If a shaft is too stiff, is the result a right or left shot?

[ZanoGolf]

I think you missed my point. The feel of the butt section and tip stiffness is the flex of the shaft. If that flex is not right for you or it is right , your swing speed will adjusted fit the feel. I watch golfers swing speed vary by as much as 10 miles by hour when I change the shaft they are hitting. This is not because the shaft is supplying any power but the feel allows the golfer to swing faster. Not waiting or slowing down n the shaft but driving through.

[Ernman64]

I’m a left handed 59 years young player and swing a stiff shaft on my driver. If I  swing it smooth I hit down the middle around 250 yards. If I swing hard, I normally hit a hard draw or duck hook. When I have played a regular flex shaft i hit a bad fade or push left. My swing speed is only 94. 
My stiff driver shaft makes no sense from what I read.  Everything I read says I should be playing a regular flex. 

[ChipNRun]

In general terms, if a person is using a shaft that's too stiff...

• If swinging smoothly, the person will leave shots out to the right.
• If fighting the shaft, the person could leave shots out to the left because he's trying to help the shot.

[m d g]

7 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

In general terms, if a person is using a shaft that's too stiff...

• If swinging smoothly, the person will leave shots out to the right.
• If fighting the shaft, the person could leave shots out to the left because he's trying to help the shot.

 

I think this is correct. If too stiff, players come over the top to try to hit it harder.

 

And if they put their normal swing on it, the shaft won't load/kick and everything goes right...

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, m d g said:

 

I think this is correct. If too stiff, players come over the top to try to hit it harder.

 

And if they put their normal swing on it, the shaft won't load/kick and everything goes right...

When I "feel" as though a shaft is overly stout/stiff, I tend to leave the face open and hit a big push fade out to the right.  On the contrary, if a shaft "feels" too whippy/soft, I tend to hit massive hooks. 

Edited Sunday at 02:09 AM by phizzy30

[Stuart_G]

10 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

In general terms, if a person is using a shaft that's too stiff...

• If swinging smoothly, the person will leave shots out to the right.
• If fighting the shaft, the person could leave shots out to the left because he's trying to help the shot.

 

It's very common for excess muscle tension to be generated when "trying to help the shaft" - which slows down the release and leaves the ball out to the right.    It can also mess with the sequencing timing - resulting in the hands or full upper body being either early or late relative to the rest of the body. 

 

So misses on both sides are very common when a "too stiff" feeling shaft causes the player to try and get the shaft to load more than it would for their "normal" swing.   Each individual player might have only a single tendency - but in general it's very commonly a two way possibility.  It all depends on exactly how well they are able to maintain "good" mechanics with that effort or what "flaws" might be introduced into the swing as a result of that effort.

 

If someone is able to maintain a smooth swing with a shaft that's overly stiff, I wouldn't expect a miss on either side.

 

 

10 hours ago, m d g said:

 

And if they put their normal swing on it, the shaft won't load/kick and everything goes right...

 

Sorry, but that's not how the shaft works in any swing (that is able to hit the ball).    The shaft will ALWAYS kick - doesn't matter how stiff it is.   It's just less of a kick than it might be for a softer shaft.   You must stall the hands as part of the release in order to be able to hit the ball - and that stalling will always cause the shaft to unload at some time before impact.   It will never unload after.  

 

On top of that, the actual contribution of the shaft kick to closing the face is incredibly small, it's not really that significant and wont have a significant (direct) effect on the shot shape for most.

 

It's ALL about how the feel of shaft might change the swing and timing of the mechanics.

Edited Sunday at 11:12 AM by Stuart_G

[m d g]

6 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Sorry, but that's not how the shaft works in any swing (that is able to hit the ball).    The shaft will ALWAYS kick - doesn't matter how stiff it is. 

 

You likely know much more than me, but I think it is semantics. If it doesn't 'kick' as intended or kicks too little, the result is still a right push.

 

I borrowed my +handicap brother-in-laws clubs back in the '80s. I was just learning to play and could barley break 100. The shafts felt like rebar...there seemed to be zero flex in them. The only way I could hit a ball straight was by coming over the top. My normal swing had everything going 45-degrees right.

 

It was really stiff, and gave me a good idea how much clubhead speed he had : )

[KevCannon]

You won’t really know how each person is going to react to a certain “feel or sensation” until that person actually tries to hit a shot with the shaft. Not to mention different release patterns and swing tempos. That feel of “the shaft is too stiff” may cause different reactions and changes to normal tendencies. Long winded way of saying both answers of a weak fade or a smother hook are possible.

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, m d g said:

 

You likely know much more than me, but I think it is semantics. If it doesn't 'kick' as intended or kicks too little, the result is still a right push.

 

It really isn't semantics.   The "kick" of the shaft isn't what closes or controls the face.  It's your swing and the timing of your release that does that.

 

Now, I'm not saying it might not feel that way to you (as it does for a lot of people) - but as with many other things in golf,  it's a feel that isn't real.

[Valtiel]

19 hours ago, m d g said:

The only way I could hit a ball straight was by coming over the top. My normal swing had everything going 45-degrees right.

Thankfully this is an example of exactly what Stuart was saying, because not even 1/10th of what you experienced here would actually happen on a robot, ergo it's a feel thing and what that feel does to your swing. 

We've heard the opposite of what you're saying here as well for the same reason i.e. pulls/hooks with shafts that don't load enough. 

Edited Monday at 12:05 PM by Valtiel

[RobS]

These types of ball flight diagnosis' are probablys and possiblys.  There's some merit to it but it's not etched in stone.  Anecdotally, I tend to miss high right with the driver if the shaft is too soft and miss left when the shaft feels too stiff.  I also launch my irons higher than desired when the shaft feels too stiff. That's counter to most conventional thought.  When I'm trying a new shaft, I'm not swinging it more than 1 or 2 times if the flex doesn't feel right.