Poulter responds to Brandel's criticism.... gets blocked.

[Shilgy]

Great question about 16. I actually didnt give him grief for laying up when a hybrid easily puts him 45-70 feet left of the pin with a chip or putt for eagle. there was no risk of going in the water from there. I understood and respected his decision based on the lie or wind but as a pro at that yardage you choke down an inch on a 5 wood/hybrid and you pinch one out there 225-235 99 times out of 100. he didnt and thats fine but then to hit a scared wedge shot like that? that was no pull he was lined up right there. that was it for me and i understood immediately why duval nobilo and chamblee questioned that. As for Louis, when you have lapped a field in a major and lost another 2 in a playoff you get the benefit of the doubt because Louis wasnt on his game saturday or sunday, Poulter was though. Louis wasnt playing scared he was just a little wild. A lesser player than Louis blows up and shoots 80 both saturday and sunday. His pedigree kept him in there.

 

As for the year Sutton won in 2000 ill concede the conditions were soft however he stared down flags and prime year 2000 tiger all day and delivered gutsy shot after gutsy shot. When Duval won in 1999 it was total carnage. I think on the weekend David was the only guy under par and never let up. Guys like this year were shooting 80s and he didnt blink.

 

So you see in the end I didnt expect poulter to go full tiger/phil balls to the wall however there is controlled aggression and there are 3-4 times a round where a decision is made that can alter your score good or bad.

I think where we disagree is that I believe that chamblee duval and nobilo believe poulter has it in him to pull off 2-3 shots down the stretch to alter the tourney but declined to do so for the reasons stated. It wasnt a hit job but truly disappointment that he didnt push a little more. Basically cheering for a heroic moment.

 

I did the exact thing last summer in 2 straight events i played the last 9s in back to back weeks to place for money to cover my expenses as I had an injury the months prior so no real money coming in. A 1400$ & 2800$ check did me alot of good and freed me up so in the fall i gambled at several events . I was tied for 7th at the turn on the last day and could have mailed it in an made similar money. I went for both par 5s and both had water all around and 16 was a par 3 218 pin left water left and carved one in there to 6 feet for birdie to put me 1 back. Marshall told me prior to me the closest ball on the 16th through 49 players was 35 feet. I missed a 22 footer on 18 to get into a playoff but i tuned a 7th/8th place finish into a outright 2nd. I didnt pretend that i was trying to win the 2 events in the summer though but was definitely going all out to win the big money fall one. I gambled because the payoff would be huge and it was. It got me into a few things for this upcoming summer so sometimes you got to let go and get a little aggressive,but thats just my opinion. I just dont understand how Poulter gets bent out of shape by hearing the truth. Ive never defended Chamblee before but i felt the need to do so on this point.

Look at the masters this year, Garcia went after it he didnt back down. He could have mailed it in and collected an outright 2nd etc... but a champion emerged. i know different course and conditions however its an attitude.You either have it or you dont. Playing on mini tours teaches you 1 thing put up or shut up.

 

As a comparable, I saw Angel Cabrera at the 2007 presidents cup ( the summer he won the us open at oakmont) and spent some time with him over the 2 practice days. I immediately told my friend(also a touring pro) after watching him play and practice and his overall attitude that this guy will win a few more majors. my buddy thought i was wasted for thinking that. i said this guy has "it". that confident glow, fearless attitude. My buddy was saying hes not consistent enough, maybe a flash in the pan, etc.. i said no this guy has all the shots will hit driver anywhere maybe his putter is suspect but i could see this guy win a masters. My friend laughed at me but then the rest is history. I never got that vibe from Poulter. A few backdoor top 10s in british open wont change that. Good career, ryder cup success and alot of $ but maybe the stage was too big and my expectations along with Brandels/Duvals/Nobilos were too high for him?

Either way why hes doubling down i dont know but hey its not my problem. Ive been there at a far smaller stage and know when im playing for $ or trophy. Im honest about it.

Great analysis Low-my thoughts are that Poulter really had not been under the gun in quite some time. He probably played it safer than some would like, obviously :) , but as aggressively as he felt he could playing in the moment. He has never ever been a great ballstriker. He is fearless with the flatstick but conservative with the other clubs. With the possible exception of 16 I thought he played a smart game in his situation and yes, I am sure that played into it.

Tiger and Phil would go for it because they have nothing to lose. They have all the money and exemptions they need. Poulter was definitely walking the line of winning the event and securing his near future.

[SteelPride]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

The whole point is that he WAS playing for a check/points and not to win it. You're making Chamblee's argument. A guy with multiple Ferraris and $30+million in earnings doesn't need the money to buy groceries for his hungry kids, but still he was playing conservatively to maintain position instead trying to win. Great players don't do that. Ryder Cup heroes shouldn't be able to hold their head high after shooting at the middle of greens with wedges coming down the stretch of a major, and non-thinkers on message boards shouldn't defend them and bash TV analysts for correctly pointing it out.

 

And i don't know why you think playing for a check and playing to win are mutually exclusive. If Ian Poulter, you know, the guy far better at golf than all of us, thought making a 4 by laying up on 16 was his best chance to win, how can we possibly criticize that? Perhaps he pulled his 3rd shot, which "great players" do all of the time?

[lowheel]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

 

Don't speak about someone unless you know them.

 

Great contribution to the thread. He has a 5 million dollar car collection.... do i need to explain any further? Thanks for the snark

[lowheel]

Great question about 16. I actually didnt give him grief for laying up when a hybrid easily puts him 45-70 feet left of the pin with a chip or putt for eagle. there was no risk of going in the water from there. I understood and respected his decision based on the lie or wind but as a pro at that yardage you choke down an inch on a 5 wood/hybrid and you pinch one out there 225-235 99 times out of 100. he didnt and thats fine but then to hit a scared wedge shot like that? that was no pull he was lined up right there. that was it for me and i understood immediately why duval nobilo and chamblee questioned that. As for Louis, when you have lapped a field in a major and lost another 2 in a playoff you get the benefit of the doubt because Louis wasnt on his game saturday or sunday, Poulter was though. Louis wasnt playing scared he was just a little wild. A lesser player than Louis blows up and shoots 80 both saturday and sunday. His pedigree kept him in there.

 

As for the year Sutton won in 2000 ill concede the conditions were soft however he stared down flags and prime year 2000 tiger all day and delivered gutsy shot after gutsy shot. When Duval won in 1999 it was total carnage. I think on the weekend David was the only guy under par and never let up. Guys like this year were shooting 80s and he didnt blink.

 

So you see in the end I didnt expect poulter to go full tiger/phil balls to the wall however there is controlled aggression and there are 3-4 times a round where a decision is made that can alter your score good or bad.

I think where we disagree is that I believe that chamblee duval and nobilo believe poulter has it in him to pull off 2-3 shots down the stretch to alter the tourney but declined to do so for the reasons stated. It wasnt a hit job but truly disappointment that he didnt push a little more. Basically cheering for a heroic moment.

 

I did the exact thing last summer in 2 straight events i played the last 9s in back to back weeks to place for money to cover my expenses as I had an injury the months prior so no real money coming in. A 1400$ & 2800$ check did me alot of good and freed me up so in the fall i gambled at several events . I was tied for 7th at the turn on the last day and could have mailed it in an made similar money. I went for both par 5s and both had water all around and 16 was a par 3 218 pin left water left and carved one in there to 6 feet for birdie to put me 1 back. Marshall told me prior to me the closest ball on the 16th through 49 players was 35 feet. I missed a 22 footer on 18 to get into a playoff but i tuned a 7th/8th place finish into a outright 2nd. I didnt pretend that i was trying to win the 2 events in the summer though but was definitely going all out to win the big money fall one. I gambled because the payoff would be huge and it was. It got me into a few things for this upcoming summer so sometimes you got to let go and get a little aggressive,but thats just my opinion. I just dont understand how Poulter gets bent out of shape by hearing the truth. Ive never defended Chamblee before but i felt the need to do so on this point.

Look at the masters this year, Garcia went after it he didnt back down. He could have mailed it in and collected an outright 2nd etc... but a champion emerged. i know different course and conditions however its an attitude.You either have it or you dont. Playing on mini tours teaches you 1 thing put up or shut up.

 

As a comparable, I saw Angel Cabrera at the 2007 presidents cup ( the summer he won the us open at oakmont) and spent some time with him over the 2 practice days. I immediately told my friend(also a touring pro) after watching him play and practice and his overall attitude that this guy will win a few more majors. my buddy thought i was wasted for thinking that. i said this guy has "it". that confident glow, fearless attitude. My buddy was saying hes not consistent enough, maybe a flash in the pan, etc.. i said no this guy has all the shots will hit driver anywhere maybe his putter is suspect but i could see this guy win a masters. My friend laughed at me but then the rest is history. I never got that vibe from Poulter. A few backdoor top 10s in british open wont change that. Good career, ryder cup success and alot of $ but maybe the stage was too big and my expectations along with Brandels/Duvals/Nobilos were too high for him?

Either way why hes doubling down i dont know but hey its not my problem. Ive been there at a far smaller stage and know when im playing for $ or trophy. Im honest about it.

Great analysis Low-my thoughts are that Poulter really had not been under the gun in quite some time. He probably played it safer than some would like, obviously :) , but as aggressively as he felt he could playing in the moment. He has never ever been a great ballstriker. He is fearless with the flatstick but conservative with the other clubs. With the possible exception of 16 I thought he played a smart game in his situation and yes, I am sure that played into it.

Tiger and Phil would go for it because they have nothing to lose. They have all the money and exemptions they need. Poulter was definitely walking the line of winning the event and securing his near future.

 

Very fair point about not being under the gun in a while. You are correct not among the best ball strikers but with a few wedges in his hand he looked petrified. Very well said though

[lowheel]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

The whole point is that he WAS playing for a check/points and not to win it. You're making Chamblee's argument. A guy with multiple Ferraris and $30+million in earnings doesn't need the money to buy groceries for his hungry kids, but still he was playing conservatively to maintain position instead trying to win. Great players don't do that. Ryder Cup heroes shouldn't be able to hold their head high after shooting at the middle of greens with wedges coming down the stretch of a major, and non-thinkers on message boards shouldn't defend them and bash TV analysts for correctly pointing it out.

 

And i don't know why you think playing for a check and playing to win are mutually exclusive. If Ian Poulter, you know, the guy far better at golf than all of us, thought making a 4 by laying up on 16 was his best chance to win, how can we possibly criticize that? Perhaps he pulled his 3rd shot, which "great players" do all of the time?

 

So no pro golfers play or decisions can ever be questioned? Got it thanks

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Brandel sets behind a media desk becasue he couldn't, for what ever the reason, make it on tour.

 

???

 

He has 370 starts and a win on the PGA tour.

 

If you value 370 starts and one win, fine. Lots of people start, means nothing to me. Its how they finish and behave along the way, that gets my attention and respect. Those that can't do, talk.

[SteelPride]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

 

Don't speak about someone unless you know them.

 

Great contribution to the thread. He has a 5 million dollar car collection.... do i need to explain any further? Thanks for the snark

 

Well yeah, unless you have intimate knowledge of his finances, other than what he posts on Instagram and gets stamped on his Vokeys, how do you know anything about his financial situation?

[SteelPride]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

The whole point is that he WAS playing for a check/points and not to win it. You're making Chamblee's argument. A guy with multiple Ferraris and $30+million in earnings doesn't need the money to buy groceries for his hungry kids, but still he was playing conservatively to maintain position instead trying to win. Great players don't do that. Ryder Cup heroes shouldn't be able to hold their head high after shooting at the middle of greens with wedges coming down the stretch of a major, and non-thinkers on message boards shouldn't defend them and bash TV analysts for correctly pointing it out.

 

And i don't know why you think playing for a check and playing to win are mutually exclusive. If Ian Poulter, you know, the guy far better at golf than all of us, thought making a 4 by laying up on 16 was his best chance to win, how can we possibly criticize that? Perhaps he pulled his 3rd shot, which "great players" do all of the time?

 

So no pro golfers play or decisions can ever be questioned? Got it thanks

 

Of course they can. Do it all the time. But what makes this forum great is the banter about whether we agree or disagree with that criticism. I happen to side with Poults on this one.

[lowheel]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

 

Don't speak about someone unless you know them.

 

Great contribution to the thread. He has a 5 million dollar car collection.... do i need to explain any further? Thanks for the snark

 

Well yeah, unless you have intimate knowledge of his finances, other than what he posts on Instagram and gets stamped on his Vokeys, how do you know anything about his financial situation?

 

So doubling down are we? i just told you its verifiable, career earnings of 35 million plus 5-6 million in endorsements. Has car collection worth 5 million. His kids arent going hungry if he didnt make the 900k versus the 370k if dropped a few spots. has fedex annuities kicking in in a few years. So yes i do know, its public knowledge. If he blew through all that great, no pity from me.

[lowheel]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

The whole point is that he WAS playing for a check/points and not to win it. You're making Chamblee's argument. A guy with multiple Ferraris and $30+million in earnings doesn't need the money to buy groceries for his hungry kids, but still he was playing conservatively to maintain position instead trying to win. Great players don't do that. Ryder Cup heroes shouldn't be able to hold their head high after shooting at the middle of greens with wedges coming down the stretch of a major, and non-thinkers on message boards shouldn't defend them and bash TV analysts for correctly pointing it out.

 

And i don't know why you think playing for a check and playing to win are mutually exclusive. If Ian Poulter, you know, the guy far better at golf than all of us, thought making a 4 by laying up on 16 was his best chance to win, how can we possibly criticize that? Perhaps he pulled his 3rd shot, which "great players" do all of the time?

 

So no pro golfers play or decisions can ever be questioned? Got it thanks

 

Of course they can. Do it all the time. But what makes this forum great is the banter about whether we agree or disagree with that criticism. I happen to side with Poults on this one.

 

So why say "who are we to criticise his play/decisions?"

 

FYI there is no "side" to be on. its not a debate as to if he played safe or to win, its obvious he didnt play to win to anybody with functioning vision.

[MattyO1984]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Poulter was in a very difficult position. Three back, he is looking to make up a good amount of ground over three pretty treacherous holes. He didn't have much to play with on 16 after his tee shot and as firm as that hole seemed to be playing, I think he would have pulled off the hero shot 2 times out of 10.

 

Now he is getting grief from Brandel 'one win' Chamblee. If he had gone for that shot or any of those pins on the last three holes, he is feet from disaster and if he had dunked it in the water, Chamblee would be jumping on him for bottling it and putting it in the water.

[Mark_888]

FYI there is no "side" to be on. its not a debate as to if he played safe or to win, its obvious he didnt play to win to anybody with functioning vision.

 

Just based on pure statistical analysis (maybe I am biased because I play poker with my own real money and understand betting odds), the odds of Poulter winning or making it to a playoff were higher with all pars on the last few holes and hoping that Kim got into trouble and lost 3 strokes, versus the odds of Poulter "trying" to make birdies and get into a playoff or win that way.

[hurricanes7]

dont they both suck

[dcfas]

Leading up to this tournament I couldn't help but notice the drama the journalists were trying to drum up regarding Poulter's status. Every time they dragged him in front of the mic they focused on just how bad the situation was. I could tell it was killing him to just stand there and take it, and I give him credit for his performance. Beat all but one. Poulter is an interesting and talented guy. Hope he continues to play well.

 

As far as Chamblee is concerned, it's like being an editor: no one appreciates your comments, but somebody has got to point out possible faults. I enjoy the analyses, although I don't always agree.

[NoFancyUsername.]

1. Youre dead wrong and arrogant to boot.You know nothing about me. Ive gone from ajga ams to US/midwest to canadian ams to ncaa D2 to tarheel tour to hooters tour to grey goose arizona tour to canadian tour to nationwide tour to monday qualifying pga tour. I make a living in this game. Do you? yeah you probably dont. Dont speak about me if you dont know me.

 

Oh god, I'm so impressed. You actually made it to the hooters tour. Tell you what, send me your details and I'll get you on the Australian Gone Troppo tour...lol

The rest of your questions are puerile.

[nicoy3k]

You're down 2 with three to play on a tough golf course going against a 21 year old. I think playing conservatively and hoping the other guy collapses is actually a smart strategy in this scenario....

[lowheel]

1. Youre dead wrong and arrogant to boot.You know nothing about me. Ive gone from ajga ams to US/midwest to canadian ams to ncaa D2 to tarheel tour to hooters tour to grey goose arizona tour to canadian tour to nationwide tour to monday qualifying pga tour. I make a living in this game. Do you? yeah you probably dont. Dont speak about me if you dont know me.

 

Oh god, I'm so impressed. You actually made it to the hooters tour. Tell you what, send me your details and I'll get you on the Australian Gone Troppo tour...lol

The rest of your questions are puerile.

 

So your narrative and assumption gets blown up and you answer like this, typical. Your location is appropriate since you talk out of it all the time.

[ray9898]

You're down 2 with three to play on a tough golf course going against a 21 year old. I think playing conservatively and hoping the other guy collapses is actually a smart strategy in this scenario....

 

....or you put up a birdie and make that 21yo conclude that he can't play it 100% safe and coast to a win. If you want him to collapse, no better way than a pit of pressure by those chasing him.

[Shilgy]

Some of you must have been really impressed that Rahm went for it. -4 after two rounds, in contention, went for it in round three and proceeded to shoot 82 and get a MDF.

In what world is that better than shooting -7 and finishing T2?

[Mark_888]

....or you put up a birdie and make that 21yo conclude that he can't play it 100% safe and coast to a win. If you want him to collapse, no better way than a pit of pressure by those chasing him.

 

Kim hadn't played 17 or 18 yet. There is no "safe" play on those holes that are likely pars.

 

17 is enough pressure by itself no matter how close the next closest golfer is. There is only the green or the water, and some shots that hit the green will roll into the water.

 

18 has enough water on the left and trouble on the right to make anyone "playing safe" to have to forget about getting on the green in regulation.

[Spooky67]

It's sad that this is even a story. It's a shame when "drama" from two men eclipses tournament play.

[SteelPride]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

 

Don't speak about someone unless you know them.

 

Great contribution to the thread. He has a 5 million dollar car collection.... do i need to explain any further? Thanks for the snark

 

Well yeah, unless you have intimate knowledge of his finances, other than what he posts on Instagram and gets stamped on his Vokeys, how do you know anything about his financial situation?

 

So doubling down are we? i just told you its verifiable, career earnings of 35 million plus 5-6 million in endorsements. Has car collection worth 5 million. His kids arent going hungry if he didnt make the 900k versus the 370k if dropped a few spots. has fedex annuities kicking in in a few years. So yes i do know, its public knowledge. If he blew through all that great, no pity from me.

 

Verifiable? You are an idiot. What you read on the interwebz; congrats dude. Once again, you know nothing about his financial situation.

[lowheel]

Low-wheel: how do you know Poulter "isn't playing for a check at this point"? Are you his accountant? His broker? His personal planning lawyer?

 

Don't speak about someone unless you know them.

 

Great contribution to the thread. He has a 5 million dollar car collection.... do i need to explain any further? Thanks for the snark

 

Well yeah, unless you have intimate knowledge of his finances, other than what he posts on Instagram and gets stamped on his Vokeys, how do you know anything about his financial situation?

 

So doubling down are we? i just told you its verifiable, career earnings of 35 million plus 5-6 million in endorsements. Has car collection worth 5 million. His kids arent going hungry if he didnt make the 900k versus the 370k if dropped a few spots. has fedex annuities kicking in in a few years. So yes i do know, its public knowledge. If he blew through all that great, no pity from me.

 

Verifiable? You are an idiot. What you read on the interwebz; congrats dude. Once again, you know nothing about his financial situation.

 

Yeah the PGAtour and Euro tour money list isnt verifiable? give it up man you're embarrassing yourself. Calling me an idiot? take a look in the mirror pal.

[TurnHard Langer]

"Money matters, world ranking points matter, and I get it," Chamblee said. "I have hit that shot. I have done that. I have done exactly what Ian Poulter did. No one is ever going to call me a good player. We reserve the right to call great players and great shots. This is why we don't laud (Poulter's shot). We laud the shot David Duval hit, the shots that Tiger Woods hit. That's why we laud those, that's why we stand up and go 'Well done, great shot.' (Poulter's shot), was not that."

 

http://www.golf.com/...lay-win-players

 

Before I ever saw Brandel on tv I considered him to be one of the dumbest on course decision makers I have ever witnessed. So it's pretty funny that he's now a pretentious jackass on the golf channel acting like he knows anything.

 

He's never even won a tour event. And the closest he ever came was the 1996 BellSouth Open where he no joke did about the dumbest thing I've ever seen when in a situation to win a golf tournament. It was him and Paul Stankowski in a playoff. It was the most important hole Brandel ever played. Par 5 dogleg right at TPC Sugarloaf in Atlanta. 2nd shot Brandel has like about 230 into the green, all carry over water and a downhill lie. He's a short knocker, Brandel didn't create much clubhead speed. And this genius decides to hit a 1 iron....off a downhill lie.....all carry over water........I mean......do I even need to say more. He dunked it in the water way short of the green. Paul Stankowski was like oh thank you moron, I'm just going to hit PW, SW from 225 out and easily win this now. And THIS is the guy who the golf channel hires to act above it all and second guessing ever players decision like an armchair quarterback. Wow, what a smart organization.