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2016 U.S. Women's Open


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I just don't understand that line of thought. You say without video no problems exist. Suppose there is a rule to not use video (even though recorded by Fox) and Anna Nordqvist went on to win. Do you think Fox will mothball that video? Of course not. That video does exist and it will be shown. In all likelihood it be shown during the playoff and if not, it will certainly be shown at the end of play. Videos showing rules violations are not going away no matter how much some want them to. Not only would wins be tarnished and rules ignored, true champions will be deprived of the victories they honestly achieved.

 

Happens all the time in international Football. Nothing new. It will probably be improved at some point but it's a slow process introducing goal-line technology etc.

 

As said before, tennis probably has it right just now. You have a certain number of challenges and play is stopped when you watch the evidence. Unfortunately wouldn't work too well in golf since the players are often not close enough to actually see what's happening, and not everything is on video.

 

International Snooker works very well on the "honour" system. Players are quick to say if they have touched a ball.

 

What is completely unfair is "selective" video evidence that applies to some players and not others. That's manifestly unjust and just plain wrong.

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It's just not in the spirit of the game to call penalty on something a player cant detect. So either put everyone on HD camera's or dont.

 

For over $800,000 the winner should expect some scrutiny.

 

How about for the 10th place finisher or the 25th place finisher? Should they expect scrutiny?

 

Had the USGA official who was with the group noticed it and called it that's one thing. But an arbitrary third party?

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I just don't understand that line of thought. You say without video no problems exist. Suppose there is a rule to not use video (even though recorded by Fox) and Anna Nordqvist went on to win. Do you think Fox will mothball that video? Of course not. That video does exist and it will be shown. In all likelihood it be shown during the playoff and if not, it will certainly be shown at the end of play. Videos showing rules violations are not going away no matter how much some want them to. Not only would wins be tarnished and rules ignored, true champions will be deprived of the victories they honestly achieved.

 

Happens all the time in international Football. Nothing new. It will probably be improved at some point but it's a slow process introducing goal-line technology etc.

 

As said before, tennis probably has it right just now. You have a certain number of challenges and play is stopped when you watch the evidence. Unfortunately wouldn't work too well in golf since the players are often not close enough to actually see what's happening, and not everything is on video.

 

International Snooker works very well on the "honour" system. Players are quick to say if they have touched a ball.

 

What is completely unfair is "selective" video evidence that applies to some players and not others. That's manifestly unjust and just plain wrong.

 

Golf is not easily compared to other sports like football where officials enforce the rules. I do agree with the unfairness of video only being used when recording the leaders. But that is the reality of how we observe golf in today's world. We can't film every move of every player. I just don't think we can ignore rules violations regardless of how they are revealed. Once we start ignoring any rule for any reason, we have a loss of integrity in the competition.

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I just don't understand that line of thought. You say without video no problems exist. Suppose there is a rule to not use video (even though recorded by Fox) and Anna Nordqvist went on to win. Do you think Fox will mothball that video? Of course not. That video does exist and it will be shown. In all likelihood it be shown during the playoff and if not, it will certainly be shown at the end of play. Videos showing rules violations are not going away no matter how much some want them to. Not only would wins be tarnished and rules ignored, true champions will be deprived of the victories they honestly achieved.

 

Happens all the time in international Football. Nothing new. It will probably be improved at some point but it's a slow process introducing goal-line technology etc.

 

As said before, tennis probably has it right just now. You have a certain number of challenges and play is stopped when you watch the evidence. Unfortunately wouldn't work too well in golf since the players are often not close enough to actually see what's happening, and not everything is on video.

 

International Snooker works very well on the "honour" system. Players are quick to say if they have touched a ball.

 

What is completely unfair is "selective" video evidence that applies to some players and not others. That's manifestly unjust and just plain wrong.

 

Golf is not easily compared to other sports like football where officials enforce the rules. I do agree with the unfairness of video only being used when recording the leaders. But that is the reality of how we observe golf in today's world. We can't film every move of every player. I just don't think we can ignore rules violations regardless of how they are revealed. Once we start ignoring any rule for any reason, we have a loss of integrity in the competition.

 

I think the integrity of the competition when agents that are not involved in it(fans, cameraman, etc) can effect the outcome. I can see using video review when a player, caddy or tournament official wants to review/confirm a situation but the ability of people not a part of the competition being able to call in infractions is idiotic.

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http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/usga-taking-steps-prevent-rules-controversy/

 

on the heels of Men's US Open controversy, funny that usga preemptively took a stance that resulted in another controversy

 

Well, "it's been just 17 days....."..... Some of the folks have been so busy they haven't had a chance to reply via email yet.....

 

 

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It's just not in the spirit of the game to call penalty on something a player cant detect. So either put everyone on HD camera's or dont.

 

For over $800,000 the winner should expect some scrutiny.

 

How about for the 10th place finisher or the 25th place finisher? Should they expect scrutiny?

 

If TV is going to be used in the future like this, I do not understand the need to have same attention to everybody on the field. Some will get it (the attention/scrutiny), the better you are and/or higher on the leaderboard you are you will get it. It comes with the job.

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What an absolute sh1tshow. Unless every competitor's shot is subject to the same level of scrutiny, these hi-def super-slomo, super-closeup, camera shots should NEVER be used to affect the outcome of a golf tournament. And then to compound it by directly impacting the strategy of the competitors with the staggered announcement. Can the USGA contract out the running of their tournaments in the future? Thinking maybe the parent volunteers at the local K-12 school running a sports day can do better. Oh and USGA, can you please send your president to Betty Ford already. Does everyone who blamed the audio system at the men's US Open still think Murphy is just easily disorientated? ;)

 

+

USGAmateur is the most appropriate name for the way they're conducting themselves...dishonorable conduct in a sport ruled by honor.

And yes, that Pres. needs to give up...2x in succession blowing the name...Get the name right for god's sake...what else does she have to do?...nothing...nada...

 

You'd think this was strike two for her but chances are she slipped and slurred her way through the presentations for the Latin America Amateur, women's and men's four ball championships, and the Curtis Cup (or every USGA-run championship this year).

 

Imagine if Ariya Jutanugarn won the thing?

 

"Congratulations Ahh, ahem... Arrr... Chew... ahem... Congratulations to our winner Amy Johnson!"

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

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The USGA needs to review every shot that all of the players make or create a new T.V. Rule. This is becoming a joke.

 

I assume since this is a play off every shot either player hit was recorded on HD.

 

A cameraman isn't an official and isn't required to abide by any ethical or conduct rules that apply to officials.

 

Let's just say the cameraman is a friend of the golfer or has some other vested interest - what's to stop him erasing the tape? We may know "what's there" on video, but we also need to know "what's not there". Remember your Perry Mason - "the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth".... "Part of the truth" in a tournament isn't "the whole truth" of what happens on or off camera.

 

As you can see, this is full of holes.

 

If you want camera evidence it would have - at the very least - to be an official cameraman of the USGA who has signed some kind of ethical requirement. And competitors would also have to agree to the use of camera evidence in some way - as models do with release forms.

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On-course referees are there for a reason, just like in other sporting competitions. An NBA official misses a foul or traveling violation in Game 7 of the Finals? Oh well. An NFL official misses an offsides or holding penalty in the Super Bowl? Oh well also.

 

You can't have fans, cameramen, and other UNOFFICIAL referees make calls. Imagine if a spectator was allowed to tell an NBA referee that he thinks he saw a moving screen and made him review it on video...

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On-course referees are there for a reason, just like in other sporting competitions. An NBA official misses a foul or traveling violation in Game 7 of the Finals? Oh well. An NFL official misses an offsides or holding penalty in the Super Bowl? Oh well also.

 

You can't have fans, cameramen, and other UNOFFICIAL referees make calls. Imagine if a spectator was allowed to tell an NBA referee that he thinks he saw a moving screen and made him review it on video...

some really great points there.
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On-course referees are there for a reason, just like in other sporting competitions. An NBA official misses a foul or traveling violation in Game 7 of the Finals? Oh well. An NFL official misses an offsides or holding penalty in the Super Bowl? Oh well also.

 

You can't have fans, cameramen, and other UNOFFICIAL referees make calls. Imagine if a spectator was allowed to tell an NBA referee that he thinks he saw a moving screen and made him review it on video...

 

More calls are missed than made in the NFL and the NBA has different rules for the superstars, both have little integrity.

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i think the leading golfers in a tournament can/should expect more scrutiny than the rest of the field, mainly because the leaders are going to be followed by tv and get more screen time...i have no problem with that at all, just as i have no problem with the rest of the field NOT being scrutinized by hd video, cuz i dont want to watch them, anyway! and i bet 99% of viewers probably feel the same way...i dont think it's unfair at all...just like an important baseball/football game will have extra cameras recording the movement of every atom of everything that's happening...that's fine, as long as they get it right...remember the old days when an ump/official made a bad call, and it drove you nuts cuz they'd show the replay? now they have systems in place to get the calls right...golf is a bit different, in that the match keeps going, then the competitors are notified somewhere down the road, which is fine...the issue here really is not that anna should be penalized for the infraction (which should only be one stroke, imho) but that the usga gave a distinct advantage to the other competitor, who was then able to change her shot...that's what blows...or sucks...or whatever...cuz it does...the usga must be run by some people who are not very smart about these things...

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I think the USGA should have all winners of any USGA championship prior to the advent of super slow motion and electron microscopes, return their trophies and be stricken from the rolls.

 

There was no way that Anna new she violated the rule, and that microscopic piece of sand that moved obviously gave her a huge advantage on her approach shot.

 

A ball on the green moves a fraction of a millimeter and a penalty is invoked. Obviously, that movement of the golf ball gives the player a massive advantage when putting.

 

The USGA needs to invoke a bit of common sense in the rules of golf. They also need to find a president who also drinks less and at least knows the name of the player who won the damn tournament.

 

I gave up my membership to the Keystone Cops of golf when they initiated the groove rule. Some subsequent rules only reinforce that decision. And these last two controversies...

 

What a gaggle of self-important idiots.

 

Brushing a blade of grass? A ball moving a micrometer? A tiny grain of sand? Please. No wonder non-golfers who see these kinds of things on TV make jokes about golf.

 

If it is the intent of the USGA to drive people away from golf, or not have people take it up to begin with, they are doing an outstanding job. And that goes double for President Dolores Murphy.

 

Parroting the angst over the DJ ruling doesn't really work here. How does this drive people away from golf? That is golf. That's the rule. Zach Johnson skimmed the water with his back swing when he hit out of some shallows earlier this season. That's the rule. You don't get to be comfortable in a hazard. She is to police herself.

 

This is nothing like the oakmont ruling. If you don't want to play by the rules when you hack around then don't, but don't tell me the usga should be looking the other way here.

 

If you don't like what I have to say, that's fine. But to presume I don't follow the rules of golf, or that I am a hack, is rather presumptuous on your part.

 

Was speaking more of the universal "you" not you specifically. my point was simply that the usgas strict compliance doesn't force weekend warriors to be as strict should they so choose

 

One cannot keep an accurate handicap if the rules aren't followed, no matter how nonsensical some of the rules may be.

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On-course referees are there for a reason, just like in other sporting competitions. An NBA official misses a foul or traveling violation in Game 7 of the Finals? Oh well. An NFL official misses an offsides or holding penalty in the Super Bowl? Oh well also.

 

You can't have fans, cameramen, and other UNOFFICIAL referees make calls. Imagine if a spectator was allowed to tell an NBA referee that he thinks he saw a moving screen and made him review it on video...

 

 

Exactly. Exactly. Do you know how many college football plays and penalties are called wrong or missed ? How many times we yell at the tv. Do they let me call in and get it overturned ? Hell no. And they shouldn't. If the walking official or playing partners in that group do not see the infraction and the player him /herself doesn't call it on them selves then the infraction doesn't exist in my eyes. Not in a way that should be called. Our game is/was designed to be self policed this way. Instant replay and the like ruins it at its very core.

 

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I'm betting 2:1 on a blown rules call by the USGA during the tournament. If the rules call is on Petterson or Kerr we will have our first USGA fatality in an event.

 

While not a blown rules call, imagine if Kerr would have had the penalty called on her.

She would have reacted very similar to Anna imo. The proof was in the video.

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I finally got this off my phone today... thought it sums up Fox's USGA experiment nicely:

 

 

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

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What happened was the most equitable occurence. The USGA got the ruling out asap regardless of the situation in the field. If they have to analyze when to give the information then it becomes complicated.

 

For those that argue tv time and equality the only solution there is to cancel tv coverage all together.

 

Sad it happened and ruined a dramatic moment but once rules changed for such moments instead of for the other hundreds of thousands of times when I or other golfers may have unintentionally cleared a small patch of sand behind my ball in a hazard which MAY allow my club to get better contact then our rules are in trouble.

 

It's a hazard. It's supposed to be a hard shot.

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What happened was the most equitable occurence. The USGA got the ruling out asap regardless of the situation in the field. If they have to analyze when to give the information then it becomes complicated.

 

For those that argue tv time and equality the only solution there is to cancel tv coverage all together.

 

Sad it happened and ruined a dramatic moment but once rules changed for such moments instead of for the other hundreds of thousands of times when I or other golfers may have unintentionally cleared a small patch of sand behind my ball in a hazard which MAY allow my club to get better contact then our rules are in trouble.

 

It's a hazard. It's supposed to be a hard shot.

 

Informing the player getting the penalty after she hit her 3rd shot and informing her competitor before she hit her 3rd shot is your idea of "equitable"?

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

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So when? It was as soon as they decided regardless of the player's positions.

 

If they have to take into account players' positions and standings then it will always be a judgement call.

 

By doing it regardless of situation it becomes equitable.

Um, they could've stopped before they even teed off on 18. They knew they were reviewing it, hold play for 5 minutes. Then make the decision.

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