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3W vs Driver off the tee


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BREAKING NEWS.....THE OP SETS THE SUBJECT MATTER FOR THREADS........in case anyone forgot how things work......and anyone who thinks they know more than Phil about golf may want to see a shrink...especially when it comes to quoting ridiculous stats......just saying

 

ok, rant over.....time to LOCK IT UP and watch Phil go 3 iron and 3 wood all tourney.....

 

No, the OP does not control the discussion. The OP simply starts the discussion.

 

You should have your own blog and/or Twitter account. Then you can have the level of control that you seem to need.

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Most days, I wonder why I even have a 3 wood. When I need to bomb it, I hit my driver, when I need to hit a conservative shot, I go easy on my driver, and if I NEED it in the fairway, I hit my 20 degr

BREAKING NEWS.....THE OP SETS THE SUBJECT MATTER FOR THREADS........in case anyone forgot how things work......and anyone who thinks they know more than Phil about golf may want to see a shrink...especially when it comes to quoting ridiculous stats......just saying

 

ok, rant over.....time to LOCK IT UP and watch Phil go 3 iron and 3 wood all tourney.....

 

No, the OP does not control the discussion. The OP simply starts the discussion.

 

You should have your own blog and/or Twitter account. Then you can have the level of control that you seem to need.

lol...whatever....go start a thread on pancakes and we'll jump in and talk about fruity pebbles.....that seems to work all the time.
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BREAKING NEWS.....THE OP SETS THE SUBJECT MATTER FOR THREADS........in case anyone forgot how things work......and anyone who thinks they know more than Phil about golf may want to see a shrink...especially when it comes to quoting ridiculous stats......just saying

 

ok, rant over.....time to LOCK IT UP and watch Phil go 3 iron and 3 wood all tourney.....

 

No, the OP does not control the discussion. The OP simply starts the discussion.

 

You should have your own blog and/or Twitter account. Then you can have the level of control that you seem to need.

lol...whatever....go start a thread on pancakes and we'll jump in and talk about fruity pebbles.....that seems to work all the time.

 

If you asked more specific questions (or even just one specific question), you probably would've had more focused discussion.

 

What are your thoughts?

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BREAKING NEWS.....THE OP SETS THE SUBJECT MATTER FOR THREADS........in case anyone forgot how things work......and anyone who thinks they know more than Phil about golf may want to see a shrink...especially when it comes to quoting ridiculous stats......just saying

 

ok, rant over.....time to LOCK IT UP and watch Phil go 3 iron and 3 wood all tourney.....

 

No, the OP does not control the discussion. The OP simply starts the discussion.

 

You should have your own blog and/or Twitter account. Then you can have the level of control that you seem to need.

lol...whatever....go start a thread on pancakes and we'll jump in and talk about fruity pebbles.....that seems to work all the time.

 

If you asked more specific questions (or even just one specific question), you probably would've had more focused discussion.

 

What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are this.............im numb from this.......hoping the mods lock it soon....:)..........its been off topic since page 3
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BREAKING NEWS.....THE OP SETS THE SUBJECT MATTER FOR THREADS........in case anyone forgot how things work......and anyone who thinks they know more than Phil about golf may want to see a shrink...especially when it comes to quoting ridiculous stats......just saying

 

ok, rant over.....time to LOCK IT UP and watch Phil go 3 iron and 3 wood all tourney.....

 

No, the OP does not control the discussion. The OP simply starts the discussion.

 

You should have your own blog and/or Twitter account. Then you can have the level of control that you seem to need.

lol...whatever....go start a thread on pancakes and we'll jump in and talk about fruity pebbles.....that seems to work all the time.

 

If you asked more specific questions (or even just one specific question), you probably would've had more focused discussion.

 

What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are this.............im numb from this.......hoping the mods lock it soon.... :)..........its been off topic since page 3 post #2 (no one knew what the question was).

Fixed.

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What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are this.............im numb from this.......hoping the mods lock it soon.... :)..........its been off topic since page 3 post #2 RAWDOG started commenting....#truth

Fixed.

This is more like it.

 

You're quite bitter for someone who simply couldn't control a thread on a discussion forum. It's sad to see you suffer. So much adharma.

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What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are this.............im numb from this.......hoping the mods lock it soon.... :)..........its been off topic since page 3 post #2 RAWDOG started commenting....#truth

Fixed.

This is more like it.

 

You're quite bitter for someone who simply couldn't control a thread on a discussion forum. It's sad to see you suffer. So much adharma.

Just having some fun here sparky...lighthearted jabs at each other....you seem to be the captain of the SS mellowdrama, so as stated many times with you, move on....nobody cares about your constant attacks.......only the mods do....so ill say it one more time...move on please......#blocked
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What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are this.............im numb from this.......hoping the mods lock it soon.... :)..........its been off topic since page 3 post #2 RAWDOG started commenting....#truth

Fixed.

This is more like it.

 

You're quite bitter for someone who simply couldn't control a thread on a discussion forum. It's sad to see you suffer. So much adharma.

Just having some fun here sparky...lighthearted jabs at each other....you seem to be the captain of the SS mellowdrama, so as stated many times with you, move on....nobody cares about your constant attacks.......only the mods do....so ill say it one more time...move on please......#blocked

 

Unfortunately you won't see this but best wishes! I hope you find some peace. :)

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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

Ping G30 driver 3h 4h 5h stock stiff shafts

Bridgestone j40 DPC 6-PW x100

Vokey sm5 50/12F 56/10S x100

Taylormade Spider X

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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

 

Hitting the fairway might well be a simplistic goal, if anywhere in the fairway is satisfactory to the player. But it is not an incorrect view of the goal of the tee shot.

 

It might be different from what YOUR goal is, but it's very likely it is the goal of the majority of players.


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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

 

Hitting the fairway might well be a simplistic goal, if anywhere in the fairway is satisfactory to the player. But it is not an incorrect view of the goal of the tee shot.

 

It might be different from what YOUR goal is, but it's very likely it is the goal of the majority of players.

PREACH....
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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

 

Hitting the fairway might well be a simplistic goal, if anywhere in the fairway is satisfactory to the player. But it is not an incorrect view of the goal of the tee shot.

 

It might be different from what YOUR goal is, but it's very likely it is the goal of the majority of players.

 

 

Of course. This is a golf discussion forum. We believe this goal produces sub-optimal golf. It is up to readers to decide if "we" (Fawcett, Broadie, etc...) have made our case well enough that the term "fairway" can be incredibly misleading and that being short and being accurate are often mistaken for one another. This is the discussion. Some believe one thing, some believe others. Just because Person A has the goal of hitting the fairway doesn't mean that is an optimal goal. That's why this forum exists. So people can read posts with differing opinions, think "that makes some sense" and try out strategies and / or perspectives that they did not previously hold.

 

The contention that I (and others) are making is that the majority of players do not optimally strategize off the tee. We are not claiming to be the most popular view, we are claiming to be the correct one.

 

Now, one "side" of this discussion has contained quite a bit of information and links to academic studies and the other was basically taking a Mickelson quote out of context and adding "lol" to the end. But at the end of the day, its up to each individual golfer to decide what "accurate" means and to each individual golfer to decide what equipment, what practice and what aim lines will produce the lowest scores.

Ping G30 driver 3h 4h 5h stock stiff shafts

Bridgestone j40 DPC 6-PW x100

Vokey sm5 50/12F 56/10S x100

Taylormade Spider X

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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

 

Hitting the fairway might well be a simplistic goal, if anywhere in the fairway is satisfactory to the player. But it is not an incorrect view of the goal of the tee shot.

 

It might be different from what YOUR goal is, but it's very likely it is the goal of the majority of players.

 

 

Of course. This is a golf discussion forum. We believe this goal produces sub-optimal golf. It is up to readers to decide if "we" (Fawcett, Broadie, etc...) have made our case well enough that the term "fairway" can be incredibly misleading and that being short and being accurate are often mistaken for one another. This is the discussion. Some believe one thing, some believe others. Just because Person A has the goal of hitting the fairway doesn't mean that is an optimal goal. That's why this forum exists. So people can read posts with differing opinions, think "that makes some sense" and try out strategies and / or perspectives that they did not previously hold.

 

The contention that I (and others) are making is that the majority of players do not optimally strategize off the tee. We are not claiming to be the most popular view, we are claiming to be the correct one.

 

Now, one "side" of this discussion has contained quite a bit of information and links to academic studies and the other was basically taking a Mickelson quote out of context and adding "lol" to the end. But at the end of the day, its up to each individual golfer to decide what "accurate" means and to each individual golfer to decide what equipment, what practice and what aim lines will produce the lowest scores.

 

Very true, Pine, and well said.

 

Differing opinions. My particular opinion is all those studies, and $.75, will get me a cup of coffee at McDonalds. But I also know many people go wholeheartedly by the numbers. And I'm sure that works well for them.

 

It just raises a red flag for me when correct or incorrect, absolute terms, are used regarding something that is anything but.

 

And thanks for the very civil reply to my post which wasn't as cordial.


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So why is this in the equipment section? It is more about strategy and playing style than about specific clubs ad their attributes it seems.

 

Because if you are going to select equipment because it is "accurate" and your definition of "accurate" is poor you will select non-optimal equipment.

 

This thread is mostly about defining terms correctly and realizing that "hitting the fairway" is an incredibly simplistic (And incorrect) view of the goal of a tee shot. If you set out to find.purchase equipment to accomplish a non-optimal goal it is likely your equipment will be non-optimal.

 

Hitting the fairway might well be a simplistic goal, if anywhere in the fairway is satisfactory to the player. But it is not an incorrect view of the goal of the tee shot.

 

It might be different from what YOUR goal is, but it's very likely it is the goal of the majority of players.

 

 

Of course. This is a golf discussion forum. We believe this goal produces sub-optimal golf. It is up to readers to decide if "we" (Fawcett, Broadie, etc...) have made our case well enough that the term "fairway" can be incredibly misleading and that being short and being accurate are often mistaken for one another. This is the discussion. Some believe one thing, some believe others. Just because Person A has the goal of hitting the fairway doesn't mean that is an optimal goal. That's why this forum exists. So people can read posts with differing opinions, think "that makes some sense" and try out strategies and / or perspectives that they did not previously hold.

 

The contention that I (and others) are making is that the majority of players do not optimally strategize off the tee. We are not claiming to be the most popular view, we are claiming to be the correct one.

 

Now, one "side" of this discussion has contained quite a bit of information and links to academic studies and the other was basically taking a Mickelson quote out of context and adding "lol" to the end. But at the end of the day, its up to each individual golfer to decide what "accurate" means and to each individual golfer to decide what equipment, what practice and what aim lines will produce the lowest scores.

 

Very true, Pine, and well said.

 

Differing opinions. My particular opinion is all those studies, and $.75, will get me a cup of coffee at McDonalds. But I also know many people go wholeheartedly by the numbers. And I'm sure that works well for them.

 

It just raises a red flag for me when correct or incorrect, absolute terms, are used regarding something that is anything but.

 

And thanks for the very civil reply to my post which wasn't as cordial.

 

Unfortunately, that's most of the discussion on this site in regards to equipment and strategy.

 

"What are CBs are the softest?"

"Lay up to a yardage?"

"3w or driver off the tee?"

 

And you get people answering in absolutes when the answer should be... "it depends."

 

And here, since you're being a good sport, is a joke you guys might enjoy. Yes, sometimes stats can be a bit misleading...

 

Three econometricians went out hunting, and came across a large deer. The first econometrician fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second econometrician fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third econometrician didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

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in 2010, at the World Science fair, they concluded up to 85% of stats are misleading or false.

 

You realize that was a tongue-in-cheek joke because "85% of stats are false" *is* a stat, right?

 

I've read the paper. It would be good for our discussion if you would explain *why* you think Broadie and Fawcett's numbers are wrong, not just blanket state that stats are wrong. The World's Fair paper says that the two most common flaws are misinterpreting causation for correlation and imprecise measurement. What are your specific objections to their numbers and / or methodology? If 85% are wrong, then 15% must be right. You are placing the statistics we are citing into the 85% camp and not the 15% camp. Why? Why arn't we part of the 15%?

 

This is why we get a bit frustrated with your one-line posts filled with "...". Whats your beef? Why do you think our numbers are in the 85 camp and not the 15 camp?

 

Us: Here's a mountain of data that supports our position. Most golfers leaves strokes out there by being too timid.

You: Stats are dumb. Here's a stat that proves stats are dumb.

Us: What? No, what about these specific studies are incorrect or do you find unsupported?

You: Mickelson is playing the British Open with a 3 wood morons. Obviously you should hit a 3 wood at your local course.

 

"30% of the time 3 wood works 100% of the time"

Ping G30 driver 3h 4h 5h stock stiff shafts

Bridgestone j40 DPC 6-PW x100

Vokey sm5 50/12F 56/10S x100

Taylormade Spider X

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in 2010, at the World Science fair, they concluded up to 85% of stats are misleading or false.

 

You realize that was a joke because "85% of stats are false" *is* a stat, right?

 

Just roll with it. I think he was joking with us. Don't scare him off!

 

He's become our very own court jester! The jester struggles with actually being humorous though.

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in 2010, at the World Science fair, they concluded up to 85% of stats are misleading or false.

 

You realize that was a joke because "85% of stats are false" *is* a stat, right?

 

Just roll with it. I think he was joking with us. Don't scare him off!

 

He's become our very own court jester! The jester struggles with actually being humorous though.

 

Matt, I like your stuff, but I don't share those sentiments!

 

I've learned that humor is really tough to convey online sometimes. And sometimes the funniest comments are the most unexpected.

 

We're all just hassling each other at this point, and it's funny to me. I have no ill will here.

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If you hit it longer, and you don’t hit too many more wild shots, you can gain a lot versus laying back and hitting more fairways, but there are a lot of variables you have to take into account. Hitting it into the water, or out of bounds, if you do that a couple more times in 100 shots than somebody else, that would negate the advantage of the few extra yards of driving distance.

 

Guess who said that.

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If you hit it longer, and you don’t hit too many more wild shots, you can gain a lot versus laying back and hitting more fairways, but there are a lot of variables you have to take into account. Hitting it into the water, or out of bounds, if you do that a couple more times in 100 shots than somebody else, that would negate the advantage of the few extra yards of driving distance.

 

Guess who said that.

 

Broadie. I had that quote tattooed on my upper thigh.

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There are three types of lies – lies, damn lies, and statistics.” – Benjamin Disraeli

 

You must have a really hard time getting around since you have to assume your gas gauge is wrong 85% of the time.

Ping G30 driver 3h 4h 5h stock stiff shafts

Bridgestone j40 DPC 6-PW x100

Vokey sm5 50/12F 56/10S x100

Taylormade Spider X

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There are three types of lies – lies, damn lies, and statistics.” – Benjamin Disraeli

 

You must have a really hard time getting around since you have to assume your gas gauge is wrong 85% of the time.

 

Yeah, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

And ya know, a penny saved is a penny earned, don't eat cheese before noon...

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It really has been a revelation to stop worrying about fairway vs rough. I won't argue that some championship style courses I have played, medinah #3, calusa pines, southern highlands, etc will penalize you severely from the rough. But the reality is many of us don't play that style of golf all the time.

 

I guess it has sort of become after thought but my approach to a tee shot is to be as close to the green as is possible based on the layout of the hole, with an open shot at the flag. Rough, fairway or sand is acceptable because at that point it's about the next shot. Everyone can agree ob or water is bad, but with the exception of a horrid lie every 15-20 shots, you can at the very worst club up and aim to the center of the green.

 

It took me a few years to stop trying to buy a game and learn to hit the ball. It is very hard to come to grips with sometimes, but at some point your swing will let you down no matter how draw biased or low spinning your equipment is. A good, semi repeatable golf swing will get you better scores period. If you want to play safe golf and not practice I don't think anyone will argue with you. But to try and say I want to be a better golfer but not practice and use a strategy that is counter intuitive to any of the better players out there is incorrect.

 

As for Phil saying he doesn't need driver this week, it also worked for tiger before breakfast at Perkins. Did he not bring driver to the next stateside tournament? Of course he did, just like Phil will. You are talking about a course strategy specific to one tournament, not how to play golf over time.

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