These long game and short game debates are ridiculous, IMO

[MonteScheinblum]

It's as ridiculous as asking what's more important to survival, food or water?

What's more important in losing weight, excercise or diet?

 

Not going to be successful for long without some of both.

 

Everyone always assumed that since I was a long drive champion, I didn't make the tour because I had a bad short game and was a bad putter.

 

Every person who ever was snide about drive for show and putt for dough, lost money to me on the putting green.

 

I had a very good short game and while not the greatest putter, I was good enough.

 

I was inconsistent off the tee and with wedge distance control. The question was not which one I needed to fix to take the next step. I needed to get a lot better at one or the other, or get a little better at both. Didn't happen.

 

As an instructor who sees every level of golfer every day it's pretty obvious where the differences are. Statistical outliers and anomalies aside, here is what observation will tell you. There are some great short gamers that achieve a higher level in spite of how bad they hit it. There are some great ball strikers who achieved a higher level, in spite of poor short games.

 

The misnomer is the level of badness. Vijay is known as a horrible putter, but would likely stand up well against the best putter at your club. Brad Faxon has a rep (well deserved) that he hits it poorly, but he would line up quite nicely against the best ball striker at most clubs as far as getting in position to score.

 

Those two examples are of skill levels that are below par at the PGA tour level, but not golf in general. I have seen them both in person. I have played with Vijay, he is far from a terrible putter, he's just not Crenshaw.

 

I was one shot back at a Web.com event sitting at 13 under through 3 days. I had a reporter ask me if it was frustrating to not be able to make any putts. This is the kind of thinking that distracts people from making their own games better. Adherence to myths and cliches.

 

 

The difference between golfers of different levels is how well you hit the ball. The difference between golfers at the same level is how good your short game is.

 

The difference between an 18 and a 10 is ball striking, pure and simple. However, bring me two 10's and I'll bet on the one that gets it done around the greens better.

 

Good short game days make you shoot your low scores, bad ball striking days are where you shoot high. Which is more important?

 

Now if you want to to sell me people don't allocate the appropriate amount of time to short game practice, I will buy that...but their long game practice is allocated just as poorly.

 

You position yourself to score with long game and you score with short game. How can you say one is bigger than the other?

 

You want to be a better golfer, hit it better. You want to shoot lower, tighten up that short game. How's that for twisted logic?...but it's true.

 

Practicing is nothing more than time passing excercise, unless you're doing something productive, so just saying you need to practice short game and putting more to get better is not the answer. Golf is hard and getting to the next level, no matter what level you're at, is very hard.

 

These debates are looking for simple answers and there are none. It's a hard and complex game, like life. Saying if you made more money, you'd be happier...or that if you could just find the right women, you'd need nothing else.

 

The simple answer is there is no right or wrong way of doing things. All you can do is try and be better against yourself.

 

For some it will be tightening the swing, for others it will be distance control on pitches, others will be better face contact on the putter...for some, it's just a plain hopeless quest in search of some mythical short cut to better golf.

[oikos1]

I'll drink to that and I'll blow something up in your honor tonight!

 

Tomorrow a new ridiculous thread will begin and the circle of life continues...

[Guia]

I agree. The local club player is no where near as good at any aspect of the game as a tour player. Everyone (!) on the tour has a serious game. I wish I had the game of the last ranked tour pro.

[MadGolfer76]

I think if I made more money, Monte, I would be much happier. ;)

 

(Could work on my ballstriking short game putting golf game more).

[BdaGolfer]

I'll answer the first two questions (water, and diet) and let the rest speak for itself :-)

Good post.

[MonteScheinblum]

I'll answer the first two questions (water, and diet) and let the rest speak for itself :-)

Good post.

 

I would last a lot longer eating foods high in water content, than just drinking water (insert sticks tongue out emoticon).

[MonteScheinblum]

I agree. The local club player is no where near as good at any aspect of the game as a tour player. Everyone (!) on the tour has a serious game. I wish I had the game of the last ranked tour pro.

 

If you took the worst driver on tour, the guy with the highest hole proximity from the fairway, the lowest in scrambling and the guy that gives the most strokes away putting and had them be part of some Frankenstein alternate shot monster....you'd still have a damn good golfer.

[Thoughtful Hacker]

The great swing instructor Percy Boomer said "Drive as you chip and putt. Putt and chip as you drive."

A 300 yard drive is just a longer version of 3 ft down hill breaking putt! lol

[glk]

According to strokes gained bowditch is the monster. 200 off tee, 200 tee to green. 199 approach. 137 around green. 52 putting. And 200 overall strokes gained. Give him a couple more months and he could be last in all. He 's taking it surprisingly well in public - his tweet on drug test was hilarious.

 

Also 200 in driver accuracy. 199 in gir. 200 in prox. 197 in scrambling. Putting is only thing holding together

 

199 in scoring. 74.

 

And yes folks would line up for his game. I would. Hope he finds it.

[m111]

According to strokes gained bowditch is the monster. 200 off tee, 200 tee to green. 199 approach. 137 around green. 52 putting. And 200 overall strokes gained. Give him a couple more months and he could be last in all. He 's taking it surprisingly well in public - his tweet on drug test was hilarious.

 

Also 200 in driver accuracy. 199 in gir. 200 in prox. 197 in scrambling. Putting is only thing holding together

 

199 in scoring. 74.

 

And yes folks would line up for his game. I would. Hope he finds it.

 

also weighs 200 pounds

[Hawkeye77]

According to strokes gained bowditch is the monster. 200 off tee, 200 tee to green. 199 approach. 137 around green. 52 putting. And 200 overall strokes gained. Give him a couple more months and he could be last in all. He 's taking it surprisingly well in public - his tweet on drug test was hilarious.

 

Also 200 in driver accuracy. 199 in gir. 200 in prox. 197 in scrambling. Putting is only thing holding together

 

199 in scoring. 74.

 

And yes folks would line up for his game. I would. Hope he finds it.

 

also weighs 200 pounds

 

Then I'm beating a tour player at something.

[Bre9327]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

[MonteScheinblum]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

[Bre9327]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

Doubt you do in general if everything else is that bad, but that kind of wildness and poor iron play and all the trouble and penalties that come with it won't be overcome by a good short game.

Oh believe me, its bad. Now I dont a have a tour level short game but probably a 2-5 handicap. Short game always came easier because its more touch and controlling trajectory and spin compared to full swing.

[Bre9327]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

[Hawkeye77]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

Doubt you do in general if everything else is that bad, but that kind of wildness and poor iron play and all the trouble and penalties that come with it won't be overcome by a good short game.

Oh believe me, its bad. Now I dont a have a tour level short game but probably a 2-5 handicap. Short game always came easier because its more touch and controlling trajectory and spin compared to full swing.

 

LOL, I deleted mine because I thought Monte's was more to the point. Have to believe, unless your chipping and short pitching is really unorthodox, you don't have good ballstriking lurking in there just waiting to be unleashed.

[MonteScheinblum]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

[Gamble Gamble]

Good thread. I get sick of how myopic these "short game is everything" threads have been. My approach game is light years BEHIND my driving (thanks to your clinic last year my driving is much better), chipping, pitching and putting.

 

Stevie Wonder could chip and putt for Dustin Johnson when they get close to the green and still beat me by 17 shots.

 

___________________________

Edit: I agree with the idea that your ball striking sets your main scoring window, but your short game can keep your scores either at the ceiling (highest part of that range) or the floor (lowest part of the range.

 

 

____________________________

For example: (the names in this are not based on anyone in golf reality)

 

Yanette Garcia has the ball striking of an average 3 handicap but the short game of an average 9 handicap.

Jen Selter has a 7 handicap's ball striking but the short game of a scratch handicap

 

Yanette's ball striking scoring range is 69-78 but her poor short game will keep her towards the upper end of those scores leading to a 75-78

Jen Selter's ball striking scoring range is 75-84 but her good short game will keep her towards the lower numbers from 75-78.

 

 

 

 

More importantly, look both of those people up on instagram.

 

 

You're welcome.

[Mad_Lobber]

Hypothetically, if you only had a great long game(including wedges) and you hit every green, then you would never need a short game...

[iteachgolf]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

 

Why I make sure my shirt game is on point when I play

[NoTalentLefty]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

 

Why I make sure my shirt game is on point when I play

 

What shirt do you game? Nike ? Under Armour? Or do you mix?

[Hawkeye77]

Monte used to have great shorts game.

[Thoughtful Hacker]

There are 10 times more good ball strikers than good short game players. Short game is more like art require feel, touch, imagination, balance, rhythm, concentration, sensitivity, and strong nerves.

There are few hundreds of thousands tour level long drivers among ams. Not many ams have tour level short game!

[BenHoganSlam1953]

I'll answer the first two questions (water, and diet) and let the rest speak for itself :-)

Good post.

 

I would last a lot longer eating foods high in water content, than just drinking water (insert sticks tongue out emoticon).

 

That is a brilliant reply - two birds with one stone - can never beat that logic.

[BenHoganSlam1953]

There are 10 times more good ball strikers than good short game players. Short game is more like art require feel, touch, imagination, balance, rhythm, concentration, sensitivity, and strong nerves.

There are few hundreds of thousands tour level long drivers among ams. Not many ams have tour level short game!

 

Interesting stats - what is your source?

[Bre9327]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

 

Why I make sure my shirt game is on point when I play

Ha Ha I was going to make a smartass comment about that but someone beat me to it, lol.

[Thoughtful Hacker]

There are 10 times more good ball strikers than good short game players. Short game is more like art require feel, touch, imagination, balance, rhythm, concentration, sensitivity, and strong nerves.

There are few hundreds of thousands tour level long drivers among ams. Not many ams have tour level short game!

 

Interesting stats - what is your source?

 

That's my estimate based on the long drivers I have seen on Publinks in my city.

[MonteScheinblum]

One or more pro level skills in every sport can be seen in the general public.

 

Lots of people can:

 

1. Make a higher number of free throws than the average NBA player. That's a short game equivalent skill in the NBA that matches your criteria.

2. Catch a football on a zipped pass.

3. Fling a hockey puck into the corner of the net.

 

The fact remains, the difference between skill levels as a whole is ball striking.

 

[johnrobison]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

I never thought of it like that. So, do you mean tucked-in vs un-tucked? Are you flashing your navel to your opponent in their back swing? I admit I don't really study the shirt game so apologize if the questions are naive.

[MonteScheinblum]

But what if you hit you hit the ball off the tee three fairways over and hit your irons like barkley? But have a decent short game?

 

If you play against another 42 handicap, I'd bet on you. Said that already.

I agree with that but a decent to somewhat decent short game can take you only so far. You have to be somewhat near the fairway off the tee and somewhere near the green to be an ok golfer.

 

Right...that's what I said. The difference between different skill levels is how you hit it....the difference writhin skill levels is often shirt game.

I never thought of it like that. So, do you mean tucked-in vs un-tucked? Are you flashing your navel to your opponent in their back swing? I admit I don't spend a lot of time on shirt game so apologize if the questions are naive.

 

Your next lesson just cost you an extra $25.