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3w distance off the fairway


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You're a good player Pine. How do you choose which club to hit?

 

Based on your own experiences that have determined how far each club goes?

 

Or on someone else's study?

 

They've concluded that we all only remember our good shots, or we don't accurately remember distances.

 

So how do YOU choose a club?

 

I use a GPS app on my phone that tracks all my rounds. I objectively measure them. I don't rely on my memory. I'm sure you've overheard caddies telling PGA pros how far they hit it yesterday on certain holes. Why don't the pros just remember how long they feel they hit it? Why do they need the caddy to have paced it off the day before so they can tell them the next day?

 

There are certain shots where this isn't possible. It would be absurd to figure out how to hit, say, an 81 yard pitch based on this objective data. That is a feel shot. 3 wood carry off the deck is not a feel shot. That was the point of the study. We (meaning humans) are good at feeling tee shots and short irons (including sand irons). We're awful at remembering putts, long irons and 3 woods off the deck.

 

That's why I defended distance claims in the tee shot thread and think they are preposterous here. I've hit a 3 wood carry (longest of my life, I remember the shot) 288. If you asked my playing partners my 3 wood carry, they would likely say 260 or 270. That's 25-35 yards too long per GPS. They remember the bombs because they stick out in our brains. I don't doubt some of these people have hit massive 3 woods in their lives. But I don't believe they can hit it *ON AVERAGE* like a touring professional. I think they can hit it once in a while like a touring professional, maybe even a third of the time, but not on average.

 

No chance. None.

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To be honest, the long posts quoting endless stats and studies have forced me to stop reading them. They all say the same thing. I really don't care about what the studies say. Guess what, a recent study says that if look long enough, you can find a study that will support pretty much anything you want. ��

 

It's like Sloop said a couple of posts above, if people are willing to go after a shot that requires a 250 yard carryover a hazard, then (unless they're just being foolish) it's probably because they're confident they can do it. And do it on a somewhat consistent (i.e. Average) basis. The reason they're confident they can pull that shot off? Because they've done it, numerous times.

 

And contrary to the "studies", most good players do know how far the ball goes, both on good and not so good strikes. That stuff about people"forgetting", maybe the higher handicap does on occasion, but people don't get to be low handicaps by overestimating their distances. They get to be low by knowing how far the ball will go on a good, solid strike. And they play for that number.

 

I don't like to get into the distance numbers on here for a couple of reasons. 1: I play at almost 4'000 elevation so I know my numbers are a bit inflated, so not as viable and 2: I've never been in the landing area when my 3 wood(or any other club for that matter) lands, so I don't know exactly how far each club carries (but I've got 30+ years of experience to make a pretty educated estimate).

What I do know is this: I'm 53 years old and swing driver roughly in the 105mph range, and I have landed it on the green (numerous times) from 250+ yards out. So it's very doable. Would I try to carry it that far over a hazard? No, because I know that it takes a perfect set of conditions along with a perfect (for me)strike to do it. Not worth the risk.

 

But here's the thing. How many people out there are younger, faster, stronger, and hit it better and more consistently than I do? It's a BIG, BIG number. There's a bunch of them already posting in this thread. If a very average middle aged man can do it on occasion,why is it so hard to believe that there are a bunch of people that can do it on a consistent (or average) basis?

 

Fair enough, I guess. Since you can find a study for pretty much anything, I'd ask you to link to one that says golfers have great memories. However, if your position is "screw the research, I know what I know" then not much left to say.

 

The low cappers are good for the same reason they can make putts despite reading about 9 inches too little break on average. They can use their subconscious to get around with clubs that they overestimate. Low-cap ams are very very precise off the tee and with short irons. With aiming the putter and carry in low irons and 3 wood they are awful at diagnosing their own games.

 

But, like I said, if its "F the study, I know what I know" then not much left to say.

 

In the other thread where I got into a massive argument based on particular study (the Ditch the 3W? Thread) people were open to the idea that maybe - just maybe - they didn't have it all figured out and that people who dedicated multiple years of their lives to studying this *just might* know more. Much less open minded on this topic. Probably because it attacks masculinity somehow.

 

Doesn't have a thing to do with masculinity. It has a lot to do with my feelings on "studies". And yes, I do know what I know, when it comes to my own golf game, much like many of the posters in this thread.

 

They can conclude whatever they want, I go through each and every shot after virtually every round. And do it very objectively. I know how far I had on each shot, and I know the result. When the GPS and Laser both tell me I have 165 yards to the pin and my ball mark is pin high, I know how far it went.

 

I don't have " everything figured out", but when it comes to my own game, their "dedicated years of their lives to studying" don't hold a candle to my own 30 years of experience at playing my own game.

 

Sorry Pine, your responses are well thought out, well written, and very respectfully presented, and you stay very calm in presenting them. That is very refreshing here, but "studies" are a hot button for me. The amount of money wasted on what is crap. Really, people have spent years studying golfers to see if they accurately remember their shots?!

 

I'm sorry I just saw this post.

 

There were plenty of people in the sample pool who were able to objectively analyze their own games. Those people absolutely exist, and you could likely be one of them. I have no idea.

 

As I've said, we can only talk in generalities here. I believe 20% of these people. I think the remainder are deluding themselves. Again, i don't think they are lying. I think they honestly believe it. I just think that, based on tour averages and how well you have to strike a wood to get it up in the air for that long, its very unlikely a 12 cap is carrying the ball 270. I think he's fast off the tee and guessing at his off the deck yardage.

 

You are entirely correct that studies are only useful for studying groups, not individuals. That study tells me nothing about you specifically, but it tells me a whole lot about a group of 100 posters who play golf (IMO).

 

I could be wrong. Golf is just probability, and I think its probable I'm right (overwhelmingly so) but its possible we have ~45 elite amateur ballstrikers in this thread who arn't plus caps because they are horrendous putters. Its just unbelievably unlikely.

 

EDIT: Yes, it was part of a significant study about the mind of a golfer and the correlation to low scores. They did something similar at the same time for basketball and tennis. Actually, the most interesting conclusion of the study (in my opinion) was that a golfers handicap was almost 1:1 proportional with how much he thought about mechanics on the course. The better the player the less they thought about mechanics while playing. That changed how I approached the game and me quite a bit better. But that is obviously off topic. They found that after a given round an average golfer mis-remembered 38-40% of his shots *Within an hour of the end of the round*. They call it memory decay. All golfers of all skill levels suffered it. The only trait they found correlated directly to score was the ability to banish mechanical thoughts while playing.

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Unfortunately too many people respond to topics like this one as if WRX is compiling stats of its membership. The entire thread is useless other than to provide a launchpad for members to display egregious, not to mention colossally long-winded essays replete with errors in logic and reasoning, all regarding a matter that is ultimately of zero consequence to their own game, let alone one that when originally proposed provided no qualified variables that might have served to make at least some verifiable data useful. And of course, the ubiquitous accompanying barrage of macho pissing contests regarding distance claims and the doubter.

 

A thread suited to producing migraines so severe in the heads of informed readers who happen to be cursed with an unhealthy combination of curiosity and masochism, that they might prefer to slit their wrists instead of continually slapping their foreheads in frustration and disbelief from the turns this has taken.

 

That said, now that we've done this for the 3 wood, the 7 iron I believe, and certainly Drivers ad nauseum, can we move on to the next club in the bag?

Gap wedge perhaps?

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Eh why not contribute as a good ole mid-high handicapper with a surgically repaired shoulder and a moderate-slow swing speed. On those rare occasions I hit my 3W off the deck 205-210 if I just rope it. Much more likely it is 190-200. However, like many I would much rather hit my surefire 7W for 180-185 than risk the ole 3W off the deck. Oh and on the Gap Wedge, 95 yards like a metronome, unless I blade it 110, which normally happens into a pond to the right of the green after a beautiful drive.

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Eh why not contribute as a good ole mid-high handicapper with a surgically repaired shoulder and a moderate-slow swing speed. On those rare occasions I hit my 3W off the deck 205-210 if I just rope it. Much more likely it is 190-200. However, like many I would much rather hit my surefire 7W for 180-185 than risk the ole 3W off the deck.

 

That's like my L wedge. How far do I hit it? About 10-20 yards, maybe 30 sometimes.

 

As for hitting it with a full swing, why the heck would I do something as crazy as that?

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You're a good player Pine. How do you choose which club to hit?

 

Based on your own experiences that have determined how far each club goes?

 

Or on someone else's study?

 

They've concluded that we all only remember our good shots, or we don't accurately remember distances.

 

So how do YOU choose a club?

 

 

I use a GPS app on my phone that tracks all my rounds. I objectively measure them. I don't rely on my memory. I'm sure you've overheard caddies telling PGA pros how far they hit it yesterday on certain holes. Why don't the pros just remember how long they feel they hit it? Why do they need the caddy to have paced it off the day before so they can tell them the next day?

 

There are certain shots where this isn't possible. It would be absurd to figure out how to hit, say, an 81 yard pitch based on this objective data. That is a feel shot. 3 wood carry off the deck is not a feel shot. That was the point of the study. We (meaning humans) are good at feeling tee shots and short irons (including sand irons). We're awful at remembering putts, long irons and 3 woods off the deck.

 

That's why I defended distance claims in the tee shot thread and think they are preposterous here. I've hit a 3 wood carry (longest of my life, I remember the shot) 288. If you asked my playing partners my 3 wood carry, they would likely say 260 or 270. That's 25-35 yards too long per GPS. They remember the bombs because they stick out in our brains. I don't doubt some of these people have hit massive 3 woods in their lives. But I don't believe they can hit it *ON AVERAGE* like a touring professional. I think they can hit it once in a while like a touring professional, maybe even a third of the time, but not on average.

 

No chance. None.

 

I'm curious. You know your yardages are correct because you rely on GPS and not memory. But other people in this thread have said the very same thing and you go back to the study that says we can't remember accurately. I can say for certainty that I remember the 3 wood that ended in the green from 280 year. I also vividly remember the 3 wood that I hit low off the heel that got out there 100 yards.

 

And why would anyone care, or even ask for that matter, how far a person's playing partner thinks he hits a club?


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You're a good player Pine. How do you choose which club to hit?

 

Based on your own experiences that have determined how far each club goes?

 

Or on someone else's study?

 

They've concluded that we all only remember our good shots, or we don't accurately remember distances.

 

So how do YOU choose a club?

 

 

I use a GPS app on my phone that tracks all my rounds. I objectively measure them. I don't rely on my memory. I'm sure you've overheard caddies telling PGA pros how far they hit it yesterday on certain holes. Why don't the pros just remember how long they feel they hit it? Why do they need the caddy to have paced it off the day before so they can tell them the next day?

 

There are certain shots where this isn't possible. It would be absurd to figure out how to hit, say, an 81 yard pitch based on this objective data. That is a feel shot. 3 wood carry off the deck is not a feel shot. That was the point of the study. We (meaning humans) are good at feeling tee shots and short irons (including sand irons). We're awful at remembering putts, long irons and 3 woods off the deck.

 

That's why I defended distance claims in the tee shot thread and think they are preposterous here. I've hit a 3 wood carry (longest of my life, I remember the shot) 288. If you asked my playing partners my 3 wood carry, they would likely say 260 or 270. That's 25-35 yards too long per GPS. They remember the bombs because they stick out in our brains. I don't doubt some of these people have hit massive 3 woods in their lives. But I don't believe they can hit it *ON AVERAGE* like a touring professional. I think they can hit it once in a while like a touring professional, maybe even a third of the time, but not on average.

 

No chance. None.

 

I'm curious. You know your yardages are correct because you rely on GPS and not memory. But other people in this thread have said the very same thing and you go back to the study that says we can't remember accurately. I can say for certainty that I remember the 3 wood that ended in the green from 280 year. I also vividly remember the 3 wood that I hit low off the heel that got out there 100 yards.

 

And why would anyone care, or even ask for that matter, how far a person's playing partner thinks he hits a club?

 

To the second question, I agree. Nobody should care. I was specifically asked by the other gentleman about remembering playing partners' yardages.

 

Nobody else in this thread has said they are getting their yardages from actual measurements. That's why they are all "260" and "250" and "280" and "240". Exact, round, whole numbers. That's somebody approximating based on their memory.

 

Sure, with two shots, you'd get a good result using your memory. But if you play two rounds a week for five years, what you think is probably +/- 25 yards.

 

I get it. You think you remember accurately. You are very uncomfortable with the idea that your brain deals in categories and golf doesn't. You can see it in this thread. Its not "good lie" and "bad lie" "(one choice or the other) there are a million varying degrees of lie. There is no "long player" and "short player", there are varying degrees of length. Our brains hate this. Our brains work in categorization, not specificity, especially over a large data set.

 

Here's how the thought process goes (per the 1978 study on memory decay) -

 

1. Guy hits bombs off the tee

2. Guy thinks of himself as "long"

3. Other guy asks how long he is with 3 wood

4. Guy thinks "I'm long, and other long players carry 3 wood 260"

5. Guy answers 260.

 

EDIT: It doesn't have to be bombs off the tee. Guy develops "long" as his self-image and then filters everything through that lens, when in reality he's probably long with some clubs, worse with others, and horrendus with still others.

 

We don't do very well putting ourselves into grey areas. Most high swing speed ams - 80%+ - are massively long off the tee but can't consistently strike the ball well enough off the ground to have a massive carry average. But that isn't how our brain works. Our brain puts us in the category and, absent actual data over a long period of time, makes up a yardage based on which category our self-image is in.

 

Another good example is the guy at every club who scores badly because he is a "bad putter". Its actually almost impossible for bad putting to cost you more than about 2.7 strokes per round (Broadie study). However, that guy will come in and say "I shot 85" "why?" "can't putt dude". He has developed a self-image and constructs his post-round narrative to fit that self-image. That was the conclusion of the study. Very very few golfers were able to objectively analyze themselves without that self-image getting in the way.

 

A ton of 2-9 cap ams are fast. They have a self-image that they are long, which they are off the tee. So when someone asks how far they carry 3w they answer what they think a long player carries 3w. They can't strike the ball nearly that well off the deck though except once in a while.

 

One of the hardest things to do when trying to get better (IMO) is getting rid of your self-image as an 80 shooter, or a guy who can't putt, or a guy who always chokes, or whatever and deal with reality - which is that there are very few hard and fast rules in golf. Once someone brands themselves (or a playing partner) as "long" in their brain, they see everything through that lens. Its how our minds work and its why so many golfers (As a percentage) were so far off about their rounds - they forced the data into their self-image, where they are comfortable.

 

EDIT: If you've ever wondered what in the world some people are doing playing from the tips, its a good bet they have an incorrect self-image. They arn't saying "I stink but F it".

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Fact...

 

Gap Wedge, 50 degrees, 95 yards but I can hood it down and get 98-99.

 

Fact.

 

125 for me and I suppose I could squeeze 140 out of it if I hooded it and tried to get maximum distance out of it........why anyone would want to is beyond me.

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I was lamely trying to make fun of the guys who say they normally hit 3w 240 but can really go after it and get 270.

 

My own version of playing creative shots stops well short of hooded wedges. If I aim 20 feet right of the hole in a 15mph crosswind I feel like I'm really getting fancy with it!

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You're a good player Pine. How do you choose which club to hit?

 

Based on your own experiences that have determined how far each club goes?

 

Or on someone else's study?

 

They've concluded that we all only remember our good shots, or we don't accurately remember distances.

 

So how do YOU choose a club?

 

 

I use a GPS app on my phone that tracks all my rounds. I objectively measure them. I don't rely on my memory. I'm sure you've overheard caddies telling PGA pros how far they hit it yesterday on certain holes. Why don't the pros just remember how long they feel they hit it? Why do they need the caddy to have paced it off the day before so they can tell them the next day?

 

There are certain shots where this isn't possible. It would be absurd to figure out how to hit, say, an 81 yard pitch based on this objective data. That is a feel shot. 3 wood carry off the deck is not a feel shot. That was the point of the study. We (meaning humans) are good at feeling tee shots and short irons (including sand irons). We're awful at remembering putts, long irons and 3 woods off the deck.

 

That's why I defended distance claims in the tee shot thread and think they are preposterous here. I've hit a 3 wood carry (longest of my life, I remember the shot) 288. If you asked my playing partners my 3 wood carry, they would likely say 260 or 270. That's 25-35 yards too long per GPS. They remember the bombs because they stick out in our brains. I don't doubt some of these people have hit massive 3 woods in their lives. But I don't believe they can hit it *ON AVERAGE* like a touring professional. I think they can hit it once in a while like a touring professional, maybe even a third of the time, but not on average.

 

No chance. None.

 

I'm curious. You know your yardages are correct because you rely on GPS and not memory. But other people in this thread have said the very same thing and you go back to the study that says we can't remember accurately. I can say for certainty that I remember the 3 wood that ended in the green from 280 year. I also vividly remember the 3 wood that I hit low off the heel that got out there 100 yards.

 

And why would anyone care, or even ask for that matter, how far a person's playing partner thinks he hits a club?

 

To the second question, I agree. Nobody should care. I was specifically asked by the other gentleman about remembering playing partners' yardages.

 

Nobody else in this thread has said they are getting their yardages from actual measurements. That's why they are all "260" and "250" and "280" and "240". Exact, round, whole numbers. That's somebody approximating based on their memory.

 

Sure, with two shots, you'd get a good result using your memory. But if you play two rounds a week for five years, what you think is probably +/- 25 yards.

 

I get it. You think you remember accurately. You are very uncomfortable with the idea that your brain deals in categories and golf doesn't. You can see it in this thread. Its not "good lie" and "bad lie" "(one choice or the other) there are a million varying degrees of lie. There is no "long player" and "short player", there are varying degrees of length. Our brains hate this. Our brains work in categorization, not specificity, especially over a large data set.

 

Here's how the thought process goes (per the 1978 study on memory decay) -

 

1. Guy hits bombs off the tee

2. Guy thinks of himself as "long"

3. Other guy asks how long he is with 3 wood

4. Guy thinks "I'm long, and other long players carry 3 wood 260"

5. Guy answers 260.

 

EDIT: It doesn't have to be bombs off the tee. Guy develops "long" as his self-image and then filters everything through that lens, when in reality he's probably long with some clubs, worse with others, and horrendus with still others.

 

We don't do very well putting ourselves into grey areas. Most high swing speed ams - 80%+ - are massively long off the tee but can't consistently strike the ball well enough off the ground to have a massive carry average. But that isn't how our brain works. Our brain puts us in the category and, absent actual data over a long period of time, makes up a yardage based on which category our self-image is in.

 

Another good example is the guy at every club who scores badly because he is a "bad putter". Its actually almost impossible for bad putting to cost you more than about 2.7 strokes per round (Broadie study). However, that guy will come in and say "I shot 85" "why?" "can't putt dude". He has developed a self-image and constructs his post-round narrative to fit that self-image. That was the conclusion of the study. Very very few golfers were able to objectively analyze themselves without that self-image getting in the way.

 

A ton of 2-9 cap ams are fast. They have a self-image that they are long, which they are off the tee. So when someone asks how far they carry 3w they answer what they think a long player carries 3w. They can't strike the ball nearly that well off the deck though except once in a while.

 

One of the hardest things to do when trying to get better (IMO) is getting rid of your self-image as an 80 shooter, or a guy who can't putt, or a guy who always chokes, or whatever and deal with reality - which is that there are very few hard and fast rules in golf. Once someone brands themselves (or a playing partner) as "long" in their brain, they see everything through that lens. Its how our minds work and its why so many golfers (As a percentage) were so far off about their rounds - they forced the data into their self-image, where they are comfortable.

 

EDIT: If you've ever wondered what in the world some people are doing playing from the tips, its a good bet they have an incorrect self-image. They arn't saying "I stink but F it".

 

Quite frankly, I give up.

 

I'll continue to play shots with the clubs that correspond to the distance I need. And even though my ball will normally land pin high, I'll know it was probably the incorrect club because a study has show I really don't hit that club that particular distance.


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I cant believe you say gps for my scramble guys

 

These guys are seriously accomplished am's and mid-am's

 

Former NCAA all star .. one guy also w a nationwide event under his belt.

former Canadian club champion of champions, multiple course records .. wins club c by 20 shots shooting 68, 66, 63 is the second fella

Lastly, the gent w 2 PGA tour events and two US Senior opens under his belt

 

Ya, you're right .. these guys don't know how far they hit it !!!! Wow

 

The best is these national tourney players see loads of guys that hit it past them easily

 

I think I will stop responding. You're closed minded, don't seem to grasp the modern game and are repetitive in your points

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I cant believe you say gps for my scramble guys

 

These guys are seriously accomplished am's and mid-am's

 

Former NCAA all star .. one guy also w a nationwide event under his belt.

former Canadian club champion of champions, multiple course records .. wins club c by 20 shots shooting 68, 66, 63 is the second fella

Lastly, the gent w 2 PGA tour events and two US Senior opens under his belt

 

Ya, you're right .. these guys don't know how far they hit it !!!! Wow

 

The best is these national tourney players see loads of guys that hit it past them easily

 

I think I will stop responding. You're closed minded, don't seem to grasp the modern game and are repetitive in your points

 

Dude, I didn't say anything close to that. I have absolutely zero idea if your scramble partners know how far they hit the ball. In previous posts I *specifically said* that for anyone better than +2 all of this is inapplicable. You have said they are all +3 to +5, which means they probably *do* know how far they hit the ball, as I have said.

 

I have to keep repeating myself because people keep attributing ridiculous arguments to me and then arguing against them. I said most people, not all people. If I told you most people are under six foot six inches tall you wouldn't start yelling at me about your friend whose 6'7". Most people means most people.

 

"Most people" isn't a typo for "all people". "Most golfers don't know how far they hit the ball" isn't the same as "cardoustie's scramble partners don't know how far they hit the ball".

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Off the deck probably 220-240ish if I don't top the ball and it runs. I am looking at getting rid of my 3wood for this exact reason. Off the tee probably 240-250ish would be my guess if I catch it flush.

 

I haven't done a lot of 3W hitting on a TrackMan so exact numbers I am not really sure. Plus, I don't hit it enough on the course to accurately gauge real life distances.

 

I am really contemplating getting rid of the 3W for good. It is a club I only pull once or twice a round and I may be able to put a different club in the bag to fill that gap. Also, I am not confident looking down at it but I am supremely confident looking down at my 3Hybrid.

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Playing it off the turf, I am very conservative with its use unless there is no trouble. Off the turf I usually count on it carrying about 230 (being conservative with my yardage). Off the tee I can usually count on it carrying about 240, running out to about 250ish. If I am able to hit it those distances while hitting it straight I am just fine with that.

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Quite frankly, I give up.

 

I'll continue to play shots with the clubs that correspond to the distance I need. And even though my ball will normally land pin high, I'll know it was probably the incorrect club because a study has show I really don't hit that club that particular distance.

 

You "normally" land the ball pin high?!? That is insanely impressive. What is your handicap? Quite a few touring professionals can't do that.

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Honestly, my scores would probably be better if I left the 3-wood in the trunk. Yes I can hit a 3-wood very far but I can hit a 2 iron almost as far and a heck of a lot more accurately. I honestly don't think I've ever hit a 2-iron out of bounds but I've hit plenty of balls OB with a 3-wood. A typical 2-iron off a tee goes 245 to 255 depending on conditions. I can hit it pretty good off the turf too given the right lie. A bad miss with a 2-iron is a chunk that just doesn't go real far or a push cut that goes 240 but is 15 degrees off line and is generally playable.

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Honestly, my scores would probably be better if I left the 3-wood in the trunk. Yes I can hit a 3-wood very far but I can hit a 2 iron almost as far and a heck of a lot more accurately. I honestly don't think I've ever hit a 2-iron out of bounds but I've hit plenty of balls OB with a 3-wood. A typical 2-iron off a tee goes 245 to 255 depending on conditions. I can hit it pretty good off the turf too given the right lie. A bad miss with a 2-iron is a chunk that just doesn't go real far or a push cut that goes 240 but is 15 degrees off line and is generally playable.

 

If only there was a way to collect data and figure things like this out..... :wave:

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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I've given up trying to get the thick headed souls in this thread comprehend anything but the dream world they live in. Some of us hit 3w longer ON AVERAGE than the AVERAGE tour pro.

TaylorMade SiM 6.5* Graphite Design AD HD 6x Tipped 1"
Titleist TSR2+ 3w (C1) 12.25*  Tensei 1K Black 75x

Titleist TSi3 17* (C1) Hybrid Fujikura Motore Speeder Tour spec HB 8.8X 

Titleist U505 4i Mitsubishi MMT 105TX
Titleist T100S 5i-PW Mitsubishi MMT 105TX
Vokey SM9 48*F, 53*F, 58*S DG TI Onyx S400's
Artisan SS 0217 Putter
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/777451-518titleistx-2013-witb-warning-heavy-titleist-content-inside/"]WITB Link[/url]

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