Some Things Wisconsin Golf

[JoeHatesSnow]

Lol, this is largely true. Accuracy is definitely more of a premium than length. Shots that are skirting the edge do tend to find the woods more often than not. Its as if the edges slope down a bit. I still find it a fun layout though I've had some struggle rounds.

[J_Birdie]

Playing Erin tomorrow at 10am. Hoping for dry weather!

[SDL]

I recently had a chance to play Whistling Straits and Erin Hills, which completed my plan to play all of the courses I consider the "Big 5" of public access courses in Wisconsin. (I'll leave Lawsonia for others to debate since I haven't played it yet and it rarely makes a showing on modern "best of state" lists.)

I'm in general agreement with the ranking that BG5 listed a few days ago:

Mammoth Dunes is a fantastic golf course. It has a very natural flow to it and is filled with interesting holes. There are multiple shot options on most holes. Good shots are rewarded, and bad shots usually don't take you out of a hole if you can follow-up with a solid recovery shot. Above all, MD is fun, fun fun!Whistling Straits is a very scenic course that requires good shotmaking to score well. Some of the holes along the lake have a similar look to them, which makes them less distinctive that they might appear otherwise. At the same time, WS is a good test of golf and well worth a trip to play it.Sand Valley is a solid course and an excellent companion to Mammoth Dunes. Although I generally like Coore-Crenshaw courses, SV was not as fun to play as MD. Compared to other C-C courses I have played, SV is not as good as either Cabot Cliffs or Bandon Trails. Too many crowned greens for my taste, but still a really good course.Erin Hills is a really challenging course to walk, and many of its greens repel less than perfect approach shots. I have some respect for the shotmaking required, but EH was the toughest and least fun of the five courses on my list. Tough walk, tough green complexes, tough scores!Blackwolf Run is a very good course, but it didn't create a wonderful experience for me. It's not all that forgiving, and playing it was frustrating until my game finally got up to speed on the back nine. Fans of Pete Dye should like it, but those of us who like links-style courses may be less enthralled.For players considering a trip to play any of these courses, I'd recommend giving a serious look at heading to the Sand Valley resort if you are trying to narrow down your choices. IMO Mammoth Dunes is the best public access course in Wisconsin, and the Sand Valley course is pretty great, too.

Happy golfing!

 

[Phreddy]

Well written and well thought out review. Erin Hills would top my personal list. Not because I play it the best, but to me it is the most complete test of golf. That is not to say one of us is right and the other wrong. I also prefer SV to MD, but would whole heartedly agree that as a destination the complex is perhaps the best of the lot and when the Doak course is complete that can only help the argument.

 

I'm thrilled that Wisconsin has such a wide palette of good golf to make the conversation worth having!

[SDL]

Phreddy,

I agree that Erin Hills is a serious test of golf, and I might have rated it more highly if I were a better golfer who could handle its challenges. However, EH has quite a few greens with false fronts and exaggerated slopes that seem unfair and make for a frustrating round of golf. Also, when I played EH a few weeks ago, the course provided a forecaddie, but golfers had to use a push cart or carry their own clubs - and the walk while pushing a cart was brutal. Our forecaddie warned us on several holes about how the vast slope waiting in front of us was another "caddie-killer". Unfortunately, without a caddie to carry our clubs, the slopes were "golfer-killers" instead. Both my brother and I had to stop frequently to rest, and we were exhausted after the round. Even ignoring the torture provided by the hills at EH, though, I left feeling that EH was a course that was more likely to generate respect than love.

It truly is great that Wisconsin now offers such a range of strong courses, and it's especially cool that they're not too far away from where I live in Iowa.

[mci711]

I'd flip Erin Hills and Sand Valley. But they are so close. Course for course I'd take Erin. Sand Valley Resort as a whole is a different story though. Whistling Vs Mammoth is so tough. I honestly don't know which I would take if I only had 1 round. 5 courses - 10 rounds, I'd go 4 Mammoth Dunes, 3 Whistling Straits, 2 Erin Hills, 1 Sand Valley. I don't think Blackwolf Run would come into the equation until about 40 rounds or so lol. At least 10 rounds at each of the other courses first.

[klebs01]

I just played 36 at Erin Hills last Saturday and find your comments a bit interesting. I found the greens really flat and slow. Maybe one of the weak points of the course though I can see them being more interesting if they got them firmer and a lot faster. The few false fronts were also very evident from a long way away so it was easy to see where the ball had to be played like on 14 you just need to use the back board to funnel the ball onto the green. Finally, the second round of the day was a total blast when we abandoned a set of tees and just picked cool tee boxes with the caddies on each hole. Some were from the tips that didn’t even have makers like 3 and 11, others were way up like 4 from the golds at 288. It would be cool if more people played fun yardages like that. Definitely added the fun vs just trying to post a score.

[mci711]

I do this at my home course. I get bored of playing the same layout every day. You get a completely different course playing different tees.

[ode1]

When you guys refer to Whistling Straits I'm assuming you mean The Straits; and Blackwolf Run = The River, but ?? Those are the two most popular courses at Kohler anyways. I know the original Blackwolf 18 is an option late in the season......I know Meadow Valley and Irish also get quite a bit of play but don't quite get the love their bigger brothers get!

[geauxtigers777]

How was walking 36 there with caddies? We are scheduled to walk 36 coming up as the kickoff to our trip.

[SDL]

ode1,

I'm sorry I wasn't clear that I was discussing the Straits course at Whistling Straits and the River course at Blackwolf Run.

[SDL]

I like your idea of playing the "fun" tees rather than focusing on trying to post a score from the tips. Of course, given that I'll be turning 70 in three months, I always try to play from the tees that offer the most chance for fun.

With regard to the green complexes at Erin Hills, my concerns are not just focused on the greens themselves but also on the green-side bunker positions and the shaved roll-off areas that are frequently located on the front, back, and/or sides of the greens. In fact, the EH hole-by-hole course info even mentions that the green on hole #1 is the only one on the course that is best approached along the ground. So even though EH looks a bit "linksy" at a glance, it does not favor the ground game. On #4 for example, the perfect approach shot has to clear a big front bunker but not be so firm that it rolls off the back of the green into a wetlands area. Any shot less than perfect is likely to be punished more harshly than it deserves - al least IMO.

You also mentioned that on #14, a player has to simply use the slope beyond the green as a backstop that lets the ball funnel onto the green to avoid the false front. I tried to do just that, but my execution was not perfect and the result was frustrating. I hit my approach a bit too firmly to make sure I wasn't short of the green, but my ball got stuck in the grass above/beyond the green and didn't trickle down onto the green. I then hit a soft pitch onto the green, which landed well above the hole, rolled slowly toward the hole, trickled past the hole, and then gathered speed and rolled down the false front and far down the hill on that side of the green. My shots certainly weren't perfect, but they also weren't horrible, which got me wondering whether EH is a fair/fun test of golf for a mid-handicapper like me (I was a 6 hcp when younger and now am a 12).

I certainly don't begrudge players who enjoy playing a course like EH, since every player has different skills and enjoys different types of golf. However, I much prefer the courses at Bandon Dunes, Cabot Links, and Sand Valley or those in Scotland and Ireland. Those courses can still beat me up if my game isn't sharp, but they don't kick me in the crotch the way that Erin Hills did.

[GeorgeHWB]

Is the Bull at Pinehurst Farms shut down? I know they are going through a bankruptcy but usually courses stay open while the bankruptcy is pending. The website is gone and while their phone number is not disconnected, no one answers.

 

Not good. It would be a shame to have a course that nice with no one playing it.

[klebs01]

Carried the first 18 and caddy the second 18. I was fine after the first 18 and tired after the second 18. Feet were a little sore and two guys took off so we didn’t play the kettle loop. We just grabbed a beer and played the drumlins. I didn’t feel to bad the next day. I would do it with caddies on a bigger trip. BUT I walk 18 a couple times a week so I’m used to it.

[geauxtigers777]

Not trying to argue, but it sounds like you got punished for missing in the wrong spot. If you are going to use the slope, you can't miss long. That pretty much goes for every course. Again, I understand the frustration with it, but it sounds like the golf course punishes mistakes. I personally very much enjoy that.

[SDL]

I understand what you're saying. Every course should punish a big miss, but courses vary a lot in how much they punish a slight miss. I think that Erin Hills goes over the line on some holes, but a better player may enjoy that kind of challenge.

I'm not suggesting that Erin Hills isn't a good course, but it falls short in its aspiration to be a great course - at least in my opinion. I'm glad I played it, and I think you will be too, but I don't have a burning desire to go back. There are quite a few other courses I'd rather play, but as always YMMV.

Have fun on your upcoming visit to EH, and please let us know what you think after you've played all the courses on your trip. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

[J_Birdie]

Just got back to Texas from Wisconsin where I played Erin Hills x1, Straits x1, Irish x2, Meadow Valleys x2, and the River x1.

All courses played from tips at least once (I like to play what the pros play and I have the distance to cover it, so it is fun for me to see how I stack on these beast courses)

My personal ranking for fun and leisure:

Meadow Valleys: Front 9 is fun in the open, good par 5s on the course, the tee shot on 10 and 14 are very fun. This was the easiest of the courses, imo (I have not looked up ratings)

Erin Hills: I did not find the walk to be as bad as people say. I am used to the Texas Hill Country golf courses though, which I find more extreme. Erin Hills played firm and fast for me despite the recent rains from the remnants of Cristobal. I found the fescue playable and the fairways hittable. Greens are fair but tough if you miss.

Straits Course: Beautiful course, beautiful scenery, very fun golf course despite what one may score

Irish Course: I found this course to be very fun and beautiful to play, the sheep on the course are a fun novelty!

River Course: Hardest course I played on the trip, imo. It is beautiful but unforgiving and unrelenting. It is not a course I would recommend for simple leisure.

 

If you're looking to test your game:

Straits Course

Erin Hills

The River Course

The Irish

Meadow Valleys

 

That is my personal ranking.

 

All courses this weekend in very good shape with fast greens. Big shout out to both Blackwolf Run courses for having exceptionally good and fast greens. They were 100% pure.

[jwhite86]

It's not open and hasn't been open this season. The bank has continued maintenance and they just received an offer last week. Hoping for some good news

[rtraudt]

Thanks for visiting our beautiful state! I completely agree in regards to the walkability of Erin. I have only played once (planning to play again this summer), but carried my bag (granted, it is a nice small PING Moonlight that I use for such purposes) in 90 degrees, high humidity, and sun, and found it to be a very fun walk. I'm a big push cart advocate, but left mine at home because I find that they can be a nuisance on hilly courses (pushing those things uphill is much worse than just carrying a bag uphill), and would recommend people do the same at Erin if they are able and have a somewhat lighter carry bag. Totally depends on fitness level though...I wouldn't dare have my father in law carry or push his bag on that course. He would certainly need a caddy (whenever those return, since a previous poster mentioned that its only forecaddies for the time being). I think Erin gets a ton of talk about it being such a difficult walk, but I'd walk Erin a thousand times over before walking a course designed for cart paths with very spread out tee boxes, like the Bull (which is by far my biggest gripe with the Bull, and keeps me from wanting to play there more than once a year). In my opinion, it is certainly more of a hike than your average muni, but far from the beast that some make it out to be, and because of the layout and the fact that it is designed to be walked, it always seemed like an enjoyable walk that allowed you to take in a lot of the wild and hilly terrain that the course is set on.

[J_Birdie]

Erin has regular caddies without restrictions, I took a caddy.

[geauxtigers777]

So full caddie services? Awesome.. Playing it a week from today..

 

 

Question for all of the Wisconsin natives. How accurate are the weather forecasts day before or morning of? Is it like the PNW or SE where regardless of forecast, you can still have a pop up shower during the afternoon, or if it says no rain, can I leave the umbrella and rain gear at home?

[Phreddy]

Forecasts tend to be pretty accurate. Most of our weather rolls in from the west and we see it coming from a long way off. Exact timing may be off by a few hours, but rain/no rain, wind/no wind and highs are usually pretty close.

[dearth12]

We were finally able to confirm/book our Wisconsin trip today.

Sunday July 12th-Thursday July 16th:

 

Sunday- Geneva National Player Course

Monday- All day at Lawsonia

Tuesday- Wild Rock and Lac La Belle

Wednesday- Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes

Thursday- Mammoth Dunes and Sand Valley

 

I am assuming that none of these courses will be punching their greens, would that be a correct assumption?

 

Any one that has played any of the courses, could you let me know what they are doing in regards to pins? pool noodles, flipped cups, pvc pipe in the bottom? Really hoping that none are using raised cups!!

 

Thanks for all the help. Reading through this thread has really helped identify, what appear to be, some great courses in your state.

[Phreddy]

That is a great lineup. You will be one tired pup at the finish, but I think (hope) you are very happy with your decision to come and check it out.

 

None of these courses will punch greens until well into the fall months. Sand Valley and Mammoth will be using a cup insert that looks a little like a pool noodle but is a bit different. Same effect. Lawsonia is a pool noodle course this season. I haven't played the others you have mentioned as of yet this year. I will be playing Lac LaBelle later this year and will be anxious to hear your review. If you have not played a Kaiser course before your trip to SV/Mammoth spend some time in the practice area experimenting with chipping techniques. I find the super hard packed sand, mowed to a shave very difficult to chip from with a traditional midwest style wedge game. Putting or a hybrid from up to 15-20 yards out can be a good play.

 

Phred

[GeorgeHWB]

It would be unheard of to aerate in July. That's an early spring or fall job in Wisconsin.

 

I'm curious as to how Lac La Belle got onto your schedule. It is, by a wide margin, the worst course of all you are playing.

 

[Edit - I just read an article about the restoration done at Lac La Belle in 2019. I will put my negative comments on hold. My complaint about the course in past was the poor drainage and maintenance. The turf was very spongy and overall it was a tired/worn out course. All of that appears to have been corrected. I might need to add this course back into my rotation.]

[rtraudt]

I think the best thing about the closely mown greenside areas of the SV and Bandon, etc. courses is the wealth of options that it gives you. You can putt, texas wedge, chip an iron, or pull out the lob wedge to pick one clean and get a bunch more spin on it than any greenside rough will ever allow. Makes playing those courses so much more fun and enjoyable! Absolutely a good idea to hit up the practice area for a while before the round to see what works best for you, as you mentioned.

[rtraudt]

For you folks in the Milwaukee area...has anyone been fit or talked to others who have been fit at Scratch Golf Shop in Mequon? https://scratchgolfshop.com/ I was just signing up for a Club Champion driver fitting (happy with the rest of the bag as it stands, want to see if something is out there in the driver for me and its the oldest fit in the bag). I've been happy with the information that my CC fittings have given me in the past, as I usually get a fit and then build and tweak the club myself (although I did have Will Peoples build a 3 wood for me last season that is my current tee club in most situations). But wanted to see if anyone had tried anyone else in the MKE area!

[chinaski]

I inquired there a few months ago; they have trackman, but only carry Callaway and KZG.

[jwhite86]

Looks like The Bull finally be opening up. Good news

https://www.wisconsin.golf/courses/third-times-a-charm-bank-accepts-2-41-million-offer-to-buy-the-bull-golf/article_19e61076-afec-11ea-8e9e-07c7131ed36c.html

[rtraudt]

Hmm, I was a bit concerned that would be the case based on their website, but good to know for sure. That certainly wouldn't be something that I would want to limit my potential fitting options to. I'd say I'm most interested in the G410 Plus and Titleist heads, to be honest...but know that I might end up in something wildly different! I've been a cobra fan in the past but not sure that I can look at that milled face to crown transition.