PXG sues Taylor Made

[BostonWRX]

yep Nike never made a profit in any year making equipment even when Tiger was at his prime. But in the end it was probably still a good move as it let them enter in the softgoods part of the business where they make real margins.

 

Unless you were on the inside of Nike Leadership, it's hard to know who to believe.

 

When Cindy Davis retired and left Nike Golf in 2014, I found the press released that NIKE issued.

 

In the release Jayme Martin, vice president and general manager, global categories, Nike Inc., says,

"We thank Cindy for her leadership throughout the years as she has led the development and growth of Nike's golf business worldwide. Under Cindy's direction, Nike Golf has steadily delivered profitable growth year after year since 2009."

 

If this statement is correct, they were profitable for at least 5 years. Now that "profitable growth" may have not met NIKE targets and goals which may have been unrealistic when looking at the industry as a whole.

Wonder if it included apparel?

[ZBigStick]

yep Nike never made a profit in any year making equipment even when Tiger was at his prime. But in the end it was probably still a good move as it let them enter in the softgoods part of the business where they make real margins.

 

Unless you were on the inside of Nike Leadership, it's hard to know who to believe.

 

When Cindy Davis retired and left Nike Golf in 2014, I found the press released that NIKE issued.

 

In the release Jayme Martin, vice president and general manager, global categories, Nike Inc., says,

"We thank Cindy for her leadership throughout the years as she has led the development and growth of Nike's golf business worldwide. Under Cindy's direction, Nike Golf has steadily delivered profitable growth year after year since 2009."

 

If this statement is correct, they were profitable for at least 5 years. Now that "profitable growth" may have not met NIKE targets and goals which may have been unrealistic when looking at the industry as a whole.

Wonder if it included apparel?

Definitely.

Nike Golf encompassed Equipment, apparel and footwear.

[Holy Moses]

yep Nike never made a profit in any year making equipment even when Tiger was at his prime. But in the end it was probably still a good move as it let them enter in the softgoods part of the business where they make real margins.

 

Unless you were on the inside of Nike Leadership, it's hard to know who to believe.

 

When Cindy Davis retired and left Nike Golf in 2014, I found the press released that NIKE issued.

 

In the release Jayme Martin, vice president and general manager, global categories, Nike Inc., says,

"We thank Cindy for her leadership throughout the years as she has led the development and growth of Nike's golf business worldwide. Under Cindy's direction, Nike Golf has steadily delivered profitable growth year after year since 2009."

 

If this statement is correct, they were profitable for at least 5 years. Now that "profitable growth" may have not met NIKE targets and goals which may have been unrealistic when looking at the industry as a whole.

Wonder if it included apparel?

Definitely.

Nike Golf encompassed Equipment, apparel and footwear.

 

Nike founder Phil Knight did say it was clubs and balls only that weren’t turning a profit

[new2g0lf]

yep Nike never made a profit in any year making equipment even when Tiger was at his prime. But in the end it was probably still a good move as it let them enter in the softgoods part of the business where they make real margins.

 

Unless you were on the inside of Nike Leadership, it's hard to know who to believe.

 

When Cindy Davis retired and left Nike Golf in 2014, I found the press released that NIKE issued.

 

In the release Jayme Martin, vice president and general manager, global categories, Nike Inc., says,

"We thank Cindy for her leadership throughout the years as she has led the development and growth of Nike's golf business worldwide. Under Cindy's direction, Nike Golf has steadily delivered profitable growth year after year since 2009."

 

If this statement is correct, they were profitable for at least 5 years. Now that "profitable growth" may have not met NIKE targets and goals which may have been unrealistic when looking at the industry as a whole.

 

Nike Golf did deliver profitable growth but that doesn't mean clubs and golf balls were profitable. It was determined that the entire Nike Golf organization would be even more profitable without the clubs and golf balls which is why they exited those markets.

[StarFleetGolfer]

Stumbled into a Nike thread by mistake

[BrianMcG]

Stumbled into a Nike thread by mistake

 

Another page or two it will be about Chamblee.

[CheckJV]

Excuse me, I’m looking for the PXG thread. This threads been swooshed.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

IIRC, TM is now suing PXG.

[North Butte]

A few years ago it would have morphed into a Tiger thread by this point.

 

Just imagine if Tiger started using PXG, it would break the Internet!

[new2g0lf]

A few years ago it would have morphed into a Tiger thread by this point.

 

Just imagine if Tiger started using PXG, it would break the Internet!

 

There would be a lot more Tiger haters too

[North Butte]

A few years ago it would have morphed into a Tiger thread by this point.

 

Just imagine if Tiger started using PXG, it would break the Internet!

 

There would be a lot more Tiger haters too

 

Is that even possible?

[cvhookem63]

An update on the TaylorMade/PXG suit(s)

When last we checked in, TaylorMade had just countersued PXG, claiming that several of the Bob Parsons owned company's products infringe on TaylorMade patents. As is commonplace in patent litigation cases, TaylorMade also asked the court to declare five of PXG's patents invalid.

On December 4th, and pretty much as expected, PXG fired back. In its Amended Complaint, PXG has expanded its original complaint, now alleging that TaylorMade has specifically infringed on 11 of its patents (in total PXG has been granted 128 patents). The complaints dive deep into the technical weeds. We've covered a bit of this before, but it's worth reiterating that what we're talking about is significantly more specific than what we've loosely termed goo-filled, hollow-body construction.

The infringement allegations deal with things like specific distribution of mass, the volume of polymer/elastomer relative to body mass, and almost all of that is tied to "a face thickness of less than or equal to 1.5 millimeters." Assuming PXG's patents are valid (not guaranteed), and prior art arguments aside, it's that last bit that would theoretically be the workaround for any arguments citing TaylorMade's ICW irons.

Technical details aside, the updated complaint doesn't mince words in accusing TaylorMade of wrongdoing.

AFTER A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY FOR INVESTIGATION AND DISCOVERY, THE EVIDENCE WILL LIKELY SHOW THAT TAYLORMADE NOT ONLY KNEW, OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, ABOUT THE ’336 PATENT, BUT ALSO THAT TAYLORMADE KNEW (OR WAS WILLFULLY BLIND TO THE FACT) THAT ITS CONDUCT INFRINGED THE ’336 PATENT, THAT IT LACKED ANY REASONABLE DEFENSE TO INFRINGEMENT OF THE ’336 PATENT, AND THAT TAYLORMADE’S EGREGIOUS CONDUCT WAS THE SORT OF WANTON CONDUCT THAT STANDS OUT FROM OTHER PATENT CASES AND RISES TO THE LEVEL OF WILLFUL INFRINGEMENT.

As we said last time around, this is all part and parcel of patent litigation. With each exchange, the number of complaints grows, and hostility bubbles to the surface. Case in point:

ON INFORMATION AND BELIEF, TAYLORMADE HAS BEEN AND IS NOW ACTIVELY INDUCING INFRINGEMENT OF AT LEAST CLAIM 15 OF THE ’203 PATENT IN VIOLATION OF 35 U.S.C. § 271(B) BY, WITH SPECIFIC INTENT OR WILLFUL BLINDNESS, ACTIVELY AIDING AND ABETTING OTHERS (INCLUDING RETAILERS AND OTHER TAYLORMADE DISTRIBUTORS, SEVERAL PROFESSIONAL GOLFERS, AND OTHERS) TO DIRECTLY INFRINGE THE ’203 PATENT, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION BY: USING, SELLING, OFFERING TO SELL, AND/OR IMPORTING THE P790 PRODUCTS IN THE UNITED STATES. TAYLORMADE’S INDUCEMENTS INCLUDE, WITHOUT LIMITATION, AND WITH SPECIFIC INTENT TO ENCOURAGE INFRINGEMENT, KNOWINGLY INDUCING RETAILERS AND OTHER DISTRIBUTORS TO SELL THE P790 PRODUCTS WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, AND KNOWINGLY INDUCING CUSTOMERS AND CELEBRITY ENDORSERS TO USE THE P790 PRODUCTS WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, WITH THE SPECIFIC INTENT TO CAUSE INFRINGEMENT OR WITH WILLFUL BLINDNESS TO THE RESULTING INFRINGEMENT OF AT LEAST CLAIM 15 OF THE ’203 PATENT.

For all patents in play, PXG is seeking relief including judgment that TaylorMade has infringed on each patent, along with profits and damages from "TaylorMade's past and present infringement". It's once again seeking injunctive relief to prohibit the continued sale of the P790 iron. Among other things, PXG is also seeking damages and interest, an award of attorneys' fees, repayment of costs incurred by PXG, and any other relief the Court deems proper.

Finally, PXG has asked for a jury trial on all issues that are triable by jury.

THE TAYLORMADE RESPONSE?

PXG has effectively tossed the ball back to TaylorMade's side of the court. For now, it appears that neither side is backing down, so it appears we're heading for a prolonged legal battle.

Whom, if anyone, infringed on what may ultimately be decided by a jury, but there are some factors worth considering:

• I'm not one who believes this is attention play by Bob Parsons. I'm reasonably confident that he and his R&D team believe TaylorMade's P790 infringes on several of its patents.
  
• I'm reasonably confident TaylorMade believes it hasn't infringed on anything. It probably also believes several of PXG's patents shouldn't have been granted to begin with. Worth mentioning, the experts we've spoken with have told me that's the case with a majority of the patents granted each year. I'm less convinced it actually believes PXG infringed on its patents.
  
• Bob Parsons' net worth has been estimated at more than 1 Billion (some estimates have it over 3 Billion). Risking upwards of $15 million in legal fees, whether it's to prove a point, show the industry he won't be bullied, or protect his golf company's intellectual property, is likely well worth what is, within his larger picture, a small investment.
  
• TaylorMade has operated in the red for the past several years (projections have it in the black for 2017) and was recently sold to private equity firm KPS Financial. PE firms aren't known for over-spending. Cost-cutting is assumed to be part of the 2018 operating plan, and with big money already committed to its PGA Tour staff, one has to wonder if there's a limit to what the new owners will spend to protect what is for now a single product.
  

[Ri_Redneck]

Looks like we, as WRXers, can expect jury summons in the near future because we're about the ONLY members of the general public who would have ANY CLUE what the heck is being discussed in this trial!!

 

BT

[jdcadkin]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

[jmck]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

[Dpavs]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

 

I rarely if ever agree with the author of the Golf Spy article. His personal bias shines through every article he writes and simply runs contrary to my own more times than not. All it just really proves at the end of the day is that on the internet you do not have to be particularly insightful to have an opinion and get it published somewhere.

[North Butte]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

 

I rarely if ever agree with the author of the Golf Spy article. His personal bias shines through every article he writes and simply runs contrary to my own more times than not. All it just really proves at the end of the day is that on the internet you do not have to be particularly insightful to have an opinion and get it published somewhere.

 

That's what I find astounding about the entire MSG phenomenon, much moreso than PXG. I can understand how the PXG guy gets so much attention. He's thrown a zillion dollars at creating himself as a brand and he's found a niche for the sort of macho braggadocio stuff that apparently no golf equipment company was catering to. I get it.

 

But Tony Covey is just some guy blabbing on and on about golf equipment in PRECISELY the same way as any number of participants in various golf forums. But with dogged persistence he has insisted over and over that he is a mover and shaker and opinion leader in the golf world and I'll be damned if a bunch of people haven't turned him into an opinion leader after all. It's just inexplicable.

 

How some guy's stream of consciousness rabble-rousing and "hot takes" get mistaken for being industry-insider insight is a true wonder of the social media world.

[new2g0lf]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

 

I rarely if ever agree with the author of the Golf Spy article. His personal bias shines through every article he writes and simply runs contrary to my own more times than not. All it just really proves at the end of the day is that on the internet you do not have to be particularly insightful to have an opinion and get it published somewhere.

 

That's what I find astounding about the entire MSG phenomenon, much moreso than PXG. I can understand how the PXG guy gets so much attention. He's thrown a zillion dollars at creating himself as a brand and he's found a niche for the sort of macho braggadocio stuff that apparently no golf equipment company was catering to. I get it.

 

But Tony Covey is just some guy blabbing on and on about golf equipment in PRECISELY the same way as any number of participants in various golf forums. But with dogged persistence he has insisted over and over that he is a mover and shaker and opinion leader in the golf world and I'll be damned if a bunch of people haven't turned him into an opinion leader after all. It's just inexplicable.

 

How some guy's stream of consciousness rabble-rousing and "hot takes" get mistaken for being industry-insider insight is a true wonder of the social media world.

 

In todays social media world all one has to do is take a position on a controversial subject and wait for those who agree with that position to flock to your blog or site. The internet is a divisive tool that depends on people having a difference of opinion and catering content to those sides. We see it here, if everyone agreed, most threads would be short and probably boring.

 

In terms of the lawsuit, the legal question will be if PXG patents were violated and did those PXG patents unknowingly infringe on previous TM patents. It will be a long drawn out court battle that will likely be lost on a jury trial because most jury members will not understand or appreciate the nuances of patent law and that's what this case will be about.

[Holy Moses]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

 

I rarely if ever agree with the author of the Golf Spy article. His personal bias shines through every article he writes and simply runs contrary to my own more times than not. All it just really proves at the end of the day is that on the internet you do not have to be particularly insightful to have an opinion and get it published somewhere.

 

That's what I find astounding about the entire MSG phenomenon, much moreso than PXG. I can understand how the PXG guy gets so much attention. He's thrown a zillion dollars at creating himself as a brand and he's found a niche for the sort of macho braggadocio stuff that apparently no golf equipment company was catering to. I get it.

 

But Tony Covey is just some guy blabbing on and on about golf equipment in PRECISELY the same way as any number of participants in various golf forums. But with dogged persistence he has insisted over and over that he is a mover and shaker and opinion leader in the golf world and I'll be damned if a bunch of people haven't turned him into an opinion leader after all. It's just inexplicable.

 

How some guy's stream of consciousness rabble-rousing and "hot takes" get mistaken for being industry-insider insight is a true wonder of the social media world.

 

MGS is better than the average WRX poster, but not by much. They have stated they have a vested interest in helping out the little guy and it has shown in their reviews. They trashed Callaway in their shaft article a few months back a little unfairly then wondered why Callaway is refusing to work with them now. Their take on the PXG-TM suit must be heavily weighed, as with all of their reviews. Not that they are always wrong, but they are not the consumer reports of golf because they want the little guys to win. There is a financial stake at play.

[jmck]

 

That's what I find astounding about the entire MSG phenomenon, much moreso than PXG. I can understand how the PXG guy gets so much attention. He's thrown a zillion dollars at creating himself as a brand and he's found a niche for the sort of macho braggadocio stuff that apparently no golf equipment company was catering to. I get it.

 

But Tony Covey is just some guy blabbing on and on about golf equipment in PRECISELY the same way as any number of participants in various golf forums. But with dogged persistence he has insisted over and over that he is a mover and shaker and opinion leader in the golf world and I'll be damned if a bunch of people haven't turned him into an opinion leader after all. It's just inexplicable.

 

How some guy's stream of consciousness rabble-rousing and "hot takes" get mistaken for being industry-insider insight is a true wonder of the social media world.

 

lol, well said.

 

[puttingmatt]

You f**k with the bull, you get the horn.

I think Bob will eventually get gorged by Taylormade.

 

 

[bladehunter]

All of this "not mincing words" and "tough talk" by PXG is simply legal boilerplate. It means nothing. And, the asserted claim of the '203 patent appears directed to the method of manufacture -- an activity that likely doesn't even take place in the U.S. and, thus, is not particularly "threatening."

 

Exactly right on both counts. That My Golf Spy take on it is just brutally, monumentally, extraordinarily dumb. Whoever wrote it is not to be trusted with shoelaces. Velcro only for that man.

 

I rarely if ever agree with the author of the Golf Spy article. His personal bias shines through every article he writes and simply runs contrary to my own more times than not. All it just really proves at the end of the day is that on the internet you do not have to be particularly insightful to have an opinion and get it published somewhere.

 

That's what I find astounding about the entire MSG phenomenon, much moreso than PXG. I can understand how the PXG guy gets so much attention. He's thrown a zillion dollars at creating himself as a brand and he's found a niche for the sort of macho braggadocio stuff that apparently no golf equipment company was catering to. I get it.

 

But Tony Covey is just some guy blabbing on and on about golf equipment in PRECISELY the same way as any number of participants in various golf forums. But with dogged persistence he has insisted over and over that he is a mover and shaker and opinion leader in the golf world and I'll be damned if a bunch of people haven't turned him into an opinion leader after all. It's just inexplicable.

 

How some guy's stream of consciousness rabble-rousing and "hot takes" get mistaken for being industry-insider insight is a true wonder of the social media world.

 

MGS is better than the average WRX poster, but not by much. They have stated they have a vested interest in helping out the little guy and it has shown in their reviews. They trashed Callaway in their shaft article a few months back a little unfairly then wondered why Callaway is refusing to work with them now. Their take on the PXG-TM suit must be heavily weighed, as with all of their reviews. Not that they are always wrong, but they are not the consumer reports of golf because they want the little guys to win. There is a financial stake at play.

 

 

Have to disagree there. Pretty big slap to the average wrx member to cal then below MgS. They are just above whale poop.

MgS is like popular mechanics or true car. It’s a hipsters idea of what “ in the know “ is. Reality is they are wannabes at best. Frauds at worst.

[bogeypro]

I don't get out, why the hate for MGS? I've always thought they did a great job testing. Sure beats most other site reviews... everyone gets a gold star or five stars.

 

Please use specific examples....

[Dpavs]

I don't get out, why the hate for MGS? I've always thought they did a great job testing. Sure beats most other site reviews... everyone gets a gold star or five stars.

 

Please use specific examples....

 

I think many of feel their testing and club reviews are fine. I think the lack of love really comes into play regarding their editorial articles.

[North Butte]

Well he “reviewed” a non-existent “new K-Sig” ball and denounced it for having terrible performance. All based on a cryptic entry, since amended, in a meaningless category on the USGA conforming ball-identification chart.

 

It’s obvious he decides what he is going to say long before he “tests” anything. He simply makes up stories designed to attract maximum attention to himself. And people drink it up as though he has some sort of credibility.

[rgk5]

You f**k with the bull, you get the horn.

I think Bob will eventually get gorged by Taylormade.

 

That will be a big meal in that Parsons tips the Toledos at probably 240 lbs. :swoon:

[dmeeksDC]

Well he “reviewed” a non-existent “new K-Sig” ball and denounced it for having terrible performance. All based on a cryptic entry, since amended, in a meaningless category on the USGA conforming ball-identification chart.

 

It’s obvious he decides what he is going to say long before he “tests” anything. He simply makes up stories designed to attract maximum attention to himself. And people drink it up as though he has some sort of credibility.

 

I completely agree that the work on that site is not great. I find the main writer annoying. Perpetually sarcastic and projects like someone trying way too hard to sound cool. The articles, for the most part, are long-winded and repetitive. The long explanations of how they test don't need to be in every post. Their articles should be cut in half and edited by someone with the skills.

 

I found that site didn't grow on me, while golfwrx, while it may have its posers, is far more a community of real golfers and that is what brings me back.

[Dienekes41]

This will be an interesting case. The fact TM filled irons with foam before will not matter. A design patent is granted for 14 years from date granted. What will matter is the process on how the P790 irons were made not the foam filled cavity. If this was the case every donut company will be sued for creme filled donuts. The clubs do not look even close. I am a fan of pxg but TM brought to market some competition for 60% less and Bob has the money so he tried so me scare tactics. My opinion bad move by PXG, will not win this case, stand to lose millions