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Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?


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16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Past....hey RoboDoc....remember that post I had on the previous page? The one you “liked “?  Go read it again as it was understanding sarcasm.

  Then read @golfandfishing ‘s post again.

 

phew, my job here is done for the day😊


You know this thread gets me all wound up.  I need to just keep scrolling by.  Lol

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This thread was funny. I can’t believe that people don’t understand how ridiculous the original premise was. But let’s just say for arguments sake that  the day after the masters we held a one day tou

WARNING: LONG, DETAILED RANT!!   First off, I am an actual "scratch" golfer. Last year, I peaked as low as +2.0, but my average index for the year was +0.4. I play legit, amateur tournament

Excellent point Jeff.  No lions indeed.       what we are reading here is simply the split between traveling scratch players and those who aren’t.  I’ll get flames for saying that.  But.  

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4 minutes ago, cdnglf said:


Until Dean Knuth actually sets foot on the course, on the greens, and conducts legitimate tests to gauge the course rating of the Masters tournament, let alone ANGC, his estimated rating is just that.  He's never stepped foot on the green complexes and being outside the ropes simply doesn't merit an accurate assessment.  I don't care how many courses he's done.  Every other course he stepped foot on and conducted tests on the course.  For him to pass off his estimate as fact is ridiculous.  
 

Of course we have beaten this like a dead horse.  You believe in it and I will never believe Knuth's assessment of ANGC until he does his tests each day of the tournament and on the course itself.  

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1 minute ago, RobotDoctor said:


Until Dean Knuth actually sets foot on the course, on the greens, and conducts legitimate tests to gauge the course rating of the Masters tournament, let alone ANGC, his estimated rating is just that.  He's never stepped foot on the green complexes and being outside the ropes simply doesn't merit an accurate assessment.  I don't care how many courses he's done.  Every other course he stepped foot on and conducted tests on the course.  For him to pass off his estimate as fact is ridiculous.  
 

Of course we have beaten this like a dead horse.  You believe in it and I will never believe Knuth's assessment of ANGC until he does his tests each day of the tournament and on the course itself.  

But your estimate is better because you’ve been outside the ropes? 

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43 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

But your estimate is better because you’ve been outside the ropes? 

 
I never gave an estimate.  I would never do that because I don't have the expertise.  In my line of work I don't pass an estimate as fact.  I work with empirical data, not guesses based on past projects.  
 

I've been consistent in that under the exact criteria I believe a scratch cannot break 85.  I might change that if the golfer is a scratch from Oakmont CC.  That might be the lone exception because the green complexes are more severe at Oakmont than ANGC. 

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22 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

The RobotDoc HAS BEEN THERE!  

 
But I have never had the audacity to give a course rating.  Like I said to Shilgy I based my opinion on the original criteria.  
 

Yes, I've been there.  Have you?  Don't be condescending. 

Edited by RobotDoctor

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The original stated conditions weren't that this guy would break 85, the guy guaranteed he'd break 80, again with the stated conditions - tournament conditions for Sunday, coming in blind, hour warmup, no caddie, etc.  

 

After that, Sunday tournament conditions meant no fans, then all sorts of different takes that kind of wandered throughout the thread from the original post and kind of changed it up a bit, if not a lot.

 

Who knows, but I'd definitely bet against the guy making the original boast to the OP.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

 
But I have never had the audacity to give a course rating.  Like I said to Shilgy I based my opinion on the original criteria.  
 

Yes, I've been there.  Have you?  Don't be condescending. 

I haven’t been there, but I have seen it on tv and man it looks hilly as a motherfather!!!!  Do you happen to know if it’s private?

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9 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The original stated conditions weren't that this guy would break 85, the guy guaranteed he'd break 80, again with the stated conditions - tournament conditions for Sunday, coming in blind, hour warmup, no caddie, etc.  

 

After that, Sunday tournament conditions meant no fans, then all sorts of different takes that kind of wandered throughout the thread from the original post and kind of changed it up a bit, if not a lot.

 

Who knows, but I'd definitely bet against the guy making the original boast to the OP.

 

 


You're right!  Why am I fixated on 85.  The OP said in the first post that be and his buddy beliefs a scratch could break 80 under Sunday Masters tournament conditions, tournament tees, never seeing the course, no caddie and an hour warmup.  Unbelievable and totally naive.  

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2 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

I haven’t been there, but I have seen it on tv and man it looks hilly as a motherfather!!!!  Do you happen to know if it’s private?


No.  It's public. They let anyone in.  I bet you're scratch and drive the ball farther than Bryson Dechambeau or Kyle Berkshire.  I'm sure they'll roll out the red carpet for such a great ball striker like yourself.  Go ahead, I bet you're golf skills might match your sarcasm and you'll score even par or better under the original criteria.  Who knows, maybe you'll get an invitation to next years Masters and will win yourself a Green Jacket.  I have a feeling you won't even need to see the course and can carry your own bag (no caddie needed) and simply dominate.  
 

I'm rooting for you!  Go get 'em Skippy!

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Wedges:  Scratch Golf 1018 forged: 52°, 58°, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff ||  Putter: Byron Morgan custom Epic Day

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9 minutes ago, farmer said:

Here's the deal.  G&F was being sarcastic/tongue-in-cheek.  You missed that.


I suppose.  This thread makes me a bit crazy.  Of course my last response I tried to be as tongue and cheek as G&F has been.  Trying to turn over a new leaf.  😁

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4 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:


No.  It's public. They let anyone in.  I bet you're scratch and drive the ball farther than Bryson Dechambeau or Kyle Berkshire.  I'm sure they'll roll out the red carpet for such a great ball striker like yourself.  Go ahead, I bet you're golf skills might match your sarcasm and you'll score even par or better under the original criteria.  Who knows, maybe you'll get an invitation to next years Masters and will win yourself a Green Jacket.  I have a feeling you won't even need to see the course and can carry your own bag (no caddie needed) and simply dominate.  
 

I'm rooting for you!  Go get 'em Skippy!

Well I’m going to enter the Monday Qualifier then and show you!  

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Just now, golfandfishing said:

Well I’m going to enter the Monday Qualifier then and show you!  


Can I caddy for you?  Wait, no caddies for you.  I'm pulling for you do make it through the qualifier!!!!

 

In all seriousness I will be at the Masters next year (Tuesday) so I'll keep an eye out for you.  

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4 hours ago, RobotDoctor said:


Until Dean Knuth actually sets foot on the course, on the greens, and conducts legitimate tests to gauge the course rating of the Masters tournament, let alone ANGC, his estimated rating is just that.  He's never stepped foot on the green complexes and being outside the ropes simply doesn't merit an accurate assessment.  I don't care how many courses he's done.  Every other course he stepped foot on and conducted tests on the course.  For him to pass off his estimate as fact is ridiculous.  
 

Of course we have beaten this like a dead horse.  You believe in it and I will never believe Knuth's assessment of ANGC until he does his tests each day of the tournament and on the course itself.  

 

I posted it for those new to the thread. No interest in re-engaging with you. Your arguments made no sense 3 years ago and nothing has changed since then.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

 

I posted it for those new to the thread. No interest in re-engaging with you. You arguments made no sense 3 years ago and nothing has changed since then.

 

 


Oh good. So it's not just me who's argument makes little logical sense and is pure conjecture.  While I don't discount Knuth's ability to rate a course he has full access to, he is purely speculating with no empirical data here.  Problem with Knuth is his course rating of ANGC has no tested factual basis.  If Knuth can produce the results of actual testing and data he obtained while actually measuring slope, speed, stimpmeter readings, etc from when he obtained ANGC then I will accept them. If his rating is based on his opinion then it isn't based on data, just opinion.  I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on this.  

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My brother in law is scratch or close to it. Totally gifted golfer. He knows a former Masters champ well and played with him the Sunday before it started and shot 84. Granted this doesn’t meet the OP conditions etc. Much easier the Sunday before the tournament than on the final round Sunday.

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10 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:


Oh good. So it's not just me who's argument makes little logical sense and is pure conjecture.  While I don't discount Knuth's ability to rate a course he has full access to, he is purely speculating with no empirical data here.  Problem with Knuth is his course rating of ANGC has no tested factual basis.  If Knuth can produce the results of actual testing and data he obtained while actually measuring slope, speed, stimpmeter readings, etc from when he obtained ANGC then I will accept them. If his rating is based on his opinion then it isn't based on data, just opinion.  I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on this.  


The foremost course rating expert in the world is off by 8 and Augusta is 5 strokes harder than any other course in the world because... you attended the Masters once?

🤦‍♂️ 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, cdnglf said:


The foremost course rating expert in the world is off by 8 and Augusta is 5 strokes harder than any other course in the world because... you attended the Masters once?

🤦‍♂️ 

 

 

 


Whatever.  His rating at ANGC, no matter how accurate his other course ratings are, is pure conjecture.  No empirical data to support his assumption.  In a court of law no factual basis gets a case dismissed.  I'm not saying he's wrong but he has no concrete facts or data to support his claim.  Yet many take it as gospel.  If he had access, was able to collect the data as he does with every other course and rated the course 75.8 or 81.3 then I'd accept that.  As it stands the 78.1 is just speculation.  Quite possible to be close or even accurate but absolutely no facts to prove it.  

Edited by RobotDoctor

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What did Dean Knuth rate Oakmont on a Sunday round at the last US Open?  Anyone?

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Wedges:  Scratch Golf 1018 forged: 52°, 58°, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff ||  Putter: Byron Morgan custom Epic Day

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7 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:


Whatever.  His rating at ANGC, no matter how accurate his other course ratings are, is pure conjecture.  No empirical data to support his assumption.  In a court of law no factual basis gets a case dismissed.  I'm not saying he's wrong but he has no concrete facts or data to support his claim.  Yet many take it as gospel.  If he had access, was able to collect the data as he does with every other course and rated the course 75.8 or 81.3 then I'd accept that.  As it stands the 78.1 is just speculation.  Quite possible to be close or even accurate but absolutely no facts to prove it.  


And your facts are... you attended the Masters once.

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So lets just say the rating is an exaggerated 82.  You're supposed to shoot your cap about 1 in 3 times.  So that means if you had 30 random scratches play,

approximately 8-10 of them would shoot 82.  If you have a problem with that, please write the USGA and tell them the handicap system is flawed.  I said this about

35 pages ago: there's no barbed wire or land mines preventing you from walking on the greens.  It's still a golf course people.  I promise you I've played harder.  Also,

I personally know 3 different guys that are +1-1 handicaps that have played it the week after the Masters.  All criteria met and all under 85.  Granted this year the greens

looked a little firmer than in years past...

 

 

 

Edited by isaacbm
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7 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Well,

 

Freddie shot 79, 79

 

Vijay shot 79, 80

 

Course both are HoF PGA pros, still play on the CT, have played Augusta hundreds of times.

 

Oh yeah, and they both won there.

 

But I’m sure a scratch could head over and hang close to them at Augusta just fine ; )


Mike Weir shot a 71. Sure feels like he’s been about scratch for the last decade. 😉 

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13 minutes ago, cdnglf said:


Mike Weir shot a 71. Sure feels like he’s been about scratch for the last decade. 😉 


 

This argument is way above my golf pay grade.

 

But @isaacbm seems to have it locked down. And it makes sense. A true scratch could definitely do it. But they could absolutely blow up some holes and go totally off the rails at that place. 

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7 hours ago, cdnglf said:


And your facts are... you attended the Masters once.


Very good Captain Obvious.  

Edited by RobotDoctor
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Hybrid:  TaylorMade SLDR 2 Iron Hybrid 17°, Graphite Design Tour AD DI 85S Hybrid  ||  Irons:  Ben Hogan Icon 4-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff

Wedges:  Scratch Golf 1018 forged: 52°, 58°, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff ||  Putter: Byron Morgan custom Epic Day

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