Confessions 12 --- Exploding Heads

[DeNinny]

 

...for all my HBB homies. Make it RAIN!!!

 

[Conrad1953]

:busted_cop: WARNING :busted_cop:

 

By reading this post any further, AND you still think high bounce is "helping" you so much, your head may explode. Alternatively you may finally understand that I'm really trying to help you! (Which means help your golf game too.)

 

:beach: END OF WARNING :beach:

 

This is a short quiz for any HBBs (High Bounce Believers) that still believe there is a significant benefit to bounce that outweighs all of its detriments. The only requirements to taking this quiz are that you answer truthfully and to the best of your abilities. Also you may need to really study the differences between a low and high bounce wedge (...ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL...) and even hit some shots with both of them. (Take your time before responding!) You can just envision this all if you want and just treat it as another "thought experiment". And lastly, to set one parameter equal, please answer under the assumption that the lie is soft turf after a rain where supposedly high bounce helps.

 

1) What is the actual physical measurement that bounce changes the bottom point of the wedge? 1/2"? 1/32"? 1mm? Fractions of a millimeter? Other? Meaning, how much physically different is a low and high bounce club from a height perspective?

 

2) Also, at the tip of the leading edge of the high and low bounce wedges, how much more is the radius of it? The tip forms a curve (just like a "ski tip", right?) and the high bounce wedge will have more curvature. Estimate how much physically more this is using the radius of the curvature. Is it 1/2"? 1/32", 1mm? Fractions of a millimeter? Other?

 

3) When you hit a shot where the high bounce club actually "helped" you, how far back from a good shot (where you didn't need the bounce) did you hit the ground first? 1/2"? 1/32"? 1mm? Fractions of a millimeter? Other?

 

4) Based on your answer to question 3), how different is the "saved" shot when using a low bounce club as compared to a high bounce club? Remember, a low bounce club also has a curved leading edge and rounded bottom, so you will still "save" some shots with a low bounce club too. So how far as compared to your answer to 3) above is this?

 

5) Based on all your answers to questions 1) through 4), please explain, based on your own understanding of the physics, how the dimensions of 1) and 2) explain the size of 3) and 4)? Meaning, how can they be different or how can they be the same? For example, Is 1) > 3) and why is it that way? Is 2) < 4) and why is that? Why are any of them equal with each other? Please consider ALL combinations and justify each one using physics to the best of your ability.

 

Now let's consider the flipside argument, the low bounce dig.

 

6) When you dig the club with a low bounce wedge, physically how deep would you dig before it became a bad shot? 1/2"? 1/32"? 1mm? Fractions of a millimeter? Other?

 

7) When you dig the club with a high bounce wedge, physically how deep would you dig before it became a bad shot? 1/2"? 1/32"? 1mm? Fractions of a millimeter? Other?

 

8) Based on all your answers to questions 1), 2), 6), and 7), please explain, based on your own understanding of the physics, how the dimensions of 1) and 2) explain the size of 6) and 7)? Meaning, how can they be different or how can they be the same? For example, Is 1) > 7) and why is it that way? Is 2) < 6) and why is that? Why are any of them equal with each other? Please consider ALL combinations and justify each one using physics to the best of your ability.

 

Now let's consider how these shots are actually created.

 

9) Envision creating the "saved" bounce shots from 3) and 4) above and all the details of how it happens. What is the AoA that would create each shot? Are they the same AoAs? Too steep? Too shallow? How and why are they different if so?

 

10) Based on your answer to 9), what would happen to those same shots if you hit them EXACTLY the same, BUT... you were using the OTHER bounce club? Would the shot(s) then turn into a mishit? Would the shot(s) then be saved? Please explain it with your understanding of the physics.

 

11) Envision creating the "dug" mishit shots from 6) and 7) above and all the details of how it happens. Are they from different AoAs? How different if so?

 

12) How is it that it is so easy to take a really long divot in soft wet ground but yet the clubs bounce such a short distance as per your answers to 3) and 4) above?

 

BTW, I have no issue if this post is completely ignored. Simply consider it twelve of the "dirty dozen" questions that I have asked myself a million (<- exaggeration so please don't nitpick) times before coming to my conclusions that high bounce has ZERO benefit from a theoretical perspective.

 

Note also that all of these questions should be asked for EVERY type of wedge lie, but I chose one of the more conventional lies. If you care to answer all of it for other lie types, feel free. Or just ignore.

I am fixing to open up another can of worms on this deal. Effective bounce also has to do with how steep or shallow an individual's swing is too

 

Oh no, are you sure you want that can opened? I'm an EBB also Stu. And

don't forget that degrees of shaft lean at impact are a factor too. Us EBBs

bounce around from lots of lean to back to vertical, where we go braless

and all the bounce is exposed.

 

It's funny you mention all this because when you make the shaft more vertical, that exposed bounce simply increases your odds of hitting the ground first instead of the ball compared to doing the same with a low bounce wedge. AND...when you make the shaft vertical, the low bounce wedge has no greater chance of digging than the high bounce wedge. Their leading edges are at the same position, but the high bounce wedge has a lower bottom that INTERFERES with the ground.

 

So how is it with your version of the "physics" that the low bounce wedge digs more when ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL?

 

Doesn't it take a steep AoA to make the clubhead dig?

 

And then when you swing both clubs with a steep AoA, how is it that soft wet ground immediately makes the high bounce wedge NOT dig? How is it that the steep AoA swing suddenly turns shallow due to the bounce? And how can you take a really nice divot intentionally with a high bounce wedge in soft wet ground?

 

Can you please explain all this physics when all those shaft leans and angles are going to be the same between a high and low bounce wedge? At what specific angle, WITH BOTH CLUBS, does the low bounce wedge "dig" and the high bounce wedge "bounces"? Again the ground is soft and wet too and then also you can easily take divots with ANY club? How does soft wet turf reroute a high bounce wedge which also changes the position of shaft, hands, and arms?

 

While you are at it, can you estimate how many bad shots your high bounce wedges save you (compared to a low bounce wedge) but also estimate how many of them cost you when the high bounce wedge hits the ground first and/or blades the ball when the low bounce wedge doesn't?

 

LOL, the wedges I carry range from 8 degrees to 12 degrees of bounce.

I tend to pick my club for a shot based more on loft than bounce.

 

Bounce does one thing.....it raises the leading edge WITH THE SHAFT

VERTICAL. If you lean the shaft forward the leading edge is lowered.

That was my point. Forward shaft lean NEGATES bounce.

 

"Using the bounce" when hitting a shot implies a vertical shaft at impact.

Whether you have 6 degrees or 12 degrees it likely doesn't matter much since

golfer error, as usual, is a larger factor in shot execution.

 

Some people feel more comfortable with a higher bounce wedge cause it

alleviates the worry of the leading edge digging because it is higher off the

ground but low enough to hit the ball below the equator.

 

The best thing you can say is "This works for me but YMMV". That's what

many will say when it comes to matters such as these, rather than tell

someone they're playing the wrong clubs, when you don't know their game.

[thug the bunny]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

 

Dammit MGD, why did you have to awaken the ho in me? I was sure I was set for another 5 yrs cause I have a new backup set of FGs. Damn those things look hot. I went to the website, and all the reviews were off the charts, and they sounded genuine. And for $400 US? You gotta be kidding me. Uh oh, my heart rate is starting to rise...

 

Sweet clubs. What's the "bounce" on them?

 

It's overrated. ;~0

[Matt J]

Thug, I remember your metal spikes thread. Total debacle. Shows how over-the-top this place can get!

[DeNinny]

LOL, the wedges I carry range from 8 degrees to 12 degrees of bounce.

I tend to pick my club for a shot based more on loft than bounce.

 

LOL your lack of response to my questions speaks volumes.

 

My point has always been the difference bounce makes WHEN ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL. And this includes LOFT.

 

Bounce does one thing.....it raises the leading edge WITH THE SHAFT

VERTICAL. If you lean the shaft forward the leading edge is lowered.

That was my point. Forward shaft lean NEGATES bounce.

 

I completely understand your points. I completely understand what shaft lean does and what bounce does. My questions were merely a followup to said points.

 

"Using the bounce" when hitting a shot implies a vertical shaft at impact.

Whether you have 6 degrees or 12 degrees it likely doesn't matter much since

golfer error, as usual, is a larger factor in shot execution.

 

And all I'm saying is that it is unequivocally true that the higher bounce wedge has a higher leading edge. And so when you set the leading edge heights the same between the high and low bounce clubs, you either need to lower the leading edge of high bounce club to the height of the low bounce club, or you need to raise the leading edge of the low bounce club to that of the high bounce club. When you do the former, you end up pushing the bounce of the high bounce club into the ground, whereas the low bounce club is merely touching the ground. When you do the latter, you end up RAISING the low bounce club OFF the ground, but the high bounce wedge is touching it.

 

In BOTH of these cases, the low bounce wedge, based on the pure physics, is theoretically better in this exact scenario. The low bounce wedge has MORE ROOM for ERROR.

 

It is ironic that now you claim error is more important but yet you still have some technical justification for why NOT to play a low bounce club. And you at once had a point that high bounce had some technical merit. My explanation just explained why having the bounce raise the leading edge is NOT better, theoretically, than just raising the low bounce wedge leading edge to the same height WITHOUT the bounce. Both can clip the ball below the equator, but the low bounce wedge can go a little lower.

 

Some people feel more comfortable with a higher bounce wedge cause it

alleviates the worry of the leading edge digging because it is higher off the

ground but low enough to hit the ball below the equator.

 

And this point is a clear contradiction to your other point that 6 degrees vs 12 degrees of bounce DOESN'T matter due to golfer error. So now, shouldn't golfer error cause the digging and NOT the low bounce leading edge since it, as usual, is the larger factor in shot execution?

 

Furthermore, how come it is all of a sudden significant for one of your points but not for another?

 

The best thing you can say is "This works for me but YMMV". That's what

many will say when it comes to matters such as these, rather than tell

someone they're playing the wrong clubs, when you don't know their game.

 

If this is true than you should have said that yourself several posts ago. Until now I just thought we were having a technical discussion still. You had a lot of questions and technical challenges to me for many, many posts. I just thought you would be able to indulge me on mine.

 

And for the record, I have NEVER said anyone is playing the wrong clubs. I know what I write and I have NEVER EVER said that.

 

What I have always said is that there is zero technical benefit of using high bounce clubs based on the laws of physics. And this is still a theoretically true statement. All of my questions and points have always been with respect to this topic alone.

 

So feel free to play whatever you want. No disagreement here. And absolutely I don't know anyone's game here with the exception of dan360s. (I never said I did.)

[Michael C.]

So, it turns out I was just standing a little too far away from my 3w. Moved a little closer and BOOM! There she was. Lol

 

Took Mrs C to the range today. She was standing too far from the ball. Moved her a little closer and told her to just turn back, turn through and keep your back. She was killing it. Lol.

 

So I pulled the 3w and moved a little closer. Lol. She asked me when we were driving away. "How do you know when you get it right?"...meaning distance from the ball. I explained when you stand too far and you move closer. It feels uncomfortable. Then, you get used to it. Then, you remember to stand close enough to be uncomfortable BUT NOW youre too close because you've become comfortable. So, you have back up a little. LMAO! She looked at me like I was nuts. I said, "25 years and I've creeped away from my 3w and had to make an adjustment. Great game, huh?"

 

Actually, my 3w was pretty good off the tee but off the deck I had the same setup and that was too far for my swing.

 

YMMV.... :D

[thug the bunny]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 $360 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Edit: forgot shipping

[Michael C.]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

I had to look those up. They're a sweet looking club. Nice pickup, brah!

[DeNinny]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Wow that is some lightening fast ho'ing. You, sir, ho like a WRX bunny rabbit! :taunt:

[thug the bunny]

Thug, I remember your metal spikes thread. Total debacle. Shows how over-the-top this place can get!

 

Interesting follow-up. A couple months ago I was chatting with our head pro and I mentioned my metal spike shoes and asked him if he would mind if I wore them during after hours rounds playing by myself. He said no problem, just not during prime times when everyone else would wonder if the course allowed metal, and of course not around the clubhouse. So, I got a free pass to wear metal!

[BIG STU]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

Are you serious mdg? I'll trade you my Macs for your S58s. I could use a back

up set. :D

GASP!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

[thug the bunny]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Wow that is some lightening fast ho'ing. You, sir, ho like a WRX bunny rabbit! :taunt:

 

LOL! Hey, us bunnies ho quickly. Bam bam, done! It's weird, I got this inner tingly like 'what if these are a cheap undiscovered gem' just like I had when I first saw the FG59s.

[BIG STU]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

Did you end up getting them?? Customs is hit or miss I find ordering from the states. Sometimes it's not much and others it's killer. I don't understand how it works?? Lol

I thought we had the NAFTA deal going with Canada and I thought the import tax was not that much if anything between our two countries.

[BIG STU]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 $360 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Edit: forgot shipping

I looked them up and they sound good. I thought about pulling the trigger on a set myself but then again I did get two sets of pristine Macs 3 weeks ago and will reshaft the Muirfields later on that gives me 6 sets of playable Mac Blades plus my set of forged CB Infiniti irons

[DeNinny]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Wow that is some lightening fast ho'ing. You, sir, ho like a WRX bunny rabbit! :taunt:

 

LOL! Hey, us bunnies ho quickly. Bam bam, done! It's weird, I got this inner tingly like 'what if these are a cheap undiscovered gem' just like I had when I first saw the FG59s.

 

LMAO and thank you ma'am. I'm more of a kama sutra ho.

 

That sense is the smarter subconscious scientist in you. LOL or your 'bladey sense'. While you were admiring the beauty of them, he was calculating how they are different but in some ways similar to your FG59s and telling your conscious mind to pull the trigger. There are a lot of good design features in that club. So simple. AND smooth. I'm really interested in how the 1035 carbon steel feels more than anything.

 

My 'bladey sense' tingled the hardest when I first saw the FG59s. More so than any other blade.

[Conrad1953]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

Are you serious mdg? I'll trade you my Macs for your S58s. I could use a back

up set. :D

GASP!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

 

LOL, I already know there's no way mdg will part with his S58s so it

was really a "faux" offer. My Macs aren't going anywhere. I still need to

get the Mac wedges shafted up. Everything is at home waiting for me

to do it, lol. Those wedges are going to be bada*** and, you know, I

don't even know what the bounce on each of them is....hehehehehe.

[DeNinny]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 $360 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Edit: forgot shipping

I looked them up and they sound good. I thought about pulling the trigger on a set myself but then again I did get two sets of pristine Macs 3 weeks ago and will reshaft the Muirfields later on that gives me 6 sets of playable Mac Blades plus my set of forged CB Infiniti irons

 

LOL 6 sets of Macs. N+5 redundancy. That is some serious OCD hoing right there.

[Conrad1953]

LOL, the wedges I carry range from 8 degrees to 12 degrees of bounce.

I tend to pick my club for a shot based more on loft than bounce.

 

LOL your lack of response to my questions speaks volumes.

 

My point has always been the difference bounce makes WHEN ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL. And this includes LOFT.

 

Bounce does one thing.....it raises the leading edge WITH THE SHAFT

VERTICAL. If you lean the shaft forward the leading edge is lowered.

That was my point. Forward shaft lean NEGATES bounce.

 

I completely understand your points. I completely understand what shaft lean does and what bounce does. My questions were merely a followup to said points.

 

"Using the bounce" when hitting a shot implies a vertical shaft at impact.

Whether you have 6 degrees or 12 degrees it likely doesn't matter much since

golfer error, as usual, is a larger factor in shot execution.

 

And all I'm saying is that it is unequivocally true that the higher bounce wedge has a higher leading edge. And so when you set the leading edge heights the same between the high and low bounce clubs, you either need to lower the leading edge of high bounce club to the height of the low bounce club, or you need to raise the leading edge of the low bounce club to that of the high bounce club. When you do the former, you end up pushing the bounce of the high bounce club into the ground, whereas the low bounce club is merely touching the ground. When you do the latter, you end up RAISING the low bounce club OFF the ground, but the high bounce wedge is touching it.

 

In BOTH of these cases, the low bounce wedge, based on the pure physics, is theoretically better in this exact scenario. The low bounce wedge has MORE ROOM for ERROR.

 

It is ironic that now you claim error is more important but yet you still have some technical justification for why NOT to play a low bounce club. And you at once had a point that high bounce had some technical merit. My explanation just explained why having the bounce raise the leading edge is NOT better, theoretically, than just raising the low bounce wedge leading edge to the same height WITHOUT the bounce. Both can clip the ball below the equator, but the low bounce wedge can go a little lower.

 

Some people feel more comfortable with a higher bounce wedge cause it

alleviates the worry of the leading edge digging because it is higher off the

ground but low enough to hit the ball below the equator.

 

And this point is a clear contradiction to your other point that 6 degrees vs 12 degrees of bounce DOESN'T matter due to golfer error. So now, shouldn't golfer error cause the digging and NOT the low bounce leading edge since it, as usual, is the larger factor in shot execution?

 

Furthermore, how come it is all of a sudden significant for one of your points but not for another?

 

The best thing you can say is "This works for me but YMMV". That's what

many will say when it comes to matters such as these, rather than tell

someone they're playing the wrong clubs, when you don't know their game.

 

If this is true than you should have said that yourself several posts ago. Until now I just thought we were having a technical discussion still. You had a lot of questions and technical challenges to me for many, many posts. I just thought you would be able to indulge me on mine.

 

And for the record, I have NEVER said anyone is playing the wrong clubs. I know what I write and I have NEVER EVER said that.

 

What I have always said is that there is zero technical benefit of using high bounce clubs based on the laws of physics. And this is still a theoretically true statement. All of my questions and points have always been with respect to this topic alone.

 

So feel free to play whatever you want. No disagreement here. And absolutely I don't know anyone's game here with the exception of dan360s. (I never said I did.)

 

I wish I could dissect a golf course the way you do a post!!

 

I bet Stu can teach me trick shots with high bounce wedges.

[BIG STU]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

Are you serious mdg? I'll trade you my Macs for your S58s. I could use a back

up set. :D

GASP!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

 

LOL, I already know there's no way mdg will part with his S58s so it

was really a "faux" offer. My Macs aren't going anywhere. I still need to

get the Mac wedges shafted up. Everything is at home waiting for me

to do it, lol. Those wedges are going to be bada*** and, you know, I

don't even know what the bounce on each of them is....hehehehehe.

Sometimes you are better off not knowing-- you can guessestimate by placing them on a flat surface at neutral position and seeing how far the leading edge is off the ground and then rotate open and see and then close and look. That will give you an idea of what you have to work with in different positions. Do not know if I am playing this weekend or not. Bo Bear is in NY for a couple of months and I do not know how many of the Miura Mafia are in town. I do have my old Cleveland wedges in the bag. I hit the Hopkins good last week and still like the Renegar wedges but there is just something about those old rusty Cleveland 588s I love besides the rust. Like I told Bo on the phone last night I am quitting screwing around with wedges and getting back serious

[BIG STU]

^^^^ Rad I can teach you something on those. It takes good hand eye coordination and feel. For the record though I carry low bounce wedges on the course. On my 588 60* I really have a low bounce because I have a Scratch type EGG grind on the leading edge of the sole and a little heel relief

[DeNinny]

LOL, the wedges I carry range from 8 degrees to 12 degrees of bounce.

I tend to pick my club for a shot based more on loft than bounce.

 

LOL your lack of response to my questions speaks volumes.

 

My point has always been the difference bounce makes WHEN ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL. And this includes LOFT.

 

Bounce does one thing.....it raises the leading edge WITH THE SHAFT

VERTICAL. If you lean the shaft forward the leading edge is lowered.

That was my point. Forward shaft lean NEGATES bounce.

 

I completely understand your points. I completely understand what shaft lean does and what bounce does. My questions were merely a followup to said points.

 

"Using the bounce" when hitting a shot implies a vertical shaft at impact.

Whether you have 6 degrees or 12 degrees it likely doesn't matter much since

golfer error, as usual, is a larger factor in shot execution.

 

And all I'm saying is that it is unequivocally true that the higher bounce wedge has a higher leading edge. And so when you set the leading edge heights the same between the high and low bounce clubs, you either need to lower the leading edge of high bounce club to the height of the low bounce club, or you need to raise the leading edge of the low bounce club to that of the high bounce club. When you do the former, you end up pushing the bounce of the high bounce club into the ground, whereas the low bounce club is merely touching the ground. When you do the latter, you end up RAISING the low bounce club OFF the ground, but the high bounce wedge is touching it.

 

In BOTH of these cases, the low bounce wedge, based on the pure physics, is theoretically better in this exact scenario. The low bounce wedge has MORE ROOM for ERROR.

 

It is ironic that now you claim error is more important but yet you still have some technical justification for why NOT to play a low bounce club. And you at once had a point that high bounce had some technical merit. My explanation just explained why having the bounce raise the leading edge is NOT better, theoretically, than just raising the low bounce wedge leading edge to the same height WITHOUT the bounce. Both can clip the ball below the equator, but the low bounce wedge can go a little lower.

 

Some people feel more comfortable with a higher bounce wedge cause it

alleviates the worry of the leading edge digging because it is higher off the

ground but low enough to hit the ball below the equator.

 

And this point is a clear contradiction to your other point that 6 degrees vs 12 degrees of bounce DOESN'T matter due to golfer error. So now, shouldn't golfer error cause the digging and NOT the low bounce leading edge since it, as usual, is the larger factor in shot execution?

 

Furthermore, how come it is all of a sudden significant for one of your points but not for another?

 

The best thing you can say is "This works for me but YMMV". That's what

many will say when it comes to matters such as these, rather than tell

someone they're playing the wrong clubs, when you don't know their game.

 

If this is true than you should have said that yourself several posts ago. Until now I just thought we were having a technical discussion still. You had a lot of questions and technical challenges to me for many, many posts. I just thought you would be able to indulge me on mine.

 

And for the record, I have NEVER said anyone is playing the wrong clubs. I know what I write and I have NEVER EVER said that.

 

What I have always said is that there is zero technical benefit of using high bounce clubs based on the laws of physics. And this is still a theoretically true statement. All of my questions and points have always been with respect to this topic alone.

 

So feel free to play whatever you want. No disagreement here. And absolutely I don't know anyone's game here with the exception of dan360s. (I never said I did.)

 

I wish I could dissect a golf course the way you do a post!!

 

I bet Stu can teach me trick shots with high bounce wedges.

 

I'm just used to trolls (not you, my friend) trying to pick mine apart.

 

And I bet that after you learned those shots with a high bounce wedge that they would be even EASIER if you did them with a low bounce wedge.

[BIG STU]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 $360 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Edit: forgot shipping

I looked them up and they sound good. I thought about pulling the trigger on a set myself but then again I did get two sets of pristine Macs 3 weeks ago and will reshaft the Muirfields later on that gives me 6 sets of playable Mac Blades plus my set of forged CB Infiniti irons

 

LOL 6 sets of Macs. N+5 redundancy. That is some serious OCD hoing right there.

Naaaw that aint no Hoeing for me actually it is a reduction. I got rid of a lot of stuff a while back but did not get rid of any Macs. If I add to the 'stable" it will be a set of Macs, Miuras or Mizunos. Remember the "Three Ms"

[vaterman]

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

 

Remember the TV show Seinfeld - a show about 'nothing'?

 

Welcome to just exactly that. Some are younger than others. Some are better than others. Some build clubs - others "ho" them up - some play a lot a some a little. They come from all parts of the world. One of them uses designer wipes. One of them IS a designer wipe. One is moving. We drive trucks - we teach - we haul the mail - we are retired - semi-retired - in college - never been to college - went to a college that damaged us - and we fix teeth. One of us is currently traveling somewhere in India - one lives in Guam - some are left hand and right handed Canoodians - one is a care giver - and all of us have all the answers about golf so we just say crap to each other the others already knew. There is normally about three convos going on at once so don't feel ignored. Think of it as he clubhouse grille where you wander around until you feel like chatting about wipes or swings or something.

 

And as for me - I'm an axe murderer. (just that one time). So feel free to join in. Pull up an axe - I mean char and go for a ride.

 

No arguing is about the only house rule. We leave that for the rest of the internet bombardiers.

 

You forgot the Danes….

[billh17]

I made a decision to bounce on over here as well.

 

PHYSICS, SCIENCE, BLADES!!!!!

 

Throw another down the hatch. Let's get drunk tonight.

 

Yes! LOL.

 

Well, since being back out on the road for 6 weeks I've bought 2 golf clubs,

8 shafts, 11 golf shirts and a pair of golf shorts. I just can't STOP!! It's too

much fun.

 

I'm hoarding for retirement I think, haha.

 

Lol. I picked up a pair of the Ecco golf shoes last weekend at the PGA SS in Chicago. Actually, Downers Grove. It's all about the shoes. There were at least 7 or 8 pairs I wanted.

 

Still searching for the magic 3w. My Cleveland is okay but just not quite right. Maybe, I should get some lead tape and doctor it up. ;)

 

All I probably REALLY need is some bright red golf shorts, eh?

 

I have tried everything from lead tape,up to and including metal screws attached to the shaft with ducktape! I finally just admitted that

I am one of the weirdo's that can't hit a 3W....it is no longer in the bag...I had no confidence in the club....

 

I tried them, I didn't play them b/c I had early Wilson 1200, SYSTEM 45, driver, FWs. But if you can find an early Adams Tight Lies, 3W to fool with, it could be the cure for your lack of confidence. If they came out today, they would fit in the hybrid category for sure.

 

My 1200, 1-3-5 metal woods where about the size of persimons, and steel shafted, still. Graphite came later that year IIRC.

 

Thanks... i will check it out !

[billh17]

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

 

Remember the TV show Seinfeld - a show about 'nothing'?

 

Welcome to just exactly that. Some are younger than others. Some are better than others. Some build clubs - others "ho" them up - some play a lot a some a little. They come from all parts of the world. One of them uses designer wipes. One of them IS a designer wipe. One is moving. We drive trucks - we teach - we haul the mail - we are retired - semi-retired - in college - never been to college - went to a college that damaged us - and we fix teeth. One of us is currently traveling somewhere in India - one lives in Guam - some are left hand and right handed Canoodians - one is a care giver - and all of us have all the answers about golf so we just say crap to each other the others already knew. There is normally about three convos going on at once so don't feel ignored. Think of it as he clubhouse grille where you wander around until you feel like chatting about wipes or swings or something.

 

And as for me - I'm an axe murderer. (just that one time). So feel free to join in. Pull up an axe - I mean char and go for a ride.

 

No arguing is about the only house rule. We leave that for the rest of the internet bombardiers.

 

You forgot the Danes….

 

Never !

[billh17]

God, I am so weak. My inner ho got my Word not allowed off the couch to get my wallet. Felt like someone else was moving my body. Pulled the trigger on the Pursuit 510 MBs. Thanks MDG (meant both earnestly and sarcastically at once). 4 - PW, TT Featherlight S flex shafts, +1* upright. Heck, only $341 $360 delivered. That's less than the latest big name driver offering.

 

I'll post up how they perform. Could these create the next confessions MB craze?

 

Edit: forgot shipping

 

they look great ! looking forward to your comments on them !

[PapaJohick]

...

 

Ninja a little update for you on the nikes. I think the feel is superior to the macs haha. Sorry stu haha. It's just so dang solid. I think I am going to look at buying the new project x Lz iron shafts for then though. Depending on price that is. Flight is decent and all but the feel is heavy and rigid. I'm swinging all out and then some for the longer irons which isn't a bad thing because I'm hitting them well but occasionally it causes either a thin weak fade or a perfectly struck ball that gets pulled left haha. Just need a different feel shaft wise.

 

That simple muscle shape on the Nikes is what makes them feel so solid. You can't go wrong with that design. The classic blade shape is like a samurai sword. There is really no need to change it or add more curves and angles. Just put a simple and solid muscle behind the impact area of the club and you will get simple and solid feeling shots.

 

Not a fan of Project X. I am biased against them because when they came out, they were also considered Rifles but they felt nothing like the original Royal Precision Rifles. If you want to go the opposite direction of heavy and rigid, have you considered Nippons?

 

The only PX shaft I have ever really liked swinging was the PXI. Lighter and smooth. I love nippon modus series. I have a set of 105x in the garage right now. Trying to think if I could actually swing them in the blades or not. If I put them in the wilson F5s then they would work beautifully to bring the flight down, but not sure I'm going to be moving back to those haha. Im a blade guy now i guess... I have been looking to see if anyone had a set of the 105 in either R or S and trade me for the X but have yet to find anyone. Maybe soon haha

[Conrad1953]

^^^^ Rad I can teach you something on those. It takes good hand eye coordination and feel. For the record though I carry low bounce wedges on the course. On my 588 60* I really have a low bounce because I have a Scratch type EGG grind on the leading edge of the sole and a little heel relief

 

The only high bounce (17.5) wedge I own is the Eye 2 SW, which I

rarely carry. You know how that wedge is; the bottom is not rounded,

it has a very unique sole design that can't be described. It has to be

seen. I think Ping brought back that design in some new wedges

this year, not to mention they've had an XG version of the Eye 2

available for several years now.

 

Other than that my wedges range from 8-12 and many the bounce

is unknown. My Ping Gorge wedges are just listed as TS, SS or WS

and no bounce #s and of course the Mac wedges I don't know the

bounce on them.

 

I think Phil has bagged an Eye 2 XG SW or LW off and on the past

several years. He obviously likes that design but no telling if he has

done a little grinding here and there to tweak it.

 

I remember when the new groove rule came into effect he caught

hell for showing up with an old Eye 2 SW, which by court ruling had

been ruled legal on tour FOREVER, lol. Mahan had one too.

 

Then, because of the whining by some, Ping and the tour got

together and agreed those wedges would be non conforming. Ping

no longer really cared cause that court battle was back when they

were still making the Eye 2s and they began making new Eye 2

wedges with conforming grooves for the players.

 

There are still many people who love that Eye 2 wedge design

and it has A LOT of bounce.

[MMB1500]

Lurked on Gigagolf.com and found this:

 

 

Made of 1035c carbon steel.

Forged

If I ordered now, 3-PW, shipped, it would be ±$500 CAD, unless Customs castrates me.

Shipped by Fedex

 

Did you end up getting them?? Customs is hit or miss I find ordering from the states. Sometimes it's not much and others it's killer. I don't understand how it works?? Lol

I thought we had the NAFTA deal going with Canada and I thought the import tax was not that much if anything between our two countries.

 

Sadly not. They slap all sorts of taxes and charges on when you bring in stuff this side of the border. It's very annoying actually.

[Matt J]

Trigger pulled on the M1. And sadly, I hit my driver well. Just ALWAYS want a few more yards.