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3W vs Driver off the tee


tsecor

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Pace of play will be a tad faster if more golfers leave their $$$$$ drivers at home. With my regular 4 some, we begged this one guy to be a bit more selective on when he wails at the ball with that driver. ..... we had not invited him since.

 

I can hit my 3 wood oh within 15 yards of my driver. But I can hit the fairway or position the ball much more accurate for my 2nd shot with my 3 wood. Par 5s, usually have wider fairways, I will use a driver.

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font][/size]

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What I find (or consider) to be an inaccuracy of PSG's analogy is that angular accuracy is all that is being taken into consideration. MANY have curvature issues with driver that they don't have with 3w (and vice versa!), that MUST be taken into consideration when playing a shot. It's NOT always the same angular degree of accuracy that falls into play on the course. The theory here is NOT that 3w is always better than driver, it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble. I have a buddy that can't hit his 3w for crap but is quite accurate with his driver. In his case, driver is almost always the best choice. Sure, knowing your stats and applying that knowledge to your game WILL make you a better player. But spouting generalities without knowing someones true stats is no help at all.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

I think this thread has done a good job of exploring the validity of this claim.

 

I, for one, am interested in knowing whether or not being potentially 8% closer to the hole but in the rough is actually costing me 5 strokes a round. I doubt it is, but wouldn't it be neat to measure and know for sure...?

yea. I think it depends on the type of rough of course, but we referenced Erin Hills a lot here.....if its that rough, PSG's theory goes in the trash can as we stated many times.....that rough would cost you 10 shots a side!! a 3 wood to the fairway?......glorious

 

Serious question as I wade into the thread (I've been lurking and reading it). The bolded part- are you literally talking about me? Or "you" as in amateurs, or "you" as in the field playing the US Open, or "you" as in JJ Watt who shot 1XX there? It makes a big difference in what point you're trying to convey.

"YOU" as in amateurs, which the thread was talking about until PSG started talking PGA pros.

 

Well, I found a nice analysis of the how penal the rough was at the US Open compared to other US Opens and other tour events if you're interested.

 

I'm not a big fan of picking one course to steer the entire debate. I know Erin Hills is timely, but it's not representative of what amateurs typically face. Whoever brought it up is irrelevant to me. The fairways are so darn wide and the length is so long, that even if I'm slightly more offline with my driver (not just a miss due to the driver going further but on the same line), I'd probably still use driver. Personally, I have confidence in my 460cc F7 playing at 44.5". I clean my face after each shot and note my impacts. They're pretty darn good.

 

Now, I'm not the same as you, and looking at MY game in particular is probably not useful to improving YOUR game if a 460cc head doesn't inspire confidence. When you asked for our thoughts, I'm legit curious what you thought people would say.

 

I would look at it as if ok, I have this three wood and it gets me out there and I do an ok job of putting the ball where I want, but someone came out with a new club, a club that can hit it even further! A driver!

 

I'd go, damn, that is pretty cool. It might take me a while to learn how to hit it, or maybe I need to find on with a smaller head or shorter shaft (points you hit on in your OP). I'd want to quantify how much of an advantage it would be if I bought one of these clubs. I'd think of it like a pitcher trying to learn a new pitch. It's a new weapon! It's an opportunity to up your game. View the driver as an asset.

 

I think we do a lot of generalizing on this site with anecdotes, but when people bring statistics into play that generalize how amateurs play, we balk at them. See the guy above asking about strategy on a specific hole, or talking about guys with negative AoAs who spin a driver so much that their 3w is automatically a better option. If we're talking about a broad, sweeping strategy for amateurs, Mark Broadie has already done the work. If we're talking about strategy for one particular player or on one particular hole, then discussion should be focused on that one particular thing.

 

Interchanging generalities with specifics seems to be wasting time.

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What I find (or consider) to be an inaccuracy of PSG's analogy is that angular accuracy is all that is being taken into consideration. MANY have curvature issues with driver that they don't have with 3w (and vice versa!), that MUST be taken into consideration when playing a shot. It's NOT always the same angular degree of accuracy that falls into play on the course. The theory here is NOT that 3w is always better than driver, it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble. I have a buddy that can't hit his 3w for crap but is quite accurate with his driver. In his case, driver is almost always the best choice. Sure, knowing your stats and applying that knowledge to your game WILL make you a better player. But spouting generalities without knowing someones true stats is no help at all.

 

BT

 

Wasn't the OP asking a question about amateurs in general? I have read your posts and understand your viewpoints, but I found that unless we know who the OP is referencing, generalities are all we've got. I wasn't aware the topic of conversation shifted to your buddy. I'm kidding a bit, but you get my point.

 

You say your buddy hits his 3w like crap. What's it look like? Does he top it? Sky it? Toe hooks? High fly balls to right?

 

I think you tangent about curvature is interesting.

 

I can pick a spot 250 away from the tee and try to hit it, right? Accuracy is the quality or state of being correct or precise. Is it important how I got the ball there, or is accuracy solely judged on where the ball stops in relation to where I intended it to be? If I set up for one shot shape but end up hitting a totally different one but I'm on the same line to my target, am I really that precise? Or was I lucky? Are we talking about directional accuracy only, or accuracy with distance, too? All good questions worthy of discussion.

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Pace of play will be a tad faster if more golfers leave their $$$$$ drivers at home. With my regular 4 some, we begged this one guy to be a bit more selective on when he wails at the ball with that driver. ..... we had not invited him since.

 

I can hit my 3 wood oh within 15 yards of my driver. But I can hit the fairway or position the ball much more accurate for my 2nd shot with my 3 wood. Par 5s, usually have wider fairways, I will use a driver.

 

You choose your playing partners based on their club choice? Wouldn't it just have been nicer to help him learn how to hit his driver more effectively? Millions of other people have learned how to hit drivers effectively. It can be done.

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Pace of play will be a tad faster if more golfers leave their $$$$$ drivers at home. With my regular 4 some, we begged this one guy to be a bit more selective on when he wails at the ball with that driver. ..... we had not invited him since.

 

I can hit my 3 wood oh within 15 yards of my driver. But I can hit the fairway or position the ball much more accurate for my 2nd shot with my 3 wood. Par 5s, usually have wider fairways, I will use a driver.

 

You choose your playing partners based on their club choice? Wouldn't it just have been nicer to help him learn how to hit his driver more effectively? Millions of other people have learned how to hit drivers effectively. It can be done.

 

I will make it simplier..... Not club choice, but the results due to club choice. When it is really hot, tired of waiting/helping this guy locate his ball.

 

Just a bit more info about this guy. He recently purchased a driver - fairway wood combo ... Callaway Epics. He is a very long hitter.... He can whack that 3 wood in the 260-275 mark....and very straight. When he used his $$$$ driver.... he whacks it further but now it has a curve....left of right. When he hits the boonies (which is always)..... we are looking at 5 1/2 to 6 hour round.

 

See ya later...

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font][/size]

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it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble.

 

We 100% agree on the goal (well, I would say "furthest down the hole with a clear view of the green complex" and not "fairway", but close enough), we just disagree how to get there. You have to make a choice about which club to hit in this situation. There has to be a method by which you make this choice. The best ways, in order:

 

1. Keep your own statistics for a significant period of time so you know your own game, and then make decisions based on what you have done in the past. The best predictor of future play is past play, so you will likely make extremely good decisions if you know your statistics very well and you use them to choose clubs from different tee boxes.

 

However, not everyone is going to do that or keep their own statistics. Fair enough. We go to option number 2, which is worse than keeping your own stats.

 

2. Listen to and use the advice of people (Wedzik, Bareski, Broadie, etc...) who have made it their life's work to study this, and make your decisions based on their conclusions. Not as good as having your own stats, but very likely to be right unless you are a very unique golfer.

 

If you are not going to keep your stats (#1) and your not going to listen to the experts because you know better (#2), then that leaves you number 3.

 

3. Kinda feel it out based on intuition and your feelings and thoughts about your own game. This is the strategy employed by 95%+ of golfers, and it is the least optimal. Most of the time (Read the Purdue Study linked earlier in the thread) these golfers arrive at their "statistics" through top-down analysis, working backwards from their own thoughts about how they play to what their statistics probably are (which is why you have some of the distance/accuracy claims in this thread - they are reverse engineered). This is least optimal.

 

1. Keep your stats. If not that then

2. Listen to the experts who have studied this for decades in an academic setting. If not that then

3. Guess.

 

The thing that strikes me as really off is that you guys keep telling me "its all about specifics" but you don't take a specific to a golfer approach. A specific to a golfer approach would involve knowing the game of that golfer inside and out. You use a golfer's fantasy retrospective about themselves approach, which is the worst of the three options.

 

EDIT

We are saying closer things than people realize here. The big difference is that you guys think a, say, 7 cap golfer can eyeball their own game and be correct about it and I don't. Our brains exhibit was too much categorization bias (shots are either "good" or "bad", clubs are either "my money club" or "i can't swing it") and recency bias (we value the most recent 2-3 rounds way too much in evaluating our skills / lack of skills).

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble.

 

We 100% agree on the goal, we just disagree how to get there. You have to make a choice about which club to hit in this situation. There has to be a method by which you make this choice. The best ways, in order:

 

1. Keep your own statistics for a significant period of time so you know your own game, and then make decisions based on what you have done in the past. The best predictor of future play is past play, so you will likely make extremely good decisions if you know your statistics very well and you use them to choose clubs from different tee boxes.

 

However, not everyone is going to do that or keep their own statistics. Fair enough. We go to option number 2, which is worse than keeping your own stats.

 

2. Listen to and use the advice of people (Wedzik, Bareski, Broadie, etc...) who have made it their life's work to study this, and make your decisions based on their conclusions. Not as good as having your own stats, but very likely to be right unless you are a very unique golfer.

 

If you are not going to keep your stats (#1) and your not going to listen to the experts because you know better (#2), then that leaves you number 3.

 

3. Kinda feel it out based on intuition and your feelings and thoughts about your own game. This is the strategy employed by 95%+ of golfers, and it is the least optimal. Most of the time (Read the Purdue Study linked earlier in the thread) these golfers arrive at their "statistics" through top-down analysis, working backwards from their own thoughts about how they play to what their statistics probably are (which is why you have some of the distance/accuracy claims in this thread - they are reverse engineered). This is least optimal.

 

1. Keep your stats. If not that then

2. Listen to the experts who have studied this for decades in an academic setting. If not that then

3. Guess.

 

The thing that strikes me as really off is that you guys keep telling me "its all about specifics" but you don't take a specific to a golfer approach. A specific to a golfer approach would involve knowing the game of that golfer inside and out. You use a golfer's fantasy retrospective about themselves approach, which is the worst of the three options.

Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........I play with guys who use range finders on every single shot and take 5 minutes on each shot judging wind, picking their spots, quoting all kinds of stats.....then they push or slice it into the rough and walk away with a double......i hit my 3 wood (when i need more accuracy) and walk away with par and laugh at the "pro" who does all this extra crazy stuff.....oh yea, i was 20 yards behind him but scored better.....

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it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble.

 

We 100% agree on the goal, we just disagree how to get there. You have to make a choice about which club to hit in this situation. There has to be a method by which you make this choice. The best ways, in order:

 

1. Keep your own statistics for a significant period of time so you know your own game, and then make decisions based on what you have done in the past. The best predictor of future play is past play, so you will likely make extremely good decisions if you know your statistics very well and you use them to choose clubs from different tee boxes.

 

However, not everyone is going to do that or keep their own statistics. Fair enough. We go to option number 2, which is worse than keeping your own stats.

 

2. Listen to and use the advice of people (Wedzik, Bareski, Broadie, etc...) who have made it their life's work to study this, and make your decisions based on their conclusions. Not as good as having your own stats, but very likely to be right unless you are a very unique golfer.

 

If you are not going to keep your stats (#1) and your not going to listen to the experts because you know better (#2), then that leaves you number 3.

 

3. Kinda feel it out based on intuition and your feelings and thoughts about your own game. This is the strategy employed by 95%+ of golfers, and it is the least optimal. Most of the time (Read the Purdue Study linked earlier in the thread) these golfers arrive at their "statistics" through top-down analysis, working backwards from their own thoughts about how they play to what their statistics probably are (which is why you have some of the distance/accuracy claims in this thread - they are reverse engineered). This is least optimal.

 

1. Keep your stats. If not that then

2. Listen to the experts who have studied this for decades in an academic setting. If not that then

3. Guess.

 

The thing that strikes me as really off is that you guys keep telling me "its all about specifics" but you don't take a specific to a golfer approach. A specific to a golfer approach would involve knowing the game of that golfer inside and out. You use a golfer's fantasy retrospective about themselves approach, which is the worst of the three options.

Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........I play with guys who use range finders on every single shot and take 5 minutes on each shot judging wind, picking their spots, quoting all kinds of stats.....then they push or slice it into the rough and walk away with a double......i hit my 3 wood (when i need more accuracy) and walk away with par and laugh at the "pro" who does all this extra crazy stuff.....oh yea, i was 20 yards behind him but scored better.....

 

The bold part has nothing to do with you. Mentioning this stuff makes it seem like you'd feel silly doing such things. And 5 minutes per shot for even 72 shots would equate to 6 hours. If they're making doubles... yikes!

 

Maybe they just aren't good at golf. But tracking their games (if they're doing it in an effective manner) shouldn't make them look foolish. And it shouldn't make them play worse. If it does, then they're doing something wrong. Don't worry about them and do what works for you.

 

If you just want to track stats your way, it's cool. Go for it.

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it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble.

 

We 100% agree on the goal, we just disagree how to get there. You have to make a choice about which club to hit in this situation. There has to be a method by which you make this choice. The best ways, in order:

 

1. Keep your own statistics for a significant period of time so you know your own game, and then make decisions based on what you have done in the past. The best predictor of future play is past play, so you will likely make extremely good decisions if you know your statistics very well and you use them to choose clubs from different tee boxes.

 

However, not everyone is going to do that or keep their own statistics. Fair enough. We go to option number 2, which is worse than keeping your own stats.

 

2. Listen to and use the advice of people (Wedzik, Bareski, Broadie, etc...) who have made it their life's work to study this, and make your decisions based on their conclusions. Not as good as having your own stats, but very likely to be right unless you are a very unique golfer.

 

If you are not going to keep your stats (#1) and your not going to listen to the experts because you know better (#2), then that leaves you number 3.

 

3. Kinda feel it out based on intuition and your feelings and thoughts about your own game. This is the strategy employed by 95%+ of golfers, and it is the least optimal. Most of the time (Read the Purdue Study linked earlier in the thread) these golfers arrive at their "statistics" through top-down analysis, working backwards from their own thoughts about how they play to what their statistics probably are (which is why you have some of the distance/accuracy claims in this thread - they are reverse engineered). This is least optimal.

 

1. Keep your stats. If not that then

2. Listen to the experts who have studied this for decades in an academic setting. If not that then

3. Guess.

 

The thing that strikes me as really off is that you guys keep telling me "its all about specifics" but you don't take a specific to a golfer approach. A specific to a golfer approach would involve knowing the game of that golfer inside and out. You use a golfer's fantasy retrospective about themselves approach, which is the worst of the three options.

Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........I play with guys who use range finders on every single shot and take 5 minutes on each shot judging wind, picking their spots, quoting all kinds of stats.....then they push or slice it into the rough and walk away with a double......i hit my 3 wood (when i need more accuracy) and walk away with par and laugh at the "pro" who does all this extra crazy stuff.....oh yea, i was 20 yards behind him but scored better.....

 

The bold part has nothing to do with you. Mentioning this stuff makes it seem like you'd feel silly doing such things. And 5 minutes per shot for even 72 shots would equate to 6 hours. If they're making doubles... yikes!

 

Maybe they just aren't good at golf. But tracking their games (if they're doing it in an effective manner) shouldn't make them look foolish. And it shouldn't make them play worse. If it does, then they're doing something wrong. Don't worry about them and do what works for you.

 

If you just want to track stats your way, it's cool. Go for it.

yea, i cant do all the "professional" set ups and routines the PGA robots do.....it would drive me nuts to play this great game in that manner. 5 hour rounds are not uncommon when playing with guys like that. I pick my line, get my target and try to hit that target.....that's it.....
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it's to play the club that will get you the furthest down the fairway and stay out of stroke-costing trouble.

 

We 100% agree on the goal (well, I would say "furthest down the hole with a clear view of the green complex" and not "fairway", but close enough), we just disagree how to get there. You have to make a choice about which club to hit in this situation. There has to be a method by which you make this choice. The best ways, in order:

 

1. Keep your own statistics for a significant period of time so you know your own game, and then make decisions based on what you have done in the past. The best predictor of future play is past play, so you will likely make extremely good decisions if you know your statistics very well and you use them to choose clubs from different tee boxes.

 

However, not everyone is going to do that or keep their own statistics. Fair enough. We go to option number 2, which is worse than keeping your own stats.

 

2. Listen to and use the advice of people (Wedzik, Bareski, Broadie, etc...) who have made it their life's work to study this, and make your decisions based on their conclusions. Not as good as having your own stats, but very likely to be right unless you are a very unique golfer.

 

If you are not going to keep your stats (#1) and your not going to listen to the experts because you know better (#2), then that leaves you number 3.

 

3. Kinda feel it out based on intuition and your feelings and thoughts about your own game. This is the strategy employed by 95%+ of golfers, and it is the least optimal. Most of the time (Read the Purdue Study linked earlier in the thread) these golfers arrive at their "statistics" through top-down analysis, working backwards from their own thoughts about how they play to what their statistics probably are (which is why you have some of the distance/accuracy claims in this thread - they are reverse engineered). This is least optimal.

 

1. Keep your stats. If not that then

2. Listen to the experts who have studied this for decades in an academic setting. If not that then

3. Guess.

 

The thing that strikes me as really off is that you guys keep telling me "its all about specifics" but you don't take a specific to a golfer approach. A specific to a golfer approach would involve knowing the game of that golfer inside and out. You use a golfer's fantasy retrospective about themselves approach, which is the worst of the three options.

 

EDIT

We are saying closer things than people realize here. The big difference is that you guys think a, say, 7 cap golfer can eyeball their own game and be correct about it and I don't. Our brains exhibit was too much categorization bias (shots are either "good" or "bad", clubs are either "my money club" or "i can't swing it") and recency bias (we value the most recent 2-3 rounds way too much in evaluating our skills / lack of skills).

 

Glad we agree. In all honesty, this all started with our disagreement on when a 3w should be played from the tee. Since MY game is the game I know best, I answer as to how I play. I don't just grab a club randomly, the decision is based on my 45 yrs of playing. Several times during that 45 yrs (well before Mr. Brodie wrote his book), I kept thorough stats on my game and it enlightened me as to HOW I was getting the scores I was getting AND what was causing the big numbers when they came along. I learned that Water and Trees cost a lot of strokes. I learned that traps are NOT as costly as many think once you understand how to play from them. I also learned a lot about different types of grasses and how they affect your shots based on grass depth. Rough can range from not mattering at all to mattering A LOT! I have played many courses where it was FAR better to be in a greenside trap than greenside rough and also some that were the other way around. I have played courses all over the US, UK and Caribbean. I am now 55 with chronic arthritis and other joint issues that I medicate with NSAIDs. I can't always execute the shots I plan because of this. However, I use my 45 yrs worth of information to plan my way around golf courses and do the best I can do.

 

In your opinion, it is better to play from 20 yds closer in the rough. In MY opinion, it depends on what kind of rough it is! When I was 25, I could rip a 3w out of 12' bahia grass and get real close to a green 250yds away. If I tried that now, I would be in therapy for a week (or more) with my freakin shoulder. So, I get that you're passionate about the book and it's potentials. But I again think you would benefit from polishing your presentation a good bit so that you don't come off as you have in this thread.

 

Well, I'm off to my lunch-range session..

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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When I was 25, I could rip a 3w out of 12' bahia grass and get real close to a green 250yds away.

Ok Jack lol

 

Sorry, didn't hold the shift key long enough.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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]Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........

 

Right. None of those stats help you choose a driver or a 3 wood, which is probably why you had to start this thread. If you kept a simple off the tee stat (any GPS app can do it easily), you'd know the answer immediately given a hole's design and the weather conditions. Since you don't keep tee stats, you are having trouble choosing tee clubs, which is why you started the thread. Number of putts and GIRs are both iron play stats for the most part (the biggest ingridient in number of putts is how close you start to the hole).

 

If you switched one of those stats for an off-the-tee stat, you could answer your original question with a very high degree of accuracy.

 

Or you could laugh at me and guess.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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]Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........

 

Right. None of those stats help you choose a driver or a 3 wood, which is probably why you had to start this thread. If you kept a simple off the tee stat (any GPS app can do it easily), you'd know the answer immediately given a hole's design and the weather conditions. Since you don't keep tee stats, you are having trouble choosing tee clubs, which is why you started the thread. Number of putts and GIRs are both iron play stats for the most part (the biggest ingridient in number of putts is how close you start to the hole).

 

If you switched one of those stats for an off-the-tee stat, you could answer your original question with a very high degree of accuracy.

 

Or you could laugh at me and guess.

sorry. I look at the fairway in front of me, look at the map on the card and feel how hard the wind is blowing or not and off i go. I don't need GPS for any of that....professionals don't either...just sayin. As for why i started this thread...you are WAY OFF once again....nice try though. You love to make up things while trying to hijack it and bring it in YOUR direction....have fun with it, but staying on point would be helpful
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]Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........

 

Right. None of those stats help you choose a driver or a 3 wood, which is probably why you had to start this thread. If you kept a simple off the tee stat (any GPS app can do it easily), you'd know the answer immediately given a hole's design and the weather conditions. Since you don't keep tee stats, you are having trouble choosing tee clubs, which is why you started the thread. Number of putts and GIRs are both iron play stats for the most part (the biggest ingridient in number of putts is how close you start to the hole).

 

If you switched one of those stats for an off-the-tee stat, you could answer your original question with a very high degree of accuracy.

 

Or you could laugh at me and guess.

sorry. I look at the fairway in front of me, look at the map on the card and feel how hard the wind is blowing or not and off i go. I don't need GPS for any of that....professionals don't either...just sayin. As for why i started this thread...you are WAY OFF once again....nice try though. You love to make up things while trying to hijack it and bring it in YOUR direction....have fun with it, but staying on point would be helpful

 

Your original post:

 

"Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop."

 

You have the word "if" in there. The only way to know IF that is happening is to measure it. IF you are hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough, then your OP makes sense. IF you are not, then it doesn't. IF you don't measure, then you don't know. You said nothing about feeling the wind and looking at the fairway in your original post. You asked a question that involved hard yardages. I answered it. IF you can do that, then yes, you should. The only way to know IF you can do that is to measure, because most golfers think they can and cannot.

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]Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........

 

Right. None of those stats help you choose a driver or a 3 wood, which is probably why you had to start this thread. If you kept a simple off the tee stat (any GPS app can do it easily), you'd know the answer immediately given a hole's design and the weather conditions. Since you don't keep tee stats, you are having trouble choosing tee clubs, which is why you started the thread. Number of putts and GIRs are both iron play stats for the most part (the biggest ingridient in number of putts is how close you start to the hole).

 

If you switched one of those stats for an off-the-tee stat, you could answer your original question with a very high degree of accuracy.

 

Or you could laugh at me and guess.

sorry. I look at the fairway in front of me, look at the map on the card and feel how hard the wind is blowing or not and off i go. I don't need GPS for any of that....professionals don't either...just sayin. As for why i started this thread...you are WAY OFF once again....nice try though. You love to make up things while trying to hijack it and bring it in YOUR direction....have fun with it, but staying on point would be helpful

 

Your original post:

 

"Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop."

 

You have the word "if" in there. The only way to know IF that is happening is to measure it. IF you are hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough, then your OP makes sense. IF you are not, then it doesn't. IF you don't measure, then you don't know. You said nothing about feeling the wind and looking at the fairway in your original post. You asked a question that involved hard yardages. I answered it. IF you can do that, then yes, you should. The only way to know IF you can do that is to measure, because most golfers think they can and cannot.

really? lol....you cant look down the fairway and see fi your ball is in the middle? you have to measure it? You GPS it for accuracy?....man o man....keep posting this stuff.....its classic material.....
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]Here are the stats I keep

 

1. how many GIR did I hit.

2. How many putts did I have

3. Final score

 

That's it........

 

Right. None of those stats help you choose a driver or a 3 wood, which is probably why you had to start this thread. If you kept a simple off the tee stat (any GPS app can do it easily), you'd know the answer immediately given a hole's design and the weather conditions. Since you don't keep tee stats, you are having trouble choosing tee clubs, which is why you started the thread. Number of putts and GIRs are both iron play stats for the most part (the biggest ingridient in number of putts is how close you start to the hole).

 

If you switched one of those stats for an off-the-tee stat, you could answer your original question with a very high degree of accuracy.

 

Or you could laugh at me and guess.

sorry. I look at the fairway in front of me, look at the map on the card and feel how hard the wind is blowing or not and off i go. I don't need GPS for any of that....professionals don't either...just sayin. As for why i started this thread...you are WAY OFF once again....nice try though. You love to make up things while trying to hijack it and bring it in YOUR direction....have fun with it, but staying on point would be helpful

 

Your original post:

 

"Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop."

 

You have the word "if" in there. The only way to know IF that is happening is to measure it. IF you are hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough, then your OP makes sense. IF you are not, then it doesn't. IF you don't measure, then you don't know. You said nothing about feeling the wind and looking at the fairway in your original post. You asked a question that involved hard yardages. I answered it. IF you can do that, then yes, you should. The only way to know IF you can do that is to measure, because most golfers think they can and cannot.

really? lol....you cant look down the fairway and see fi your ball is in the middle? you have to measure it? You GPS it for accuracy?....man o man....keep posting this stuff.....its classic material.....

 

No dude you measure it so that over time you know how far you hit it to a great degree of accuracy. I'm not saying you use GPS to tell if the drive you just hit is accurate. I'm saying you use it so that over, say, 50 rounds you know how far you hit the ball off the tee to a very precise degree of accuracy. When golfers look back over their last 20 rounds they are almost incapable of accurately remembering their average distance and accuracy, so you use GPS every time so you have the information *over a long period of time*.

 

If I asked you to average your accuracy and distance for the last 20 rounds in your head you'd come back with an answer that is almost certainly orders of magnitude incorrect. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

Obviously I'm not saying you GPS it so you can tell if the one drive you literally just hit is accurate.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

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Anyone else get the feeling that the next post from one of these guys will be, "Honey, don't forget, it's your turn to pick up the kids today."

 

I think you've made five joke-only posts in this thread and gotten zero likes. That's gotta be a record.

 

This is an interesting topic. I like discussing it with people, especially those who disagree, to get their perspective. You don't have to open the thread my man.

 

I expect better from somebody from New Hampshire! Must be Londonderry area.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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*For me*, club selection off the tee depends on how far I want to hit the ball to give me the best possible chance at a GIR.

 

What club would you hit off this tee? Assuming I'm playing from the blues, I'm going to hit my 230 club, even though it leaves me with a 170 approach. Trying to carry the fairway bunkers is too risky for me, because the fairway gets extremely narrow and crowned, so if I miss, not only will I be in the rough, but the ball is going to be a foot above/below my feet.

 

 

 

This is wrx; fly point D with a three wood

Overhaul 

Driver Testing 

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(I post these numbers for the sake of everyone in this thread. This isn't to prove or disprove any one at all, so please don't use it as such.)

 

I keep my strokes gained stats for every round. For 2017, here is my total driver vs. non-driver tee shot performance:

 

Driver: -1.86 strokes gained per round vs. PGA tour avg

Non-Driver: -0.73 strokes gained per round vs. PGA tour avg

 

Now, for the first 4 months that I played this year (no rounds during 4/17), here were my numbers:

 

Driver: -1.83

Non-Driver: -1.09

 

My main Non-Driver was a TEE CB5 15° three wood at 43"

 

For the last two months of golf, here are my numbers:

 

Driver: -1.91

Non-Driver: -0.01 (not a typo)

 

My new main Non-Driver is a TEE E8 beta 12° two wood at 43"

 

Keep your stats if you want to actually know what to do. Anecdotal evidence is poor, at best. Also, for some, like myself, driver isn't the best option on every hole, at this point in time. I have a swing issue, a driver that I'm not fit for, and 20+ years of love/hate with my driver and all of that leads to some poor swings. I have a ton (obviously) of trust in the 2w/3w off the tee. Also, the course I'm at has hazards on every side of every hole, literally. A poor swing at 110mph leads to dropping and hitting 3 off of a side hill lie in the rough.

 

That said, I will be getting the driver fit (tuned) for me and I am always working on the swing. Driver is the right play on quite a few holes, but, more succinctly, it's important for me to get better with the driver if I want to get to my scoring goals.

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[img]http://pxc86358mpx1hyn3hdxen4o1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/171831.png[/img]

 

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I got fit for an XR 16 Pro driver last fall, with a lower torque and slightly heavier R-flex shaft than my old one. This has really straightened out my drives, and of all the longer clubs I now have most confidence in my driver.

 

That said, I will hit a 5W or a 4H on shorter holes where I risk running out of landing area. (3W can be iffy; it varies day to day). Also, I may use other than driver on certain holes where a driver will put me 80 yards from the green, say on a downhill or sidehill lie. Some of the short holes I play have shallow greens, and I have more confidence in holding them with a full 9i off the flat, rather than a circus 3/4 PW.

 

Basically, if I have enough room to use its length, I hit the driver.

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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I for one think you really need to address the issue rather than playing a club that yes will be straighter but also shorter. For those who are okay with losing anywhere between 30+ yards off the tee, that can place you in shots with 200 plus yardages into the green then so be it.

 

But what if using your 3W over your driver doesn't result in a loss of distance? Because I'm actually averaging 10-15 yards FURTHER using my 3 wood. And more accurate.

 

 

I read his post carefully, which is why I said in mine that the distances were a bit sketchy and provided two analyses. Under the first analysis, using his first set of numbers, he is roughly 3.5% better than the best player on the PGA Tour with his 3 wood off the tee adjusted for distance and accuracy (Tony Finau, who has 41 foot proximity on 852 feet of distance). Under the second analysis, using his second set of numbers, he is no longer claiming to be the best player on the PGA Tour but simply in the bottom 2/3rds, about as good as Chez Reavie (240 at around 70%). So even though he didn't provide an accuracy percent for the second set of numbers, if we assume a natrual progression he's claiming to be Chez Reavie and if we assume a HUGE drop in accuracy (giving him the benefit of every single doubt) he is still claiming to be better than most of the web.com tour and very close to Kevin Streelman (Streelman is better, but not by much).

 

I read his post, and I did analysis on 60-70% hit at the first yardage and then a few with different scenarios at the second. So yes, I think he is delusional.

 

Mind you, everything I'm discussing in my thread are BRAND NEW CLUBS that I've played 4 rounds of golf with. All the data I'm using is coming off of 4 rounds of golf. That is not very many, at all. Clearly, the more I play with them, the lower my Fairway's hit percentage will get. You keep referencing Web.com player's averages for some strange reason...you do realize those are based off of MANY MANY MANY rounds, right? You know, even for a 7 handicapper (trending at 6.0 currently), can get a bit streaky, right? It's not unheard of to have a couple really solid rounds in a week's worth of time. The difference between me and a professional, is they keep up that level of playing over entire seasons. Their averages are based on so many more rounds of golf than 4. Which makes it harder and harder to have higher percentages and yardages.

 

So yes, am I currently hitting 60% of fairways/accuracy with my 3wood? Yes, I am. Do I expect that to continue after 10 rounds? After 20 rounds? Not at all.

 

I think this is extremely common, and this thought process has been studied in golfers. Its called top down thinking. Here is how it works:

 

1. My 3 wood is my best club.

2. What are good numbers for a 3 wood? After all, its my best club.

3. Eh, 250 and 60%.

 

Okay first and foremost, I never said my 3 wood is my best club. I'm not trying to make my 3 wood my best club. I have no loyalty to my 3 wood. I have simply played 4 rounds with it, and hit it off a handful of tees. I literally posted actual statistics from a round of golf. So how can you equate using a GPS tracking system to making up numbers that sound good? And you think I'm the delusional one? You're the one acting like Trump over here, brushing off actual facts and claiming everything as "false news".

 

There is a 0% chance, 0%, that if I tee'd up 100 balls he is hitting 60 of them in the fairway past a 240 yard line AND that he's a 7 cap. Those two things cannot both be true. If he was scratch, fine. But a 7? Ridiculous.

 

Oooh. I'd LOVE to take you up on that. Come out to Denver, we will head to a course when it's not busy. We'll pick a hole, I'll bring 100 shag balls, and I'll hit them all. We can both walk down and count how many landed in the fairway, and use GPS tracking (Game Golf), Laser Rangefinders, and phone apps. I'd place a nice bet that I could.

 

It's absolutely hilarious that you know absolutely nothing about me besides a handful of posts on an internet message board, yet you give me 0% odds in making that happen. You clearly don't bet much. Hell, I'd even give a 20 handicapper about a 5% chance at being able to do it. To deal in such absolutes is super hyperbolic and annoying. You're annoying.

 

The reason people get fooled by this is because it is exponential. As you lose yardage, you gain accuracy. Its not linear. So if he was 220 (instead of 240) that doesn't sound like much, but it makes him 20 yards shorter AND about 10% more accurate, so the numbers come down fast. I might buy 220 and 60% or 240 and 40%. There is no chance he is that good.

 

What don't you understand? I am getting more distance out of my current 3 wood than my current driver. Period. Plain and simple. I'm having better accuracy and more distance. I'm not losing distance when choosing to tee off with a 3W over a driver. And honestly, 240 yards in Colorado's elevation isn't even that good. Like, I'm not even trying to brag about this. Sea level I'm getting like 200 cary, 220 rollout with my 3 wood. You think that is something I'd be sitting here arguing about on the internet?

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Its not that the previous poster is a bad guy or a liar, its just that he reversed -engineered his numbers. He thought "I'm good with a 3 wood, what are good 3 wood numbers?" and then made them up.

 

Like I have said before, I'm not making anything up. I track every single shot I take, during every single round I play, using Game Golf. I know my average distances with every club. I know my fairways hit. I know my greens in reg. I know my number of putts. I know my number of sand saves. I know my scrambling percentage. I know strokes gained. You make me sound like I'm some kid that just picked up the sport and am trying to impress people on the internet. I've been playing 95% of my life.

 

This is why you should keep your statistics.

 

And that's exactly why I do keep my statistics. Very, very detailed statistics.

 

8Os26D6h.jpg

 

Here's how I mark my scorecard. Not just greens & fairways, but putts...as well as every single club I use for every single shot. "This is why you should keep statistics". Please.

 

When I use the term "accuracy" I mean in terms of planning shots, not in terms of results. The topic is "should you scale back and hit your 3 wood" ? In order to answer that, you need to figure out if your 3 wood is actually more accurate or just happens to put you in good places on a particular course because its shorter.

 

I'll say it once more, in hopes you will actually get it. I am not scaling anything back by choosing my 3 wood. In fact, I'm choosing my 3 wood because I want to hit it further. Do I expect everyone that plays golf to hit their 3 wood further than their driver? Absolutely not. But for me, with my current bag, that is simply what I'm seeing. It wasn't that way with my previous set up. I never took a 3 wood off the tee with my SLDR in the bag. It's only in the past 4 rounds that I've struggled hitting my new driver, so I've chosen my new 3 wood that creates better results.

 

 

If I'm reading this right, you are concluding you are normally 60% off the tee with a three wood averaging 250 because you did it 3 out of 5 times during a round in which you shot -1 as a 7 cap?

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because this is a brand new 3 wood. Also a brand new driver. My sample size is VERY VERY small right now. I understand that, apparently you do not. That is why trying to compare my numbers to a tour pro is laughable and ignorant.

 

You said you had statistics for your previous set up, and those statistics were similar (and would also rank you as one of the best three wood strikers in the world). For those statistics, how many rounds did you have? What were the statistics with the old slider? What out of what? (you also cited statistics for your older setup, which is odd because they were even but must have had a ton of rounds).

 

Yes, I have MANY more rounds with my old setup.

 

Here are my driver statistics for my NEW M1 440. I have 4 rounds using it.

 

Fairways Hit: 65%

Average Drive: 243 yards

Furthest drive: 307 yards

Shortest Drive: 179 yards

Missed Left: 5%

Missed Right: 30%

 

Old SLDR 430. I have probably 30 or so rounds using it.

 

Fairways Hit: 57%

Average Drive: 257 yards

Furthest Drive: 347 yards

Shortest Drive: 188 yards

Missed Left: 19%

Missed Right: 24%

 

I have lost a lot of distance with my new driver. Because I have been hitting it not as far, I've been choosing to hit my new 3 wood off the tee, because I'm hitting the ball further. It's not very hard to understand. Now, if I was SUPER concerned about only hitting fairways, I'd be taking my 3-Hybrid off the tee. My new hybrid I've hit 100% of fairways off the tee, but only average a distance of 210. So in that instance, I'd be sacrificing distance for accuracy. But taking my 3 wood off the tee isn't sacrificing distance at all.

 

Just because you seem to be hard of understanding, I'll go ahead and post new 3 wood vs old 3 wood stats. Because, you know, I have them.

 

Old 3 wood. SLDR-S 3 wood I purchased used and wasn't fit for.

 

Fairways Hit: 50%

Average Distance: 244 yards

Longest Drive: 246 yards

Shortest Drive: 242 yards

Missed Left: 0%

Missed Right: 50%

 

Now, those stats are literally based off of TWO shots. In the 7 months of owning that club, I only took it off the tee 2 times. Why? Because I was confident with my driver. Because I had good fairways and distance averages with my driver. I had no need to take the 3 wood off the tee. But that changed when I switched to my new M1.

 

With my new M2 Tour 3 Wood, with 4 rounds total (but only 10 drives total).

 

Fairways Hit: 50%

Average Distance: 253 yards

Longest Drive: 286 yards

Shortest Drive: 215 yards

Missed Left: 20%

Missed Right: 30%

 

So compare Old Driver vs Old 3 Wood. My old driver was a better choice, and that's why I used it to tee off nearly every hole.

Now compare New Driver vs New 3 Wood. I'm hitting the ball better and getting more distance out of it. That's why I'm using my new 3 wood off the tee more often. This thread was literally created asking about taking a 3 wood off the tee. I'm taking a 3 wood off the tee because it's yielding better results than my driver.

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"These go to 11."

 

I had to go watch that on Youtube after this post.

 

LOL

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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So compare Old Driver vs Old 3 Wood. My old driver was a better choice, and that's why I used it to tee off nearly every hole.

Now compare New Driver vs New 3 Wood. I'm hitting the ball better and getting more distance out of it. That's why I'm using my new 3 wood off the tee more often. This thread was literally created asking about taking a 3 wood off the tee. I'm taking a 3 wood off the tee because it's yielding better results than my driver.

 

We would quibble about which statistics to keep I guess ("fairways" doesn't mean much, its course dependent - if your playing a course we have here called Lakewood, hitting the fairway is incredibly easy. If your playing the Bridges, its incredibly hard.) but this is very close to what I'm talking about doing. Once you get enough data in there for your new 3 wood you can reach some meaningful conclusions using this method. I'm not sure if you still have them, but Old Driver / New 3 Wood is of course an option.

 

Were you a very low cap at one point? 57% on 257 is *really* good (I'm assuming a standard 30 yard wide fairway, so 15 either side). I'm a low single digit and play mini-tours occasionally without making a fool of myself and that is only slightly behind me. I'm longer but less accurate, but I would never think a 7 would put up numbers like that.

 

Now that i Know the 260/60% its based on one round and five shots where you shot -1, it makes a whole lot more sense. Those statistics are absolutely excellent for your handicap (although not unbelievable like the ones based on one round). Charting your rounds like this is exactly how you can make good decisions off the tee box (and know what to practice too).

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      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies
    • 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Tuesday #1
       
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Hardy - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Seamus Power - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Hadwin - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Kurt Kitayama - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nicolai Hojgaard - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Brandon Wu - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JT Poston - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Dunlap - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Alex Smalley - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pau Gasol WITB (2x NBA Champion, 6x All-Star) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Josh Allen WITB (NFL Quarterback, Buffalo Bills) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Matt Kuchar - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JJ Spaun - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Svensson - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Scott (mini) - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Taylor Moore - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      TaylorMade putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pebble Beach Golf Links (holes 7 & 8) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Odyssey putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Lucas Glover going to test black Srixon ZX5 & ZX7 irons - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Justin Thomas wrist training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Stephen Sweeney's Putting Ballistic putting training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Chris Kirk club changes - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies

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