Private Clubs - Concord/Acton/Rt 2

S&B1856 · March 18, 2016

I know this was covered a while ago but I'm looking for a more recent perspective.

We live out in the Concord/Acton area with my young family and we are looking to join a club, but it seems like there are a lack of viable options out this way. We would like a family friendly club with a pool, etc and I'm also trying to take advantage of any under 35 deals while I can.

Concord Country Club is the closest and checks off most of what we are looking for but even with some connections the waiting list is long.

What are our other options?

Wedgewood Pines seems to be the next closest but doesn't get a lot of love on here, not sure why.

Vesper? Oak Hill? Charter Oak? Nashawtuc? These are all probably 30 minutes away, but may be a better experience then WPCC?

Any thoughts?

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

I know this was covered a while ago but I'm looking for a more recent perspective.

We live out in the Concord/Acton area with my young family and we are looking to join a club, but it seems like there are a lack of viable options out this way. We would like a family friendly club with a pool, etc and I'm also trying to take advantage of any under 35 deals while I can.

Concord Country Club is the closest and checks off most of what we are looking for but even with some connections the waiting list is long.

What are our other options?

Wedgewood Pines seems to be the next closest but doesn't get a lot of love on here, not sure why.

Vesper? Oak Hill? Charter Oak? Nashawtuc? These are all probably 30 minutes away, but may be a better experience then WPCC?

Any thoughts?

Forget Concord, it won't happen. You'll be well past the age, when you make it to the top of the list and your sponsors will be dead. Even if it were more accessible, I wouldn't consider it & I can walk to it and have the right sponsors to get in. The course used to be great, now I consider it a dog track, particularly the Back 9. They started allowing carts about 15 years ago and just don't have enough space for cart paths. Part of the Back 9 is built on a swamp.

Vesper is expensive, but a nice track.

Charter Oak has a great dining room and great service. The course is difficult and not a great course. It's very difficult to get to and figure well over an hour from Concord, unless it's 5:30 in the morning.

Nashawtuc has a great dining room, great food, and great for families. The course has great maintenance, but is typically under-water for at least 3-6 weeks of the season. It's built on a swamp and it floods frequently. The course wouldn't make the Top 100 in MA. It's like playing in a wide open field. If they didn't let the rough grow, it would be like playing a well maintained Muni. Nashawtuc is much more expensive than Concord CC and Charter Oaks. The waiting list for younger members is probably manageable and if you know the right people, you can get in fairly quickly.

Wedgewood Pines has the facilities you're looking for and is very reasonable. The food is awful. The course is awful. Decent group of members. The Superintendent resigned this week and they brought in the #2 guy from Charter Oaks. He starts on Monday, I believe. If you're interest in Wedgewood Pines, call Brian Moffit and tell him I told you to call ... he'll give you the straight scoop if he thinks you know me. Great pricing. Good course accessibility.

The best deal is the International, your Membership will be very reasonable & you can use what you save, so your wife and kids can join the WW Pool Club (or Thoreau). If you're interested in IGC, send me a PM and I'll take you over there whenever you want to go.

(Disclaimer: I'm a consultant to IGC. I was member at WW for 6 years (belonged to both WW & IGC). I've lived in Concord/Acton for 30 years, so I've played all the courses, numerous times.)

crcraig · March 18, 2016

I think I'm one of the ones here who has been somewhat critical of Wedgewood Pines in the past. I was a member for 8 years, but it's been almost a decade since I left, so I can't speak to food, membership, prices, or even course conditions anymore. All I can say is that you'd better play the golf course a couple of times with a critical eye before deciding.

I think Brian's "awful" description is too harsh, but there are definitely some drawbacks to the course. The first 7 holes are actually pretty good (although the 7th green redesign is an abomination), with minimal forced carries and not too many places to lose a ball. After that, you'll see a forced carry every 2 or 3 holes, tighter fairways with numerous opportunities to lose balls, and some rather questionable architecture (#9 is in the running for the worst hole I've ever played, and #17 is not a good hole either). Pay particular attention if you think your kids (or wife?) are going to play there. When I was there, I never even bothered taking my girlfriend/wife on the back nine because it was just too difficult for her. Often we just stopped after 7 holes.

OTOH, if you are a solid striker of the ball that hits a lot of fairways, you might not have any problems there. The only way to find out is to play the course a few times.

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

I think Brian's "awful" description is too harsh, but there are definitely some drawbacks to the course. The first 7 holes are actually pretty good (although the 7th green redesign is an abomination), with minimal forced carries and not too many places to lose a ball. After that, you'll see a forced carry every 2 or 3 holes, tighter fairways with numerous opportunities to lose balls, and some rather questionable architecture (#9 is in the running for the worst hole I've ever played, and #17 is not a good hole either). Pay particular attention if you think your kids (or wife?) are going to play there. When I was there, I never even bothered taking my girlfriend/wife on the back nine because it was just too difficult for her. Often we just stopped after 7 holes.

WW has "swapped" 9's, at least 4 different times, but I'm guessing you're calling the hole with the green behind the clubhouse, #9? I don't know if you've played it since the green was enlarged? I wouldn't call the "worst hole ever", but it's not a great hole.

When was there a re-design of the 7th Green? We're talking about the uphill, downhill Par 5? (The hole I made 11 on, during the Sr. Club Championship, when it was playing as the 16th & I was 2 over to there?)

That 9 holes was designed & constructed (sort of) by a semi-professional architect. The back 9 is a different story (the 9 that starts out on the Tee Box you can see from the Pro Shop).

Maybe "awful" is too strong. I wouldn't rate it among my favorite 100 courses in MA.

I did talk with the GM this morning, after reading the O.P.'s post. He says the condition of the course is significantly improved from the last few years. They also finally replaced most of their carts & hired a new Chef.

S&B1856 · March 18, 2016

Great feedback guys, thank you.

I'm stuck in the convenience vs best course conundrum. I have played most of the courses (except Concord and Charter Oak) and Brian I agree with your assessment. If I had to pick I think Vesper would be my favorite mostly because it fits my eye and both IGC courses are fantastic and the golf facilities are second to none. I liked Oak Hill, but it feels very far even though it is an easy trip. NCC is fine but very expensive and I don't feel worth it. WPCC is the most convienant (besides CCC) and when I played the course was so so, nothing I could get excited about. I just couldn't get a feel about how it was there as a club and if I could overcome the short comings of the course. The family aspect/pool is important to sell his to the wife . Is there a decent atmosphere at WP?

Am I missing anywhere even if it is closer to Boston?

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

Great feedback guys, thank you.

I'm stuck in the convenience vs best course conundrum. I have played most of the courses (except Concord and Charter Oak) and Brian I agree with your assessment. If I had to pick I think Vesper would be my favorite mostly because it fits my eye and both IGC courses are fantastic and the golf facilities are second to none. I liked Oak Hill, but it feels very far even though it is an easy trip. NCC is fine but very expensive and I don't feel worth it. WPCC is the most convienant (besides CCC) and when I played the course was so so, nothing I could get excited about. I just couldn't get a feel about how it was there as a club and if I could overcome the short comings of the course. The family aspect/pool is important to sell his to the wife . Is there a decent atmosphere at WP?

Am I missing anywhere even if it is closer to Boston?

You're not missing anyplace. Trust me, I've been down this road way more time than I care to remember.

Charter Oak probably has the best "family" environment, but impossible to get to and the course is "too tough".

Nashawtuc's family environment is busy and all encompassing ... I just don't like the crowd, It's all people who can't get into Concord CC.

Wedgewood is more "blue collar". I use the term loosely, because most blue-collar workers can't afford to belong to a Country Club, but there's certainly isn't the kind of wealth at Wedgewood, as you'll find at Concord, Nashawtuc or Charter Oak. (Keep in mind, Charter Oak is in Hudson, not Sudbury as they'd like you to believe).

Vesper has what I would call an "odd membership" ... or at least it always has in the past. I haven't been there in years and have always felt it was vastly over-priced.

If I were you, I'd join International and let your wife join the pool club at Wedgewood. I talk to Brian this morning, it's $1025 for the pool.

crcraig · March 18, 2016

I think Brian's "awful" description is too harsh, but there are definitely some drawbacks to the course. The first 7 holes are actually pretty good (although the 7th green redesign is an abomination), with minimal forced carries and not too many places to lose a ball. After that, you'll see a forced carry every 2 or 3 holes, tighter fairways with numerous opportunities to lose balls, and some rather questionable architecture (#9 is in the running for the worst hole I've ever played, and #17 is not a good hole either). Pay particular attention if you think your kids (or wife?) are going to play there. When I was there, I never even bothered taking my girlfriend/wife on the back nine because it was just too difficult for her. Often we just stopped after 7 holes.

WW has "swapped" 9's, at least 4 different times, but I'm guessing you're calling the hole with the green behind the clubhouse, #9? I don't know if you've played it since the green was enlarged? I wouldn't call the "worst hole ever", but it's not a great hole.

When was there a re-design of the 7th Green? We're talking about the uphill, downhill Par 5? (The hole I made 11 on, during the Sr. Club Championship, when it was playing as the 16th & I was 2 over to there?)

That 9 holes was designed & constructed (sort of) by a semi-professional architect. The back 9 is a different story (the 9 that starts out on the Tee Box you can see from the Pro Shop).

Maybe "awful" is too strong. I wouldn't rate it among my favorite 100 courses in MA.

I did talk with the GM this morning, after reading the O.P.'s post. He says the condition of the course is significantly improved from the last few years. They also finally replaced most of their carts & hired a new Chef.

Yes, they swapped back and forth a couple of times while I was a member. I was going by the scorecard on their website, which also happens to be the original order when I joined in 1999. So the green redesign (enlargement) on #7 that I hate is directly behind the clubhouse, and the hole I hate (#9) is the one nearest the range and pool. (And that's another thing to consider, Wedgewood's range is quite small and short.)

I had definitely heard the story about the architect designing the front nine, and the Pittorinos going it alone on the back. I don't think it's any coincidence that the holes I generally like were designed by the architect (except for #9 -- I don't know what he was thinking there) and most of the suspect holes were done by amateurs.

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

I had definitely heard the story about the architect designing the front nine, and the Pittorinos going it alone on the back. I don't think it's any coincidence that the holes I generally like were designed by the architect (except for #9 -- I don't know what he was thinking there) and most of the suspect holes were done by amateurs.

Phil, myself, Tom Devine and someone else who I don't remember, sat at a Pub in Maynard and designed holes for the back 9, on the restaurant's place mat.

& you're right, #9 is a ridiculous hole. It's a draw hole, but you have to fade the ball, to hold the green :)

eacsgolferdad · March 18, 2016

Have you looked at Sterling? I'm a big fan because my father is a member and I've played it many times. Good course that is always in great condition. The greens are as good and as fast as any around the area. They have a big pool complex too. Brian can weigh in on Sterling since he was member there as well at one time.

It's tough to beat the two courses at IGC. I've played both several times and would be happy to play either one any day of the week. They also have a great practice facility.

Vesper is very nice too but also extremely pricey. They may also have a waiting list now again.

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

Have you looked at Sterling? I'm a big fan because my father is a member and I've played it many times. Good course that is always in great condition. The greens are as good and as fast as any around the area. They have a big pool complex too. Brian can weigh in on Sterling since he was member there as well at one time.

It's tough to beat the two courses at IGC. I've played both several times and would be happy to play either one any day of the week. They also have a great practice facility.

Vesper is very nice too but also extremely pricey. They may also have a waiting list now again.

Sterling is a nice track and in excellent condition. Is a 45 minute drive from the Concord/Acton area. It takes me 32 minutes to IGC, from Concord Center on a good day. Sterling is 15-18 minutes further. Only a special kind of guy drives all the way from Billerica :)

The problem with Sterling, is there's no one to play with. I think they're hovering around 125 Members and really struggling. I don't think they'll be closing up anytime soon, as the owner has plenty of money ... what the hell, he out bid us for the course :)

The other problem with Sterling National, is that old guy who looks like he was probably playing back in Old Tom Morris' day ... & if you let him move up from the back tees, he'll steal all your lunch money, right T.O. ?

eacsgolferdad · March 18, 2016

He drives all the way to Sterling from Woburn but he's retired for almost ten years so what else is he going to do with his time. He doesn't putt like he used but he can still take his share of lunch money.

S&B1856 · March 18, 2016

I've thought about Sterling, but again a bit to far out of the way. I've never played it but have heard great things.

My sense is that WW is the most logical choice but I'm just concerned about the course. It seems like the course is a widely known concern, have they ever thought about making changes? There is such a great market out this way for a family friendly club ( now that the economy is better). I think if Quail Ridge could have hung on, they would have been fine now....but I digress.

But for me with little kids most of my golf is going to be when I can fit it in, so convenience is the biggest factor. The golf is mostly a before/after work thing for now and bringing guests. A pool gives me an excuse to spend more time on site.

FWIW IGC, Vesper, Oak Hill and Charter Oak all run about the same dues wise.

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

He drives all the way to Sterling from Woburn but he's retired for almost ten years so what else is he going to do with his time. He doesn't putt like he used but he can still take his share of lunch money.

Sterling is the perfect course for him. Not too long. Hit it straight. Put one foot in front of the other. Don't be stupid on the greens.

That's why he's probably still shooting 73-74, at his age :)

BTW, I still want first dibs on the GTO.

BrianL99 · March 18, 2016

I've thought about Sterling, but again a bit to far out of the way. I've never played it but have heard great things.

My sense is that WW is the most logical choice but I'm just concerned about the course. It seems like the course is a widely known concern, have they ever thought about making changes? There is such a great market out this way for a family friendly club ( now that the economy is better). I think if Quail Ridge could have hung on, they would have been fine now....but I digress.

But for me with little kids most of my golf is going to be when I can fit it in, so convenience is the biggest factor. The golf is mostly a before/after work thing for now and bringing guests. A pool gives me an excuse to spend more time on site.

FWIW IGC, Vesper, Oak Hill and Charter Oak all run about the same dues wise.

Oak Hill is Vesper money?

I wouldn't play Oak Hill if they were handing out $100 bills on the first tee.

The back 9 has been under water, since the day after they built it.

& WW will never be significantly modified. They don't have any land to do it, nor any motivation. They re-did the 10th hole about 10 years ago. They extended the 1st Hole about 7 years ago. They added to the 9th Green about 5 years ago. They have way more pressing needs, than changing the routing. The land has a drainage problem and they've been unwilling to invest the money to solve that problem.

The reason that WW was built, was the land wasn't developable. The soils are very poorly draining and surrounded by wetlands. Phil owned 65 acres for about 25 years and couldn't do anything with it. When he finally gave up trying to develop it, he decided to try building a golf course. I had an Option on 25 adjoining acres, which I sold to Phil and then another abutter sold him 30 or so acres. He then had to shoehorn the course into the 120 or so acres, while staying away from the wetlands on the site. Is pretty cramped in there.

allparz · March 22, 2016

I would agree with Brian - basically you're screwed if you live in Concord/Acton - you can't get into Concord CC and there are no other options -- maybe join a Pool Tennis club like Thoreau or Heritage and play golf at the Muni's in the area of which there are plenty if you include rides to Red Tail, Butter Brook and Stowe -- but it's public golf...and it's probably far cheaper in the long run...

2nd Option would be to move someplace where there are private courses dying for members - like Walpole, Spring Valley, Foxboro, Providence, Blue Hills CC...areas

Say Brian L ....Were you and I in the final group in the 1978 MA High School Championship?

BrianL99 · March 22, 2016

I

Say Brian L ....Were you and I in the final group in the 1978 MA High School Championship?

Unfortunately, I was way out of HS in 1978 :)

OrangeCrush · March 23, 2016

I

Say Brian L ....Were you and I in the final group in the 1978 MA High School Championship?

Unfortunately, I was way out of HS in 1978 :)

If that was 1968 there is a better chance!

cubiclegolfer · March 31, 2016

Vesper is an excellent course and always in great shape. They open this weekend and I'm looking forward to playing there with my friend who is a member. They have some strong players at the club as well, based on what I've seen having played in a number of member/guest tournaments there over the past few years. The head pro is excellent, former Country Club guy I believe.

From what I remember him saying about the cost, it's actually not expensive at all. There are the usual quarterly food minimums and golf dues that are comparable with many other private courses (~$5k ish?) and they are offering some serious breaks on initiations, maybe even 0 initiation below 35 years old. He paid $12k initiation when he joined if I remember correctly. Perhaps he is misinformed. I am sure the dues go up when you turn 36 or 40. Good luck with whatever decision you make.