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If a shaft is too stiff, is the result a right or left shot?


ericld
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I hear conflicting opinions
My daughter is on the verge of switching from "Light/Lady" flex to men's regular in her fairway woods. She currently plays senior steel in her irons and her driver is now men's regular. She picked up about 15 yards with the switch.

Now she is experimenting with the 50g regular flex shaft in the TM Burner 3-wood. At the same time she is trying a PING G5 3-wood with the regular blue shaft in it (grafalloy). I know that "regular's" vary in flex, and we are seeing the PING go right on some of her test shots...that is something we don't see with the other 3-woods.

If a shaft is too stiff for someone, is the result a right shot? I've heard some people say it can go left.

My opinion is that is would likely go on a lower trajectory, but straight. I'd like to hear your opinions.
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I just changed from a stiff shaft to an extra stiff shaft.

 

The common idea is that if a shaft is too stiff, you'll block it out to the right.

But, I tend to disagree. I've played regular to X-stiff and don't notice any difference exceptt that if I hit a hook or fade it becomes more pronounced as the shaft flex decreases.

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I've heard varying opinions too but in my experience too stiff leads to pushes.

 

The people I've heard that say that a too stiff shaft leads to hooks try to say the the shaft recovers too quickly and so the club head is hooded. You would have to have a really bad swing with an early release for this to be true. For a normal swing I believe that too stiff make it difficult to close the clubface.

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Interesting questions. Only opinions and personally what I think

 

If saying how flex affects motion.

 

for a caster, who swings the clubhead, too stiff = slice and FAT. Trying to help the ball up and load the shaft.

 

for a good lagger, who swings the butt, too stiff = pull draw , due to overacceleration and flipping.

 

In the case of how flex affect results

 

But if the player understands good mechanics, should not be hugely different in directions but in feel Though too soft a shaft will cause Open clubface at impact in the misses and too much drooping thus inaccurate results.

 

The better the mechanics the stiffer of the spectrum we should go.

 

The poorer the mechanics , the softer on the spectrum , even a 100 mph should go for R flex in that case.

 

And I was told and I believe

 

Stiff shaft with high loft are much better than soft shaft with low loft ( using the soft shaft to create spin). So far it works very well for me.

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Pretty much, IMO, everyone is right. So much depends on the shaft flex, the kick point and the flex distribution (soft tip/stiff tip etc) that there is no definitive answer. Swing tempo is also a big influence, probably more so than swing speed in some cases. HAYAM is right on on this one.

 

Personally, I tend to hook a too stiff tip shaft (Fuji 757 for example) regardless of flex and I tend to slice a too soft tip or too soft flex (NVS65) because I have a fast tempo and I torque the head open on the downswing and never recover. Everything goes high right. It is easier for me to control a stiffer tip w/stiffer flex, though and this is what I use. I have a fast tempo 115-117 mph driver swing speed and prefer a 757 or better yet, ProForce V2 in stiff, not X-Stiff.

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I am a smooth swinger, I am going to assume your daughter is smooth tempo to.

If the shaft is too stiff, shots should be shorter, and fade, die right.

The way I select shaft stiffness is if I can hit a draw with it when I need too (My Reliable swing is a straight cut to a fade).

Also, I want to still be able control trajectory (high/low). If the shaft is too whippy, it will be hard to keep the ball down.

I played a 65R NV in Cleveland Launcher for YEARS. I still missed that club (until I scored this tour TP Burner, and Joe Kwok will probably be yanking the VS proto in that club shortly).

How old is your daughter? whats her driver swing speed? whats her tempo (slow/fast)?

Does she sweep her woods and hit down on her irons?

this things would help.

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I tried an r7 460 in reg shaft and one in stiff. The dispersion was reduced with the stiff, and when I hit both on the screws, the stiff is noticely shorter. Does this mean I should stick to the reg? I don't hit the driver very far, so distance is key for me. I'd hit the reg 250ish and the stiff 220ish.

Any advice?

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According to the iron byron at Golfsmith and the pingman at Ping a shaft that is too stiff for the clubhead speed will leave the ball out to the right, a shaft to flexible will make the ball go to the left every time. However as humans swing golf clubs there swing will determine the direction of the ball flight. As a clubfitter you have to adjust to the human aspect. In determining the proper shaft for your daughter I would go with something a little more flexible in the tip and little lower cpm than the grafalloy shaft.

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A 50 gram in a 3 wood, her swing weight is probably very light and she can't feel the head. Is she playing 43"? A blue shaft is normally stiffer than usual. A pro launch blue at least 65 grams would be better for her. Light swing weights don't give the brain enough information to know where the head is during the swing. Going right usually means the shaft is to stiff but if the shaft is way to flexy is will also leave it right because it never catches up.

.

I would also consider an I rod in A, lower torque for less side spin and low kick point for height and spin. It plays very good. Probably the most under rated shaft on the market.

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If you are playing a stiff shaft. Or an extra stiff shaft and you still hook the ball. Then you are flipping your wrist. Whoever says that they hook with a stiffer shaft needs to read up about flipping. If the shaft is to weak for you. You make a good swing. Then it will not let the club face catch up to your hands and the club face will always be open and hit a block or a push slice. That is if you dont come over the top of it and hit a pull hook. Flipping is when your left wrist breaks down in the last part of the down swing and the right hand flips over the left. It cause a hooking shot that winds up left or way left and does not have but about 85% of the distance since its a glancing blow.

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General fitting principles.

 

If a shaft is too stiff, it will encourage a lower ball flight and misses to the right.

 

If a shaft is too weak, it will encourage a higher ball flight and misses to the left.

 

These are guidelines, however, golfers will tend to react/compensate in different ways.

 

 

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General fitting principles.

 

If a shaft is too stiff, it will encourage a lower ball flight and misses to the right.

 

If a shaft is too weak, it will encourage a higher ball flight and misses to the left.

 

These are guidelines, however, golfers will tend to react/compensate in different ways.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

 

Any other experiences are probably swing faults.

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General fitting principles.

 

If a shaft is too stiff, it will encourage a lower ball flight and misses to the right.

 

If a shaft is too weak, it will encourage a higher ball flight and misses to the left.

 

These are guidelines, however, golfers will tend to react/compensate in different ways.

Precisely my experience.

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99 times out of a 100 if a shaft is too stiff it will result in a low-to medium block (slice). Because its to tough to turn over due to that there is no unloading of the shaft, the clubhead stays open. Sometimes, but very rarely I have seen someone hook the ball due to it being too stiff. It goes low and left in a hurry because they can feel the shaft being too stiff and they flip their hands to correct the open clubface.

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A weak shaft for me causes a bad duck hook, I think the only way to have a shaft that is too stiff cause a hook is if you double cross it. With a stiffer shart you wouldnt have the heavy unloading which imparts some of the draw spin.

 

 

Likely when people are hooking a too stiff shaft, they are trying to compensate and swinging out of their shoes, which typically means over the top, which in turn can yank the ball.

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A weak shaft for me causes a bad duck hook, I think the only way to have a shaft that is too stiff cause a hook is if you double cross it. With a stiffer shart you wouldnt have the heavy unloading which imparts some of the draw spin.

 

 

Likely when people are hooking a too stiff shaft, they are trying to compensate and swinging out of their shoes, which typically means over the top, which in turn can yank the ball.

 

Essentially a double cross. Over the top and turning the hands over too quickly.

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You are correct. A softer shaft is designed to give more distance by utilizing a whip effect. In a circular motion the clubhead must travel a longer distance than the handle in the same amount of time. This causes the head to travel faster than the butt of the shaft, this raises clubhead speed relative to shaft speed( good for gaining distance bad for accuraccy). That is why people with faster swings go with a stiffer shaft since accuracy is preferred over the increase in speed.

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Most golfers find this hard to believe but the shaft it self creates very little power. How the butt and tip feels during your swing allows golfers to swing faster or slower which increases or decreases your swing speed. Swing speed and the head is where power comes from, not the shaft. What kind of spin and assisted launch the shaft helps with and creates and places on the ball, does help increase the distance. If the shaft is not helping you with the correct launch and spin, your not getting much help from the shaft.

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Most golfers find this hard to believe but the shaft it self creates very little power. How the butt and tip feels during your swing allows golfers to swing faster or slower which increases or decreases your swing speed. Swing speed and the head is where power comes from, not the shaft. What kind of spin and assisted launch the shaft helps with and creates and places on the ball, does help increase the distance. If the shaft is not helping you with the correct launch and spin, your not getting much help from the shaft.

 

That isn't exactly right. Although I agree that different shafts do the most to alter launch characteristics, according to your statement all shafts should then ideally be rigid and you would just adjust lower the weight to swing faster, there would be no need for a senior flex shaft then. This is of course neglecting tempo concerns.

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