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Divots in the fairway


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15 hours ago, sui generis said:

For the record, it was not a "PGA event." It was a PGA Tour event, a TV show whose sole mission in the universe is to get you to watch a golf-themed reality show and to entice old white men into buying the shiny things shown in the adverts.

 

I cannot recall if I have ever read something so skillfully weaved text on this forum! Thank You, Sui!!

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I dont really remember the last time my ball was in a divot on the fairway, but if its not a skins round, tournament or something like that Ill give it the footwedge. Crucify me all you want, it wont bother me. Its silly at some of these public courses to be penalized because a golfer before you just didnt give a crap.

Mostly PING clubs, with TaylorMade woods.

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They have to debate and come up with something like 50%+, 75%+ 
recovered.  They can find divots that qualify and photo them for the 
rules officials, then it's a judgement call by an official, just like other 
sports have judgement calls. 
 
It's pretty easy to determine a divot from a bare/dead spot from 
drought/disease, which the tour might call GUR anyway.      

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19 minutes ago, ArtMBgolf said:

They have to debate and come up with something like 50%+, 75%+ 
recovered.  They can find divots that qualify and photo them for the 
rules officials, then it's a judgement call by an official, just like other 
sports have judgement calls. 
 
It's pretty easy to determine a divot from a bare/dead spot from 
drought/disease, which the tour might call GUR anyway.      

And the viewing public would have many more referee's "judgements" to complain about when their betting favorite got what might be a "bad call".

Everything is fine the way it is now.  As a referee, I'm not interested in a change - let it be.  The players need to play hard, like Westwood demonstrated.

Edited by rogolf
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11 hours ago, ArtMBgolf said:

They have to debate and come up with something like 50%+, 75%+ 
recovered.  They can find divots that qualify and photo them for the 
rules officials, then it's a judgement call by an official, just like other 
sports have judgement calls. 
 
It's pretty easy to determine a divot from a bare/dead spot from 
drought/disease, which the tour might call GUR anyway.      

So to be clear you are suggesting this only at the pro level on the PGA Tour? This would be a very interesting way to bifurcate the rules, as the pro's really don't need relief from divots, they have the require skill to deal with them.

 

I play in 20-30 events per year and none have reasonable access to a rules official to assess my lie. I also play 100+ rounds under the rules of golf with zero access to rules official. 

Edited by 2bGood
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1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

So to be clear you are suggesting this only at the pro level on the PGA Tour? This would be a very interesting way to bifurcate the rules, as the pro's really don't need relief for divots, they have the require skill to deal with them.

 

 

Not to mention the top pro's have substantially fewer unrepaired divot holes to deal with in the first place.

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53 minutes ago, Colin L said:

I suspect the last groups out in the day have quite a few fresh divot holes to contend with.

 

 

Certainly some more than the 1st groups but much much less than on a course with Average Joes playing. Those pro caddies have a nasty habit of repairing the divot holes whenever there is a divot to repair with while Average Joe has another kind of habit...

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2 hours ago, limegreengent said:

Just imagine if you could not complain about the divot-

You would have to admit that you're a rubbish player / or perhaps the jet cruising at 22,000 feet put you off.

 

Or, my favorite: “The least thing upset him on the links. He missed short putts because of the uproar of the butterflies in the adjoining meadows. ” - P.G. Wodehouse

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Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play competitive golf.

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20 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Or, my favorite: “The least thing upset him on the links. He missed short putts because of the uproar of the butterflies in the adjoining meadows. ” - P.G. Wodehouse

Well, butterflies are known to be big gossips and lose track of how loudly they speak.

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6 hours ago, 2bGood said:

So to be clear you are suggesting this only at the pro level on the PGA Tour? This would be a very interesting way to bifurcate the rules, as the pro's really don't need relief from divots, they have the require skill to deal with them.

 

I play in 20-30 events per year and none have reasonable access to a rules official that could assess my lie. I also play 100+ rounds under the rules of golf with zero access to rules official. 

 

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12 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Not to mention the top pro's have substantially fewer unrepaired divot holes to deal with in the first place.

 

They hopefully have no un-repaired holes, as they do fill or replace their divots.

 

As for repaired holes, they would have allot. If you have ever played a PGA stop just after event there are lots of filled divots. All the PGA players take a nice divot and the landing areas on some holes are pretty consistent player to player. 

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Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play competitive golf.

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22 minutes ago, Newby said:

See below for an excerpt from a joint USGA and R&A report on topics not addressed in the 2019 modernization of the Rules.

Apparently, the discussion on divot holes was very short, about the length of time between the traffic light turning green and the guy behind you honking his horn.

 

Certain Topics Not Addressed in the New Rules of Golf for 2019–March 2018 Update
2. Preserving the Fundamental Challenge of the Game• Play the ball as it lies–In its simplest form, golf is about playing the ball from tee to green by hitting it with a golf club, and not otherwise touching the ball. A fundamental challenge of the sport is to deal with whatever position your ball comes to rest in –whether good or bad. While there are some necessary exceptions (such as obstructions and other abnormal course conditions), the essential nature of golf means these must remain exceptions rather than the norm. Therefore, the new Rules do not provide relief without penalty from situations that some golfers complain about, such as when their ball comes to rest in a divot hole on a fairway or in footprints in a poorly raked bunker. In addition to being contrary to the fundamental principle of playing the ball as it lies, providing free relief in such circumstances would make the Rules harder to apply (for example, what is the difference between an irregularity of surface and an old divot hole?) and could slow down play when there are difficult questions about what is or isn’t a divot hole.

 

Newby, you know as well as I do that people who have built a religion of their own in defending free relief from a divot hole could not care less about ANY rational explanation why they cannot have their way.

 

However, I must respect your attempt to convert even some of them, as futile it seems to be...

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Newby, you know as well as I do that people who have built a religion of their own in defending free relief from a divot hole could not care less about ANY rational explanation why they cannot have their way.

 

However, I must respect your attempt to convert even some of them, as futile it seems to be...

To be honest it was only posted for information and to indicate it won't change in the foreseeable future. I wasn't looking to convert anyone.

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"Sorry Bob, but your ball was clearly within a penalty area and down here we consider gators to be livestock and not dangerous animals so I'm afraid you're going to have to take normal penalty area relief on that one."

 

image.png.011ced1b631e0901992f07d0f72277d3.png

 

All kidding aside here is the actual video...lol.

Edited by Dpavs
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On 1/18/2021 at 3:03 PM, hybrid25 said:

I will resurrect this thread because as I was watching the Golf Today show they were discussing what rog they would like to see changed. The age old desire to allow a free drop from a fairway divot was brought up again by one of the hosts seemed to gererate some like minded desires. So many golfers would love to see this rule changed to include the 'free drop' from a fairway divot. Again, I guess humans are too ignorant to determine what a fairway divot is, the complaint of the bluenose rules buffs, but I know what they are, and I'm probably not the most cerebral individual walking the face of the earth. Cmon USGA, get the rule changed, do the right thing!!!

I feel like this rule is too easy of a change for the USGA, which means they will mess it up.  I just don’t see the point of making people play out of a man made hole in the ground. The people saying “hit the ball first” are probably the same people who complain after chunking or blading a shot out of a divot. This is easily, in my opinion, one of the worst rules of golf. If your ball is on dirt or sand in the fairway from a man made golf swing then you should be able to move it. So dumb. 

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18 minutes ago, bmoser9 said:

I feel like this rule is too easy of a change for the USGA, which means they will mess it up.  I just don’t see the point of making people play out of a man made hole in the ground. The people saying “hit the ball first” are probably the same people who complain after chunking or blading a shot out of a divot. This is easily, in my opinion, one of the worst rules of golf. If your ball is on dirt or sand in the fairway from a man made golf swing then you should be able to move it. So dumb. 

 

That's a pretty bold to claim, this is one of the worst rules in golf when it's practically the fundamental basis for the whole game:

 

A player’s ball at rest on the course must be played as it lies, except when the Rules require or allow the player:

  • To play a ball from another place on the course, or
  • To lift a ball and then replace it on its original spot.
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2 hours ago, bmoser9 said:

I feel like this rule is too easy of a change for the USGA, which means they will mess it up.  I just don’t see the point of making people play out of a man made hole in the ground. The people saying “hit the ball first” are probably the same people who complain after chunking or blading a shot out of a divot. This is easily, in my opinion, one of the worst rules of golf. If your ball is on dirt or sand in the fairway from a man made golf swing then you should be able to move it. So dumb. 

 

Apparently you did not read Newby's post from yesterday. No problem, I attach the key text here:

 

Certain Topics Not Addressed in the New Rules of Golf for 2019–March 2018 Update
2. Preserving the Fundamental Challenge of the Game• Play the ball as it lies–In its simplest form, golf is about playing the ball from tee to green by hitting it with a golf club, and not otherwise touching the ball. A fundamental challenge of the sport is to deal with whatever position your ball comes to rest in –whether good or bad. While there are some necessary exceptions (such as obstructions and other abnormal course conditions), the essential nature of golf means these must remain exceptions rather than the norm. Therefore, the new Rules do not provide relief without penalty from situations that some golfers complain about, such as when their ball comes to rest in a divot hole on a fairway or in footprints in a poorly raked bunker. In addition to being contrary to the fundamental principle of playing the ball as it lies, providing free relief in such circumstances would make the Rules harder to apply (for example, what is the difference between an irregularity of surface and an old divot hole?) and could slow down play when there are difficult questions about what is or isn’t a divot hole.

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1 hour ago, Halebopp said:

 

That's a pretty bold to claim, this is one of the worst rules in golf when it's practically the fundamental basis for the whole game:

 

A player’s ball at rest on the course must be played as it lies, except when the Rules require or allow the player:

  • To play a ball from another place on the course, or
  • To lift a ball and then replace it on its original spot.

Maybe worst rule in golf was a bit dramatic since there are some pretty dumb rules... but I also think playing from a divot made by someone else is pretty dumb. It’s literally ground that is under repair but not in the sense GUR is written. I get that it’s one of the first original rules of golf and probably won’t be changed. Just my opinion.


Make sure you drop from knee high when you find the flower bed next round... lol

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