Biggest difference between PGA pro and a +6

[blehnhard]

BrianL99 - Yes there were 8 fully exempt spots and 8 "conditional spots" . I had to do Regional (I think there were 5 or 6 back in late 92) qualifying - about 120 players for about 15 spots. Finals had a field of 108 (regional qualifiers + those exempt from regionals) for the 8 full spots and the 8 conditional.

 

I was exempt into finals in late 93 for the 94 season (58th on the money list) and top 75 were exempt. I did both regional and final qualifying for years 95,96,97, & 98. Always made it to finals. Only missed 1 cut at finals. Finished 13th for the 98 season which got me in 17 events that year. Missed out for the 99 season (finals at Grenlefe West) - was in 7th going into last round - smooth 75 to finish about 20th - packed it in after that.

 

Bruce

[BrianL99]

BrianL99 - Yes there were 8 fully exempt spots and 8 "conditional spots" . I had to do Regional (I think there were 5 or 6 back in late 92) qualifying - about 120 players for about 15 spots. Finals had a field of 108 (regional qualifiers + those exempt from regionals) for the 8 full spots and the 8 conditional.

 

I was exempt into finals in late 93 for the 94 season (58th on the money list) and top 75 were exempt. I did both regional and final qualifying for years 95,96,97, & 98. Always made it to finals. Only missed 1 cut at finals. Finished 13th for the 98 season which got me in 17 events that year. Missed out for the 99 season (finals at Grenlefe West) - was in 7th going into last round - smooth 75 to finish about 20th - packed it in after that.

 

Bruce

 

I know how tough it was to qualify for the Sr. Tour. As I said, I had a couple of friends that went through that grind. It was really a closed shop ... it may still be?

 

Congratulations! Getting out there on that Tour was nearly impossible and as you know, even more impossible to maintain status.

[iteachgolf]

These sorts of threads seem to come up at least once a week on this site. In my opinion, they all start with a flawed premise:

 

"Why isn't this super low handicapper on the Tour" or "How good do I have to be to make it on Tour, I'm a 2 now".

 

"Handicap" has little or nothing to do, with making it on Tour, from what I've seen. Handicaps are for amateurs. They are derived from a formula that means nothing if you're playing for money. There's "averaging". There is the "best 10 out of 20". It's just not like that, playing on Tour. As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

It's not about your average score, 10 out of the last 20 times you play golf. It's not even about shooting 64 once or twice month.

 

It's mostly about shooting 68-69 every day, under any kind of conditions, when you have a cold, on courses that are tougher than most any amateur can imagine ... that and some good luck and fortuitous breaks.

 

Ask most any +2, when's the last time they shot 69, 4 days in a row, under tournament conditions. Probably not that often.

 

I know 2 guys who are similar to Bruce, in that they never played the PGA Tour, but qualified the hard way, at Sr. Tour School. For a variety of reasons, they didn't make it on the PGA Tour, but got their game together when they were grown up. Tough way to do it, as the Champion's Tour is about the hardest Tour to qualify for. How many guys qualified at your Qualifying School Bruce? 8 ?

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. The 100th ranked player averages 71.6 and the current 252nd ranked college golfer in D1 (Isaiha Salinda) averages 72.78. There are 37 players who average 72 or lower in D2 golf. Heck there are 18 players that average 72 or better in NAIA college golf and 30 players who do so in Junior college golf. There are around 350 kids playing college golf who average 72 or lower and are doing so on courses with ratings averaging a good bit over 72. There are a bunch of +4s in college golf and 1 handicap doesn't stand a chance at playing for a decent D1 golf team.

[Juan73]

How tough is it? How good to you have to be? I always remember Mark Long, who caddied on the PGA Tour (IIRC), said in an interview.... "If you can remember the number of times you shot 65 or less on really tough courses.... you will not make it!!" You have to be able to do it so many times that it does not register for you to remember.

[landolakes]

A good +6 who isn't a PGA player probably doesn't really want to be one.

 

A couple thousand mini tour players, Web.com guys, Challenge Tour, Asian Tour, could go on and on would all disagree with you. Many are grinding their butts off, racking up massive debt, and are never home chasing the dream. Desire isn't the issue

I meant no disrespect with that post. But I stand by it. I played hockey with a lot of guys who were definitely good enough to make it to the NHL. Like the +6, they were all missing an ingredient. Often they knew what the ingredient was....heart, killer instinct, whatever....but chose not to develop that inner part that was keeping them from what they thought they wanted more than anything. In the end, someone with good enough game to make the bigs but doesn't, really doesn't want to be there. For some, as an example, developing killer instinct is not inherent in their personality and it never will be because in their heart of hearts they don't want it as a part of their makeup. In the end, it is that choice that keeps them from moving forward.

I realize that this is my opinion, but it is one based on much experience, including my very own.

 

And I'd argue being a +6 in and of itself isn't good enough. There are thousands of +6 level golfers and only 156 guys on the PGA Tour playing each week. A +6 is the bare minimum to have success on the Swingthought Tour (formerly Hooters/NGA), Canadian Tour and PGALA. Playing to a +6 a lot of weeks on the Web.Com tour will miss the cut. A handicap is only based on your best 50% of your round. In professional golf the 50% that aren't counted are more often than not more important than the ones that are. A players anti cap is as important or even more so to his success than what his handicap would be.

 

Your hockey analogy simply doesn't hold any water. It's not even close. The NHL allows 23 active players per team and 50 players under contract per team. That is 690 active players and 1500 players that are under NHL contracts. There are 60 NCAA Division 1 college hockey teams and almost half of those are DII or DIII schools "playing up". There are currently 1,172 D1 college hockey players.

 

Lets compare that to D1 college golf. There are 299 mens D1 college golf programs. Thats 5x as many golf programs as hockey programs. There are almost 3x as many college golfers as college hockey players yet the odds of a high school golfer playing college golf is about HALF the odds of a high school hockey player playing college golf. So the number of high school golfers in the US (152,647) dwarfs the number of high school hockey players (35,393) making the odds of making it to college golf let alone the PGA Tour is way lower. So you have 5x as many guys going after 10% of the available spots teams have in the NHL. The odds of making it on the PGA tour is literally 50x worse than making it in the NHL.

 

Golf has the worst ratio of highly skilled athletes vs available number of spots in all of professional sports.

 

I don't want to disagree with the example of how difficult it is to get to the PGA tour, but re: the hockey stats, only 10% of NHL players actually come from the U.S. colleges. The primary supplier of talent is still Canadian major junior hockey (OHL, WCHL, and the QMJHL). Then you need to add in the Russians, Czechs, Finns, Swedes, and Germans, plus a few outliers. When you consider that, the odds of a kid from an NCAA program making it all the way to the NHL gets a lot closer to the golf numbers. Great topic...great comments!

 

For the record--30% of nhl players have played college hockey ... Also the fact that some d1 hockey schools are playing up has no bearing on anything. One other factor is the nhl draft can limit opportunities, where in golf everyone is essentially a free agent .... Just sayin

[iteachgolf]

I don't think most truly understand how good college golfers are.

 

 

http://www.golfstat.com/schedule/global_tournament_results.cfm?tid=32846

 

75% of the field shot below the course rating here. For handicap purposes only half their rounds would count.

 

Another good example of scores on a course with a rating above 72 and winner shot more than 20 shots below the course rating.

 

http://www.golfstat.com/schedule/global_tournament_results.cfm?tid=32850

 

Rating here was 73.4 and winner shot more than 20 shots below the course rating here as well

 

http://www.golfstat.com/schedule/global_tournament_results.cfm?tid=32801

 

 

 

[thekru]

These sorts of threads seem to come up at least once a week on this site. In my opinion, they all start with a flawed premise:

 

"Why isn't this super low handicapper on the Tour" or "How good do I have to be to make it on Tour, I'm a 2 now".

 

"Handicap" has little or nothing to do, with making it on Tour, from what I've seen. Handicaps are for amateurs. They are derived from a formula that means nothing if you're playing for money. There's "averaging". There is the "best 10 out of 20". It's just not like that, playing on Tour. As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

It's not about your average score, 10 out of the last 20 times you play golf. It's not even about shooting 64 once or twice month.

 

It's mostly about shooting 68-69 every day, under any kind of conditions, when you have a cold, on courses that are tougher than most any amateur can imagine ... that and some good luck and fortuitous breaks.

 

Ask most any +2, when's the last time they shot 69, 4 days in a row, under tournament conditions. Probably not that often.

 

I know 2 guys who are similar to Bruce, in that they never played the PGA Tour, but qualified the hard way, at Sr. Tour School. For a variety of reasons, they didn't make it on the PGA Tour, but got their game together when they were grown up. Tough way to do it, as the Champion's Tour is about the hardest Tour to qualify for. How many guys qualified at your Qualifying School Bruce? 8 ?

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. The 100th ranked player averages 71.6 and the current 252nd ranked college golfer in D1 (Isaiha Salinda) averages 72.78. There are 37 players who average 72 or lower in D2 golf. Heck there are 18 players that average 72 or better in NAIA college golf and 30 players who do so in Junior college golf. There are around 350 kids playing college golf who average 72 or lower and are doing so on courses with ratings averaging a good bit over 72. There are a bunch of +4s in college golf and 1 handicap doesn't stand a chance at playing for a decent D1 golf team.

 

Where did he say 'big time'?

[BrianL99]

As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. ..

 

Where did he say 'big time'?

 

Please don't try to confuse ITeachGolf with facts. Unfortunately, now we'll be subjected to 15 posts in the next 2 hours, with ITeachGolf and probably one of his friends like Pinhigh27, manipulating statistics to prove Dan is right.

 

If you hadn't quoted him, I wouldn't have had to read what he typed. He's high on my Ignore List, so his posts don't show up on my feed.

 

Thanks for the support, it's nice that someone can read and comprehend.

[iteachgolf]

These sorts of threads seem to come up at least once a week on this site. In my opinion, they all start with a flawed premise:

 

"Why isn't this super low handicapper on the Tour" or "How good do I have to be to make it on Tour, I'm a 2 now".

 

"Handicap" has little or nothing to do, with making it on Tour, from what I've seen. Handicaps are for amateurs. They are derived from a formula that means nothing if you're playing for money. There's "averaging". There is the "best 10 out of 20". It's just not like that, playing on Tour. As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

It's not about your average score, 10 out of the last 20 times you play golf. It's not even about shooting 64 once or twice month.

 

It's mostly about shooting 68-69 every day, under any kind of conditions, when you have a cold, on courses that are tougher than most any amateur can imagine ... that and some good luck and fortuitous breaks.

 

Ask most any +2, when's the last time they shot 69, 4 days in a row, under tournament conditions. Probably not that often.

 

I know 2 guys who are similar to Bruce, in that they never played the PGA Tour, but qualified the hard way, at Sr. Tour School. For a variety of reasons, they didn't make it on the PGA Tour, but got their game together when they were grown up. Tough way to do it, as the Champion's Tour is about the hardest Tour to qualify for. How many guys qualified at your Qualifying School Bruce? 8 ?

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. The 100th ranked player averages 71.6 and the current 252nd ranked college golfer in D1 (Isaiha Salinda) averages 72.78. There are 37 players who average 72 or lower in D2 golf. Heck there are 18 players that average 72 or better in NAIA college golf and 30 players who do so in Junior college golf. There are around 350 kids playing college golf who average 72 or lower and are doing so on courses with ratings averaging a good bit over 72. There are a bunch of +4s in college golf and 1 handicap doesn't stand a chance at playing for a decent D1 golf team.

 

Where did he say 'big time'?

 

Big time as in a school that actually tries to compete in golf, so a top 75 school. Or let say a top 400 ranked player. I'm not talking about a top 10 program or top 10 players. For instance James Madison University's 5th best player averages 73. That's a tournament average. I'm sure there are kids around a 1 handicap at schools that are outside the top 120 schools in the country.

[pinhigh27]

he said there aren't many college players at +4. the best ones would be multiple shots better than +4. there are tons at +4. have you seen the courses these kids play? they're the hardest courses in the country in harder conditions than the pga tour will ever see.

 

huge difference between playing a course in the summer when its nice, vs the college golf seasons which have junk weather. go play a 7000 yard course in 40 degrees and rain, then play it again in the same day. tell me how your scores do.

 

you have to factor in the weather for college golf and that a lot of rounds are back to back. which show even more how good the kids are.

[knock it close]

I got two buddies that play D1 at top 4 schools ones a +2.7 with only top level am events in there and the other is listed at +1.7 but he hasn't put in a score since he was like 14 lol.

 

Actually just remembered I got another buddy at the same school as the second guy and he's probably the #6, his scoring average is 74.09 over 18 rounds, with a low of 66.

[iteachgolf]

As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. ..

 

Where did he say 'big time'?

 

Please don't try to confuse ITeachGolf with facts. If you hadn't quoted him, I wouldn't have had to read what he typed. He's high on my Ignore List, so his posts don't show up on my feed.

 

Thanks for the support, it's nice that someone can read and comprehend.

 

What facts am I confused on? The fact that you said there are hardy any +4s in college golf when there are literally hundreds that would be in that handicap range who have tournament averages that are 72 or better. Or where I posted multiple events where the leaders are shooting 20+ strokes under the course rating and averaging the course rating (tournament + handicap) gets you a finish in the bottom 25% of the field. Yep those darn facts.

[pinhigh27]

oh and brian those kids have to putt out everything, not just the 5 footers, the 1 footers ;)

[Ghost of Snead]

he said there aren't many college players at +4. the best ones would be multiple shots better than +4. there are tons at +4. have you seen the courses these kids play? they're the hardest courses in the country in harder conditions than the pga tour will ever see.

 

huge difference between playing a course in the summer when its nice, vs the college golf seasons which have junk weather. go play a 7000 yard course in 40 degrees and rain, then play it again in the same day. tell me how your scores do.

 

you have to factor in the weather for college golf and that a lot of rounds are back to back. which show even more how good the kids are.

 

And they carry their own bags ...

[Darth_Blader]

As a couple of guys have mentioned, there are plenty of D1 players who are playing at 1 or Scratch and very few playing at +4 ... yet we watched Spieth walk off his college campus and start winning almost immediately on Tour.

 

 

Sorry but there are absolutely zero kids playing big time D1 golf that are scratch or a 1 handicap. ..

 

Where did he say 'big time'?

 

Please don't try to confuse ITeachGolf with facts. If you hadn't quoted him, I wouldn't have had to read what he typed. He's high on my Ignore List, so his posts don't show up on my feed.

 

Thanks for the support, it's nice that someone can read and comprehend.

 

What facts am I confused on? The fact that you said there are hardy any +4s in college golf when there are literally hundreds that would be in that handicap range who have tournament averages that are 72 or better. Or where I posted multiple events where the leaders are shooting 20+ strokes under the course rating and averaging the course rating (tournament + handicap) gets you a finish in the bottom 25% of the field. Yep those darn facts.

 

Don't forget what BrianL99 is too golf! He hates it when people doubt his pedigree! :swoon:

[isaacbm]

The real answer is that it's not definable. Or at least no one ever has been able to pin point it. If anyone on this site could actually put their finger on it, they'd be the most successful coach in the world! No disrespect intended, but seriously, if you want to know how to do something, ask that guys that have done it, not the guys that have almost done it! And sadly that means this guy as well...

 

I suppose for this conversation, the answer is that the best players shoot lower scores in succession more often then the slightly less best players. It's as simple as that. Call it a better anti cap, or they're more consistent, or whatever.

 

It was always my problem, I just couldn't consistently do it 4 days in a row. There could be a thousand reasons why but the actual bottom line is that tournament golf is about putting it together four days in a row. Either you can or you can't. I know that sounds glib but it's not. I too tried everything under the sun and a few things that never should have seen the light of day! LOL!

 

At the end of it all, I just wasn't good enough to consistently put 4 rounds in a row together.

 

I had a year where my 15 best rounds averaged just over 64. But my 15 worst rounds averaged closer to 75. But again, the averages don't really matter (read: the handicap doesn't really matter) All that matters is how often a player can put them together 4 times in a row.

[isaacbm]

And as Monte said, putting them together 4 times in a row only matters if it's timed correctly. Shooting 17 under in Rapid City on the Dakotas tour did less for me then it would have on the PGA Tour. First things first: You have to get to the show!

[tigerstew]

Anyone know the difference between the handicap system in the USA and the U.K.? Plus 6 would be pretty darn difficult to achieve in the uk. Sounds much easier from what you guys are saying about the USA handicap system

[Millbrook]

Anyone know the difference between the handicap system in the USA and the U.K.? Plus 6 would be pretty darn difficult to achieve in the uk. Sounds much easier from what you guys are saying about the USA handicap system

 

Check here - you may have lost the will to live before you reach the end. Most interesting point is the comment

 

'There can be no conversion factor that will make USGA Handicaps and CONGU handicaps comparable. The two systems are far too disparate to make that possible.';

 

http://www.popeofslope.com/scotland/usscothandicaps.html

[3woodvt]

A generaly rule of thumb. If you good enough to make it on a tour you'd better be able to beat the '2' best players at any club around heads up...consistently.

[3woodvt]

Ghost - All players in 78 man field made money. Most events in 93 were $600K events with winner getting $90K. Last place was about $600. I played 30 events (all I was eligible for) and won about $135K in official money. I had a small club deal with TM and along with unofficial money (Pro Ams etc), I probably made about $180K. More than enough to cover my expenses.

 

I went out on "my own money" - no financial backers.

 

For my total of 6 yrs - 93 thru 98, I had a little over $330K in official money. My 2 best paydays were about $40K each (tie for 2nd on Long Island in 93 and 5th place in Tampa in 95 after "4 spotting" on Monday.

 

Had I made it thru Q school at the end of 98, I would have continued on, but had enough of Monday Q's and minis by that time. Had more money in the bank then when I started (not even counting the amounts I had accumulated in the Tour Retirement program), so I called it a day. Worked for Soft Spikes / Pride Tee for a little more than 10 years and retired in July of 2009.

 

I would say that the biggest difference between me (and others like me) was the ability to make the 15' to 25' putts and the ability to "ride the wave" when things are going good and shoot some really low numbers. Good days for me might be 4 or 5 under, but I would always seem to only get one of those per event.

 

Bruce

 

"Ride the wave" - so true and accurate. Every really good golfer I have watched/known can do that. Just get hot and keep the gas pedal to the floor. When I get going, I notice myself starting to try to avoid mistakes rather than apply more pressure. It usually leads to me making a mistake anyway from being too tentative and then wondering why I didn't just keep firing. I always think that watching the web guys here in KC. My course isn't the hardest course I've ever played or anything, but it is a challenge for amateur golfers. They just demolish that place. There are multiple scores of 62 or lower every year. There has been a 60 and a few 61s. I just know somebody will shoot in the 50s sometime soon. It's rated 76.2/138. "Ride the wave" indeed.

I remember playing in a 4 ball years ago and my best friend got paired up with a 16 year old that eventually played the mini tours. My friend was a 2 and he and the 16 year old teed off about an hour before us. We were on about the 5th hold when a marshall came through and provided an update and asked if anyone knew this 16 year old. Said they were -7 through 9 holes.

 

I asked my friend later that day on the ride home and asked him how did it feel. He said he was out of his comfort zone when they were -3 through 4 holes...once they got to -7 at the turn he didn't really know how to act...way out of his comfort zone. Anyway couple hundred dollars for winning 2 skins that day made him feel back to normal and glad he got to play with a potential tour player. end of story kid never made it...liked the bar scene more than the practice range. Used to beat McGirt, Marino, Gainey, and others that are still on the tour as much as they beat him. There are 10,000 out there battling it out for 25 spots. Tough but doable and have to have a lot of drive and a little luck.

[3woodvt]

Ghost - All players in 78 man field made money. Most events in 93 were $600K events with winner getting $90K. Last place was about $600. I played 30 events (all I was eligible for) and won about $135K in official money. I had a small club deal with TM and along with unofficial money (Pro Ams etc), I probably made about $180K. More than enough to cover my expenses.

 

I went out on "my own money" - no financial backers.

 

For my total of 6 yrs - 93 thru 98, I had a little over $330K in official money. My 2 best paydays were about $40K each (tie for 2nd on Long Island in 93 and 5th place in Tampa in 95 after "4 spotting" on Monday.

 

Had I made it thru Q school at the end of 98, I would have continued on, but had enough of Monday Q's and minis by that time. Had more money in the bank then when I started (not even counting the amounts I had accumulated in the Tour Retirement program), so I called it a day. Worked for Soft Spikes / Pride Tee for a little more than 10 years and retired in July of 2009.

 

I would say that the biggest difference between me (and others like me) was the ability to make the 15' to 25' putts and the ability to "ride the wave" when things are going good and shoot some really low numbers. Good days for me might be 4 or 5 under, but I would always seem to only get one of those per event.

 

Bruce

 

"Ride the wave" - so true and accurate. Every really good golfer I have watched/known can do that. Just get hot and keep the gas pedal to the floor. When I get going, I notice myself starting to try to avoid mistakes rather than apply more pressure. It usually leads to me making a mistake anyway from being too tentative and then wondering why I didn't just keep firing. I always think that watching the web guys here in KC. My course isn't the hardest course I've ever played or anything, but it is a challenge for amateur golfers. They just demolish that place. There are multiple scores of 62 or lower every year. There has been a 60 and a few 61s. I just know somebody will shoot in the 50s sometime soon. It's rated 76.2/138. "Ride the wave" indeed.

I remember playing in a 4 ball years ago and my best friend got paired up with a 16 year old that eventually played the mini tours. My friend was a 2 and he and the 16 year old teed off about an hour before us. We were on about the 5th hold when a marshall came through and provided an update and asked if anyone knew this 16 year old. Said they were -7 through 9 holes.

 

I asked my friend later that day on the ride home and asked him how did it feel. He said he was out of his comfort zone when they were -3 through 4 holes...once they got to -7 at the turn he didn't really know how to act...way out of his comfort zone. Anyway couple hundred dollars for winning 2 skins that day made him feel back to normal and glad he got to play with a potential tour player. end of story kid never made it...liked the bar scene more than the practice range. Used to beat McGirt, Marino, Gainey, and others that are still on the tour as much as they beat him. There are 10,000 out there battling it out for 25 spots. Tough but doable and have to have a lot of drive and a little luck.

I walked with him, Weatcroft, and McGirt one round...all shot in the 60's that day. 2 of the 3 made it.

[BrianL99]

Anyone know the difference between the handicap system in the USA and the U.K.? Plus 6 would be pretty darn difficult to achieve in the uk. Sounds much easier from what you guys are saying about the USA handicap system

 

It's certainly a way different system, which I sort of found out by accident. We seem to run into a lot of vacationers from Europe at World Woods, during the winter. The first time I noticed it, I was playing with a Brit who told me he was 6 at home (I was a 5 at the time). I would have needed 2 or 3 a side, to have a chance against him.

 

In the last 2 months, I've played with 2 Scratch players from London and 1 Web.com player. Granted, it was just one round with each, but I would have put the Web.com player at about +4 or +5 and the "Scratch" guys at +2 or +3.

 

I have heard noises about the USGA going to a system more similar to the CONGU system, but there are always rumblings from the USGA.

[Holy Moses]

The difference is really small, a few strokes at most per round. If we saw a Tour pro and a +6 at the range and on the putting green, we wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

[starsail85]

The lowest handicap ever under the UK or euro system is +6( Sergio Garcia ) plus 5.6 he got to

 

Plus 4 is about as low as it gets maybe the odd plus 5

 

 

I'm plus 2 UK but based on a good spell of golf 9 out of 20 I would be plus 5 in U.S.

 

I have a friend who moved to USA playing off a UK 3.5 and he was soon playing off plus 1

 

[larrybud]

To add to this, I also think that the field in golf is even smaller than the 150 or so competing each week, because the longevity of the top players takes those spots away. Mickelson is 46 and looks to be going nowhere, and in most sports, especially football, you don't have many top guys even playing more than 15 years or so. Once you hit mid 30s in most sports, your career is just about over, while in golf, many are peaking at that age.

[thekru]

he said there aren't many college players at +4. the best ones would be multiple shots better than +4. there are tons at +4. have you seen the courses these kids play? they're the hardest courses in the country in harder conditions than the pga tour will ever see.

 

huge difference between playing a course in the summer when its nice, vs the college golf seasons which have junk weather. go play a 7000 yard course in 40 degrees and rain, then play it again in the same day. tell me how your scores do.

 

you have to factor in the weather for college golf and that a lot of rounds are back to back. which show even more how good the kids are.

 

Here is the Ohio State mens schedule. They have 13 scheduled tournaments and only 3-4 of their tournaments have a higher risk of being in cold and and wet conditions. Of course with the weather they could play all of them in poor conditions or all of them in great conditions. They are not struggling with the weather as much as you make out. My former boss was a division 1 golf coach so I know what conditions they play in for a northern D1 program. It is nowhere as bad as you make it sound.

 

http://www.ohiostate...golf-sched.html

[Ghost of Snead]

I asked my friend later that day on the ride home and asked him how did it feel. He said he was out of his comfort zone when they were -3 through 4 holes...once they got to -7 at the turn he didn't really know how to act...way out of his comfort zone. Anyway couple hundred dollars for winning 2 skins that day made him feel back to normal and glad he got to play with a potential tour player. end of story kid never made it...liked the bar scene more than the practice range. Used to beat McGirt, Marino, Gainey, and others that are still on the tour as much as they beat him. There are 10,000 out there battling it out for 25 spots. Tough but doable and have to have a lot of drive and a little luck.

 

All of us know someone like that and some just need to look in the mirror. Glory days ...

[Outlier]

In many ways "being consistent" is not the end all and be all. Better to miss 5 cuts in a row and win (or top 5) then to finish 35th for 5 straight weeks. If you can miss those 5 cuts and live thru the bad patches without losing your confidence and then take max advantage of your good weeks, you have a chance.

 

Q Schools are "crap shoots" - no matter how well you are playing, it has to be "your week".

 

I was successful in 2 Sr Q Schools back in the 90's (7th in 92 for full exem - 93 season. & 13th in 97 for a partial for 98). Was in 7th place going into last round in 98 Q School - played solid the last round - made no putts - 3 over 75 - top 20 but outside of 16th, so down the road. 94 thru 97, I did Monday spots and mini's.

 

I would have never put myself any better than a +2 or +3 at the peak of my game.

 

that would suggest +6 should have a real shot....(Sr. anyways).

[scratchswinger]

What's the biggest difference? Let's start with their bank accounts.