Jim Hardy - The Release: Golf's Moment of Truth

[TB07]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

[Golfbeat]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

[Fort Worth Pro]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

Some people have to consciously do it while others do it naturally. It begins happening before p5 in really high level strikers.

[bph7]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

I don't see how this question has any bearing on this quite interesting discussion. The answer is the same as the answer to any "conscious" question. Like almost any move in golf, if you aren't doing it and need to do it, there will be conscious effort required. If you are already doing the move correctly without thinking about it, there won't need to be "conscious" effort.

[chrisgilly09]

I think theres always a bit of subconscious attention even in trained movements, especially considering its statistically impossible to repeat the same swing. I just think we dont know or recognize it during the swing bph. Whaddya think?

[dpb5031]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

Some people have to consciously do it while others do it naturally. It begins happening before p5 in really high level strikers.

 

Ok thanks, interesting stuff. Sounds like I was on the right track with my earlier post in terms of club face being a factor. Still surprised strength of grip, particularly lead hand does not factor? Seems less rotation would be needed to return to square relative to a weak grip.

 

Will a player who has already closed, or begun closing the face around P5 therefore show less forearm rotation around impact?

 

How about players like David Duvall who are shut at the top (already square to the arc)?

[Golfbeat]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

I don't see how this question has any bearing on this quite interesting discussion. The answer is the same as the answer to any "conscious" question. Like almost any move in golf, if you aren't doing it and need to do it, there will be conscious effort required. If you are already doing the move correctly without thinking about it, there won't need to be "conscious" effort.

 

Like consciously creating lag when you don't have it?

[Fort Worth Pro]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

Some people have to consciously do it while others do it naturally. It begins happening before p5 in really high level strikers.

 

Ok thanks, interesting stuff. Sounds like I was on the right track with my earlier post in terms of club face being a factor. Still surprised strength of grip, particularly lead hand does not factor? Seems less rotation would be needed to return to square relative to a weak grip.

 

Will a player who has already closed, or begun closing the face around P5 therefore show less forearm rotation around impact?

 

How about players like David Duvall who are shut at the top (already square to the arc)?

 

Two of the players that have the weakest grip on tour would be rahm and spieth. They just get it closed earlier. A player like duval and dj definitely would fit. They still have to rotate it back to square though. Even a "shut" face is open and has to rotate back to square.

[bph7]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

I don't see how this question has any bearing on this quite interesting discussion. The answer is the same as the answer to any "conscious" question. Like almost any move in golf, if you aren't doing it and need to do it, there will be conscious effort required. If you are already doing the move correctly without thinking about it, there won't need to be "conscious" effort.

 

Like consciously creating lag when you don't have it?

 

There are certainly "conscious" things you can do to "properly" get more lag. But it's not a good example. I was talking about a specific biomechanical move (i.e. the wrist movements FWP discussed). "Create more lag" is not a biomechanical movement, so it doesn't really fit in with what I was speaking about.

[Golfbeat]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

I don't see how this question has any bearing on this quite interesting discussion. The answer is the same as the answer to any "conscious" question. Like almost any move in golf, if you aren't doing it and need to do it, there will be conscious effort required. If you are already doing the move correctly without thinking about it, there won't need to be "conscious" effort.

 

Like consciously creating lag when you don't have it?

 

There are certainly "conscious" things you can do to "properly" get more lag. But it's not a good example. I was talking about a specific biomechanical move (i.e. the wrist movements FWP discussed). "Create more lag" is not a biomechanical movement, so it doesn't really fit in with what I was speaking about.

 

You can also flex your wrists without consciously moving them for example by moving your arms and just holding the club. I don't really understand why as an amateur you have to add any information when the pros have answered my question very clearly. You are just confusing everybody.

[Golfbeat]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

Some people have to consciously do it while others do it naturally. It begins happening before p5 in really high level strikers.

 

So what he is demonstrating is the opposite what you want then?

 

[Fort Worth Pro]

In transition and trail wrist extends as lead wrist goes in flexion.

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

Some people have to consciously do it while others do it naturally. It begins happening before p5 in really high level strikers.

 

So what he is demonstrating is the opposite what you want then?

 

 

No. what he is demonstrating is the opposite of what happens. It has nothing to do with what I want.

[dap]

Zanda is also not doing what he is demonstrating in his real swing. He flexes his lead wrist on the downswing, not extending like he is demonstrating. Is it any wonder golf instruction is confusing?

[bph7]

 

 

It that a conscious move or is it the result of the forces of a good pivot and arms swing?

 

I don't see how this question has any bearing on this quite interesting discussion. The answer is the same as the answer to any "conscious" question. Like almost any move in golf, if you aren't doing it and need to do it, there will be conscious effort required. If you are already doing the move correctly without thinking about it, there won't need to be "conscious" effort.

 

Like consciously creating lag when you don't have it?

 

There are certainly "conscious" things you can do to "properly" get more lag. But it's not a good example. I was talking about a specific biomechanical move (i.e. the wrist movements FWP discussed). "Create more lag" is not a biomechanical movement, so it doesn't really fit in with what I was speaking about.

 

You can also flex your wrists without consciously moving them for example by moving your arms and just holding the club. I don't really understand why as an amateur you have to add any information when the pros have answered my question very clearly. You are just confusing everybody.

 

I was writing my first post while FWP was writing his apparently. If I had seen his, I wouldn't have posted the original. Anyway, as I've said multiple times, people are free to disregard anything I say. I'm not claiming to be an authority on this or any matter. I don't really think I'm confusing anyone though. I think your constant back and forth when the statements by the pros are clearly obvious is more confusing.

[bph7]

Zanda is also not doing what he is demonstrating in his real swing. He flexes his lead wrist on the downswing, not extending like he is demonstrating. Is it any wonder golf instruction is confusing?

 

Yeh I dunno who this dude is but he puts out some really unhelpful content.

[Ghost of Snead]

Zanda is also not doing what he is demonstrating in his real swing. He flexes his lead wrist on the downswing, not extending like he is demonstrating. Is it any wonder golf instruction is confusing?

 

Yeh I dunno who this dude is but he puts out some really unhelpful content.

 

He is a disciple of Hardy.

[glk]

Zanda is also not doing what he is demonstrating in his real swing. He flexes his lead wrist on the downswing, not extending like he is demonstrating. Is it any wonder golf instruction is confusing?

That's Monte's cast part of his no turn cast video.

[Hilts1969]

Zanda is also not doing what he is demonstrating in his real swing. He flexes his lead wrist on the downswing, not extending like he is demonstrating. Is it any wonder golf instruction is confusing?

 

Yeh I dunno who this dude is but he puts out some really unhelpful content.

 

That move he is doing which looks the same as montes cast or chipping video and has also been shown by crossfield is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to be doing? In my simplistic terms I call that flipping from the top, wouldn't the opposite be holding the angle?

[hoselrocketman]

Over the past 30 years I have been to the following instructors:

 

- Jimmy Ballard

- Brian Mogg

- David Glenz

- Geoff Jones

- Jim Hardy

 

Hardy, by far was the best for me, although Geoff Jones is great as well. Saw Jim twice. Aside from being a complete gentleman he was able to get me to understand the swing and more importantly, help me self correct. There is a misconception about what he teaches. He doesn't do radical swing overhauls; he uses what you have to create the optimal swing path to produce the correct ball flight. Now, I admit that when I was in college I had a plus 3 handicap but over the years as I reached my 50s it ballooned to a 6. After reading his 1st book I decided to go see him and after 2 days of working hard I returned home and won my club championship by 13 shots at - 3 for 3 rounds. Saw him again 2 years later and at age 55 was the medalist in one of the NJ State Am qualifiers.

 

A few things in my swing were changed that made a huge difference:

 

1. Posture; slightly more bent over

2. Turning in what he calls the "zone"

3. Getting my left elbow and arm up and back briskly on the downswing which freed up my right arm and hand to freewheel through the shot

4. More width in my right arm on the backswing

 

These are the things he had me work on and the results were almost instantaneous.

 

As for Geoff; similar concepts although he is at odds with Hardy on how the arms work in the backswing, however; similar concepts on the downswing; "nuking it" as he says by whipping the arms and hands to the left as fast as possible. Geoff is a treasure and a great guy.

Nice score, Tom, including the hole in one!! My dad used to be a member at Old Yorke years ago. I played there with him in the '60s! 1960s that is!

[hoselrocketman]

Are there any differences in this latest book to the Plane Truth videos done 5ish years ago?

 

Jim is probably a coach best seen in person and I expect where he falls short with a large amount of golf nerds is he isn't complicated in approach.

 

Yes, this book provides new information reflecting Jim Hardy's continuing study of the golf swing. It's his first book directly relating to the release and, in my judgment, a book that will be of value to any serious student of the golf swing. Jim is an empiricist, meaning that his knowledge is derived from his senses and his experience. It's tried and true information from a man with an extraordinary eye for the golf swing as well as a deep understanding of the physics of the swing. As I stressed in an earlier post recommending THE RELEASE, a special contribution of the book is how to release the club in what Jim calls the RIT (right inward throw) in a way that keeps the face square to its arc through the hitting area. Take a look at figures 1.4 and 1.5 in the book to see what I'm referring to. Another huge plus of the RIT release, when correctly executed, is tremendous head speed. So, what we've got here is a release that's both highly stable and capable of producing exceptional distance.

 

By the way, fun demonstrations of what throwing the head can accomplish is provided by Mike Austin in this Youtube video starting about one minute into the clip:

 

Care to post figure 1.4 and 1.5?

So you have not even looked at the book but decide to comment on how wrong Hardy is? Very nice.

 

Did you miss the post where I said I sat through a 3 hour presentation with Jim as he presented all of this prior to the book even being released? I know exactly what he is saying/claiming. I was just asking for specific images being referenced so I could comment on them specifically. I can speak at length about the theories he is espousing.

I, personally, would NOT want to see you "speak at length" any further than you already have in this string. Your are MISTER NEGATIVE and I find it unnecessary and upsetting. Debate and disagreement is perfectly acceptable and welcome but you are going way past that already.

[Jacob Mac]

 

 

How is pointing out that what Hardy teaches isn't what actually happens a bad thing? Because that is all he has done.

[Fort Worth Pro]

I, personally, would NOT want to see you "speak at length" any further than you already have in this string. Your are MISTER NEGATIVE and I find it unnecessary and upsetting. Debate and disagreement is perfectly acceptable and welcome but you are going way past that already.

 

I apologize if you feel I have crossed a line. If you can show me where I crossed a line in debating and disagreeing I would gladly retract. I haven't taken any personal shots at mr. Hardy and in fact have complimented him multiple times in this thread as an unbelievably nice man mwho I respect for his success.

[JetPilot]

This book has been an absolute game changer for me and my daughter. I ordered this book in December and have ready it probably 15 times and refer to it daily. My daughter was already a decent golfer, but has won 4 metro tournaments, placed well in some regional ones and has gone from mid 80's to upper 70's in tournament play. It's simple, powerful and accurate. I've found she can pick a target off the tee and rip it straight at it...and same with pins. Averaging 4 birdies per round.

 

Instead of thinking about swing positions, I feel like I'm free to react to the target. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about the golf swing...but for me I feel like it's a 100 mph fast ball thrown from the top of my swing. Since the swing plane is roughly oriented to 45 degrees....there's a vertical and horizontal component to the swing. From the top, I feel the left arm controls the downward vertical component and the right arm controls the horizontal around component. My left arm's job is to get down, vertical and to get the hell out of the way of my right arm that rips up the swing plane.

 

Now, this probably goes against all kinds of golf instruction...but man it has been good. It's kind of like shooting free throws or throwing a baseball pitch to a catcher. All I'm focused on is the target.

 

The biggest struggle I've had with this is making sure my right hand doesn't drop the clubhead (I guess that would be ulnar deviation).

[Golfbeat]

This book has been an absolute game changer for me and my daughter. I ordered this book in December and have ready it probably 15 times and refer to it daily. My daughter was already a decent golfer, but has won 4 metro tournaments, placed well in some regional ones and has gone from mid 80's to upper 70's in tournament play. It's simple, powerful and accurate. I've found she can pick a target off the tee and rip it straight at it...and same with pins. Averaging 4 birdies per round.

 

Instead of thinking about swing positions, I feel like I'm free to react to the target. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about the golf swing...but for me I feel like it's a 100 mph fast ball thrown from the top of my swing. Since the swing plane is roughly oriented to 45 degrees....there's a vertical and horizontal component to the swing. From the top, I feel the left arm controls the downward vertical component and the right arm controls the horizontal around component. My left arm's job is to get down, vertical and to get the hell out of the way of my right arm that rips up the swing plane.

 

Now, this probably goes against all kinds of golf instruction...but man it has been good. It's kind of like shooting free throws or throwing a baseball pitch to a catcher. All I'm focused on is the target.

 

The biggest struggle I've had with this is making sure my right hand doesn't drop the clubhead (I guess that would be ulnar deviation).

 

This could be a copy of what I would write about the RIT release. I have been consistently shooting in the 70s and shot 73 last week for a personal best this season. I have the same issue that I need hold off the ulnar deviation (un-cocking) but in my case I feel it is the left wrist which I need to control. Throwing the right hand feels so natural and intuitive. It also seemed to have cured my right hip thrust.

[hoselrocketman]

I'm not sure I understand this discussion any longer. What are you guys trying to prove/disprove?

 

FWP has access to 3d biomechanic data that indicates that Hardy's claims relative to RIT release are inaccurate. Got it...not what good players do.

 

In terms of forearm rotation, wouldn't this be along a continuum? Some swing/releases with more, some with less?

 

I would think strength of grip, path, pivot style, and shot type might influence the degree of forearm rotation we see in different swings...no?

 

Intents and feels run the gamut...

You are being far too reasonable and considerate! Cut it out!

[Silky]

This book has been an absolute game changer for me and my daughter. I ordered this book in December and have ready it probably 15 times and refer to it daily. My daughter was already a decent golfer, but has won 4 metro tournaments, placed well in some regional ones and has gone from mid 80's to upper 70's in tournament play. It's simple, powerful and accurate. I've found she can pick a target off the tee and rip it straight at it...and same with pins. Averaging 4 birdies per round.

 

Instead of thinking about swing positions, I feel like I'm free to react to the target. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about the golf swing...but for me I feel like it's a 100 mph fast ball thrown from the top of my swing. Since the swing plane is roughly oriented to 45 degrees....there's a vertical and horizontal component to the swing. From the top, I feel the left arm controls the downward vertical component and the right arm controls the horizontal around component. My left arm's job is to get down, vertical and to get the hell out of the way of my right arm that rips up the swing plane.

 

Now, this probably goes against all kinds of golf instruction...but man it has been good. It's kind of like shooting free throws or throwing a baseball pitch to a catcher. All I'm focused on is the target.

 

The biggest struggle I've had with this is making sure my right hand doesn't drop the clubhead (I guess that would be ulnar deviation).

 

Thank you JetPilot. Now I have a clearer concept of JH's RIT. I had his prior two books and may buy this one.

 

So, essentially is a clear and clean division of duties between the left and the right body. The left body is responsible for flailing action powered by the pivot through the left shoulder. For this objective, we aim the head of the club to the ground, not at the golf ball, but somewhere where the left arm is pointing at address. It is the right body responsibility for slamming the flail unit of left arm and club CCW and deliver the club face to the ball.

 

I have been searching for a natural move for a golf swing, appealing to our intrinsic abilities. RIT qualifies as such. It is a combination of two simple intrinsic moves. Flailing, hammering, axing are same move, IMO. Slapping, slamming, punching someone in the stomach are same move, IMO. Each can be independently and almost mindlessly performed, but combined provide a clean and uncompensated golf swing.

 

I think Jim Waldron mention this method of golf swing here and there in the forum. I did not fully understand him until now.

[JetPilot]

This book has been an absolute game changer for me and my daughter. I ordered this book in December and have ready it probably 15 times and refer to it daily. My daughter was already a decent golfer, but has won 4 metro tournaments, placed well in some regional ones and has gone from mid 80's to upper 70's in tournament play. It's simple, powerful and accurate. I've found she can pick a target off the tee and rip it straight at it...and same with pins. Averaging 4 birdies per round.

 

Instead of thinking about swing positions, I feel like I'm free to react to the target. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about the golf swing...but for me I feel like it's a 100 mph fast ball thrown from the top of my swing. Since the swing plane is roughly oriented to 45 degrees....there's a vertical and horizontal component to the swing. From the top, I feel the left arm controls the downward vertical component and the right arm controls the horizontal around component. My left arm's job is to get down, vertical and to get the hell out of the way of my right arm that rips up the swing plane.

 

Now, this probably goes against all kinds of golf instruction...but man it has been good. It's kind of like shooting free throws or throwing a baseball pitch to a catcher. All I'm focused on is the target.

 

The biggest struggle I've had with this is making sure my right hand doesn't drop the clubhead (I guess that would be ulnar deviation).

 

Thank you JetPilot. Now I have a clearer concept of JH's RIT. I had his prior two books and may buy this one.

 

So, essentially is a clear and clean division of duties between the left and the right body. The left body is responsible for flailing action powered by the pivot through the left shoulder. For this objective, we aim the head of the club to the ground, not at the golf ball, but somewhere where the left arm is pointing at address. It is the right body responsibility for slamming the flail unit of left arm and club CCW and deliver the club face to the ball.

 

I have been searching for a natural move for a golf swing, appealing to our intrinsic abilities. RIT qualifies as such. It is a combination of two simple intrinsic moves. Flailing, hammering, axing are same move, IMO. Slapping, slamming, punching someone in the stomach are same move, IMO. Each can be independently and almost mindlessly performed, but combined provide a clean and uncompensated golf swing.

 

I think Jim Waldron mention this method of golf swing here and there in the forum. I did not fully understand him until now.

 

 

Silky,

 

For me, I never feel that the clubhead drops...that's when I get in trouble with this swing method. For me, I feel that the handle finds the ground and the clubhead stays high. When I do this successfully, it's all one move from the top. My left arm drops downward and inward until it is vertical (straight up and down) around the little toe of my lead foot...and my right arm throws horizontally. Not sure if this is correct or not...but I feel the left arm is controlling the path and angle of attack and the right arm is just raw power.

[Silky]

This book has been an absolute game changer for me and my daughter. I ordered this book in December and have ready it probably 15 times and refer to it daily. My daughter was already a decent golfer, but has won 4 metro tournaments, placed well in some regional ones and has gone from mid 80's to upper 70's in tournament play. It's simple, powerful and accurate. I've found she can pick a target off the tee and rip it straight at it...and same with pins. Averaging 4 birdies per round.

 

Instead of thinking about swing positions, I feel like I'm free to react to the target. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about the golf swing...but for me I feel like it's a 100 mph fast ball thrown from the top of my swing. Since the swing plane is roughly oriented to 45 degrees....there's a vertical and horizontal component to the swing. From the top, I feel the left arm controls the downward vertical component and the right arm controls the horizontal around component. My left arm's job is to get down, vertical and to get the hell out of the way of my right arm that rips up the swing plane.

 

Now, this probably goes against all kinds of golf instruction...but man it has been good. It's kind of like shooting free throws or throwing a baseball pitch to a catcher. All I'm focused on is the target.

 

The biggest struggle I've had with this is making sure my right hand doesn't drop the clubhead (I guess that would be ulnar deviation).

 

Thank you JetPilot. Now I have a clearer concept of JH's RIT. I had his prior two books and may buy this one.

 

So, essentially is a clear and clean division of duties between the left and the right body. The left body is responsible for flailing action powered by the pivot through the left shoulder. For this objective, we aim the head of the club to the ground, not at the golf ball, but somewhere where the left arm is pointing at address. It is the right body responsibility for slamming the flail unit of left arm and club CCW and deliver the club face to the ball.

 

I have been searching for a natural move for a golf swing, appealing to our intrinsic abilities. RIT qualifies as such. It is a combination of two simple intrinsic moves. Flailing, hammering, axing are same move, IMO. Slapping, slamming, punching someone in the stomach are same move, IMO. Each can be independently and almost mindlessly performed, but combined provide a clean and uncompensated golf swing.

 

I think Jim Waldron mention this method of golf swing here and there in the forum. I did not fully understand him until now.

 

 

Silky,

 

For me, I never feel that the clubhead drops...that's when I get in trouble with this swing method. For me, I feel that the handle finds the ground and the clubhead stays high. When I do this successfully, it's all one move from the top. My left arm drops downward and inward until it is vertical (straight up and down) around the little toe of my lead foot...and my right arm throws horizontally. Not sure if this is correct or not...but I feel the left arm is controlling the path and angle of attack and the right arm is just raw power.

 

Jet Pilot,

 

I like your feel of clubhead staying high relative to the handle. From there, I would appeal to GG's tip of turn and extend. The extension shoots the lead shoulder upward to crank the clubhead downward through passive torque at the hands while the turn powers the right arm. Golf swing is 3d, in the around dimension, the right body sees the pivot the hands and the club head all rotate at the same RPM, while the left body sees the kinetic chain of whipping action in the up/down dimension. My understanding is the kinetic chain provides most of the clubhead speed.

 

Happy flying. :)

[HackerD]

Hello, I’m a long time student of Jim Hardy, know him well, and have a good understanding of THE RELEASE. Scanning the posts here, it appears as though no one has brought up perhaps the most significant aspect of the book, aside from its contribution relative to differentiating a lead arm outward pulling cross over release versus a back arm inward throwing release. If you read the book carefully, you’ll realize that the RIT or right inward throwing release action Jim presents in the book features no shaft rotation through the impact zone. This is a release in which the right hand throws the head from behind the player using extension to flexion with no right forearm rotation. It takes some learning because most of us have hit a million balls or more squaring the face with arm rotation, but once you get it down your impact consistency will soar. In an LOP release the face is squared with arm rotation featuring a high rate of club face closure, what Jim refers to as ROC. In the RIT Jim presents, you can achieve a very low ROC and thus a very stable face. This is what Matt Kuchar does and one big reason his ball striking is so consistent. There is gold in this book for both LOP releasers and RIT’ers.

 

Thanks for this post. I've realized my inconsistencies are related to release and high ROC as you describe. Gotta give this book a try.

 

Curious is there much overlap with what Clampett teaches in Impact Zone?

 

 

[mattwood]

Mr. Hardy's book and a previous lesson with Marty Fleckman have made a huge difference in my game. One of the biggest areas of improvement for me has been in the short game, where focusing on the right hand/wrist release allows me to hit the ball more shallow. I now practice regularly off packed hardpan/dirt, and I have a fairly good chance of hitting a decent shot instead of stubbing or thinning it. I've played golf for many years and nothing has come close to helping my game as much as this material.