KBS $-Taper

[DNice26]

2 hours ago, nova6868 said:

 

The profile is slightly different, the $-taper HT is lower launch, it's actually closer profile to C-taper.

 

I would agree with this.  I’ve played the HTs (S+) in my T100S irons for a bit now and would agree.  Its like a bit better feeling Ctaper.  

[BostonWRX]

I just got fit for these. Long time C taper stiff player. Excited to try them out. 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

22 hours ago, TrueWRX said:

I just got fit for these. Long time C taper stiff player. Excited to try them out. 

Fit for the HT for just standard $ Taper?

[BostonWRX]

6 hours ago, Brooks Cupcake said:

Fit for the HT for just standard $ Taper?

Standard 120 stiff 

[sadclevelandsports]

My $ taper experiment just ended, hook city for me, though I did come down to S from X so that may be the culprit. Or my lack of skills.

[Tdsjfb]

So KBS $Tapers are now $65/shaft? Up $10 from last year?

[tomuch23]

4 hours ago, Tdsjfb said:

So KBS $Tapers are now $65/shaft? Up $10 from last year?

Looks like everything in the kbs line went up significantly. 

[Seattlegolfnut]

@TigerInTheWoods haven’t played X100 but here’s what I can share. Over my years, I’ve played S300, then PX 6.0, then C Taper S. A high-ball sweeper with a bit of early release, though decently consistent ball striker. Have been in endless pursuit of lower ball flight and tighter dispersion. Each of those shafts I mentioned above gave me progressively tighter results but more boardy feel. Then two years ago I switched to $ taper S. Loved the feel; smooth and tight. Ball flight and spin definitely went up, and I lost about 5 yards from the C Tapers but the feel was much, much better. I switched from PV1 to AVX ball last summer and regained the lost distance. Over the winter I pulled the regular $ tapers and put in the HTs. Was intrigued from limited reviews on the web. Only have a couple winter rounds in the soggy Pac Northwest but from that and some extensive range time, I’m feeling like this is the Goldilocks shaft for me. Flight is down to be more penetrating, C taper-like, but feel is really smooth. I’ll have to see how distance works out as the temps warm up and the ground dries out, but encouraged I’ll switch back to PV1 this season.

 

Hope that helps some.

[Seattlegolfnut]

23 hours ago, Tdsjfb said:

So KBS $Tapers are now $65/shaft? Up $10 from last year?

I started my experiment with just a 7i shaft from KBS direct and it was indeed a dent in the wallet! Found a couple cheaper options via reputable online sales outfits...still a bit hard to pocket the price but really happy with the results I’m seeing. So maybe worth it? I try not to think about the price but hard not to when there’s a giant ‘$’ on the shaft band! 🤑

[ScottHutch2]

5 hours ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

@TigerInTheWoods haven’t played X100 but here’s what I can share. Over my years, I’ve played S300, then PX 6.0, then C Taper S. A high-ball sweeper with a bit of early release, though decently consistent ball striker. Have been in endless pursuit of lower ball flight and tighter dispersion. Each of those shafts I mentioned above gave me progressively tighter results but more boardy feel. Then two years ago I switched to $ taper S. Loved the feel; smooth and tight. Ball flight and spin definitely went up, and I lost about 5 yards from the C Tapers but the feel was much, much better. I switched from PV1 to AVX ball last summer and regained the lost distance. Over the winter I pulled the regular $ tapers and put in the HTs. Was intrigued from limited reviews on the web. Only have a couple winter rounds in the soggy Pac Northwest but from that and some extensive range time, I’m feeling like this is the Goldilocks shaft for me. Flight is down to be more penetrating, C taper-like, but feel is really smooth. I’ll have to see how distance works out as the temps warm up and the ground dries out, but encouraged I’ll switch back to PV1 this season.

 

Hope that helps some.

this is interesting. I played LZ 6.5, now playing C tapers 125s+. which I like and are great for my swing (playing my best golf ever), but they are not very much fun and hard on the elbows. Would like something a tad smoother, but hoping to keep the dispersion. what weight did you go to in the $ taper HT?

[Seattlegolfnut]

1 hour ago, ScottHutch2 said:

this is interesting. I played LZ 6.5, now playing C tapers 125s+. which I like and are great for my swing (playing my best golf ever), but they are not very much fun and hard on the elbows. Would like something a tad smoother, but hoping to keep the dispersion. what weight did you go to in the $ taper HT?

Playing 120 S. That was the same I had in the C-Taper and the regular (non HT) $-Taper. I like your description of “not fun” for the C-Taper shafts. That’s a great way to describe them. Got really good results with those shafts too, but felt like I had to work hard to move the ball. The $-Tapers (both versions) just have a real smooth kick. Maybe grab a 7 or 8 iron shaft and try one out?

[tee207]

What swing speed do you guys have that are swinging the 130’s? Looking to get the 125 or 130 HT’s but my fitter only had the 130’s to hit. 

[m4harrah]

1 hour ago, tee207 said:

What swing speed do you guys have that are swinging the 130’s? Looking to get the 125 or 130 HT’s but my fitter only had the 130’s to hit. 

Not sure if this helps but I’m right at 90/91 with 6 iron. I’ve got the 125 HT’s soft-stepped and they work well for me. They perform similar to my Project X 6.0’s just with a little more pronounced kick. I probably could get away with them straight in as well, but I play them in 5-GW and bought a 4-PW set so it just made more sense to do this instead of have to find an extra wedge shaft and get rid of the 4.

Edited March 15, 2021 by m4harrah

[AtlantaGolf3]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:39 PM, ScottHutch2 said:

this is interesting. I played LZ 6.5, now playing C tapers 125s+. which I like and are great for my swing (playing my best golf ever), but they are not very much fun and hard on the elbows. Would like something a tad smoother, but hoping to keep the dispersion. what weight did you go to in the $ taper HT?

Did you not like the Lz 6.5?  I am looking at $130s and LZ6.5. CTapers were nice, but don’t want to beat myself up. 6iron SS 93-94

[tee207]

3 hours ago, m4harrah said:

Not sure if this helps but I’m right at 90/91 with 6 iron. I’ve got the 125 HT’s soft-stepped and they work well for me. They perform similar to my Project X 6.0’s just with a little more pronounced kick. I probably could get away with them straight in as well, but I play them in 5-GW and bought a 4-PW set so it just made more sense to do this instead of have to find an extra wedge shaft and get rid of the 4.

thank you for the input. I’m 92-93 with a 7 iron. I’m deep into the CPM rabbit hole and wish I never got into it haha. I’m reading a lot of people saying the c taper feels stiffer yet CPM wise a 130 c taper is the same as a 120 $ taper. Can anyone shed light or experience in this department? 

[ScottHutch2]

4 hours ago, AtlantaGolf3 said:

Did you not like the Lz 6.5?  I am looking at $130s and LZ6.5. CTapers were nice, but don’t want to beat myself up. 6iron SS 93-94

The LZ in general I just didn't like. I think it was more bend profile than flex. the soft mid section just didn't work out for me. C tapers fit my swing well, but similarly to you I don't want to beat myself up too much. looking into the $tapers next

[tee207]

Another question from me- has anyone heard of the $ taper having the tip bending issues that the c taper had?

[Seattlegolfnut]

6 hours ago, tee207 said:

Another question from me- has anyone heard of the $ taper having the tip bending issues that the c taper had?

I didn’t have any issues in my C-tapers or in the regular (non-HT) version of the $-taper. I’ve heard some have. Thought I’d do a little measurement comparison. Here’s a 120g (S) 6 iron shaft of each. The HT on left, regular $-taper in middle, C-taper.

 

All .355 OD tips, IDs:

$-taper HT .278

$-taper .302

C-taper .307

Edited March 17, 2021 by Seattlegolfnut
Fix

[ScottHutch2]

On 3/15/2021 at 2:07 PM, m4harrah said:

Not sure if this helps but I’m right at 90/91 with 6 iron. I’ve got the 125 HT’s soft-stepped and they work well for me. They perform similar to my Project X 6.0’s just with a little more pronounced kick. I probably could get away with them straight in as well, but I play them in 5-GW and bought a 4-PW set so it just made more sense to do this instead of have to find an extra wedge shaft and get rid of the 4.

Looking at golfshaftreviews - the $taper HT S+ is actually same weighting as the Ctaper S. both 123g in the 6iron. I am going to give these a shot and see how I like them. 

[Seattlegolfnut]

2 hours ago, ScottHutch2 said:

Looking at golfshaftreviews - the $taper HT S+ is actually same weighting as the Ctaper S. both 123g in the 6iron. I am going to give these a shot and see how I like them. 

The HT is best shaft of the bunch for me. Really a good blend of C taper flight and orig $ taper feel.

 

KBS weighting seems to be a little bit of a boxed in range, not tight tolerances like DG Tour Issue. From my set of HT S’s, 8i was lightest at 117.94g and 5i was heaviest at 121.52. All others in between. I sorta recall similar thing when I had the regular $ tapers and C-Tapers. Point being, both C-taper S+ and $-taper S+ are ~125. It’s not out the box, sorta speak, to think that Russ got a heavier C taper S and a lighter $-taper HT shaft.

[ScottHutch2]

26 minutes ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

The HT is best shaft of the bunch for me. Really a good blend of C taper flight and orig $ taper feel.

 

KBS weighting seems to be a little bit of a boxed in range, not tight tolerances like DG Tour Issue. From my set of HT S’s, 8i was lightest at 117.94g and 5i was heaviest at 121.52. All others in between. I sorta recall similar thing when I had the regular $ tapers and C-Tapers. Point being, both C-taper S+ and $-taper S+ are ~125. It’s not out the box, sorta speak, to think that Russ got a heavier C taper S and a lighter $-taper HT shaft.

Fair enough. i will be cognizant of that. I was originally fitted into 125s+ for the Ctaper and moved down to S due to the amount it took to move the club. $taper I tried in 130x and liked, but could not get with the high balance point. Will test HT in 125 to start, hoping it will be happy medium. with a plan B of moving down to 120 if need be.

[wobgon]

How do the $-taper 130's play stiffness wise to x-100's......Anyone know the cpm of the $-taper 130?

[toddmanley]

23 minutes ago, wobgon said:

How do the $-taper 130's play stiffness wise to x-100's......Anyone know the cpm of the $-taper 130?

Good question - sorry I can't give you an answer but curious to learn from others too.

 

However, I can give some experience on my recent move from $-Taper 120 to DG TI X100 (went stiffer as my 6-iron SS has gone up from ~91mph to 96mph).  For me the change felt like the kick-point on the shaft moved up on the X100's and the tip was stiffer and more stable.  I've gone from slight draws to straight shots with the $-Taper's to straight to slight fades with the X100's.  I'm finding the fade is something nice to have as I was sometimes over cooking the draw on approach shots where I could feel the tip on the $-Taper's being a bit to active thru impact.

[hartrick11]

Does any OEM offer the HT yet? I figured Cobra might since they are one of the best with KBS options, but it doesn't show up on the website...

[Seattlegolfnut]

4 hours ago, hartrick11 said:

Does any OEM offer the HT yet? I figured Cobra might since they are one of the best with KBS options, but it doesn't show up on the website...

 

Haven’t seen any stock offerings. Golfworks doesn’t even carry them aftermarket. There’s at least one online outlet that sells them drop shipped from KBS.

 

Real sleeper for a shaft that is essentially a tour version of one put to the masses. I don’t really get the KBS marketing on this one. Almost like they don’t want to sell it. Crazy expensive, the HT easily confused with high trajectory (which it definitely isn’t), on top of already confusing $ vs S. It works for me though. Glad I found it.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Seattlegolfnut

[ScottHutch2]

Update: tested the $taper HTs in my 6 iron for about two weeks (thanks @Seattlegolfnut) and I have decided to reshaft the whole set. They are similar enough to the C taper that it won't be a huge change for me, but the feel these shafts have are miles better than the C taper. I should be finished with reshafting the rest of the set sometime today and will take them out on the course in a day or two. In the early testing I picked up some height and spin with my 6 iron, with that came an additional few yards of carry. the trajectory is still in the lowish to mid window, no ballooning. I am excited about these shafts and wish KBS did some more/better marketing for these. I think these could be a great shaft for a lot of ppl. Also find it curious that none of the youtube guys have done any reviews on these. They are a well kept secret that encourage everyone to try.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

@ScottHutch2 @Seattlegolfnut

Gents, with a build of traditional $ Taper 130 (not HT) and then reshafting (all specs being equal) to C Taper 125’s, what would the Swingweight come out to be with the new build (125’s)?

 

[Seattlegolfnut]

11 hours ago, Brooks Cupcake said:

@ScottHutch2 @Seattlegolfnut

Gents, with a build of traditional $ Taper 130 (not HT) and then reshafting (all specs being equal) to C Taper 125’s, what would the Swingweight come out to be with the new build (125’s)?

 

The biggest contributor is the balance point, not so much the shaft weight.

 

The C-Tapers are 49-50% balance point. The $-Tapers more like 47-48%. The HTs around 50-51% (measured from the butt -- higher % is more tip heavy, lower % more butt heavy or "counterbalanced" ). Really rough rule of thumb for estimating a typical steel iron shaft is 1% = 1 SW pt. So you'll likely see change in the +1 to +3 SW point range; let's call it +2.

 

For the shaft weight, need to factor in the tolerance bands around the marketed number. You'll find 130s weigh something 128g - 131g, and 125s generally in the range of 123g - 127g. So one plausible scenario is that you replace a lighter-end 130 with a heavier-end 125. In this case, a gram or two difference would render negligible in the SW calc. Going the other way would result in at most a point. So I think -0.5 is a good estimate.

 

From all that, educated guess is around +1.5 SW change.

 

P.S. My BP and weight numbers are from a couple dozen different shaft lengths and weights across these shaft families. So I don't have a ton of data, but enough to extrapolate a general conclusion.

 

 

[Justapitchandaputt]

I went from KBS Tour 125 S+ to $ Taper 125 S+ for 3 months.

 

They felt a little more stable in the long irons, but I had an issue with pulling everything left and had inconsistent turf interaction issues. 

 

Ultimately went back to the Tours

[Seattlegolfnut]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:42 PM, Seattlegolfnut said:

@TigerInTheWoods haven’t played X100 but here’s what I can share. Over my years, I’ve played S300, then PX 6.0, then C Taper S. A high-ball sweeper with a bit of early release, though decently consistent ball striker. Have been in endless pursuit of lower ball flight and tighter dispersion. Each of those shafts I mentioned above gave me progressively tighter results but more boardy feel. Then two years ago I switched to $ taper S. Loved the feel; smooth and tight. Ball flight and spin definitely went up, and I lost about 5 yards from the C Tapers but the feel was much, much better. I switched from PV1 to AVX ball last summer and regained the lost distance. Over the winter I pulled the regular $ tapers and put in the HTs. Was intrigued from limited reviews on the web. Only have a couple winter rounds in the soggy Pac Northwest but from that and some extensive range time, I’m feeling like this is the Goldilocks shaft for me. Flight is down to be more penetrating, C taper-like, but feel is really smooth. I’ll have to see how distance works out as the temps warm up and the ground dries out, but encouraged I’ll switch back to PV1 this season.

 

Hope that helps some.

I know it's uncouth to quote your own post but had a couple folks PM since I wrote this two months ago. Asking how the HTs are working out.

 

I've posted 8 rounds with the HTs and the 2019 ProV1 ball this season. I'm playing my old carry distances from the PXs and C-Tapers. So the lower spin and launch (lower than the regular $-Tapers) seems to be working in my favor and I'll say goodbye to the AVX ball unless, perhaps, some super windy conditions.

 

I recently increased the HT shaft weights at the bottom end of my bag.

 

On initial install, I used the same ~120g 37.5" (uncut) 9i/W shaft in my 41^* 9i, 45^* PW, 48^* and 52^* wedges. The PW is 3/8" shorter than the 9 and the wedges are both the same length (same head weights) at 3/8" shorter than the PW. I play all these clubs 3/4 and full shots, and occasional chipping with the 52^*. Was struggling with low point control on the 3/4 shots. I've learned in the past that when swingweight gets too high for my tempo, I have more of a tendency to flip the more hefty head at the ball.

 

So I stepped up from the 120g to the 125g in the PW, and put the 130g in both the wedges. I reduced a bit of the tip weights to keep the same overall club weight from before (for tempo), but more percentage of the weight in the shaft than the head. So far seems more stable and consistent on 3/4 swings and still have good feel and feedback on the full shots.