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Mickelson's place in history


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I taught myself to throw left-handed by throwing two tennis balls at once. When you throw with both arms at the same time, the non-dominant arm copies the dominant one. Eventually, I was able to throw left-handed by itself. One day, I was playing catch with my neighbor's son. I'd never been able to put a spiral on a football (unless end over end counts). On one left-handed throw, there was the spiral. Reversing the process, I looked at what I was doing differently left-handed. It seemed my grip was softer and my body more involved (I tend to get lazy right-handed, just 'arming' everything). I applied the same to my right-handed throw, and voilà, there was a spiral. Who knew?

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Phil is right handed.

 

I knew guys who threw righty and hit lefty.

 

Very rare is to throw lefty and hit rughty.

 

Drunk

 

Whats the topic again?

 

I actually knew about Phil because I am ambidextrous. But I prefer to write left handed while doing almost everything else with my right. (Other than eating that is) I was wondering if he was truly left-handed and read about his story a few years back. He can actually also play golf right handed - just not as well. I saw him putting right handed at Sawgrass - I think he was just fooling around with another player's putter. The article I read said something about how he will hit right handed now and then and had thought about putting a right handed wedge into the bag to use on shots where a lefty stance isn't possible. Talk about an advantage. (Don't think he has ever done it to my knowledge)

 

As for me and sports, I can bowl with both hands and can actually play golf lefty but just feels odd to me so don't pursue it. I used to be able to pitch lefty years ago and one of my coaches made me change for some reason. Something about "being wild". Didn't matter - ended up playing third or left field anyway once I got older and by then I had gotten used to throwing right handed. But what was funny was when, in the outfield, I would wear two gloves because I could catch equally well with both. Freaked some people out seeing my sprint over and reaching up for the catch, tossing the other glove off, and throwing the ball back into my cutoff man. Good times. Too bad I wasn't all that good - might have made for a nice novelty in the college ranks but alas I was quite literally "out of my league" by the time I got into varsity level. Not enough practice I guess.

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I'm just curious to see how many years he can keep it going. He has been very durable with no serious injuries. Long and loose swing has helped a lot with that. Who knows, maybe he has a few more major victories left in him. Would be amazing if he could win one after age 50.

 

I know guys want to keep going but I wish more of the old timers would start playing on the champions tour more often

 

when trevino went to the champions tour he was the leading money winner in golf that year

 

Phil Davis Ernie and VJ duking it out in a few years would be great for the sport

 

there are only so many sneads and floyds of the world

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Mickelson is top 10 all time and goat lefty.

 

To all the folks out there who insist Phil is not yet top 10 all time, name the 10 who had greater careers.

 

Outside of Bobby Jones, who is kind of a mythical figure in golf, you really can't include any golfer who played prior to WW2 because golf was just so undeveloped in the 30's and 20's. I mean, who the heck did Walter Hagen have to beat in 1923?

 

So, in chronological order, the greatest titans in golf history, starting with Bobby Jones, would be 1) Jones 2) Nelson 3) Snead 4) Hogan 5) Palmer 6) Player 7) Nicklaus 8) Watson 9) Woods and a battle for 10th among Trevino, Ballesteros and Phil. Of those three, Phil must be considered the greater, even if he fails to win major championship number six tomorrow.

 

Although major championship accomplishments seem to carry the most weight in these discussions, the entirety of a golfer's accomplishments must be considered. When you consider how long Phil has been among the game's elites, and how deep the competition has been in his era, with his win totals on the world's #1 tour, there can be no doubt that Phil is already top 10 all time.

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6 gets him closer to his pal Tom Watson!

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I agree with the short course statement but I've always wondered, shouldn't that not mean anything? I always felt like if you were a long hitter you would have an even bigger advantage on a short course. Say old guy hits driver and 8 iron on a hole well for the long hitter it may 3 wood and a wedge. Shouldn't they be better with less club??

 

Well that may be true, but taking the longest club oput of the longest players' hand effectively reduces their Strokes Gained advantage from the tee and tee to green. The difference between and 8i and wedge is a lot smaller than the difference between a mid iron and a long iron hybrid, as it relates to prox to hole and srokes gained and such as.

I have always heard Phil is right-handed and that he learned his swing from mirroring his dad. (If that's true, it makes you wonder what kind of parent thinks that's a good idea. Worked, though.)

Well yeah, e'rybody knows that but, why would he not count as a left handed player?

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6 majors ties him with Trevino and Faldo. Pretty elite company. Phil has more wins than Trevino by a good margin, while Faldo has a bunch of euro wins and very few US wins.

 

So in my opinion it moves him to another level. Just below players like Watson, Palmer and ahead of players like Lee, Seve and probably Faldo.

 

1. Jack

2. Tiger

3. Jones

4. Hogan

5. Sneed

6. Vardon

7. Hagen

8. Player

9. Palmer

10. Watson

 

 

You can debate the order of my list, this is not the place for that but I think Phil belongs in the top 15 if he wins alongside players like

 

11. Phil

13. Faldo

13. Nelson

14. Trevino

15. Seve

 

If he doesn't win he is top 20 all-time.

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It would just further cement him as the second-best player of the "Tiger era" IMO.

 

The "Tiger Era" is 8 years in the dust, and Phil has won two majors and seven other events in that time, so I don't think that description is the most apt.

 

In the last 8 years, tiger has 18 wins...

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6 majors ties him with Trevino and Faldo. Pretty elite company. Phil has more wins than Trevino by a good margin, while Faldo has a bunch of euro wins and very few US wins.

 

So in my opinion it moves him to another level. Just below players like Watson, Palmer and ahead of players like Lee, Seve and probably Faldo.

 

1. Jack

2. Tiger

3. Jones

4. Hogan

5. Sneed

6. Vardon

7. Hagen

8. Player

9. Palmer

10. Watson

 

 

You can debate the order of my list, this is not the place for that but I think Phil belongs in the top 15 if he wins alongside players like

 

11. Phil

13. Faldo

13. Nelson

14. Trevino

15. Seve

 

If he doesn't win he is top 20 all-time.

 

Nelson retired and was still on his game at the age of 34

 

he is top ten alltime

 

people forget that they only played usually 3 majors a year back then and some were cancelled during the war

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6 majors ties him with Trevino and Faldo. Pretty elite company. Phil has more wins than Trevino by a good margin, while Faldo has a bunch of euro wins and very few US wins.

 

So in my opinion it moves him to another level. Just below players like Watson, Palmer and ahead of players like Lee, Seve and probably Faldo.

 

1. Jack

2. Tiger

3. Jones

4. Hogan

5. Sneed

6. Vardon

7. Hagen

8. Player

9. Palmer

10. Watson

 

 

You can debate the order of my list, this is not the place for that but I think Phil belongs in the top 15 if he wins alongside players like

 

11. Phil

13. Faldo

13. Nelson

14. Trevino

15. Seve

 

If he doesn't win he is top 20 all-time.

 

Nelson retired and was still on his game at the age of 34

 

he is top ten alltime

 

people forget that they only played usually 3 majors a year back then and some were cancelled during the war

 

Lord Byron also curb stomped Hogan pretty much every single time they played...

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if things continue as is, i think this improves phil's legacy even if he comes in 2d. great tourney at 46 just extends how long hes been a huge figure in golf, even more so if he wins of course. where in history? there will always be debate and did play in a deeper era than a lot of the other greats so he could still compare favorably to some guys w more majors, and majors arent everything so he has plenty of tour wins too (hes definitely got the edge for getting paid the most while being 2d best). it will probably also depend on how some of the young ones behind him do over time. mcilroy w four majors already will likely end up w more than phil (and likely at augusta for a career slam) so how many he gets total may influence how phil's record is viewed as people compare number of majors now in deeper fields vs majors in the past. similarly where guys like spieth and day end up will matter too. we dont know they will pass phil in majors. the fewer people that win several majors over time, the better phils record will look.

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[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1468767197' post='13931308'

 

6 majors ties him with Trevino and Faldo. Pretty elite company. Phil has more wins than Trevino by a good margin, while Faldo has a bunch of euro wins and very few US wins.

 

So in my opinion it moves him to another level. Just below players like Watson, Palmer and ahead of players like Lee, Seve and probably Faldo.

 

1. Jack

2. Tiger

3. Jones

4. Hogan

5. Sneed

6. Vardon

7. Hagen

8. Player

9. Palmer

10. Watson

 

 

You can debate the order of my list, this is not the place for that but I think Phil belongs in the top 15 if he wins alongside players like

 

11. Phil

13. Faldo

13. Nelson

14. Trevino

15. Seve

 

If he doesn't win he is top 20 all-time.

 

Nelson retired and was still on his game at the age of 34

 

he is top ten alltime

 

people forget that they only played usually 3 majors a year back then and some were cancelled during the war

 

Lord Byron also curb stomped Hogan pretty much every single time they played...

 

Didn't really want to start that debate in this thread. My list is certainly open to debate. I don't disagree Byron in his prime was as good as anyone ever, but I am really talking about career achievements here.

 

I mean Mr. Nelson at his best may have been as good as Tiger and I know WW2 cut some prime years but he called it quits early and his career was what it was.

 

I would put him as the #1 gentleman of all time in the history of the game. A finer human being may have never walked the fairways.

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GOAT rankings in golf is so subjective. The Majors are EXTREMELY important and I don't want to diminish them but at the same time some people sometimes just put a bit too much into the # won when it pertains to rankings. For example.... is what Phil Mickelson did this week shooting 63 to open and 65 in the final round any less of a golf accomplishment than someone like maybe Ernie Els a few years ago who back doored one with Adam Scott's collapse. I'm not taking anything away from Els but Phil finishing runner up today did nothing but continue to bolster his hall of fame career IMO.

 

For me... these are the things I look at:

 

1. Peformance in Majors and the biggest events.

Obviously wins are most important but also how consistent were you. Runner-ups and Top 5s and Top 10s show that you consistently put yourself there for a chance to win.

 

2. Winning other events.

Majors are like exclamation points to me. What else did you do? Take Colin Montgomery who has everything else from here on this list except #1. That's why he's still HOF.

 

2. Longevity of career.

Were you able to sustain championship level golf over a period of time or one run. A good example is Padraig Harrington. Not taking anything away from his career but I'd rank someone with 2-4 wins who was around over a longer period of time over him who won 3 in a 2-year span and hasn't factored in anything since.

 

3. How dominant were you in your prime.

Were you ever #1 or the best ever. Or among the top 2 or 3 players in the world for a period of time. How long of a time did you sustain that dominance.

 

4. How did you impact the game

This is highly subjective but just that "other it factor". There is no doubt that Arnold Palmer and Tiger Woods affected the game like no one else. That does mean something.

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I'd have to make my Top 10 of all time like:

 

1. Jack Nicklaus

Had it all. 18 majors. Career grand slam. Dominance. Longevity.

Negative: None

 

2. Tiger Woods

A very close 2nd. 14 majors (2nd). Career grand slam. 2nd in wins all time. Long career. Dominant in his prime. Changed the game.

Negative: None

 

3. Ben Hogan

4th all time in PGA Tour wins and majors (9). Career grand slam. Rebuilt his game after tragic accident. Longevity.

Negative: None

 

4. Bobby Jones

7 majors (really 13 as the Majors were different in his era. Played in 31 and won 13). Best of his era. Won both the US Open and US Amateur and British Open and Amateur in the same year. The first American golf star.

Negative: None. Short career and didn't turn professional (so no PGA Championships which wasn't as big of an event as the US Amateur during his time)

 

5. Gary Player

4th all time in majors (9). Career grand slam. International player. Played against some of the best (Nicklaus, Palmer, etc.)

Negative: None

 

6. Arnold Palmer

7 majors. 5th most all-time wins on PGA Tour. Grew the game and brought it into TV era. Maybe most popular player of all time. Helped resurrect the Open Championship and got top Americans going again.

Negative: Never won the PGA Championship.

 

7. Walter Hagan

3rd most ever majors with 11 (and Masters wasn't in existence). Changed the game for being a golf professional (looked down upon mostly in his era and couldn't even use the clubhouse originally). Arguably the best of his generation (with Jones).

 

8. Sam Snead

Most PGA victories of all time. 7 majors. Long career.

Negative: Never won the US Open (the premier event of his generation for an American)

 

9. Tom Watson

6th All time in Majors and 11th all time in Tour wins. Longevity (Runner up in Open at 59!!!). Competed against the best in the history of the game.

Negative: Never won the PGA Championship

 

10. Gene Sarazen

39 all time tour wins and 7 majors. Achieved the grand slam.

Negative: None. Was he as good as Jones and Hagen whom he competed against.

 

the rest:

Byron Nelson

Harry Vardon

Lee Trevino

Phil Mickelson

Seve Ballesteros

Nick Faldo

Billy Casper

 

Random notes about comparing GOAT lists...

-- PGA and Open used to be at same time.

-- Americans for a period didn't go regularly for the Open Championship.

-- The Amateur events played a bigger role up until the 50s and 60s.

-- Western Open used to be considered a 'major' which many on this list won (modern day Players Championship status maybe)

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I don't want to belabor an earlier point, but I wonder what many of those making all-time lists would say about Phil if he had won the PGA in '01 and today, where he shot the third and T4 lowest aggregate scores in major championship history.

 

Phil is my all-time favorite player. I was pulling for him hard today and he delivered! Unfortunately for him and fortunately for Henrik and golf in general he delivered an all-time great round. Like I said earlier there is nothing Phil did today for me but move UP on my rankings. He was superb this week.

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I don't want to belabor an earlier point, but I wonder what many of those making all-time lists would say about Phil if he had won the PGA in '01 and today, where he shot the third and T4 lowest aggregate scores in major championship history.

 

If Phil had either the US Open from Winged Foot ('05?) or the one from Merion you could easily make a case for him being Top 10 and maybe even as high as top 5 or 6. It's that fine a line at this point debating these resumes. I hope he can keep this form going for the next month and he's won at Baltusrol so you never know and I hope that he can find some magic and somehow someway win a US Open but I think that ship has likely sailed. He could maybe still win another Masters or another Open like we saw this week.

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So, in chronological order, the greatest titans in golf history, starting with Bobby Jones, would be 1) Jones 2) Nelson 3) Snead 4) Hogan 5) Palmer 6) Player 7) Nicklaus 8) Watson 9) Woods and a battle for 10th among Trevino, Ballesteros and Phil.

 

Not forgetting Faldo, more majors than the last two.

 

Sorry, but Sir Nick just isn't in this conversation.

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