate[/i] being around someone for about 5 days a week. That's the first thing. The rest is gravy and can be learned.

We're talking about tour caddies here, creampuff. Wow, that sounds like something from a movie.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='sjt4718' timestamp='1445191533' post='12473022']
A female could be a caddy but most women want or have kids. So life on the road for just ok pay is not realistic. As far as the Korean caddy issue goes I would personally opt for someone who speaks the native language,knows the courses etc. as opposed to hiring someone based on ethnicity.
[/quote]There are quite a few female caddies on the lpga. Quite often could be because of Soloman1' point above. Gotta spend a lot of time together.