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Phil and Richard Lee Injury Issue


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Is the rough "too high?"
While I don't know if Richard Lee pulled a Michelle Wie, it is clear Phil got injured at Oakmont in the heavy rough. Having attended at Winged Food last year, it didn't look high enough to hurt someone. This year, the HDTV suggests the USGA went off the deep end.

It seems to me:
1. Nobody would find their balls if there weren't a million forecaddies and TV's watching the balls land.
2. To many professionals cannot advance the ball from balls hit slightly off line.
3. The fairways have been narrrowed beyond reason.

Conclusion, the USGA should have their course setup card revoked.
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Disagree completely. The US Open has for many years been a tough test and is intended to identify the best golfers. Bomb and gouge doesn't work here. Fairways and greens are needed and to many, that is the true test of a golfers abilities.

If Phil was hurt because of the rough, he should stay out of it. Playing from the fairway is much easier.

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I disagree bjrapper. Phil was practicing out of the rough 2 weeks before the tournament. The rough was 7 inches high and he said in an interview that he thought that it might be that way during the tournament so he was trying to see how the ball would come out of the rough. Your comment about staying out of the rough is "outta bounds".

 

The USGA needs to pay more attention to the host club and monitor how the course is playing in the weeks leading up to the tournament. This might resolve this issue.

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Phil simply overdid it, I think he got carried away with

preperation and kept slugging hybrids out of there to see what he could do.

That and the hundred or so wedge and iron shots just proved to much.

I haven't heard the players complain about the course set up, most of

them I think are relieved. The members are angry, they think the USGA

made it too easy.

Word of caution: if a guy wants to play you and says he's a 2 at Oakmont,

run for your life....

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I get the USGA's approach, but a recovery shot is also skillful, but everyone treats it like a dirty word. By making the rough so penal, that is a skill that is greatly diminished in the Championship.

 

Thanks to the greencoats at Augusta, it is also greatly diminished in the requirements for that title.

 

are you kidding it makes recoveries more fun to watch with cross bunkers you have to watch out for when gouging out and then taking ur medicine and trying to scramble thats real recovery shots not gouged irons shots that still spin out of 3 inch rough. I like it :shok: tomorrow will e a great test and fun to watch

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I don't consider hacking out a 100 yard wedge when you are 200 yards out a recovery shot.

 

I am not kidding.

 

I didn't say anything about spinning shots out of three inch rough, although that takes more skill than most people acknowledge. I like it when a player can, at times, compensate for a poor shot with a spectacular one. To me, that is part of golf.

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I don't consider hacking out a 100 yard wedge when you are 200 yards out a recovery shot.

 

I am not kidding.

 

I didn't say anything about spinning shots out of three inch rough, although that takes more skill than most people acknowledge. I like it when a player can, at times, compensate for a poor shot with a spectacular one. To me, that is part of golf.

 

 

 

You will find that you are without a doubt in the minority on this subject!!!

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Maybe I am, I don't care. I like it when a player is tempted to try and recover, and he may fail or succeed in equally spectacular fashion. Forcing him to chunk a wedge out decreases the options. This week hasn't been that bad, in fairness. The worst ever was the 2003 PGA, where everyone just played wedge back to the fairway.

 

"If the U.S. Open is the sternest test of golf on the planet, why is it the easiest of the four to win? The answer of course is that it isn't the sternest test of golf, it's just the sternest test of driving. You miss a fairway, you're screwed and that brings everybody, regardless of his ability, down to the same level."

 

DAVID FEHERTY

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Not a Phil fan but understand why he hurt himself .... he's soft. I think you play the course the way it is... if you can't hack the rough stay out of it. Best player on the course given wins. USGA have it right... it is only one tourney during the year... make it tough and ... adapt or perish.... is Tiger whinging?

 

Saying that ... if I shot 200 I'd be happy!!

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Maybe I am, I don't care. I like it when a player is tempted to try and recover, and he may fail or succeed in equally spectacular fashion. Forcing him to chunk a wedge out decreases the options. This week hasn't been that bad, in fairness. The worst ever was the 2003 PGA, where everyone just played wedge back to the fairway.

 

"If the U.S. Open is the sternest test of golf on the planet, why is it the easiest of the four to win? The answer of course is that it isn't the sternest test of golf, it's just the sternest test of driving. You miss a fairway, you're screwed and that brings everybody, regardless of his ability, down to the same level."

 

DAVID FEHERTY

 

That quote by Feherty is absurd. So precision iron play (leaving the ball below the hole) isn't important in US Opens? Being able to read the correct speed and line and executing the putts on the most difficult greens in the world isn't important in US Opens?

 

And how is the US Open the easiest major to win? It demands the most out of players physically and mentally (players keeping their cool and sticking to a gameplan while making pars). The stress must be unbelievable, even in the first two rounds.

 

There are four majors. They all have their own character and demand different styles of play. If you want to see imaginative recovery shots, the British Open is usually great for this. It is also fun to watch the game being played somewhat on the ground for once, which is something we rarely see. The US Open is not meant to be a test of imaginative shot making or recovery. It is meant to test a player's tee to green ballstriking in the most difficult of conditions, and putting on highly undulated lightning fast greens. One is not better than the other, they are just different. And it's not like we have to chose between the two, we get to see both every year. So what's the problem?

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I disagree bjrapper. Phil was practicing out of the rough 2 weeks before the tournament. The rough was 7 inches high and he said in an interview that he thought that it might be that way during the tournament so he was trying to see how the ball would come out of the rough. Your comment about staying out of the rough is "outta bounds".

 

The USGA needs to pay more attention to the host club and monitor how the course is playing in the weeks leading up to the tournament. This might resolve this issue.

 

Are you crazy? The USGA has full time people on site 2 years before the championship. Implying that the USGA is negligent because Phil found the deepest rough he could find, dropped a couple balls to the bottom, took a full rip and hurt himself is asinine.

 

If I went to my home course, dropped a couple balls behind a tree because "I might hit it there and I want to know how it plays" and hurt myself on the follow thrugh, people would laugh at me, not take me seriously. This is sports- injuries happen. Boo Hoo.

 

Tiger and Vijay look pretty ok to me and they've taken some big rips.

 

As far as the open goes, I think the USGA played this one to perfection.

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I would like to know which clubs PM was practicing with in the rough - if he was practicing recovery shots to the fairway only I bet he would have been OK. His comments (and Pelz') about the rough make him look so weak. In fact for someone in the public eye and in front of the media so often you would think he would have the PR smarts to know what to say and what not to say (Tiger learned this lesson very early in his career). He should have kept his mouth shut and taken the good comments for trying his best and not quitting - and lived with that. I want to like this guy but good grief he just seems to repeatedly make bad decisions - whether on the course or in speaking to the public.

 

I will bet that Oakmont has many recreational golfers that are not nearly in as good a shape as Phil. I will also bet that when they have a shot out of the rough they don't try to be heros and they wedge it back on the short grass.

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I would like to know which clubs PM was practicing with in the rough - if he was practicing recovery shots to the fairway only I bet he would have been OK. His comments (and Pelz') about the rough make him look so weak. In fact for someone in the public eye and in front of the media so often you would think he would have the PR smarts to know what to say and what not to say (Tiger learned this lesson very early in his career). He should have kept his mouth shut and taken the good comments for trying his best and not quitting - and lived with that. I want to like this guy but good grief he just seems to repeatedly make bad decisions - whether on the course or in speaking to the public.

 

I will bet that Oakmont has many recreational golfers that are not nearly in as good a shape as Phil. I will also bet that when they have a shot out of the rough they don't try to be heros and they wedge it back on the short grass.

 

 

 

Phil in good shape? Never heard that one bofore....

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didn't phil find some 12in rough at wingfoot and practice out of there? phil is complaining about the course being too tough. if he was leading would he be complaining? bottom line is that the course is tough for everyone, thus its a fair test of golf. phil will be making excuses next also at torrey when he shoots bad, when he should know that course better than anyone next to tiger. phil is a baby. play and play hard.

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I'm just about fed up with hearing about Phil's injury. When he hurt his wrist before the Open began, he should have known not to try and hit hybrids and woods out of rough that everyone else was hitting wedges out of. They were hitting wedges in order to accomplish 2 things, 1.) get the ball into position from which they could accept bogey or maybe make a great par, and 2.) NOT INJURE THEMSELVES.

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Maybe I am, I don't care. I like it when a player is tempted to try and recover, and he may fail or succeed in equally spectacular fashion. Forcing him to chunk a wedge out decreases the options. This week hasn't been that bad, in fairness. The worst ever was the 2003 PGA, where everyone just played wedge back to the fairway.

 

"If the U.S. Open is the sternest test of golf on the planet, why is it the easiest of the four to win? The answer of course is that it isn't the sternest test of golf, it's just the sternest test of driving. You miss a fairway, you're screwed and that brings everybody, regardless of his ability, down to the same level."

 

DAVID FEHERTY

 

 

 

Easiest of 4 to win? that is a ignorant comment!!!!! Champions the past 10 years....Els, Goosen twice, Woods twice, Payne Stewert,Geoff Ogilvy, Jim Furyk......Just to name a few.....you are right it is easy, thats why these crappy players all won!!!!!

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It's not my quote Gibby. Take it up with the ignorant Mr. Feherty, who was a Ryder Cupper and follows the tour for a living. Ignorant means "lacking knowledge". I suggest he is in fact quite informed. While you may disagree with his opinion, you and your multiple exclamation points should be more judicious in using the term ignorant.

 

By the way, three of the guys you mentioned have never won any other major than the US Open, like the legendary Lee Janzen and Andy North.

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It's not my quote Gibby. Take it up with the ignorant Mr. Feherty, who was a Ryder Cupper and follows the tour for a living. Ignorant means "lacking knowledge". I suggest he is in fact quite informed. While you may disagree with his opinion, you and your multiple exclamation points should be more judicious in using the term ignorant.

 

By the way, three of the guys you mentioned have never won any other major than the US Open, like the legendary Lee Janzen and Andy North.

 

 

 

I never mentioned Lee Janzen or Andy North.....As for the 3 players with "only u.s. opens" they are all currently top players in the world, and will undoubtly win more majors.....every one of your comments shows your golf knowledge! as you read this board you should see that your comments are follish.....read some of the preveious posts....the PGA is without a doubt the easiest major to win...

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Gibby,

 

Curtis Strange wants to advise you that there is nothing sure about Goosen, Ogilvie and Furyk winning more majors. My golf knowledge, which you seem to ridicule, tells me that there are few sure things in golf. You say that they will win without a doubt? That is a strong position. Goosen has shown few signs of life since Shinnecock. Why are you so sure.

 

I never said you mentioned Andy North or Janzen. Still, they are multiple US Open winners with otherwise pretty marginal careers. Most winners of multiple major have more to show for their careers.

 

The PGA has the stongest field of any major, even with the club pros. My wanting knowledge tells me that Arnold Palmer and Tom Watson didn't think it was so easy to win. Again, someone paid to follow golf, who has played at the highest level, made the comments. There is no doubt that the course setup is the toughest; that does not make it the toughest to win. I trust you understand that those are distinguishable. Carnoustie is the toughest set up I have ever seen - and the winner one of the weakest major champions since Jack Fleck.

 

By the way, bring back the exclamation marks if you must. They actually helped your grammar.

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Gibby,

 

Curtis Strange wants to advise you that there is nothing sure about Goosen, Ogilvie and Furyk winning more majors. My golf knowledge, which you seem to ridicule, tells me that there are few sure things in golf. You say that they will win without a doubt? That is a strong position. Goosen has shown few signs of life since Shinnecock. Why are you so sure.

 

I never said you mentioned Andy North or Janzen. Still, they are multiple US Open winners with otherwise pretty marginal careers. Most winners of multiple major have more to show for their careers.

 

The PGA has the stongest field of any major, even with the club pros. My wanting knowledge tells me that Arnold Palmer and Tom Watson didn't think it was so easy to win. Again, someone paid to follow golf, who has played at the highest level, made the comments. There is no doubt that the course setup is the toughest; that does not make it the toughest to win. I trust you understand that those are distinguishable. Carnoustie is the toughest set up I have ever seen - and the winner one of the weakest major champions since Jack Fleck.

 

By the way, bring back the exclamation marks if you must. They actually helped your grammar.

 

 

 

You are fairly new here, and it is obvious golf is not your cup of tea so I will be the bigger person and bid fairwell. I would love to continue this, but it is moving in a ugly direction....

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Look, it's nothing personal. I have no doubts about my knowledge. I am part of a minority who thinks the USGA setup is too much. That doesn't mean I want it to be like Tucson. However, people like David Feherty and Geoff Shackelford agree with me. Granted, Feherty is a depressive alcoholic who thought about doing himself in, so he has his problems. Maybe I should find some better support.

:shok:

 

When the USGA gets it right, as they did this time for the most part, I enjoy the event. I think they put too much of a premium on driving the ball in the fairway, but that is me. Augusta probably puts too much emphasis on high approach shots and putting.

 

The problem is that the USGA teeters on the brink of insanity at times, and when they mess up, it is ugly. That can lead to some fluke winners. Of course, I think the root of their problems is that they let the golf ball get crazy, and so the courses need to be set up like Fort Knox. If they had reigned in the ball 7 years ago or so, the course wouldn't play so severe. I like a severe test, but I also like the players to have a chance to recover through their skill and daring. That is why I have traditionally enjoyed the Masters as it so delicately balances risk and reward. A player could have a three shot lead on Sunday, shoot 69 and lose. Similarly, he could shoot a 72 while everyone around him gags and win.

 

I will stop riding you about the exclamation marks if you stop inferring that I am an idiot because "golf is not my cup of tea" and I am new around here, which has nothing to do with anything. :cheesy: :cheesy:

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You are fairly new here, and it is obvious golf is not your cup of tea so I will be the bigger person and bid fairwell. I would love to continue this, but it is moving in a ugly direction....

 

Every time someone claims to be the bigger person, they usually were the ones instigating the trouble to begin with, and always come off as the smaller. The thread is moving in an ugly direction because you're doing little more than making blanket disagreements and making personal attacks and subtle-ish digs. Knock it off.

:hi:
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Well I have to say I really enjoyed this year's US open! What a great event and a real test of golf.

 

However, I do have to agree with the comments about driving. Any wayward driving is punished to the point where you simply cannot hit the green out of the rough. I am not sure it should quite so severe, but it was definitely fun to watch.

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