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> @Ty_Webb said:

> Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

>

> My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

 

So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

 

Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

 

The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

 

Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

 

Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

 

ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

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One thing I see people missing is the point Scott makes about moving your target away from the flag. The dispersion is going to leave approximately the same exact amount of shots near the hole for ea

First of all, when he's talking about aiming at something, he means centering your shot pattern on that thing, so if you play a fade, then you'd be aiming that further left. The goal is for the center

Imho it depends on what happens in the marked area (see screenshot). If you go for the green, you should be aiming at the left edge of the green: ~ 45% on the green (~avg 2 stokes) ~ 30% in the rou

> @Shades234 said:

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> >

> > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

>

> So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

>

> Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

>

> The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

>

> Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

>

> Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

>

> ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

 

No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

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> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @Shades234 said:

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> > >

> > > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

> >

> > So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

> >

> > Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

> >

> > The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

> >

> > Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

> >

> > Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

> >

> > ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

>

> No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

 

Felt like I was watching a Masters intro video. I agree with what he said. Video makes it look like you're chipping downhill from some rough. Feel like the DECADE move is to go for the green if you're within 220-240 of your landing zone. I don't think the green is big enough for a 250 approach. Correct play will probably depend on pin location.

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Imho it depends on what happens in the marked area (see screenshot).

If you go for the green, you should be aiming at the left edge of the green:

~ 45% on the green (~avg 2 stokes)

~ 30% in the rough around the green or bunker (lets assume a 2.6 avg, depends on the pin position, more if pin is to the left)

~ 20% in the marked area (??)

~ 5% water (~3.5 strokes)

If you lay up to 80y, the PGA pro averages 2.8 shots from there

If you can pitch it safely somewhere onto the green from the marked area, I'd go for it. If you can loose your ball or if its really nasty in that area, lay up.

The important point is the same as after the drive: If you're out of position, don't try to force the birdie. E.g. if you are in the light rough to the left, the pin is tucked left, don't try to get fancy and leave it short still in that rough...

ctq4tlkztoxl.jpg

 

*edit* I did the math a bit more conservatively: Even if the outcome of your approach looks like

25% from the rough from 25y,

25% from the sand from 25y,

25% from a recovery situation from 25y,

25% from the green from 15y,

this would equal a 2.75 stroke average compared to the 2.8 from 80y (80% from the fw, 20% from the rough).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is Decade now able to be entered hole by hole? I will not write down the data to enter it a second time in the app. In fact I don´t remember the round even after played as I don't care to memorize. I know if I played good or bad but that’s mostly it. Can Decade detect shots like other apps are? Does it show distances to green center, back, front and flag if set, while playing? Is the yard/meter problem solved already? I read that green shows yards/feet when meter is set. On the EU mainland we don't measure putts in feet we simply never did or do. If he putt is 1.75 meter we can very well imagine the length. Also I read yards/meter is just not converted on courses when you set meters and the course is measured in yards, Uk maybe? Problem on the European mainland?

I used the decade basic and quit after 6 months, no way I will pull the trigger on a 300$/year Elite if it cant do the above correctly even if the analysis post-round is perfect. I need decade while I play also.

I mean Arccos does the ingame stuff as good as Decade does the analysis and Decade is as bad with ingame as Arccos sucks with analysis. Those two together would make the perfect Golf app.

But whats the actual status of the Decade app? Is it of any use while you play?

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> @Peter_b said:

> Is Decade now able to be entered hole by hole?

Not that I'm aware off.

> Can Decade detect shots like other apps are? Does it show distances to green center, back, front and flag if set, while playing?

No "on the fly distances", no GPS positioning as far as I know (of course the course data are provided by GPS, but the DECADE App doesn't know where "it is".

> Is the yard/meter problem solved already? I read that green shows yards/feet when meter is set. On the EU mainland we don't measure putts in feet we simply never did or do. If he putt is 1.75 meter we can very well imagine the length. Also I read yards/meter is just not converted on courses when you set meters and the course is measured in yards, Uk maybe? Problem on the European mainland

No, and this really annoys me. I dont know of any yard/feet issue on the green that you described here. The yards/meter issue that I'm aware of is that course distances are recognized as being in yards (even though there are meters) and then converted to meters so every hole is a priori about 10% short and you have to manually change this. And you can't even save these distances for your home courses.

Another issue occurs with the new yardage book feature (which in pricipal is awesome). If you select "meter" only the distance rings from the tee are measured in meters (even though they are named yards), every other distance is shown in yards. However since this feature is still under construction I'm willing to give them some time to fix this bugs within the yardage books.

> I mean Arccos does the ingame stuff as good as Decade does the analysis and Decade is as bad with ingame as Arccos sucks with analysis. Those two together would make the perfect Golf app.

> But whats the actual status of the Decade app? Is it of any use while you play?

I'm a big fan of the DECADE App but the honest answer to your question is: NO, no use **while** playing.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @Shades234 said:

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> > >

> > > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

> >

> > So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

> >

> > Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

> >

> > The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

> >

> > Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

> >

> > Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

> >

> > ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

>

> No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

 

What did you end up doing on this hole? Hope you played well - assume it was the Met Am

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> @dhc1 said:

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > @Shades234 said:

> > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> > > >

> > > > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

> > >

> > > So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

> > >

> > > Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

> > >

> > > The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

> > >

> > > Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

> > >

> > > Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

> > >

> > > ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

> >

> > No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

>

> What did you end up doing on this hole? Hope you played well - assume it was the Met Am

 

It was the Met Am. First round I hit a good drive, but it was into the wind, so no hope of hitting the green. Hit a very poor layup in the left rough. Awful lie, which I left in the bunker 60 yards short. Hit it on the green and two putted from about 80 feet for a 6. Second round, downwind, hit an awful drive. Snap hook into the left rough. 4 iron from there to a decent layup spot. Wedge on to about 60 feet and holed it for a 4.

 

All the Decade in the world couldn't have helped me on either time I played the hole.

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Titleist 714MB 5-PW
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 52 and 56 WS
Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @dhc1 said:

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > @Shades234 said:

> > > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> > > > >

> > > > > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

> > > >

> > > > So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

> > > >

> > > > Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

> > > >

> > > > The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

> > > >

> > > > Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

> > > >

> > > > Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

> > > >

> > > > ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

> > >

> > > No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

> >

> > What did you end up doing on this hole? Hope you played well - assume it was the Met Am

>

> It was the Met Am. First round I hit a good drive, but it was into the wind, so no hope of hitting the green. Hit a very poor layup in the left rough. Awful lie, which I left in the bunker 60 yards short. Hit it on the green and two putted from about 80 feet for a 6. Second round, downwind, hit an awful drive. Snap hook into the left rough. 4 iron from there to a decent layup spot. Wedge on to about 60 feet and holed it for a 4.

>

> All the Decade in the world couldn't have helped me on either time I played the hole.

 

What did you think of the rest of the course? Heard the tournament went well.

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> @dhc1 said:

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > @dhc1 said:

> > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > @Shades234 said:

> > > > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > > Good question Shades. I’m not sure, but I’m going to piggy back off it since I have a very similar looking hole to play in a tournament next week. Hole is here: https://goo.gl/maps/yYjtxX1YUs6NRnBn7

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My inclination is to lay up. Based on what I read, missing the green left is no picnic because it slopes down to the water from there. I don’t think I can handle hitting an 8 iron to do that though. I will base it on how I’m feeling on the day, but curious what’s the “right” tactic.

> > > > >

> > > > > So this is the dogleg right par 5 with the fairway bunker about 270 left off the tee?

> > > > >

> > > > > Interested in others' opinions, but trying to follow DECADE, I would rip driver off the tee putting the left half of my distribution into the left fairway bunker. My carry is ~285 on a good whack. If I get lucky and end up hitting a ball to the right half of my distribution, the fairway, then I have ~230 to get a few paces onto the front of the green. The green is fairly wide at ~17 paces, so if there isn't wind and a miss left isn't awful, DECADE should tell me to hit it 15 paces left of the water. So pretty much aim point is one flag stick length right of the left edge of the green with the goal of flying it 4 paces on (arbitrary carry). If I end up pulling it, I'm safe and chipping. If I push it, I should still be OK if my shot pattern reflects DECADE.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem for me is that I don't know my shot pattern well enough to aim it for these longer shots. I haven't been using DECADE long enough to get it down yet.

> > > > >

> > > > > Seems that the intention of DECADE is measured aggression. You're selectively aggressive off the tee until you have to hit a recovery shot. That's why I think D off the tee is the play here based on DECADE. If you hit 3W you're probably laying up 100% of the time (unless you hit 3W 280). So you should hit D to give yourself the most possible options at birdie for your second shot. If you hit it in the bunker, you're laying up anyway, so it's not bad. If you're in the fairway and there's wind + bad lie or whatever, you lay it up. But if you have a good lie in the fairway without other modifiers, seems DECADE would tell you to go for it since the green is pretty wide. I think you'll have to play a practice round to scope out what is left of this green and add modifiers accordingly. If you have no chance of getting it up and down or holding the green from being short sided over there, laying up is probably the play.

> > > > >

> > > > > Interested to hear what you think though. Still trying to learn this myself. Willing to help test any other example you have too.

> > > > >

> > > > > ETA: If I know I'm laying up on this hole. I don't hit D. Take the bunker out of play and make it a 3 shot hole. But if the miss left of the green is favorable enough, might be worthwhile to keep that option open.

> > > >

> > > > No practice round, so I have to figure this stuff out beforehand (or do it on the fly). I don't think the bunker is too bad of a spot. Obviously can't get there from it, but I can't get there if I lay up either, so there's absolutely no reason not to hit driver. I think I aim at the left edge of the bunker, which puts my shot pattern centered about right edge of it. Not concerned about my tee shot though. It's the second. If I hit a good drive, I'm going to be about 255 or so from the middle of the green. That means I can hit about a 7 iron or so between the 1st and 2nd up bunkers and leave myself 80ish yards in. Fairway is comfortably wide enough there. Or I hit 3 wood at the green. If it's downhill downwind, then it might be a 2 or 3 iron. We'll see. Here's the club's video of the hole: http://www.hudsonnational.org/club/scripts/custom/custom.asp?NS=GP&PAGECFG=GCT#hole_14 - they make it sound like missing left is no picnic. If I go for it I have to think I'm trying to hit it on the left bank and leave myself a chip and if I happen to hit one a bit right then lucky me. I think if I have a good lie I'll wind up going for it. I think my scoring average for the hole will be lower that way. It will in large part depend on how I'm playing though on the day.

> > >

> > > What did you end up doing on this hole? Hope you played well - assume it was the Met Am

> >

> > It was the Met Am. First round I hit a good drive, but it was into the wind, so no hope of hitting the green. Hit a very poor layup in the left rough. Awful lie, which I left in the bunker 60 yards short. Hit it on the green and two putted from about 80 feet for a 6. Second round, downwind, hit an awful drive. Snap hook into the left rough. 4 iron from there to a decent layup spot. Wedge on to about 60 feet and holed it for a 4.

> >

> > All the Decade in the world couldn't have helped me on either time I played the hole.

>

> What did you think of the rest of the course? Heard the tournament went well.

 

The course was fantastic. The views are utterly breathtaking. It’s pretty hilly but I think it makes good use of them and while it has a lot of very long holes, at least some of them didn’t play that long on account of the land. I’m glad I played it and it was in basically perfect condition. Tournament was very well run too I thought.

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> @Deepy said:

> > @Peter_b said:

> > Is Decade now able to be entered hole by hole?

> Not that I'm aware off.

> > Can Decade detect shots like other apps are? Does it show distances to green center, back, front and flag if set, while playing?

> No "on the fly distances", no GPS positioning as far as I know (of course the course data are provided by GPS, but the DECADE App doesn't know where "it is".

> > Is the yard/meter problem solved already? I read that green shows yards/feet when meter is set. On the EU mainland we don't measure putts in feet we simply never did or do. If he putt is 1.75 meter we can very well imagine the length. Also I read yards/meter is just not converted on courses when you set meters and the course is measured in yards, Uk maybe? Problem on the European mainland

> No, and this really annoys me. I dont know of any yard/feet issue on the green that you described here. The yards/meter issue that I'm aware of is that course distances are recognized as being in yards (even though there are meters) and then converted to meters so every hole is a priori about 10% short and you have to manually change this. And you can't even save these distances for your home courses.

> Another issue occurs with the new yardage book feature (which in pricipal is awesome). If you select "meter" only the distance rings from the tee are measured in meters (even though they are named yards), every other distance is shown in yards. However since this feature is still under construction I'm willing to give them some time to fix this bugs within the yardage books.

> > I mean Arccos does the ingame stuff as good as Decade does the analysis and Decade is as bad with ingame as Arccos sucks with analysis. Those two together would make the perfect Golf app.

> > But whats the actual status of the Decade app? Is it of any use while you play?

> I'm a big fan of the DECADE App but the honest answer to your question is: NO, no use **while** playing.

>

 

I signed up for decade elite last week, and have experienced the same meters/yards issue. When selecting course, is there a way to toggle between meters/yards?

 

From my end I don't get a choice, it assumes yards, but he script that pulls from the GPS scorecard data is in meters, so all hole distances are effectively 10% too short. I've sent an email to Scott for feedback will post the reply here.

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  • 4 months later...

Trackman would be useful in learning your shot pattern relative to a starting target, but there is no Trackman integration in the Decade app. So you will have to enter your shots manually in the phone or web app. This is done hole by hole by dragging and dropping a marker on a gps map of the hole that you played. If you're playing simulated rounds on your Trackman, you still have to keep track of where your ball ended up on the course and position the markers accordingly once your round is complete. Although you probably could enter your holes as you go, but that would be distracting to me.

I don't play sim golf, so I keep track of distance to the hole from each shot on my scorecard. Then putt length when I'm on the green. If I do my data entry later in the same day that I played the round, I usually can remember where the pins were and map out my shots appropriately based on pin location and distance from shot to pin.

Scott is releasing something called "Decade Foundations" sometime this week or next. Which is supposed to be a subset of the "elite" app. Interested to see what it is. I renewed my Decade subscription for another year last month. I think it's worthwhile even though there isn't an automatic way to do the data entry portion. Takes me about 10 minutes to do data entry on a computer with keyboard and mouse. I found that it was much easier on a computer than in the phone app.

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I did the latter. I hit 20-30 drivers on Trackman and logged the dispersion. I then use that dispersion, and the middle of that dispersion, when I'm determining start lines using Google Maps.

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How do you deal with holes when trees are so high that you can't hit over them? My stock driver is a 10-15 yard sliding cut...I've got a few holes at my home course where the play is to send it with driver, except that there are some very high trees that mean I literally can't get the ball to where my optimal shot pattern at 290 yards would be.

Two options - try and move the ball the other way on those holes so I can get the driver down far enough, or change club to one where I can hit my fade and still 'fit' the shot into the hole (i.e. playing to the corner of a dogleg vs going over it). Neither seem ideal!

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I think I'll need more specific information to answer your question. How long are these holes? Are they dog legs where if you run through you end up in trouble? Typically you want to stick with your stock driver shape, but there are always exceptions.I didn't do a shot pattern for every club, but I do know that my shot pattern for longer clubs favors a push, so I'll aim those clubs (driver thru 5 and sometimes 6i) further left than I would aim my wedges and short irons.

To put it in other words, I am directly at the baseline aim number for a wedge and short iron. On longer clubs, I know that if I line up directly at the baseline aim number my shot pattern will favor the right side, so I aim an extra couple paces left to attempt to center my shot pattern on that aiming number even though my body is lined up left of it.

I think it's just something you have to play with and put some thought into your tendencies. I've been working on my longer irons to get them started on line better, but know that it's not quite there yet. One thing that you can do when you're playing is just keep track of how many times you end up right and left of your aim number/target. If you notice a trend of missing more on one side than the other over a larger sample size (several rounds), you may want to go to the range and hit some shots with the focus on observing your dispersion and adjust accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

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Here is an aerial of one example - short par four around 320 yards. Normally this would be a driver straight at the green get it as close as you can. Because of the very tall trees with overhanging limbs (and the water hazard which is a magnet for ricochets).

For all examples assume that you can't reliably hit over the trees - in many cases they are 30+ yards tall, and most are barely 100 yards in front of the tee box.

Predominant wind is left to right.

I hit a 10-15 yard fade with driver, which means that even if I start it on the very left hand edge of the trees (red line) at best I can get to front right. The red line down the right is OB on the next hole, and that fairway is firm and it runs away - OB is definitely in play if you push a driver, especially in the wind. With a 10-15 yard draw you can start the ball at the bridge and as long as it moves right to left there isn't too much trouble to end up in.

Option 1 is try to draw the driver and just send it off the bridge. Option 2 is take a 5 iron and try end up short enough of the tree on the right at 200m to leave room for a wedge in. Even that option involves very tight aimlines to avoid the trees on the left.

 

P6SBNPZ3UFC2.png

There are a maybe 3 or 4 tee shots that pose the same conundrum - because of trees you bascially can't start the ball left of the fairway, meaning that you either have to hit a short enough club to avoid going too far into trouble on the right, or try shape the other way to avoid the barriers.

Couple other examples below of holes where a straight shot means that at best you can hit half the desired shot pattern - these ones are a little longer.

BYRT50F1TXYI.png

IPCQH15W0O8T.png

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Where is the green on 1? Is it to the left of the fairway next to what looks like the cart path? Or is it straightaway and not in frame?

Part of what Scott talks about is not forcing your ball closer to the green and into harms way when you already have a wedge in hand for your approach.

He also talks about the 90% rule when playing from the trees. Not sure if he meant to apply it on tee shots, but let's say he did and you applied it here. Are you 90% certain that you can sling a draw with your driver when your natural shot is a 10-15 yard fade? If the answer is no, then you should probably also observe the first "rule" and not try to force your driver into a shape that you aren't comfortable with.

Trying to apply that to holes 1 and 3, I'd be laying up into the fat part of the fairway and accepting a wedge in. 2 would be driver all day down your red line.

That's my 2 cents. Someone else might view it differently. If you were a natural drawer of the ball, you'd probably be ripping driver on all 3.

ETA: Hopefully I'm not improperly characterizing Decade, but this is my interpretation. The goal of the program is to eliminate careless bogeys more so than it is to make more birdies. It's a very risk averse system. If you're fully committing to playing by Decade, you're aiming away from the hole and hoping to hit it exactly where you aimed. You're going to 2-putt a lot with great speed control and some days you'll get hot and make more putts than average. Driving is about taking the longest possible club that doesn't introduce extra risk. Once you have a wedge (of any sort) as your approach club, your goal has been met. You can look to hit the ball further up the hole, but if it introduces extra risk (bunkers, trees, hazards, etc) then you probably just want to accept your wedge and move on.

Here's the driving decision tree. Pause the YT video here:

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At the end of the day, decade is about minimizing your expected number of strokes to hole out from a given spot. Off the tee it means figuring out everywhere you could end up and how many shots you’ll take from each spot. Then figure out the likelihood of each outcome with each club and then whichever is the lowest number is the option you should take.

The nice thing about decade is Scott has done all the math for you and now you get to follow the decision tree and you’ll get the right answer.

Now, given the tall trees in the example here, I would suggest amending the “is it 65 yards between penalty hazards?” by assuming that the red line is a penalty hazard on the left (hitting the tree there is effectively a one shot penalty. So is it 65 yards from the red line to the OB? If it is then is it 40 yards from the red line to the tree canopy on the right? If it is hit driver. If it’s not 65 yards then lay back however far you have to to be safe. If it’s not 40 yards then does 3 wood avoid it? If not it’s probably driver unless dropping back to an iron only leaves a wedge in.

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Green on the first example is the banana shape that is straight away. The red line stops just before front edge and it curves up and to the left.

On 2, the road on the right is OB (the OB starts a few yards inside the line of the road)

Assuming a shot pattern that is 60 yards wide, means that half the shots end up either side of it. With the additional 15 yards of cut, it means I need to be aiming at least 45 yards right of the red lines, so that the very left part of the shot pattern (a 45 yard pull that cuts back 15) still misses the trees. This means if there is hazard more than 75 yards right of the red line I shouldn't hit driver. Add to the fact that these holes almost always play with a hurting left to right wind makes driver even less sensible. I guess I'll stick to my plan which I do anyway of just taking a shorter club, playing my fade and accepting a longer club in on those holes!

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I have created a few for myself. They look pretty good to me. I haven't compared them with on the ground yet. You get to select which tee to use for each hole. Most of the time the options you'd want are there. It tells you the adjustments for other tees anyway. Then it generates blue rings at yardages you determine. I have them at 225, 250 and 275, which are roughly speaking 2 iron, 3 wood and driver for me. The default is 250 275 and 300. Then it has red dotted rings at 20 yard intervals out from 100. On those are the average scores from the fairway for the level you choose. Options are PGA Tour, top college ams and a couple of others I don't remember. Then it shows, bunkers, trees, water and fairways. It also gives the fairway widths at each of your three selected blue ring distances. That glitched out on one of my ones where the fairway splits in two, so there are two parts of fairway. It shows 0 there. Not a big deal. Then there is a close up of the green, with spaces on the outside to mark off the modifiers as you play your practice round. All in all, they're not perfect and if I had endless time and the will to do it, I would come up with more detail, but given that this takes about 2 minutes, while mine would take several hours, I think it's worth it. Better than nothing and combined with a laser and/or a GPS, plenty enough. If it's accurate :)

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From my experience the distances are spot on. So the distance rings, distances to hazards, different tee boxes and so on are very accurate. However, since I started to build my own birdiebooks using these nice little triangles, the DECADE yardage books gets rarely used.

See my example hole #5 at my home course: If you miss the FW to the right by more than 5y, you're basically reteeing 90% of the time, so in order to get the correct line from the tee the satellite image with the shown triangle (70y at 276y) offers more value for me. However this might be unique to narrow courses like shown here, since my landing area almost always involves some of the adjacent holes.

On the webpage also elevation changes are mentioned. However, for the courses that I played in the past (in Germany, England and the Netherlands) there were no elevation changes available.

 

A7ZQ28VCYA2E.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

For those that have the decade app - are UK courses included in the shot tracking element of the app??

 

Did drop Scott a message on twitter, he usually replies so must have missed this one

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Not really. He gives some very high level explanation. Basically that what you should be trying to do with each shot is playing it such that your expected outcome is minimized. There were three examples. A tee shot with a lake left, where he tells Como to aim at the right trees. Then after hitting it behind the tree he tells him he should pitch out because the hero shot isn't worth it. Then an island green par 3 where he said basically outside 150 just aim at the middle of the green.

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I think it was actually too high-level for the audience. He threw a lot out there.

It would have been helpful to show the dispersion, like on Google Maps, instead of just big words about it.

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