Shoulder turn + (left knee bend + right leg straighten) = Backswing

[SunkTheBirdie]

There isn't another definition of deep. Most never get right shoulder deep enough. And it's not even close.

Right shoulder in relation to right foot from DTL.

 

 

As far as I can tell, the people with the deepest right shoulder are the ones with a flat inside takeaway.

 

At P4, if you increase the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder closer to the ball target line ?

At P4, if you decrease the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder further to the ball target line ?

[iteachgolf]

There isn't another definition of deep. Most never get right shoulder deep enough. And it's not even close.

Right shoulder in relation to right foot from DTL.

 

 

As far as I can tell, the people with the deepest right shoulder are the ones with a flat inside takeaway.

 

At P4, if you increase the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder closer to the ball target line ?

At P4, if you decrease the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder further to the ball target line ?

 

Not really no. You don't just increase left side bend or you'd fall over toward. As you increase left side bend your right side will get deeper in order to maintain balance. You're making up hypotheticals that don't happen in the real word. One move causes an inverse reaction somewhere else to maintain balance.

 

Find me a bunch of actual swings where someone's right shoulder is too deep at the top of the swing. Most people have a flat and inside takeaway have flat shoulders but the right side isn't too deep. Generally not deep enough. The stills of Monte are worthless and not relevant as they aren't an actual swing anyone would make.

 

Right leg straightening doesn't mean you'll get right hip deep. Which swing has a deeper right hip and shoulder? Which one has a more bent right knee?

 

[SunkTheBirdie]

There isn't another definition of deep. Most never get right shoulder deep enough. And it's not even close.

Right shoulder in relation to right foot from DTL.

 

 

As far as I can tell, the people with the deepest right shoulder are the ones with a flat inside takeaway.

 

At P4, if you increase the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder closer to the ball target line ?

At P4, if you decrease the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder further to the ball target line ?

 

Not really no. You don't just increase left side bend or you'd fall over toward. As you increase left side bend your right side will get deeper in order to maintain balance. You're making up hypotheticals that don't happen in the real word. One move causes an inverse reaction somewhere else to maintain balance.

 

Find me a bunch of actual swings where someone's right shoulder is too deep at the top of the swing.

 

 

This is the first thing I came across. I can find actual swings if you want. But this guy demonstrates the swings I would find.

http://www.mytpi.com/improve-my-game/swing-characteristics/flat-shoulder-plane_v2

[bph7]

Op, you asked for feedback. Most of it is negative about your drill/idea. Maybe you just missed the mark with this one?

[SunkTheBirdie]

Op, you asked for feedback. Most of it is negative about your drill/idea. Maybe you just missed the mark with this one?

Huh ? Seems premature.

 

And we are talking about something else for now.

 

Why don't you weigh in as well ... does a flat shoulder plane result in a deeper or less deep right shoulder ?

 

So far I don't get where iteach is coming from.

And I'll have to re-read the criticisms to see if I understand them. I dont mind being wrong but ideally I understand why I am wrong. If I ask for clarification, would that be OK ? :)

[iteachgolf]

There isn't another definition of deep. Most never get right shoulder deep enough. And it's not even close.

Right shoulder in relation to right foot from DTL.

 

 

As far as I can tell, the people with the deepest right shoulder are the ones with a flat inside takeaway.

 

At P4, if you increase the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder closer to the ball target line ?

At P4, if you decrease the left side bend, isn't your right shoulder further to the ball target line ?

 

Not really no. You don't just increase left side bend or you'd fall over toward. As you increase left side bend your right side will get deeper in order to maintain balance. You're making up hypotheticals that don't happen in the real word. One move causes an inverse reaction somewhere else to maintain balance.

 

Find me a bunch of actual swings where someone's right shoulder is too deep at the top of the swing.

 

 

This is the first thing I came across. I can find actual swings if you want. But this guy demonstrates the swings I would find.

http://www.mytpi.com/improve-my-game/swing-characteristics/flat-shoulder-plane_v2

 

Again nobody does that, his right shoulder is below his left and his head was over his heels at the top of the swing. His hips were closer to the ball than his head was.

 

Find me a swing where the right shoulder is too deep at the top of the backswing.

[iteachgolf]

 

This is what a flat shoulder turn looks like it real life. His right shoulder isn't too deep at all.

[Ghost of Snead]

Op, you asked for feedback. Most of it is negative about your drill/idea. Maybe you just missed the mark with this one?

Huh ? Seems premature.

 

And we are talking about something else for now.

 

Why don't you weigh in as well ... does a flat shoulder plane result in a deeper or less deep right shoulder ?

 

So far I don't get where iteach is coming from.

And I'll have to re-read the criticisms to see if I understand them. I dont mind being wrong but ideally I understand why I am wrong. If I ask for clarification, would that be OK ? :)

 

What is your definition of deeper ? Distance from the target line ?

[SunkTheBirdie]

What is your definition of deeper ? Distance from the target line ?

yes.

 

 

This is what a flat shoulder turn looks like it real life. His right shoulder isn't too deep at all.

 

That right shoulder looks very deep to me.

Deeper than it should be.

Not the best angle either.

Certainly not down the toe line.

 

Still pictures are misleading. Find me a video where a flat shoulder turn results in the right shoulder being less deep than a proper shoulder turn.

[Ghost of Snead]

What is your definition of deeper ? Distance from the target line ?

yes.

 

The deepest part of any should turn should be the point where the shoulders are perpendicular to the target line. Assuming that and based on spine angle, the trail shoulder will be further away from the target line for a player who stands up straighter than one more bent over. But that does not mean the shoulder turns are not equally deep.

[SunkTheBirdie]

The deepest part of any shoulder turn should be the point where the shoulders are perpendicular to the target line.

OK.

 

Assuming that and based on spine angle, the trail shoulder will be further away from the target line for a player who stands up straighter than one more bent over.

OK.

 

Like this kid.

 

 

 

But that does not mean the shoulder turns are not equally deep.

HUH ???

Note: the discussion is about how far the right shoulder is from the ball target line.

And you say, standing up doesn't result in the right shoulder being further from the ball target line ?

[iteachgolf]

What is your definition of deeper ? Distance from the target line ?

yes.

 

 

This is what a flat shoulder turn looks like it real life. His right shoulder isn't too deep at all.

 

That right shoulder looks very deep to me.

Deeper than it should be.

Not the best angle either.

Certainly not down the toe line.

 

Still pictures are misleading. Find me a video where a flat shoulder turn results in the right shoulder being less deep than a proper shoulder turn.

 

Then there is no point in arguing. The angle is making it look more deep than it is and it's still not too deep. It's between the arch of his foot and his heel. It's not deeper than it should be. You believe whatever you want.

 

Literally first video that came up when I searched. Shoulder turn too flat and right shoulder not deep enough. It's quite common.

 

 

You think you know more than you do and argue with people trying to tell you why you're wrong, including those who have a much larger depth of knowledge than you have.

[SunkTheBirdie]

Literally first video

Can I have a link to the video ?

[Ghost of Snead]

The deepest part of any shoulder turn should be the point where the shoulders are perpendicular to the target line.

OK.

 

Assuming that and based on spine angle, the trail shoulder will be further away from the target line for a player who stands up straighter than one more bent over.

OK.

 

Like this kid.

 

 

 

But that does not mean the shoulder turns are not equally deep.

HUH ???

Note: the discussion is about how far the right shoulder is from the ball target line.

And you say, standing up doesn't result in the right shoulder being further from the ball target line ?

 

Who said that ? The deepness of a shoulder turn is relatively to that golfer only based on spine angle. Just because someone's trail shoulder is farther from the target line doesn't mean their shoulder turn is deeper.

[iteachgolf]

Literally first video

Can I have a link to the video ?

 

Go find it yourself. It took me 30 seconds. You want everything given to you. Take 5 seconds and look for yourself. You still haven't show a swing that has the right shoulder too deep, and inline with right heel isn't close to too deep and extremely common among the best players in the world.

[SunkTheBirdie]

Who said that ? The deepness of a shoulder turn is relatively to that golfer only based on spine angle. Just because someone's trail shoulder is farther from the target line doesn't mean their shoulder turn is deeper.

By iteach's definition it is.

 

Overwhelming majority don't get the right shoulder deep enough in the backswing. Extremely rare too see someone with a right shoulder that is too deep

 

Are we using different definitions of deep ?

 

Deep to me is ... distance from the ball target line (along the ground).

 

There isn't another definition of deep. Most never get right shoulder deep enough. And it's not even close.

 

Go find it yourself. It took me 30 seconds.

I searched and can't find that exact one. The URL is in your browser history ... can't be that hard to find.

[Ghost of Snead]

Go find it yourself. It took me 30 seconds.

I searched and can't find that exact one. The URL is in your browser history ... can't be that hard to find.

 

Keep searching even if it takes a month or two.

[iteachgolf]

Go find it yourself. It took me 30 seconds.

I searched and can't find that exact one. The URL is in your browser history ... can't be that hard to find.

 

Keep searching even if it takes a month or two.

 

It's not hard to find. I have zero desire to help you whatsoever. I'm not gonna loft a finger to force feed you. You asked to me to show a flat shoulder turn where the right shoulder wasn't deep enough. Took 30 seconds to find one. You still haven't posted a swing with a right shoulder that's too deep

[SunkTheBirdie]

You didn't provide the video. I'd be happy to provide the video. I have already provided video of 2 other instructors demonstrating my point but I'll provide the video.

[Shilgy]

Not sure why I am entering this fray but Sunk I gotta ask-- If a player stands up in his backswing, which would move his right shoulder further from the ball at the top of the swing as the kid in Iteach's post #66 does, do you really think that is getting the shoulder deeper? Or if the player in post #71 stood up to get his right shoulder further from the ball? You really think that is what Iteach is saying? Don't be that guy.

[Ghost of Snead]

You didn't provide the video. I'd be happy to provide the video. I have already provided video of 2 other instructors demonstrating my point but I'll provide the video.

 

Do you have any video of you as an instructor demonstrating your point ?

[iteachgolf]

You didn't provide the video. I'd be happy to provide the video. I have already provided video of 2 other instructors demonstrating my point but I'll provide the video.

 

No you haven't. You provided ridiculous exaggerations and not swings. I told you to post a swing with a right shoulder that is too deep. You claim it's a big problem so should be easy to find. I could post literally thousands with the right shoulder not deep enough

 

 

Again search for the video. Takes 2 seconds. It's obviously a Mark Crossfield video as his head pretty big and obvious in the frame.

[SunkTheBirdie]

 

 

 

I have lots of others as well, but it's tough to find good camera angles.

[iteachgolf]

 

 

 

I have lots of others as well, but it's tough to find good camera angles.

 

You don't have any. None of those have right shoulder too deep. Right shoulder is inline with the heel/ankle and the one is in.ine with the arch of the foot. They are too flat but not too deep. You haven't provided any evidence.

[jut111]

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http://www.dailymoti...video/x5hpg7g

 

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I have lots of others as well, but it's tough to find good camera angles.

 

Dude just tap out. It's okay.

[SunkTheBirdie]

You don't have any. None of those have right shoulder too deep. Right shoulder is inline with the heel/ankle and the one is in.ine with the arch of the foot. They are too flat but not too deep. You haven't provided any evidence.

LOL. Please.

They are all too deep. Flat and deep. Deeper than they should be.

[Jacob Mac]

I will give you this, your trolling is really good

[Ghost of Snead]

You don't have any. None of those have right shoulder too deep. Right shoulder is inline with the heel/ankle and the one is in.ine with the arch of the foot. They are too flat but not too deep. You haven't provided any evidence.

LOL. Please.

They are all too deep. Flat and deep. Deeper than they should be.

 

According to your standards, this guy is too deep ...

 

[SunkTheBirdie]

You don't have any. None of those have right shoulder too deep. Right shoulder is inline with the heel/ankle and the one is in.ine with the arch of the foot. They are too flat but not too deep. You haven't provided any evidence.

LOL. Please.

They are all too deep. Flat and deep. Deeper than they should be.

 

According to your standards, this guy is too deep ...

 

 

Bad Camera angle.

[iteachgolf]

You don't have any. None of those have right shoulder too deep. Right shoulder is inline with the heel/ankle and the one is in.ine with the arch of the foot. They are too flat but not too deep. You haven't provided any evidence.

LOL. Please.

They are all too deep. Flat and deep. Deeper than they should be.

 

They are literally over the ankle or the arch of the foot. Not even close to too deep. You obviously don't know what you're looking at.

 

 

Is this too deep? Because he's deeper than all of them.