Nike dropping golf equipment (merged)

[Interpol]

Do you guys think Nike would have been more successful in sales and reputation if they would have stuck to a more traditional platform?

 

I don't. The problem isn't the product, it's the brand name. When people hear "Nike" they don't automatically think "golf clubs", they think "shoes and apparel". So when someone sees a Nike branded piece of golf equipment, they're going to have doubts about whether Nike stuff performs as well as other brands that have been in the golf business for far longer.

 

Imagine if a company like Amazon announced that they were going to start making wedges and had hired Roger Cleveland to design them. How many of you would take them seriously? Branding is just as important as build quality and performance.

[ikarcuaso]

Virgin

American Express

Cisco

Tesla

McDonald’s

HBO

Microsoft

Coke

Amazon

Facebook

 

I can keep typing, and we can nitpick every little example. It isn't always easy, and the degrees of penetration ,

 

success, etc. vary, but a company can buy into a new market.

 

Rattling off a list of company names without saying exactly what new markets they bought into does absolutely nothing to support your claim.

Yup, nor does a blanket statement like "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market" w/o citing all examples of those that have tried & failed. Welcome to the Internet.

[Shilgy]

Do you guys think Nike would have been more successful in sales and reputation if they would have stuck to a more traditional platform?

 

I don't. The problem isn't the product, it's the brand name. When people hear "Nike" they don't automatically think "golf clubs", they think "shoes and apparel". So when someone sees a Nike branded piece of golf equipment, they're going to have doubts about whether Nike stuff performs as well as other brands that have been in the golf business for far longer.

 

Imagine if a company like Amazon announced that they were going to start making wedges and had hired Roger Cleveland to design them. How many of you would take them seriously? Branding is just as important as build quality and performance.

100% agree. Don White, Tom Stites, Tom Wishon, Bob Vokey could start a club company and people would respect it. A non golf company like Nike was not so much. It's more skepticism than anything.

[Interpol]

Yup, nor does a blanket statement like "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market" w/o citing all examples of those that have tried & failed. Welcome to the Internet.

 

Whatever. It may have been a blanket statement, but you haven't proven it wrong.

 

The only thing you've managed to prove is that you have no knowledge or understanding of business or economics.

[tannyhoban]

I think the problem is when large sports equipment manufacturers “add-on” golf. It eventually fails. I worked in a pro shop in NJ in the mid 90’s when Nike signed Tiger. It’s not like Nike already had a great club or ball and then went after endorsements. They made a record breaking deal with Tiger without any golf equipment business to speak of, then tried to build the capability. Took them decades. Look up what Tiger played in his ’97 Masters win (as mentioned in this thread, Cameron putter, Cobra driver, etc.). For all those old enough to recall those days, it felt like Nike was trying to buy their way into golf with no experience. That may be the source of some of the haters out there. Early Nike golf efforts were awful. The first irons, woods, etc. were not good. Contrast that approach with PXG who actually seem to be trying to make a great product first. At least their endorsements are coming after the R&D. And PXG is not a big all sports equipment manufacturer. Neither were Ping or Callaway. The original Taylormade started by Harry Taylor was golf only, as was Roger Cleveland’s wedge business. Prince, Head, Rawlings, Spalding, AMF, all attempted golf add-ons and failed eventually. At least Acushnet had the good sense to carve out a golf focused brand for Titleist. Golf is tough and unique (game and business). That’s what I like about it and why I play. Sorry to see Nike golf fold, they were finally getting things on track.

 

Spalding is what Bobby Jones played, hardly consider them a golf add on. And Tom Stites was a respected club designer prior to joining Nike. Boutique brands and golf startups get a lot of latitude but Nike somehow chapped a lot of folks from the start. It's been weird to watch their saga unfold. Personally I found the original blades, the pro combos some of the woods including the Coverts and mostly their wedges all performed well for me. There just was never a lot of selection around here in the stores I frequent. For a company with that many resources it didn't seem like they got very far with acceptance with the key buyers. You gotta have product out there to move it.

[ikarcuaso]

Yup, nor does a blanket statement like "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market" w/o citing all examples of those that have tried & failed. Welcome to the Internet.

 

OK, whatever...it may have been a blanket statement, but you haven't proven it wrong.

 

The only thing you've managed to prove is that you have no knowledge or understanding of business or economics.

"only thing", "no knowledge"

 

I also proved you like to make blanket statements.

[Mafro]

I definitely saddened by this. I have been playing all Nike clubs for at least 8 years. I will continue to play what I have because I'm just trying to get back into the game as much as I used to play. I am kind of at a no man's land of even knowing what company I would even look at for more equipment. I like some ping and even titleist clubs but they are just so expensive. With taylormade looking to be sold and no real potential buyer stepping up who knows what is going to happen with them.

[Interpol]

"only thing", "no knowledge"

 

I also proved you like to make blanket statements.

 

Heh, you couldn't even manage to prove that. You seem to enjoy pulling conjecture out of your butt, however.

 

"Whatever"

[highergr0und]

How is this thread only 43 pages? You can do better GolfWRX. BETTER!!!!!

[Shilgy]

"only thing", "no knowledge"

 

I also proved you like to make blanket statements.

 

Heh, you couldn't even manage to prove that. You seem to enjoy pulling conjecture out of your butt, however.

 

"Whatever"

Oh would you two get a room? :)

[ikarcuaso]

"only thing", "no knowledge"

 

I also proved you like to make blanket statements.

 

Heh, you couldn't even manage to prove that. You seem to enjoy pulling conjecture out of your butt, however.

 

"Whatever"

Oh would you two get a room? :)

Happy to, but Interpol needs to promise to calm down first.

[tannyhoban]

Jacot23 above post 1271 and others...

 

Funny how we all have our bias' with regards to clubs. I have not played anything Callaway since they thumbed their noses at USGA rules with the illegal ERC non conforming driver.

 

Was Callaway's decision really that simple? Or maybe they had already made significant commitments to stakeholders to bring that product out. I dunno, dont remember the exact circumstance. But it's plausible.

[Shilgy]

Jacot23 above post 1271 and others...

 

Funny how we all have our bias' with regards to clubs. I have not played anything Callaway since they thumbed their noses at USGA rules with the illegal ERC non conforming driver.

 

Was Callaway's decision really that simple? Or maybe they had already made significant commitments to stakeholders to bring that product out. I dunno, dont remember the exact circumstance. But it's plausible.

Heck Arnie endorsed the thing. Considering they made an also too hot erc 2 that excuse is out imo.

 

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news01/callaway.html

[jmck]

Titleist, TM, and pretty much everyone else made illegal high-COR drivers back when the rule took effect too. They were just marketed in Europe and/or Japan. Everyone except Callaway had the good sense to know our Puritan roots would lead to righteous anger and scorching hot takes if they tried to release them here.

[tannyhoban]

Jacot23 above post 1271 and others...

 

Funny how we all have our bias' with regards to clubs. I have not played anything Callaway since they thumbed their noses at USGA rules with the illegal ERC non conforming driver.

 

Was Callaway's decision really that simple? Or maybe they had already made significant commitments to stakeholders to bring that product out. I dunno, dont remember the exact circumstance. But it's plausible.

Heck Arnie endorsed the thing. Considering they made an also too hot erc 2 that excuse is out imo.

 

http://www.golftoday...1/callaway.html

 

Well then ok. I'm with Arnie and Callaway. Screw the USGA. Seems like a hundred years ago all of the sudden.

[nikegal]

How many days before Rory is back playing his titleist clubs and winning again. He has never been the same since he put the Nike clubs in his hand. I bet his confidence level goes through he roof again once he is back with titleist!

 

doubt that will happen, He still has a nike clothing deal. Titleist want you head to toe titleist, and footjoy. I am thinking along the lines of Mizuno, srixon, or someone that will allow him to continue wearing nike clothes.

 

No they don't.......Jordan Speith? Adam Scott?

Nice point Arafel. My last two years with Titleist I wore Nike apparel and shoes and there was no problem. As I said in other threads, Titleist is as classy a company as you'll find. Take Care :) Maddie

[carn9698]

The issue is that their 2 big names had money threw at them to swap from quality Titleist products. As consumers we thought Tiger and Rory sold out for lesser quality equipment to pocket the cash. We could see they both had the talent to get away with the switch, but we know our talent is way less. Hence we need top equipment help.

 

Therefore Nike was never taken seriously by serious golfers. The flashy colours and poor club designs did not help them shift clubs either.

[baudi]

So here it is: the show down of overloaded market. In other threads posters claim that the reorganization of Golfsmith and Nike's decision are not related.

That is correct of course but the problems come from the same source: no buyers.

In the middle of difficulty lies the opportunity.

 

Just prior to the rise of Golfsmith I met Carl Paul in Austin in the mid nineties. A hardworking guy, peoples person. Classless attitude. That time, Golfsmith already was a very professional company-with Tom Wishon in the heart for the tech and exposing Harvey Penick as the local dean of coaches. Carl Paul Started out as a clubmaker and when he ruled in that early rise of Golfsmith, clubmakers were there main customers. Carl Paul never neglected that but Golfsmith's savvy was enormous and left many behind. The profession of clubbulding would be n a much lower level without Golfsmith.

 

About 5 years later Nike shows her interest in golf. First, the big contract with Tiger for 80 mil and also the seeding of new poducts from The Oven.

Many players laughed at their effort. But Tom Stites c.s have definitately made their mark.

The Proto iron? Great head! VR Combo fantastic set up. And that list is long al the way for balls and clubs. I still have a 13.5 degree head the type of Tiger used to win his great victories. Great fw wood that outperforms the Titleist heads of that day by mile. It is just too bad that the goods did not sell well enough.

 

Since Bob Parsons is looking for cooperation with Nike -I hope not- in my opinion The Oven and the reorganized Golfsmith should hook up and unite their strength and qualities.

Together they can make clubmaking great a gain. The Oven will innovate high end equipment like heads and tools; Golfsmith will distribute products and provide clubmakers the services. Only the best components that will match any player and will outperform any other brand which is facing hard times too.

With one main difference: the other brands do no sell components. They sell complete clubs which is their ultimate weakness.

[tannyhoban]

So here it is: the show down of overloaded market. In other threads posters claim that the reorganization of Golfsmith and Nike's decision are not related.

That is correct of course but the problems come from the same source: no buyers.

In the middle of difficulty lies the opportunity.

 

Just prior to the rise of Golfsmith I met Carl Paul in Austin in the mid nineties. A hardworking guy, peoples person. Classless attitude. That time, Golfsmith already was a very professional company-with Tom Wishon in the heart for the tech and exposing Harvey Penick as the local dean of coaches. Carl Paul Started out as a clubmaker and when he ruled in that early rise of Golfsmith, clubmakers were there main customers. Carl Paul never neglected that but Golfsmith's savvy was enormous and left many behind. The profession of clubbulding would be n a much lower level without Golfsmith.

 

About 5 years later Nike shows her interest in golf. First, the big contract with Tiger for 80 mil and also the seeding of new poducts from The Oven.

Many players laughed at their effort. But Tom Stites c.s have definitately made their mark.

The Proto iron? Great head! VS Combo fantastic set up. And that list is long al the way for balls and clubs. I still have a 13.5 degree head the type of Tiger used to win his great victories. Great fw wood that outperforms the Titleist heads of that day by mile. It is just too bad that the goods did not sell well enough.

 

Since Bob Parsons is looking for cooperation with Nike -I hope not- in my opinion The Oven and the reorganized Golfsmith should hook up and unite their strength and qualities.

Together they can make clubmaking great a gain. The Oven will innovate high end equipment like heads and tools; Golfsmith will distribute products and provide clubmakers the services. Only the best components that will match any player and will outperform any other brand which is facing hard times too.

With one main difference: the other brands do no sell components. They sell complete clubs which is their ultimate weakness.

 

Not to diss Golfsmith, but Ralph Maltby and Golfworks have done their fair share for clubmakers. And no way do two faltering enterprises joining make a whole one. It just doesn't work. Nice sentiment though.

[othys]

I actually enjoyed the new rzn platinum, first nike ball I like.

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

I actually enjoyed the new rzn platinum, first nike ball I like.

 

Agreed and since I hit a high ball I like the RZN White as well. I guess I will stock up on some soon!

[yoder9339]

The funny thing about the square driver is first Nike wasn't the only one making them as others have said and secondly two major championships were won with square drivers.

 

It is funny people want innovation and improving technology but they don't want to adapt.

 

As TW tweeted, Nike really changed golf in that it forced the demise of the would ball. Without Nike is there ever a ProV1? Who knows.

 

Wasn't that original Nike multi-layer ball a re-badged Bridgestone ball? And the Pro V1 debuted a few months later in the fall of 2000 - it was clearly in development long before the "Nike" ball debuted with Tiger.

The original ProV1 was shelved by Titleist until Tiger dominated with the Nike solid ball. I've heard Dean Snell tell the story. I am sure it would have come to market eventually but Titleist execs were focused on their wound ball business.

[brew4eagle]

I see a lot of 'nike golf produced an inferior product' claims in this thread. Nike Golf as a business was obviously doing something wrong, but the equipment is very solid. In no way is it inferior to any brand, and that's a simple fact.

 

Absolutely agree with this, although to some extent I think part of Nike's problem was the stuff was just that: solid. To break through a lot of the negative perception that exists in the minds of many golf consumers, Nike needed to make a superlative product and (with perhaps a few exceptions) never quite got there. They made plenty of stuff just as good as Cally, Ping, Titleist, etc. but never really established a niche the way those brands have.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this as a Nike hater. I'm currently playing and love my Vapor Fly driver. But, I think to the review I wrote on it shortly after putting it in the bag. It was something to the effect of "not the longest, or the straightest, or the best feel, just solid all around." A club that's above average at everything makes for a great product - but, at the same time it was never going to help Nike break through to those already skeptical before picking up a club at a demo day...

 

2014 VR Forged Pro Combo irons are a superlative product, as are the VR Forged wedges

[GC70]

This is for some of the newer guys that came aboard after the Oven trip

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/847376-nike-oven-cooks-some-wrxers-we-visit-nike-for-a-tour-and-fitting/page__hl__oven%20trip

[DatSliceDoe]

I see a lot of 'nike golf produced an inferior product' claims in this thread. Nike Golf as a business was obviously doing something wrong, but the equipment is very solid. In no way is it inferior to any brand, and that's a simple fact.

 

Absolutely agree with this, although to some extent I think part of Nike's problem was the stuff was just that: solid. To break through a lot of the negative perception that exists in the minds of many golf consumers, Nike needed to make a superlative product and (with perhaps a few exceptions) never quite got there. They made plenty of stuff just as good as Cally, Ping, Titleist, etc. but never really established a niche the way those brands have.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this as a Nike hater. I'm currently playing and love my Vapor Fly driver. But, I think to the review I wrote on it shortly after putting it in the bag. It was something to the effect of "not the longest, or the straightest, or the best feel, just solid all around." A club that's above average at everything makes for a great product - but, at the same time it was never going to help Nike break through to those already skeptical before picking up a club at a demo day...

 

2014 VR Forged Pro Combo irons are a superlative product, as are the VR Forged wedges

I want a set now more than ever.

[brew4eagle]

I see a lot of 'nike golf produced an inferior product' claims in this thread. Nike Golf as a business was obviously doing something wrong, but the equipment is very solid. In no way is it inferior to any brand, and that's a simple fact.

 

Absolutely agree with this, although to some extent I think part of Nike's problem was the stuff was just that: solid. To break through a lot of the negative perception that exists in the minds of many golf consumers, Nike needed to make a superlative product and (with perhaps a few exceptions) never quite got there. They made plenty of stuff just as good as Cally, Ping, Titleist, etc. but never really established a niche the way those brands have.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this as a Nike hater. I'm currently playing and love my Vapor Fly driver. But, I think to the review I wrote on it shortly after putting it in the bag. It was something to the effect of "not the longest, or the straightest, or the best feel, just solid all around." A club that's above average at everything makes for a great product - but, at the same time it was never going to help Nike break through to those already skeptical before picking up a club at a demo day...

 

2014 VR Forged Pro Combo irons are a superlative product, as are the VR Forged wedges

I want a set now more than ever.

Have been playing them the last 15 months, best irons I've ever had.

[DatSliceDoe]

I see a lot of 'nike golf produced an inferior product' claims in this thread. Nike Golf as a business was obviously doing something wrong, but the equipment is very solid. In no way is it inferior to any brand, and that's a simple fact.

 

Absolutely agree with this, although to some extent I think part of Nike's problem was the stuff was just that: solid. To break through a lot of the negative perception that exists in the minds of many golf consumers, Nike needed to make a superlative product and (with perhaps a few exceptions) never quite got there. They made plenty of stuff just as good as Cally, Ping, Titleist, etc. but never really established a niche the way those brands have.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this as a Nike hater. I'm currently playing and love my Vapor Fly driver. But, I think to the review I wrote on it shortly after putting it in the bag. It was something to the effect of "not the longest, or the straightest, or the best feel, just solid all around." A club that's above average at everything makes for a great product - but, at the same time it was never going to help Nike break through to those already skeptical before picking up a club at a demo day...

 

2014 VR Forged Pro Combo irons are a superlative product, as are the VR Forged wedges

I want a set now more than ever.

Have been playing them the last 15 months, best irons I've ever had.

 

I just found a new set on the bay for $xxx. Good deal?

 

edit: Screw it, bought em. I've always been a sucker for that club. Will make a great backup set.

[BlackM00Nlight]

The VR Forged pro combo.. heard good things. I've never swung them.

[Shilgy]

Titleist, TM, and pretty much everyone else made illegal high-COR drivers back when the rule took effect too. They were just marketed in Europe and/or Japan. Everyone except Callaway had the good sense to know our Puritan roots would lead to righteous anger and scorching hot takes if they tried to release them here.

Not in the US is kind of the point isn't it? Yes we all knew you could get Japan product that was hotter but imo was the same as playing the Polara self correcting ball.

[BigHook25]

The issue is that their 2 big names had money threw at them to swap from quality Titleist products. As consumers we thought Tiger and Rory sold out for lesser quality equipment to pocket the cash. We could see they both had the talent to get away with the switch, but we know our talent is way less. Hence we need top equipment help.

 

Therefore Nike was never taken seriously by serious golfers. The flashy colours and poor club designs did not help them shift clubs either.

 

Titleist fanboys need to get over this. Titleist products were not better than anything else, just the perception of them was. It is all a hypothetical anyway, cause Rory could have stayed with Titleist and still be stuck on two majors, or maybe have six.

 

I played Titleist clubs that I liked and didn't like and I played Nike clubs I liked and also didn't like. It is too easy for people to make the excuse that its the equipment when a lot of pros switch equipment all the time and nobody says anything.