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New $500 Flightscope personal launch monitor (MERGED)


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I think at this point the biggest cost factor is software and patent restrictions. What would be interesting is a subscription type service where you can buy the unit with basic features for cheap, but then lets say for 1 month (or even 1 day) you want all the data points like AoA, shaft plane, face angle, etc. all the stuff the high end flight scope and trackman have, you pay like 100 bucks for the 30 days or whatever. Or in the winter maybe you want to play indoor sim golf, you pay x$ a month and have the course software and necessary data points. I think that would get a lot more people into the market while not making the pro market feel like they're getting the shaft.

 

As hardware gets cheaper and cheaper most tech companies are transitioning to this software model approach.

 

people would easily "jailbreak" it

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I think at this point the biggest cost factor is software and patent restrictions. What would be interesting is a subscription type service where you can buy the unit with basic features for cheap, but then lets say for 1 month (or even 1 day) you want all the data points like AoA, shaft plane, face angle, etc. all the stuff the high end flight scope and trackman have, you pay like 100 bucks for the 30 days or whatever. Or in the winter maybe you want to play indoor sim golf, you pay x$ a month and have the course software and necessary data points. I think that would get a lot more people into the market while not making the pro market feel like they're getting the shaft.

 

As hardware gets cheaper and cheaper most tech companies are transitioning to this software model approach.

 

people would easily "jailbreak" it

 

If that's the mentality, then you'd see hacks to open up all the Xi+ and Xi Tour data parameters for the regular Xi. Yes, some people with an Xi do have all the params, but it isn't commonplace like the other software theft in the world.

 

If anything, I'd hope that because this is golf, and we are supposed to be honest....people wouldn't consider reverse engineering their intellectual property.

 

I would like to see the subscription model that was flexible as mentioned above, this will be possible once there are more users but this is such a niche market that the costs to develop and manage such an ecommerce application may not be worth it to FS at the moment. We shall see.

 

I'm also with Howard. If they state that you need stickers for spin, it has to be a less powerful radar than the X2/x3 units only allowing for short range tracking. You essentially end up with an "indoor mode only" unit. This could be great for the market.

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Yes i think this is a modified 24 Ghz radar, just like the ones used as "parking alarm" on cars, and thats how they can push prices down to this level.

If it was a radar capable of measuring the hole flight, they would have added apex and descent angle, so every thing points in the direction of a short range radar, but thats more than good enough for most if Club speed, Ball speed and Launch angle is measured without to big difference to the more expensive professional units they make. Metal stickers might be a issue when used outdoor with balls who belongs to the range, but if they have a label (brand label or what ever print), it MIGHT work without. It does for Trackman indoor for most shots, when we align the Logo like it was a metal sticker. For High spinning clubs (irons and wedges) let the logo / sticker point strait up, while for drivers, turn the logo to about 2 o clock seen from the side, so the logo will be visible for the radar at address. This might work for this unit too, if not we must add a metal sticker and align the same way.

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I would think the use of the metal sticker indicates it can/will measure spin on the initial flight and the extrapolate the spin for the total flight based on an algorithm. The ES14 does not measure spin at all it just purely extrapolates based upon club selection and ball speed so the flightscope definitely has the potential to be more accurate as it at least will measure spin initially and pull its final number from that. Now if it can measure sidespin as well and extrapolate that into total distance and ball flight direction then that will be huge!! I have both the ES12 and 14 and this looks like it has the potential to easily replace them if more of their extrapolated data comes from true initial measurements. Definitely going to be following this. I went to the PGA show hoping to see this but they were only promoting the new x3 and made no mention of this whatsoever. I think this model would have garnered more attention at the show and possibly detracted from the hoopla of the new x3 and potential sales of the newer more expensive tool.

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I think at this point the biggest cost factor is software and patent restrictions. What would be interesting is a subscription type service where you can buy the unit with basic features for cheap, but then lets say for 1 month (or even 1 day) you want all the data points like AoA, shaft plane, face angle, etc. all the stuff the high end flight scope and trackman have, you pay like 100 bucks for the 30 days or whatever. Or in the winter maybe you want to play indoor sim golf, you pay x$ a month and have the course software and necessary data points. I think that would get a lot more people into the market while not making the pro market feel like they're getting the shaft.

 

As hardware gets cheaper and cheaper most tech companies are transitioning to this software model approach.

 

people would easily "jailbreak" it

 

If that's the mentality, then you'd see hacks to open up all the Xi+ and Xi Tour data parameters for the regular Xi. Yes, some people with an Xi do have all the params, but it isn't commonplace like the other software theft in the world.

 

If anything, I'd hope that because this is golf, and we are supposed to be honest....people wouldn't consider reverse engineering their intellectual property.

 

I would like to see the subscription model that was flexible as mentioned above, this will be possible once there are more users but this is such a niche market that the costs to develop and manage such an ecommerce application may not be worth it to FS at the moment. We shall see.

 

I'm also with Howard. If they state that you need stickers for spin, it has to be a less powerful radar than the X2/x3 units only allowing for short range tracking. You essentially end up with an "indoor mode only" unit. This could be great for the market.

 

Why the hell would you want to see a subscription model? This is one thing I don't understand. Why do I want to shell out $X just to have to continuously pay $Y to maintain usage. From a consumers standpoint, it's the stupidist freakin' thing ever. From a companies standpoint, I get it. It's the main reason I'll never own a SkyTrak. I'd rather pay the extra money and get an XI since like you said, there are ways to get XI Tour specs.

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I agree regarding SkyTrak's subscription model, in fact problems related to the subscription was one of the main reasons I returned SkyTrak.

 

I always intended to use SkyTrak away from home, either at the driving range or golf course practice area. I admit I am a bit of a mobile phone dinosaur, I have one but it's pay as you go with no mobile data, The Skytrak system, failed to store session data on about 75% of my sessions at the range, the problem was it couldn't authenticate my subscription away from wifi.

 

I realise the software has been updated a few times, so this problem might have been resolved. I still believe the subscription validation is retained by the Skytrak unit, which means the Skytrak unit needs to be switched on (at least briefly) to allow shot data to be reviewed. This operation was another reason I changed to the Flightscope Xi.

 

If only Flightscope offered launch angle and spin, for the Xi for a more reasonable price, (its slightly more than the current price of Xi+ to upgrade), the Xi would be absolutely perfect.

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I agree regarding SkyTrak's subscription model, in fact problems related to the subscription was one of the main reasons I returned SkyTrak.

 

I always intended to use SkyTrak away from home, either at the driving range or golf course practice area. I admit I am a bit of a mobile phone dinosaur, I have one but it's pay as you go with no mobile data, The Skytrak system, failed to store session data on about 75% of my sessions at the range, the problem was it couldn't authenticate my subscription away from wifi.

 

I realise the software has been updated a few times, so this problem might have been resolved. I still believe the subscription validation is retained by the Skytrak unit, which means the Skytrak unit needs to be switched on (at least briefly) to allow shot data to be reviewed. This operation was another reason I changed to the Flightscope Xi.

 

If only Flightscope offered launch angle and spin, for the Xi for a more reasonable price, (slightly more than the current price of Xi+), the Xi would be absolutely perfect.

 

If the price point ends up being what's rumored, maybe they are also coming out with a new pricing model for the other units as well. I have to think there are plenty of people in your shoes, so I'm sure the backlash would be pretty good if they were still keeping the same pricing. I would think that with the new units coming out, there would probably be a price drop on the lower units as well as a lot of offers to trade-in and upgrade to the new units. That's kind of been their pricing model in the past. Hopefully this turns out to be a plus for everyone.

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I think at this point the biggest cost factor is software and patent restrictions. What would be interesting is a subscription type service where you can buy the unit with basic features for cheap, but then lets say for 1 month (or even 1 day) you want all the data points like AoA, shaft plane, face angle, etc. all the stuff the high end flight scope and trackman have, you pay like 100 bucks for the 30 days or whatever. Or in the winter maybe you want to play indoor sim golf, you pay x$ a month and have the course software and necessary data points. I think that would get a lot more people into the market while not making the pro market feel like they're getting the shaft.

 

As hardware gets cheaper and cheaper most tech companies are transitioning to this software model approach.

 

people would easily "jailbreak" it

 

If that's the mentality, then you'd see hacks to open up all the Xi+ and Xi Tour data parameters for the regular Xi. Yes, some people with an Xi do have all the params, but it isn't commonplace like the other software theft in the world.

 

If anything, I'd hope that because this is golf, and we are supposed to be honest....people wouldn't consider reverse engineering their intellectual property.

 

I would like to see the subscription model that was flexible as mentioned above, this will be possible once there are more users but this is such a niche market that the costs to develop and manage such an ecommerce application may not be worth it to FS at the moment. We shall see.

 

I'm also with Howard. If they state that you need stickers for spin, it has to be a less powerful radar than the X2/x3 units only allowing for short range tracking. You essentially end up with an "indoor mode only" unit. This could be great for the market.

 

Why the hell would you want to see a subscription model? This is one thing I don't understand. Why do I want to shell out $X just to have to continuously pay $Y to maintain usage. From a consumers standpoint, it's the stupidist freakin' thing ever. From a companies standpoint, I get it. It's the main reason I'll never own a SkyTrak. I'd rather pay the extra money and get an XI since like you said, there are ways to get XI Tour specs.

 

No need to get upset.

 

1. Historically launch monitor software has been expensive to keep current. Look up the costs for buying the Foresight software, Flightscope PC software updates require an active support contract which is ~$1000/yr. Simulator software is also very expensive to buy outright. The initial buy in is very high.

 

2. When new major releases come out for Sim stuff, you normally have to pay a major upgrade cost (speaking for E6 since that is what I have for the X2) just to get the new version.

 

3. Unless you are fitting, a large portion of the time most people would use a $500 LM like this would be to get ball flight and simple launch conditions. Let's be honest, most people have no clue what to do with all the swing measurements.

 

They'd be fine with the basic data that could be provided by a simple one time fee app.

 

4. When there is a need for more club or ball information, it would be great to have the option to SUBSCRIBE to the additional parameters for a short period of time.

 

 

Nobody said anything about a pure subscription model. It could simply be a trimmed down Flightscope VX app for $10 as they have now, showing only basic parameters. Then when I need more info, pay another fee for some period of time.

 

I'd like the same for simulation. During the summer I don't need it, I'm playing outside, but if I could lease the software for a few months in the winter, I'd be much happier.

 

I agree that if you are going to use all the data all the time for the next 5 years, it isn't worth it. I deal with a lot of very expensive software and in most cases we buy perpetual licenses instead of subscriptions. It all comes down to the use case. While it may be "the stupidist freakin' thing ever" for you, you need to realize that there are many different types of consumers and having both models can bring more people into it. It just requires more investment in the programming and license management.

 

 

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From what I can read the major items this is missing is path, face, or launch angle.....kinda important stuff

 

It DOES measure launch angle.

 

The other stuff you're going to have to pay more than $500 for. Little bit of give and take here...can't ask for everything or expect it for cheap. What's point of higher end models and trackman then?

 

Flightscope is trying to compromise and give us something we've been asking for.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

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From what I can read the major items this is missing is path, face, or launch angle.....kinda important stuff

 

It DOES measure launch angle.

 

The other stuff you're going to have to pay more than $500 for. Little bit of give and take here...can't ask for everything or expect it for cheap. What's point of higher end models and trackman then?

 

Flightscope is trying to compromise and give us something we've been asking for.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

Sorry, I mistyped, I meant attack angle.

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From what I can read the major items this is missing is path, face, or launch angle.....kinda important stuff

 

It DOES measure launch angle.

 

The other stuff you're going to have to pay more than $500 for. Little bit of give and take here...can't ask for everything or expect it for cheap. What's point of higher end models and trackman then?

 

Flightscope is trying to compromise and give us something we've been asking for.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

I do find it amazing how people will whine and complain that they don't give you everything...when there aren't any other options in that price range at all. Until there are 3-4 players in the sub 2k price range with the quality of Flightscope, Foresight or Skytrak....I don't see us getting a lot of the other measurements for that price. Once someone else announces it, FS will be there and ready to enable the features. They could really be in a position to make a nice move.

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From what I can read the major items this is missing is path, face, or launch angle.....kinda important stuff

 

It DOES measure launch angle.

 

The other stuff you're going to have to pay more than $500 for. Little bit of give and take here...can't ask for everything or expect it for cheap. What's point of higher end models and trackman then?

 

Flightscope is trying to compromise and give us something we've been asking for.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

I do find it amazing how people will whine and complain that they don't give you everything...when there aren't any other options in that price range at all. Until there are 3-4 players in the sub 2k price range with the quality of Flightscope, Foresight or Skytrak....I don't see us getting a lot of the other measurements for that price. Once someone else announces it, FS will be there and ready to enable the features. They could really be in a position to make a nice move.

 

Who is whining?

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I think at this point the biggest cost factor is software and patent restrictions. What would be interesting is a subscription type service where you can buy the unit with basic features for cheap, but then lets say for 1 month (or even 1 day) you want all the data points like AoA, shaft plane, face angle, etc. all the stuff the high end flight scope and trackman have, you pay like 100 bucks for the 30 days or whatever. Or in the winter maybe you want to play indoor sim golf, you pay x$ a month and have the course software and necessary data points. I think that would get a lot more people into the market while not making the pro market feel like they're getting the shaft.

 

As hardware gets cheaper and cheaper most tech companies are transitioning to this software model approach.

 

people would easily "jailbreak" it

 

If that's the mentality, then you'd see hacks to open up all the Xi+ and Xi Tour data parameters for the regular Xi. Yes, some people with an Xi do have all the params, but it isn't commonplace like the other software theft in the world.

 

If anything, I'd hope that because this is golf, and we are supposed to be honest....people wouldn't consider reverse engineering their intellectual property.

 

I would like to see the subscription model that was flexible as mentioned above, this will be possible once there are more users but this is such a niche market that the costs to develop and manage such an ecommerce application may not be worth it to FS at the moment. We shall see.

 

I'm also with Howard. If they state that you need stickers for spin, it has to be a less powerful radar than the X2/x3 units only allowing for short range tracking. You essentially end up with an "indoor mode only" unit. This could be great for the market.

 

Why the hell would you want to see a subscription model? This is one thing I don't understand. Why do I want to shell out $X just to have to continuously pay $Y to maintain usage. From a consumers standpoint, it's the stupidist freakin' thing ever. From a companies standpoint, I get it. It's the main reason I'll never own a SkyTrak. I'd rather pay the extra money and get an XI since like you said, there are ways to get XI Tour specs.

 

Oh, boy, I guess I have to draw it in crayon... The cost of hardware is rapidly coming down. Doppler components and quality infared cameras and the like. Trackman has a patent on measuring spin/rotating parameters of a sports ball, any sports ball, using a doppler radar system. This means plotting the curve of a fastball, the rotations on a football, tennis, etc... If you use a doppler in you're launch monitor, or any sports ball measuring device, and want to use it in regards to measuring spin, you pay Trackman, or you are Trackman... That's why all these companies extrapolate spin data or use cameras and stickers... There's a huge point of cost right there. Not unlike a prescription drug before the patent window closes, after that... Generic... Any guy with a chemistry degree and some basic equipment can make those pills... But the IP and application research is where the real value is.

 

So let's say I can buy a Trackman unit, or Fligtscope unit for 2k, but with minimal data points activated, or even no data points activated. I'm paying for hardware. I can custom tailor what I need and when I need it by essentially renting software that's always current and on an on demand basis. I don't need a launch monitor all the time. Truthfully when I'm testing equipment or working on a major swing change or prep etc.

 

I would rather pay 2k up front for the hardware, which is nothing special at all. Then pay 100-200$ per month or even 10 bucks a day to turn on the data points when I need them as opposed to paying 20k+ plus yearly maintenance and licensing costs to have the whole thing ready to go 24/7 365.... The value is in the software... a kid at a local technical college can build you a doppler measurement system... The software to get the data out of it that you need and accurately is where the real value is.

 

It's a win/win. Trackman, Flightscope, whoever can go into the software business. No more dealing with inventory, shipping components, import/export, etc. Let someone else deal with that, or set up a seperate company. They just do knowledge product and software. The consumer can now get the real value product for manageable sized buy in therefore having access to a product or service that was previously outside of their grasp financially. And the company, in this case Trackman, seeing as they have to produce teh software anyway for their professional clients is increasing theyre revenue stream and influence (not to mention collecting data and selling it to Titleist, Bridgestone, Golf Digest, etc) By selling usage of a product that's just sitting there anyway already developed. People/pro's/golf shops etc. can still buy it up front and get the yearly deals if they choose, and obviously on an every day use basis that's the bargain, so you're high end and professional clients aren't pissed that Joe Dirt hitting off the top of his winebago while waiting for the nascar race to start paid way less for the same thing you did because he just paid for 1 day, or month etc. that when extrapalated out would cost 10x what they paid for the whole year....

 

Not many including myself have the scratch to lay out for a 20k purchase for personal use, that's why most trackman's are in the hands of someone using it as a commecial investment rather than a personal toy. There's big money in the personal golf toy market, and that has been largely untapped because of high cost and limited data points for the cheaper units....

 

So... Now... Do you understand?

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From what I can read the major items this is missing is path, face, or launch angle.....kinda important stuff

 

It DOES measure launch angle.

 

The other stuff you're going to have to pay more than $500 for. Little bit of give and take here...can't ask for everything or expect it for cheap. What's point of higher end models and trackman then?

 

Flightscope is trying to compromise and give us something we've been asking for.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

I do find it amazing how people will whine and complain that they don't give you everything...when there aren't any other options in that price range at all. Until there are 3-4 players in the sub 2k price range with the quality of Flightscope, Foresight or Skytrak....I don't see us getting a lot of the other measurements for that price. Once someone else announces it, FS will be there and ready to enable the features. They could really be in a position to make a nice move.

 

Who is whining?

There was another thread somewhere (either here or another forum) that people were complaining that it didn't give spin or "xyz". Don't really feel like digging around for the specific posts, but they will come up again. Most likely the same people who ask about hacking the software/firmware to show all values on the Xi series. Sorry...this is off topic.

 

Who has more data on this unit?

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In regards to putting the metallic sticker, do people think a Metallic Sharpie (http://www.sharpie.com/en-US/metallic-fine-point-permanent-marker-sp-00020--1) would work? I do have room for an indoor hitting setup and would like to use this at the range. I don't want to have to put a sticker on a bunch of balls but could easily mark them with a pen.

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Just got an email announcing it. It will cost $499 and will go on sale March 1st with shipping middle March. They will email additional information when it is available to order.

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Just got an email announcing it. It will cost $499 and will go on sale March 1st with shipping middle March. They will email additional information when it is available to order.

 

Unless you don't already own an iPhone apparently! :) I'm sure that will cause some sour grapes.

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Qi10 Tour 3W with shaft TBD
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Just got an email announcing it. It will cost $499 and will go on sale March 1st with shipping middle March. They will email additional information when it is available to order.

 

Unless you don't already own an iPhone apparently! :) I'm sure that will cause some sour grapes.

 

Are you inferring that it is only iPhone compatible? All the other Flightscopes seem to work with Android or iOS???

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I got the email from FlightScope confiming price of $499 and goes on sale March 1st and shipping 2nd or 3rd week of March.

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      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies
    • 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Tuesday #1
       
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Hardy - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Seamus Power - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Hadwin - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Kurt Kitayama - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nicolai Hojgaard - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Brandon Wu - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JT Poston - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Dunlap - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Alex Smalley - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pau Gasol WITB (2x NBA Champion, 6x All-Star) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Josh Allen WITB (NFL Quarterback, Buffalo Bills) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Matt Kuchar - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JJ Spaun - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Svensson - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Scott (mini) - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Taylor Moore - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      TaylorMade putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pebble Beach Golf Links (holes 7 & 8) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Odyssey putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Lucas Glover going to test black Srixon ZX5 & ZX7 irons - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Justin Thomas wrist training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Stephen Sweeney's Putting Ballistic putting training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Chris Kirk club changes - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies

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