Club face open at address?

[LOOK1979]

I started opening my club face a while ago. Immelman opens his club face as much as two degrees on all clubs.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

If I use a strong grip, on a good day (as once there was in May), everything I hit goes dead straight (especially when I try to fade the ball). Opening the face gives me a high ball flight, while closing the face gives me a low one. If I don't use a strong grip, everything starts hooking.

[golfer07840]

Bumping this up because my ball flight is fairly straight with a driver, slight draw. Very playable, no complaints. 

 

However, my ball flight with irons is starts straight and then bends left about 10 yards. Sometimes it's slightly off the toe, so I get the dreaded gear effect hook. 

 

I play Callaway Rogue irons. Not the Rogue X, as they were way offset, but these Rogues do have a little offset. Is it possible, by design I could be setting up closed? I generally don't hit low running pull hooks. 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, golfer07840 said:

Bumping this up because my ball flight is fairly straight with a driver, slight draw. Very playable, no complaints. 

 

However, my ball flight with irons is starts straight and then bends left about 10 yards. Sometimes it's slightly off the toe, so I get the dreaded gear effect hook. 

 

I play Callaway Rogue irons. Not the Rogue X, as they were way offset, but these Rogues do have a little offset. Is it possible, by design I could be setting up closed? I generally don't hit low running pull hooks. 

 

 

They're probably too upright. Modern clubs are too upright by design now to help hackers with their slice by having the heel interact with the ground first and turn the face over. Problem with this is you end up with better players either hitting a hook or raising the handle to compensate. 

[golfer07840]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

They're probably too upright. Modern clubs are too upright by design now to help hackers with their slice by having the heel interact with the ground first and turn the face over. Problem with this is you end up with better players either hitting a hook or raising the handle to compensate. 

Funny you mention being too upright.

 

3 years ago when I was testing new clubs, my swing was much steeper and they found that with the Taylor Made irons of that time (their name escape me) that upright +2 was best. 

 

Ultimately I decided to go with the Callaway Rouge Irons those apparently are flat (Callaway didn't have 2 degrees upright at that time). 

 

I've gotten better at swinging more shallow (Thanks Monte) so thankfully I didn't go with the +2 upright irons. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by golfer07840

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, golfer07840 said:

Funny you mention being too upright.

 

3 years ago when I was testing new clubs, my swing was much steeper and they found that with the Taylor Made irons of that time (their name escape me) that upright +2 was best. 

 

Ultimately I decided to go with the Callaway Rouge Irons those apparently are flat (Callaway didn't have 2 degrees upright at that time). 

 

I've gotten better at swinging more shallow (Thanks Monte) so thankfully I didn't go with the +2 upright irons. 

Standard is too upright. 

[golfer07840]

3 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Standard is too upright. 

 7I has a lie angle of 62.5 degrees. 

 

That's too upright? 😕

 

Would love some context on this. Not that I'm running out and replacing my irons, I'm just curious now. 

[Barfolomew]

Driver is only club I want opened face......

 

Rest square unless opening up a wedge for more height.  From a square address I play a cut or draw..... its such a small adjustment in swing to produce different results but driver open that up for the power fade

[GolfGrouch]

Malaska's explanation here.

[TheDeanAbides]

On 3/22/2021 at 6:34 PM, golfer07840 said:

 7I has a lie angle of 62.5 degrees. 

 

That's too upright? 😕

 

Would love some context on this. Not that I'm running out and replacing my irons, I'm just curious now. 

Sorry, just seen this and it's a massive thread revival. Clubs have become more upright over the years because it's a bandaid to help weekend golfers tame their slices. 

 

Clubs that are too upright will naturally lead to the heel making contact with the turf first which allows the wide open face most weekend golfers present to close a little as the toe rotates. 

 

The problem with this is that as golfers improve they learn to enter the hitting zone with a high handle to overcome this. Learning to play with clubs that are flat encourages a shallow downswing, much better face control and strike. 

 

I used to have mine 4* flat. 

[Cwebb]

10 hours ago, GolfGrouch said:

Malaska's explanation here.

 

Interesting that his estimate on how open he sets his driver at address is "4-6 degrees open".  Might sound extreme, but there are several tour players who want their drivers to measure that much open for face angle, so they don't have to turn the club open with their grip at address

[JCray33]

On 1/23/2022 at 1:36 AM, GolfGrouch said:

Malaska's explanation here.

 

Phenemomal video that completely cured my hook and pull hook misses. Crazy I've never seen this anywhere smh...

[1Ante]

On 4/17/2022 at 4:47 AM, JCray33 said:

 

Phenemomal video that completely cured my hook and pull hook misses. Crazy I've never seen this anywhere smh...

Agree 100% 

I am stunned. Surprised. Puzzled. Tried at the range yesterday and again today. Both short sessions, but something has happened. At the same time I adjusted to a less strong grip.   
 

[againstthegrain]

Will be lining up like Malaska suggests tomorrow.  Thanks for the link to both the article and video as well as others that explained it.

 

Been hitting crappy short-mid irons for months, although at times been hitting them well on the range.  I have been setting up square to closed to promote a draw, but it turned into months of failure.  

Edited August 20, 2022 by againstthegrain

[bdcava]

Years ago David Pelz put a camera on his hat to show what the club should look like at address. It looked waaaay open to me. I struggle with a closed club face resulting in low left shots. Doesn’t help the that my natural ball right is a draw. Also severely left-eye dominant. I sometimes wonder if that messes me up. If I tilt my head the perspective shifts dramatically so I don’t mess with that.

[Duff Specialist]

On 1/23/2022 at 12:08 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Sorry, just seen this and it's a massive thread revival. Clubs have become more upright over the years because it's a bandaid to help weekend golfers tame their slices. 

 

Clubs that are too upright will naturally lead to the heel making contact with the turf first which allows the wide open face most weekend golfers present to close a little as the toe rotates. 

 

The problem with this is that as golfers improve they learn to enter the hitting zone with a high handle to overcome this. Learning to play with clubs that are flat encourages a shallow downswing, much better face control and strike. 

 

I used to have mine 4* 

 

I just realized this and wonder how much it coulda negatively impacted my swing for so many years. I'm 5'10" but my "standard" lie irons are crazy upright at address with the 3 iron at 60.5 Naturally, my biggest swing faults are standing too tall at address and high handles at impact with misses being crazy hooks and heel drag fat shots....

 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, Duff Specialist said:

 

I just realized this and wonder how much it coulda negatively impacted my swing for so many years. I'm 5'10" but my "standard" lie irons are crazy upright at address with the 3 iron at 60.5 Naturally, my biggest swing faults are standing too tall at address and high handles at impact with misses being crazy hooks and heel drag fat shots....

 

Nervous systems are great at adjusting. That works both ways. If they’re forged have them bent 4* flat and you’ll soon start to adjust to deliver more correctly. 

[againstthegrain]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:57 PM, againstthegrain said:

Will be lining up like Malaska suggests tomorrow.  Thanks for the link to both the article and video as well as others that explained it.

 

Been hitting crappy short-mid irons for months, although at times been hitting them well on the range.  I have been setting up square to closed to promote a draw, but it turned into months of failure.  

 

Ok next step is a series of indoor lessons over the winter.  

[kasting333]

Bumping this thread again. 
 

I’ve been fighting setting up with a closed club face for years. It was a bandaid to fix a slice after a layoff and it has turned into more swing problems. 

When I square or open the club at address it feels like my path is way more inside on the takeaway.
 

It instantly made me swing more around my body rather than across. Even still setting up square feels very unnatural bc I’ve engrained this closed face/lift outside and cut across the ball swing. 

[uitar9]

I had been basically slicing (extreme fade if you like) every club.

 

I decided to see what my club face was doing.

 

Set up like normal, extreme slo motion, stopped at impact position. Found my club face quite open at impact position.

 

I don't have that many years left to change my swing (I'm 69 , started golf late in life with short life span in the family and just want to play and enjoy the time I have) so decided to change nothing.

 

All I did was , at set up, start with my club face slightly closed. I discovered , with my body type and swing, I come into the ball opening the face a little.

 

It made me wonder if I really see what I think I see when I look down at the ball. 

 

Made a world of difference to consistency and ball flight. I use slo motion all the time now, just to make sure I'm not falling into old habits.

 

[Mr_Wolfe]

A pro once told me that he plays his irons open so that if you drew a line at address (on the club face), the open-ness would point at his left heel. Watching the Malaska video above looks like his is the same.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 27, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[LowAndLeft32]

Sorry about bringing this thread up again. 
 

However I would be interested to know actual tour pros other than Nicklaus that addressed the ball with an open face.

 

TY

[ANimz]

On 11/22/2016 at 1:02 PM, scratch72 said:

Does anyone setup with their irons slightly open? I've read that you should because the face is going to be slightly closed before the ball leaves the face. The S&T guys talked about this in their book, just wondering if most players do it.

Morikawa does this.  Also, my brother was recently told this during a lesson.  He said he was fixed in 5 minutes.  My guess is that it would depend on the variables of your swing.