Wider Base Forged Blades - What's Out There?

[TimV]

As many of you know I have and regularly play a set of 85 Mizuno Cimarron Blades which I love. They are a broad based forged iron blade with good forgiveness and I understand they were marketed as game improvement clubs at the time. I am wondering what else is out there that may be similar? I have a modern set and want one more "vintage" blade set to play regularly along with my Mizzys. I may offer up my 69 Hogan Bounce Sole 1+ and 73-75 Wilson Dynapower Staff irons on the classified board as trade bait for a blade set similar to my Mizzys that would get more playing time.

This is what my Mizzys look like. I am looking for blades of a similar configuration. I would appreciate as much information as possible on what other makes/models would be similar. Thanks!

 

[Shallowface]

As many of you know I have and regularly play a set of 85 Mizuno Cimarron Blades which I love. They are a broad based forged iron blade with good forgiveness and I understand they were marketed as game improvement clubs at the time. I am wondering what else is out there that may be similar? I have a modern set and want one more "vintage" blade set to play regularly along with my Mizzys. I may offer up my 69 Hogan Bounce Sole 1+ and 73-75 Wilson Dynapower Staff irons on the classified board as trade bait for a blade set similar to my Mizzys that would get more playing time.

This is what my Mizzys look like. I am looking for blades of a similar configuration. I would appreciate as much information as possible on what other makes/models would be similar. Thanks!

 

 

Try an Ebay search for Wilson X-31. It was a line of wide soled forged blades offered from the mid 1960s through the mid 1980s. Most of them have a black Fluid Feel plug on the sole.

You'll also see a bunch of lower end cast clubs on which they used that name, but you'll be able to weed through those.

[birly-shirly]

Tim - you actually got a pretty good list from WCFranco on your other thread. X-31s as Shallowface says above, and Hogan Radials are probably the most obvious examples of that sort of club. If you search on here, you'll certainly find quite a bit on the Radials - there were 3 iterations I think, the last of which was cast rather than forged.

 

If you're willing to stretch a point, I'd also consider looking at the Hogan Apex Edge Pros, Apex Plus and FTX irons - very shallow cavities similar to the sand wedge you've got there. I've got the Apex Edge Pros and their soles are pretty broad.

[TimV]

Checked out some of the Wilson X31's on du bay. Can't afford the other stuff. Does it vary greatly by year? Hard to judge with the pics I'm seeing. One guy sent me a couple "toe on" pics of his X31's and they didn't look any where near as broad at the base as my Mizzys and the top line looked fatter as well.

[oldschoolrocker]

Be careful with the x31's. They vary greatly in ascetics and playability year by year, and where they were made. Some forged, a couple of locations and some cast. Hard to judge until you have them in hand. And Wilson, God bless their misguided souls can offer very little help these days if you are trying to do some due diligence detective work beforehand.

I have found the soles on the Top Flight Professional model to be less abrasive than the Wilsons of the same era.

Agree with checking in on the mentioned Hogans. Superb ballstriking tools.

[TimV]

What about the Hogan Apex II Cameos? Are they fairly broad based?

[birly-shirly]

Not really, in my opinion.

 

Great irons - but broad-soled only by comparison with something like an Apex PC or 1980 vintage Wilson Staff.

[Shallowface]

None of the Wilson X-31s from 1966 through 1984 were cast. The last model from 1981-84 was a remake of the originals.

 

Like any other long term model, they changed a bit through the years, so of course one would have to be careful to get what one wants when looking at any version of them.

 

It's been awhile since I've seen any of them in person, but I would suspect that the top line isn't razor thin as most Wilson irons weren't made that way. I always liked that slightly thicker look myself. Different strokes.

 

The X-31 label was reintroduced in 1988 on a cast club, and of course nothing made since with that label resembles the originals.

[Shallowface]

Be careful with the x31's. They vary greatly in ascetics and playability year by year, and where they were made. Some forged, a couple of locations and some cast. Hard to judge until you have them in hand. And Wilson, God bless their misguided souls can offer very little help these days if you are trying to do some due diligence detective work beforehand.

I have found the soles on the Top Flight Professional model to be less abrasive than the Wilsons of the same era.

Agree with checking in on the mentioned Hogans. Superb ballstriking tools.

 

Do you know if Wilson changed forging providers sometime in the late 70s/early 80s?

 

Because I can remember a number of us cornering a Wilson rep that visited our course in the early 80s so we could complain about the quality of the FG-17s. The chrome was prone to peeling, the score lines were inconsistently stamped, and the boring on the hosels was off and often times the ferrules didn't line up smoothly with them.

 

The rep blamed it on Wilson's ownership at the time, which was Pepsico, and made the comment that they considered stamping out golf clubs no different what their Frito-Lay division did stamping out potato chips.

 

The 84-85 Fluid Feel Tour Blades had many of those issues as well, but after Wilson sold the company around the end of 1985 the quality picked up again. Their products of today are as good as any on the market in my opinion, with outstanding fit and finish. But I have to believe that period hurt them as they certainly aren't what they were in the 60s and 70s. History is full of companies who traded on their good name while turning out lower quality product than they had in the past, and it was very common the the late 70s. Jimmy Carter called it "malaise."

 

Most of the FG-17s and the like I see today look to have been well made. As with any older manufactured product, the strongest survive.

[TimV]

Just look at the American Auto Industry during that time period. Crap.

[oldschoolrocker]

Shallow,

I can't say for certain, but I believe some were forged at a location in the UK. I may be off my rocker, but that rings a bell.

Agree that the quality of the late 80's Fluid Feels were much better than the mid 80's.

[nbg352]

Sorry for thread jacking....I had a set of X31's in the '70's and I loved them. Enough so that I'm looking for some, but I'm not sure when they were made. What made them different is that, while forged, they had a cavity that diminished in size from the longer to the 7 iron and then became a classic looking blade from 8 iron down to pitching wedge. I've searched and while I can find lots of X31's, I cannot seem to find these ones. Any of you guys know the clubs I'm talking about?

[Shallowface]

Shallow,

I can't say for certain, but I believe some were forged at a location in the UK. I may be off my rocker, but that rings a bell.

Agree that the quality of the late 80's Fluid Feels were much better than the mid 80's.

 

No, you're not off your rocker, rocker.

 

I remember back around 1977 or 1978 an off course shop I used to frequent got a shipment of the 1976 Wilson Staff irons and all of the boxes (may have been the shaft bands) had a label that said "Made in Scotland." Around the same time there was one of those shops that used to run a monthly ad in Golf Digest offering the same thing.

 

I never saw (personally or ads) any X-31s with that label, but it's certainly possible some of those made their way into the US as well.

[rex235]

Tim-

 

1) Wilson Staff X31s 1969-1972.

 

2) 1979 Spalding Top Flite

 

3) 1967 Walter Hagen Haig Ultra Contour Sole

[forgedforever]

I never owned a set but the X31s of the late 60s into early 70s were stunning in appearance!

[Kirasdad]

Radials are really good clubs IMO. They are very similar to the Mizunos pictured. Careful shopping can get you a pretty nice set on the bay for 50 bucks. The look isn't for everyone, as a matter of fact, I didn't care for the look myself, but played very well with a set three seasons ago. They work.

[Shallowface]

Sorry for thread jacking....I had a set of X31's in the '70's and I loved them. Enough so that I'm looking for some, but I'm not sure when they were made. What made them different is that, while forged, they had a cavity that diminished in size from the longer to the 7 iron and then became a classic looking blade from 8 iron down to pitching wedge. I've searched and while I can find lots of X31's, I cannot seem to find these ones. Any of you guys know the clubs I'm talking about?

 

These?

 

 

 

 

 

Must have been a bear to make these at that time because they only made them for one year, which would account for their rarity.

 

I always chuckle when people refer to the Hogan Edge as the first cavity back forging as the X-31 Plus predated the Edge by about fifteen years. And of course Karsten milled cavities into forgings years before the X-31 Plus.

[Swingingk]

Tim - you actually got a pretty good list from WCFranco on your other thread. X-31s as Shallowface says above, and Hogan Radials are probably the most obvious examples of that sort of club. If you search on here, you'll certainly find quite a bit on the Radials - there were 3 iterations I think, the last of which was cast rather than forged.

 

If you're willing to stretch a point, I'd also consider looking at the Hogan Apex Edge Pros, Apex Plus and FTX irons - very shallow cavities similar to the sand wedge you've got there. I've got the Apex Edge Pros and their soles are pretty broad.

 

I'll second this and say Hogan Radials. I bought a full set with woods for practically nothing on a local buy-n-sell website. They played so nice they kicked my regular irons out of the bag for a while. I'm a blades player so the look from address was a bit different for me but they worked very well. That sole bounces off of anything! ☺

[pls123]

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/Wilson-Staff-tour-blades-RH-/291675263740?nav=SEARCH

 

Are these what you are looking for?

[nbg352]

Sorry for thread jacking....I had a set of X31's in the '70's and I loved them. Enough so that I'm looking for some, but I'm not sure when they were made. What made them different is that, while forged, they had a cavity that diminished in size from the longer to the 7 iron and then became a classic looking blade from 8 iron down to pitching wedge. I've searched and while I can find lots of X31's, I cannot seem to find these ones. Any of you guys know the clubs I'm talking about?

 

These?

 

 

 

 

 

Must have been a bear to make these at that time because they only made them for one year, which would account for their rarity.

 

I always chuckle when people refer to the Hogan Edge as the first cavity back forging as the X-31 Plus predated the Edge by about fifteen years. And of course Karsten milled cavities into forgings years before the X-31 Plus.

Yes! That's them! !976? Seems like the right time period.....though I'm never sure any more.....

Thank you so much. Now all I have to do is find them!

[TimV]

http://m.ebay.ca/itm...3740?nav=SEARCH

 

Are these what you are looking for?

 

Yes, I'll keep an eye on those. Thanks!

[teevons]

Dont forget Browning and Lynx for wide soles

[Hot Rod 71]

I think what someone referred to as "feel plugs" on the soles is a bore-through shaft plug.

[Shallowface]

Dont forget Browning and Lynx for wide soles

 

None of those are forged.

 

Which wouldn't matter to me but that's what the OP requested.

[Shallowface]

I think what someone referred to as "feel plugs" on the soles is a bore-through shaft plug.

 

"Fluid Feel plug" is a commonly used term when referring to Wilson irons.

 

The hosels are drilled through, but the shaft doesn't extend all the way to the sole as it did with Callaway irons.

[Shallowface]

From a 1985 Mizuno brochure. Pretty strong lofts for that day.

 

 

[Shallowface]

As many of you know I have and regularly play a set of 85 Mizuno Cimarron Blades which I love. They are a broad based forged iron blade with good forgiveness and I understand they were marketed as game improvement clubs at the time. I am wondering what else is out there that may be similar? I have a modern set and want one more "vintage" blade set to play regularly along with my Mizzys. I may offer up my 69 Hogan Bounce Sole 1+ and 73-75 Wilson Dynapower Staff irons on the classified board as trade bait for a blade set similar to my Mizzys that would get more playing time.

This is what my Mizzys look like. I am looking for blades of a similar configuration. I would appreciate as much information as possible on what other makes/models would be similar. Thanks!

 

 

After looking at that brochure I'm not sure you're going to find anything better than the Cimarrons. Great design and close to the modern lofts of today. Those woods are pretty slick, too.

[TimV]

"After looking at that brochure I'm not sure you're going to find anything better than the Cimarrons. Great design and close to the modern lofts of today. Those woods are pretty slick, too."

 

​I don't disagree. They are awesome! Just looking for something different to play occasionally is all.

[bobbydazzlewazzler]

 

I've got a set of these X31's from 81 in my club room waiting to get re-gripped with something sticky and used in anger..

[dmarch]

Didn't Sounder have an iron with a wide sole?