Danny Willett worst major champion ever?

[gretch]

, if I was really on for a round he'd probably only beat me by 10-15. To keep it in perspective.

 

 

14 hcp??

 

 

[BreakingPar]

Threads like this are what keep me coming back to golfWRX! Carry on lads, carry on!

 

 

[andrieddle]

I think he needs to live down the win at the Masters if he wants to be good again. His new Callaway Apex MBs are filled with green paint, his putter has green shade, his McLaren license plate is MSTR 16, he's living in the past basically and lost the drive.

 

He needs to come out from it to win again, he was leading on the Maybank earlier into Sunday but choked and finished 5th.

[JunkerJorge]

Willet has a lot more professional wins than Keopka

<don't jump me. I'm not bashing Brooks>

[larssonlegend]

Anyone who starts a thread and posts Discuss with no other comment should be banned.

[imakaveli]

Are you guys still here randomly hating on Willett because his brother annoyed you during last years Ryder Cup?!? Move on...

[Thrillhouse]

I don't think the issue is losing drive, I think the issue with players like this (and there are several), who are decent solid pros, is that they win a big event like this and then they put all this pressure on themselves to be a top echelon player when they aren't a top echelon player, they're a journeyman who played above their ability level one week.

 

Putting a bunch of pressure on yourself to be something you're not in golf has a tendency to produce worse results, not better.

[Gem]

I don't think the issue is losing drive, I think the issue with players like this (and there are several), who are decent solid pros, is that they win a big event like this and then they put all this pressure on themselves to be a top echelon player when they aren't a top echelon player, they're a journeyman who played above their ability level one week.

 

Putting a bunch of pressure on yourself to be something you're not in golf has a tendency to produce worse results, not better.

 

I can see this happening on occasion but Willett was 12 in the World Rankings at the time so not really a journeyman pro.

[King_Slender]

 

This exactly. He shot a marvellous 67 on Sunday to win at the same time as the Golden Boy choked.

 

He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the idea that he "backed into a win" is laughable.

 

Willett did not have to hit one pressure shot on Sunday and was 7 down by the time he got to #12 and had to figure the tourney was over. Made a few birdies coming and in then pulled a lotto ticket.

 

Guys like Micheel, Hamilton, and Ben Curtis were all either leading going into the last round or were right in the thick of it at the end - Willett had none of that pressure.

[Thrillhouse]

I don't think the issue is losing drive, I think the issue with players like this (and there are several), who are decent solid pros, is that they win a big event like this and then they put all this pressure on themselves to be a top echelon player when they aren't a top echelon player, they're a journeyman who played above their ability level one week.

 

Putting a bunch of pressure on yourself to be something you're not in golf has a tendency to produce worse results, not better.

 

I can see this happening on occasion but Willett was 12 in the World Rankings at the time so not really a journeyman pro.

 

And Immelman was a multiple tour winner and presidents cup player that likely had a similar world ranking at the time of his masters win.

 

They were in form, no doubt, but not really top echelon players, and then after the win it's like "ok, now I have to step it up and be one of the top players in the world all the time". I think it's the "I have to step up and be X" thing that makes them go backwards.

[MMB1500]

This exactly. He shot a marvellous 67 on Sunday to win at the same time as the Golden Boy choked.

 

He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the idea that he "backed into a win" is laughable.

 

Willett did not have to hit one pressure shot on Sunday and was 7 down by the time he got to #12 and had to figure the tourney was over. Made a few birdies coming and in then pulled a lotto ticket.

 

Guys like Micheel, Hamilton, and Ben Curtis were all either leading going into the last round or were right in the thick of it at the end - Willett had none of that pressure.

 

Lol. Interesting interpretation of history there. See post #68. You must have missed the last four holes of Willett's round?

 

Incidentally, Willett was T5 after the third round of the Masters, three shots off the lead. I'm not sure how you define "right in the thick of it at the end" but certainly he had a legitimate shot at winning when he teed off in the final round, and win he did.

[imakaveli]

This exactly. He shot a marvellous 67 on Sunday to win at the same time as the Golden Boy choked.

 

He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the idea that he "backed into a win" is laughable.

 

Willett did not have to hit one pressure shot on Sunday and was 7 down by the time he got to #12 and had to figure the tourney was over. Made a few birdies coming and in then pulled a lotto ticket.

 

Guys like Micheel, Hamilton, and Ben Curtis were all either leading going into the last round or were right in the thick of it at the end - Willett had none of that pressure.

 

Lol. Interesting interpretation of history there. See post #68. You must have missed the last four holes of Willett's round?

 

Incidentally, Willett was T5 after the third round of the Masters, three shots off the lead. I'm not sure how you define "right in the thick of it at the end" but certainly he had a legitimate shot at winning when he teed off in the final round, and win he did.

 

Don't feed the troll

[knock it close]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=recency+bias&oq=recentcy&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l5.9334j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[rblmp32]

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

 

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

 

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

 

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

 

It's not that I'm a spieth fan, and for the record I understand and respect your (and others who side with you) position on this, I just don't see it the same way.

 

To me there is a difference between making a charge in the middle of the heat, or finishing it off with a lead, and posting a number from several groups back, not getting into the lead while on the course (or only having to deal with it for a hole or two), and hanging out while someone else falls off. You see it in tour events all the time with a Sunday 63 from the middle of the pack. Was it a great round? Sure, but I'm still going to call it backing in, and I understand that other people may not, it's a subjective thing.

 

Yeah, but that's not backing into a win. Backing into a win is when you f*** up. Alot. Late. And still win. You choked your win into a victory. Willett didn't do that. He stepped his game up to the highest level when he needed to. Yes, Speith choked away the win, but it was anyone's to win at that point when he messed up. Willett stepped up and won it. That's not backing into anything and never will be.

[Thrillhouse]

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

 

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

 

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

 

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

 

It's not that I'm a spieth fan, and for the record I understand and respect your (and others who side with you) position on this, I just don't see it the same way.

 

To me there is a difference between making a charge in the middle of the heat, or finishing it off with a lead, and posting a number from several groups back, not getting into the lead while on the course (or only having to deal with it for a hole or two), and hanging out while someone else falls off. You see it in tour events all the time with a Sunday 63 from the middle of the pack. Was it a great round? Sure, but I'm still going to call it backing in, and I understand that other people may not, it's a subjective thing.

 

Yeah, but that's not backing into a win. Backing into a win is when you f*** up. Alot. Late. And still win. You choked your win into a victory. Willett didn't do that. He stepped his game up to the highest level when he needed to. Yes, Speith choked away the win, but it was anyone's to win at that point when he messed up. Willett stepped up and won it. That's not backing into anything and never will be.

 

Weird response.

 

I'll agree that it's subjective, and I'll agree that there are different views on it, but something doesn't become false just because you say it's false.

 

IMO he backed into his masters win, that is backing into a win and it always will be.

[jslane57]

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

 

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

 

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

 

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

 

It's not that I'm a spieth fan, and for the record I understand and respect your (and others who side with you) position on this, I just don't see it the same way.

 

To me there is a difference between making a charge in the middle of the heat, or finishing it off with a lead, and posting a number from several groups back, not getting into the lead while on the course (or only having to deal with it for a hole or two), and hanging out while someone else falls off. You see it in tour events all the time with a Sunday 63 from the middle of the pack. Was it a great round? Sure, but I'm still going to call it backing in, and I understand that other people may not, it's a subjective thing.

 

Yeah, but that's not backing into a win. Backing into a win is when you f*** up. Alot. Late. And still win. You choked your win into a victory. Willett didn't do that. He stepped his game up to the highest level when he needed to. Yes, Speith choked away the win, but it was anyone's to win at that point when he messed up. Willett stepped up and won it. That's not backing into anything and never will be.

 

Weird response.

 

I'll agree that it's subjective, and I'll agree that there are different views on it, but something doesn't become false just because you say it's false.

 

IMO he backed into his masters win, that is backing into a win and it always will be.

I don't believe he backed into that win either. There was a door that opened, but he certainly didn't back in through it. If he had posted a good number prior to JS even teeing off, that would have been backing into the win...

[Thrillhouse]

There aren't enough players in the masters field to post a number before the leaders even tee off. He hung around the upper part of the leaderboard, spieth blew it, and he got himself a green jacket, whatever we call it we can all agree on that.

[Potatohead]

When I think of backing into a major I think of Paul Lawrie and Geoff Ogilvy

[Gem]

When I think of backing into a major I think of Paul Lawrie and Geoff Ogilvy

 

Ogilvy I agree Lawrie not. A final round 67 on Carnoustie in a strong wind then birdied 17+18 to win in the playoff is pretty good playing in my book.

[Potatohead]

When I think of backing into a major I think of Paul Lawrie and Geoff Ogilvy

 

Ogilvy I agree Lawrie not. A final round 67 on Carnoustie in a strong wind then birdied 17+18 to win in the playoff is pretty good playing in my book.

 

Fair enough, but he was still three back with one to go when JVDV puked all over the place. Mind you he did go out and win the playoff.

[glk]

I understanding teams backing into plays off of another teams loss ( to a different team ). But how does one back into a golf win? It ain't over until the final shot is holed. If ur in the clubhouse with the lead and others are "ahead" but still out on the course they aren't guaranteed the win. Gotta finish. Choken dogs I understand lol

 

[jslane57]

There aren't enough players in the masters field to post a number before the leaders even tee off. He hung around the upper part of the leaderboard, spieth blew it, and he got himself a green jacket, whatever we call it we can all agree on that.

The first time of the final round was 9:45am, the last time was 2:45pm. There were 58 players for the final round. Willitt teed off at 2:15pm, there were only 3 groups behind him. Willitt won by 3 strokes. Jordan bogies 12, instead of the quad, and it is a tie. Willitt was solid...

[Jasonic]

Y.E. Yang. Guy had more hybrids than my grandfather.

[williamsnrb]

Mike Weir. Hasn't broken par in years.

 

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

 

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

 

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

 

I know, I put Hamilton over micheel because Hamilton won a lot in Japan, the degree of weight people put into that will vary but IMO it's a major worldwide tour and at least he was winning somewhere.

 

What would have happened if Micheel would have won the 2006 PGA (he was runner-up to Tiger)? Two wins and both would be majors. That would be a conundrum for this thread. :) I'm biased because Shaun's a friend and an incredibly great guy. I happen to be in the camp that thinks these threads (that occur quite frequently on WRX, really) are dumbfounding because a major winner was the best in the world for four days. And that can't be debated. And, while I'm at it, I also feel that Willett backed into his green jacket. (I understand that there is an inherent contradiction between my last two sentences). :)

[williamsnrb]

 

 

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

 

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute. I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen. Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.

 

I know, not a perfect analogy. It may be just that I'm getting old, but I am amazed at the number of big hit 'artists' that totally suck these days.

 

Are you a studio musician or in a band?

 

 

Thanks for asking. I'm a composer of 'classical' music, so most of my income is from commissions. However I perform my and other people's music enough to know the gigging side of it.

 

I've found that golf and music do share many similarities. Most importantly both are enjoyable!

 

Modern classical? I thought that was just about gone, with the exception of scores. My dad raised me on classical. I could whistle along with Mozart symphonies when I was 5. If you are modest, plse PM me with anything you have available online, or post them. I would love to have a listen.

 

+1

 

I, too, have a soft spot for modern classical. Aaron Copland is my cup of tea.

[cmatthews77]

So first of all... I'm not a big fan of the "worst player to win a major" title because let's face it... whether you do it once or four times- it's a huge accomplishment each time and says "I beat the very best players in the world".

 

With that said, the players that have won a major golf championship and have the least impressive resume outside of it would be (modern era only):

 

1. Shaun Micheel (1 PGA Tour Win (major); 1 Asian Tour Win)

.

.

.

2. Rich Beem (3 PGA Tour wins)

3. Todd Hamilton (2 PGA Tour wins, 11 Japan Tour Wins)

4. Y.E. Yang (2 PGA Tour Wins, 3 European Tour wins, 5 Japan Tour, 2 Asian Tour)

5. Ben Curtis (4 PGA Tour Wins, '03 Open and Runner-Up in '08 PGA)

 

All were relative no names when they won.

 

Steve Jones (8 PGA Tour wins)

 

Both Trevor Immelman (2 PGA Tour, 4 European Tour) and Danny Willet (1 PGA Tour, 5 European Tour) were/are promising young players when they won the Masters. It is shocking to me how they've both completely fallen off. Trevor just lost his game somehow. Danny is not playing well and may or may not regain some form.

[Thrillhouse]

Mike Weir. Hasn't broken par in years.

 

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

 

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

 

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

 

I know, I put Hamilton over micheel because Hamilton won a lot in Japan, the degree of weight people put into that will vary but IMO it's a major worldwide tour and at least he was winning somewhere.

 

What would have happened if Micheel would have won the 2006 PGA (he was runner-up to Tiger)? Two wins and both would be majors. That would be a conundrum for this thread. :) I'm biased because Shaun's a friend and an incredibly great guy. I happen to be in the camp that thinks these threads (that occur quite frequently on WRX, really) are dumbfounding because a major winner was the best in the world for four days. And that can't be debated. And, while I'm at it, I also feel that Willett backed into his green jacket. (I understand that there is an inherent contradiction between my last two sentences). :)

 

If micheel won a second PGA he'd join Andy north as the worst 2 time major champion.

 

Nothing against the guy, good player, and I've never heard anyone say anything bad about him, plus his career was a million times better than mine was. This is just a debate about records, doesn't have anything to do with the person who owns those records.

[Shilgy]

Mike Weir. Hasn't broken par in years.

 

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

 

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

 

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

 

I know, I put Hamilton over micheel because Hamilton won a lot in Japan, the degree of weight people put into that will vary but IMO it's a major worldwide tour and at least he was winning somewhere.

 

What would have happened if Micheel would have won the 2006 PGA (he was runner-up to Tiger)? Two wins and both would be majors. That would be a conundrum for this thread. :) I'm biased because Shaun's a friend and an incredibly great guy. I happen to be in the camp that thinks these threads (that occur quite frequently on WRX, really) are dumbfounding because a major winner was the best in the world for four days. And that can't be debated. And, while I'm at it, I also feel that Willett backed into his green jacket. (I understand that there is an inherent contradiction between my last two sentences). :)

That would almost be Andy North. 3 wins and two of them are US Opens.

[williamsnrb]

 

 

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

 

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

 

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

 

I know, I put Hamilton over micheel because Hamilton won a lot in Japan, the degree of weight people put into that will vary but IMO it's a major worldwide tour and at least he was winning somewhere.

 

What would have happened if Micheel would have won the 2006 PGA (he was runner-up to Tiger)? Two wins and both would be majors. That would be a conundrum for this thread. :) I'm biased because Shaun's a friend and an incredibly great guy. I happen to be in the camp that thinks these threads (that occur quite frequently on WRX, really) are dumbfounding because a major winner was the best in the world for four days. And that can't be debated. And, while I'm at it, I also feel that Willett backed into his green jacket. (I understand that there is an inherent contradiction between my last two sentences). :)

 

If micheel won a second PGA he'd join Andy north as the worst 2 time major champion.

 

Nothing against the guy, good player, and I've never heard anyone say anything bad about him, plus his career was a million times better than mine was. This is just a debate about records, doesn't have anything to do with the person who owns those records.

 

:) I hear you! I was just giving full disclosure that I am biased, but the discussion overall, to me, is strange.

[new2g0lf]

Brooks went out on Sunday and won the US Open this weekend. Willett backed into the win at the 2016 Masters. What made me dislike him was not his brothers comments but Danny's support of his brothers comments after the Ryder Cup.

 

It was not a smart move to insult the US fan base when typically 3 of the 4 Majors are played here.