The secret to hitting the sweetspot with any club

[Macogardy]

I mentioned in the thread about the guy that was struggling hitting it on the heel that there was a secret of the pros and a reason why they consistently hit the ball on the sweetspot. The reason isn't because they have a perfect setup.

 

Hope you enjoy the video

 

 

[Tero Partanen]

So, what's the secret again? In the "how to do it" part?

[royourboat]

So the shaft orbits the sweetspot when you spin it on its axis. And your advice is to forget the shaft (or heel maybe) and swing the sweetspot at the ball? I assume everyone hitting shanks aren't trying to swing the shaft at the ball, so I fail to see your point.

[Macogardy]

When you swing the club you feel the center of gravity of the club or the sweetspot. You need to swing the club like if it was a dowel or a broom handle, even though the sweetspot is offset from the shaft you need to imagine as if the shaft is center shafted running right through the sweetspot because that's actually the feel you will have and if done correctly you won't disturb the sweetspot as it comes towards the ball.

 

look at the two shots I hit, with two totally opposite clubs a 70s muscleback tiny headed blade 2 iron that has the sweetspot 1" off the hosel and the big bertha super game improvement cavity back 1 iron that has the sweetspot 1.75" off the hosel huge difference but I hit them both right on their sweetspots( the hogan was a groove thin and the callaway I hit a bad range ball thus my reaction).

 

The only reason I can hit the sweetspot on both clubs like that is because I swing the sweetspot. Not because my setup is just the right distance from the ball etc..

 

Fyi C dimension is the distance from the hosel centerline to the cog or sweetspot

 

[royourboat]

Ok, but I think you're taking an obscurity and applying some language to it to make it seem important. Everyone has to coordinate the difficult task of swinging the sweetspot onto the ball and getting the path and face vectors nearest to their ideals (amongst whatever else is important). I'm not sure how coming up with "swing sweetspot at the ball" helps.

 

I feel like if player X had an open clubface, maybe that gives them an idea to rotate the shaft earlier, perhaps, but I'm not seeing it helpful to the player with pretty much any other ailment.

[sb944]

Mac, I use the younger brother to that, the Apex II (1979), got a set 2-Eq off ebay for $80, and have absolutely no need to play anything else right now, smoking these things, so much accuracy in distance.

 

I notice Henrik Stensen flips the head upside down for a practice swing, the commentators said to feel the head weight, but is it really to feel the distance of the sweet spot from the shaft. I mean do that with a Hogan 2i, and it's near identical, do it with a Taylormade driver and it's night and day difference. When you flip it upside down, it feels like your hands are being pushed up in the air.

[Yff Theos]

A good vid. The clubhead closes by itself since it turns around the sweetspot.. #3 Pressure Point (right hand's index finger onto the grip) is important to restrain the shaft from "backing up".

[Matt J]

Seems the take home from the beginning of your explanation is not to manipulate face angle. I do agree the a lot of people that try and manipulate the face, open to shut through impact, lay it off and get stuck, but I can't gather the difference between the two clubs. MOI is different, club head size is different, but it seems you're simply advocating to use the same swing with both and that seems pretty self-explanatory. I don't think anyone intentionally changes their move for a different style of clubhead, but I could be wrong.

[Range Rodent]

I mentioned in the thread about the guy that was struggling hitting it on the heel that there was a secret of the pros and a reason why they consistently hit the ball on the sweetspot. The reason isn't because they have a perfect setup.

 

Hope you enjoy the video

 

 

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[/media]

 

Newsflash - there ain't no secret unless you're whispering about years of beating balls with raw talent.

[Macogardy]

Ok, but I think you're taking an obscurity and applying some language to it to make it seem important. Everyone has to coordinate the difficult task of swinging the sweetspot onto the ball and getting the path and face vectors nearest to their ideals (amongst whatever else is important). I'm not sure how coming up with "swing sweetspot at the ball" helps.

 

I feel like if player X had an open clubface, maybe that gives them an idea to rotate the shaft earlier, perhaps, but I'm not seeing it helpful to the player with pretty much any other ailment.

 

You mentioned if player x had an open clubface maybe that gives them an idea to rotate the shaft earlier, just to be clear my video doesn't really have to do with the clubface rotation. You still have to square the clubface with your turning pivot and hand eye coordination based on how much your face was open or closed to your pivot in the backswing.

 

My video tip is about hitting the COG or sweetspot of the club. Every club has a different sweetspot. Your driver has a sweetspot probably 2 inches from the shaft centerline, your irons may only be 1" your wedges maybe 1-1/2" etc., The whole point is that although a good setup is important to get you in the range that you can stay balanced and make the appropriate swing compensations to hit the ball. Your goal is to feel and swing the sweetspot of the club imagine just swinging a stick to hit the ball because that's what you feel when you start swinging you feel the COG of the clubhead.

 

That is why although I had two wildly different irons with shaft that are two soft for me, worn grips and a 1 and a 2 iron I still without taking anytime can hit them very close to there actual measured COG.

 

It's not because I'm talented I'm very average. It's because I understand that the shaft moves around the COG so I am just accelerating the COG or sweetspot at the ball.

 

Callaway actual measured cog is 1.75" from centerline of hosel

Hogan is 1.06" measured and as you can see below I got pretty close.

Not great as I hit the hogan a groove thin and the callaway a little high on the face but I blame that on the slick grips and weak shafts.

The point is my feel brought the cog to the ball

[Range Rodent]

If the sweet spot was at the toe end of the clubhead, your body will still try and hit the ball with the center of the club face.

[Macogardy]

I would disagree with that, that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

The actual center of the clubhead is an illusion

It's the COG that matters.

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's a very small club , just as small or smaller then a miura baby blade

The callaway has a sweetspot 1.75" so a full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I feel the cog as I swing and forget about the shaft

[Over it]

No it wouldn't that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's s very small club today just as small or smaller then s miura baby blade

The callaway has s sweetspot 1.75" so s full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and do still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I can feel it.

 

 

Maybe you could hit the sweet spot standing 2 ft farther away but you sure couldn't use the same set up and body movements as your regular swing. So there needs to be adjustments made in the actual mechanical movements to produce that, or do you think just feeling where the sweet spot is in space while swinging will fix a hacker who is swaying off the ball and throwing it away and flipping?

[Golfrnut]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

[ajax5184]

Sometimes when I get into a bout of chipping shanks, the only thing that I can do to get out of the funk is line up the hosel with the ball and actually swing like I am trying to hit the hosel. It always works, but I have never known why. Is this along the same lines of what you are talking about feeling?

[Over it]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

 

 

How do the good ball strikers do it then?

[Yff Theos]

If the sweet spot was at the toe end of the clubhead, your body will still try and hit the ball with the center of the club face.

 

Your eyes perhaps, your body no.

[Golfrnut]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

 

 

How do the good ball strikers do it then?

 

 

Your brain knows how to get the club back to the ball, the same way you hit a ball with a baseball bat, kick a ball with your foot, etc. The good players have the right mechanics to not let themselves get in their own way.

[Over it]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

 

 

How do the good ball strikers do it then?

 

 

Your brain knows how to get the club back to the ball, the same way you hit a ball with a baseball bat, kick a ball with your foot, etc. The good players have the right mechanics to not let themselves get in their own way.

 

 

So a good player could hit it on the face where he wanted...i.e. on the toe on purpose or the heel or the sweet spot. saw a good player do just that as he was showing me the results of the different strikes on the different areas of the clubface.

[Range Rodent]

I would disagree with that, that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

The actual center of the clubhead is an illusion

It's the COG that matters.

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's a very small club , just as small or smaller then a miura baby blade

The callaway has a sweetspot 1.75" so a full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I feel the cog as I swing and forget about the shaft

 

Disagree all you want but til you get an implement where the sweet spot is not in the near middle of the clubface and see if you still hit the sweetspot, the test means nothing.

[Macogardy]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

 

You prove my point

 

I'm not long I have about a 105 swing speed which is decent for a out of shape hunchbacked 40 year old. I normally play x100 because I like the feel. These two clubs have a lot of toe droop especially the callaway because of its sweetspot being so far from the shaft and the fact it's a regular flex graphite shaft.

 

I couldn't hit the center of the club with one swing one take with these two totally different clubs with all the variables involved based on making compensations in my setup or how I align it or compensating for toe droop.

 

THE ONLY REASON I CAN DO IT IS BECAUSE I SWING THE SWEETSPOT I IMAGINE THE CLUB IS A CENTER SHAFTED CLUB AND MY SHAFT IS DIRECTLY RUNNING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE CLUB.

 

Because that's what I feel the tug of the cog when I start down.

[Golfrnut]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

 

 

How do the good ball strikers do it then?

 

 

Your brain knows how to get the club back to the ball, the same way you hit a ball with a baseball bat, kick a ball with your foot, etc. The good players have the right mechanics to not let themselves get in their own way.

 

 

So a good player could hit it on the face where he wanted...i.e. on the toe on purpose or the heel or the sweet spot. saw a good player do just that as he was showing me the results of the different strikes on the different areas of the clubface.

 

 

I would use the term "skilled". And yes, there are people than can consistently do that, on purpose.

[Macogardy]

Sometimes when I get into a bout of chipping shanks, the only thing that I can do to get out of the funk is line up the hosel with the ball and actually swing like I am trying to hit the hosel. It always works, but I have never known why. Is this along the same lines of what you are talking about feeling?

 

Yes because when you try to do this you probably feel you are swinging the hosel but you are actual feeling the COG of the club,

you can't actually feel the hosel because it is out of plane with the cog.

 

The problem most people have is they swing the clubhead, imo you need to feel like it's just a tiny weight on the end of a shaft. The more you have relaxed arms and swing from your pivot the more you will be able to feel the pull of the cog and be able to bring it to the center of the ball

[Golfrnut]

And all this means is pretty much nothing. We have toe drop during the golf swing. The CG does not stay in the same position relative to the shaft plane anyway, it moves dynamically throughout the swing. Anyone that says they can feel or keep up with these changes is off their rocker. The body/brain is not fast enough to compensate for the changes, the body is already committed long before a lot of this stuff even happens.

You prove my point I'm not long I have about a 105 swing speed which is decent for a out of shape hunchbacked 40 year old. I normally play x100 because I like the feel. These two clubs have a lot of toe droop especially the callaway because of its sweetspot being so far from the shaft and the fact it's a regular flex graphite shaft. I couldn't hit the center of the club with one swing one take with these two totally different clubs with all the variables involved based on making compensations in my setup or how I align it or compensating for toe droop. THE ONLY READON I CAN DO IT IS BECAUSE I SWING THE SWEETSPOT I IMAGINE THE CLUB IS A CENTER SHAFTED CLUB AND MY SHAFT IS DIRECTLY RUNNING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE CLUB. Because that's what I feel the tug of the cog when I start down.

 

 

Again, if you think you are able to compensate once you are already in the downswing, you are fooling yourself. Not to mention the COG position is completely different due to the transition force and club orientation from where it is at the top vs at impact.

 

I would be willing to bet that those two shafts in each of those clubs is completely different am I right? The shaft weight isn't the same, the bend profile isn't the same, etc. And you are trying to base this on COG location? Your test is awful. When you test, you have controls so you can rule things out. You have none.

 

I'm not proving anything for you.

[Macogardy]

I would disagree with that, that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

The actual center of the clubhead is an illusion

It's the COG that matters.

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's a very small club , just as small or smaller then a miura baby blade

The callaway has a sweetspot 1.75" so a full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I feel the cog as I swing and forget about the shaft

 

Disagree all you want but til you get an implement where the sweet spot is not in the near middle of the clubface and see if you still hit the sweetspot, the test means nothing.

 

Most blades have the sweetspot closer to the heel

Very few clubs actually have the COG in the center of the face.

 

The pros are masters of hitting the sweetspot because of there coordination and good swinging feel of bringing that COG on the club to the ball. That's how trick shot guys can hit a ball in the air they see it there brain calculates in milliseconds where the ball will be in space and they swing the COG at it.

[Over it]

Sometimes when I get into a bout of chipping shanks, the only thing that I can do to get out of the funk is line up the hosel with the ball and actually swing like I am trying to hit the hosel. It always works, but I have never known why. Is this along the same lines of what you are talking about feeling?

 

Yes because when you try to do this you probably feel you are swinging the hosel but you are actual feeling the COG of the club,

you can't actually feel the hosel because it is out of plane with the cog.

 

The problem most people have is they swing the clubhead, imo you need to feel like it's just a tiny weight on the end of a shaft. The more you have relaxed arms and swing from your pivot the more you will be able to feel the pull of the cog and be able to bring it to the center of the ball

 

 

If that were true then why would he shank it in the first place?

[Ghost of Snead]

I would disagree with that, that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

The actual center of the clubhead is an illusion

It's the COG that matters.

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's a very small club , just as small or smaller then a miura baby blade

The callaway has a sweetspot 1.75" so a full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I feel the cog as I swing and forget about the shaft

 

Disagree all you want but til you get an implement where the sweet spot is not in the near middle of the clubface and see if you still hit the sweetspot, the test means nothing.

 

Most blades have the sweetspot closer to the heel

Very few clubs actually have the COG in the center of the face.

 

The pros are masters of hitting the sweetspot because of there coordination and good swinging feel of bringing that COG on the club to the ball. That's how trick shot guys can hit a ball in the air they see it there brain calculates in milliseconds where the ball will be in space and they swing the COG at it.

 

That's called great hand-eye coordination. The more they do it, the better they get at it. Has nothing to do "swinging the COG".

[Jasonic]

Sometimes when I get into a bout of chipping shanks, the only thing that I can do to get out of the funk is line up the hosel with the ball and actually swing like I am trying to hit the hosel. It always works, but I have never known why. Is this along the same lines of what you are talking about feeling?

 

Yes because when you try to do this you probably feel you are swinging the hosel but you are actual feeling the COG of the club,

you can't actually feel the hosel because it is out of plane with the cog.

 

The problem most people have is they swing the clubhead, imo you need to feel like it's just a tiny weight on the end of a shaft. The more you have relaxed arms and swing from your pivot the more you will be able to feel the pull of the cog and be able to bring it to the center of the ball

 

 

If that were true then why would he shank it in the first place?

 

Bad mechanics, bad mental picture, tightness, many many things.

 

As for hitting all over the face on purpose look up the teachings of adam young. His book the practice manual claims that learning the skills of doing that, not mechanics, speed up learning incredibly. It's a great theory and works.

[Over it]

I would disagree with that, that's my whole point if the Cog of the club was a 1/2" from the edge of the face my mark would have been right there.

 

The actual center of the clubhead is an illusion

It's the COG that matters.

I tried to make it as evident as possible by finding two clubs with sweet spots far apart 1" from hosel on the hogan is pretty close it's a very small club , just as small or smaller then a miura baby blade

The callaway has a sweetspot 1.75" so a full 3/4" farther out

Because I feel and focus on swinging the COG my hands brought the cog pretty much right on the ball with a 1 iron and a 2 iron.

 

I can back up 2 ft away farther from the ball way outstretched and still hit it on the sweetspot. It's because I feel the cog as I swing and forget about the shaft

 

Disagree all you want but til you get an implement where the sweet spot is not in the near middle of the clubface and see if you still hit the sweetspot, the test means nothing.

 

Most blades have the sweetspot closer to the heel

Very few clubs actually have the COG in the center of the face.

 

The pros are masters of hitting the sweetspot because of there coordination and good swinging feel of bringing that COG on the club to the ball. That's how trick shot guys can hit a ball in the air they see it there brain calculates in milliseconds where the ball will be in space and they swing the COG at it.

 

 

So their brain and eyes do it, they are really good at something they have practiced at and now have achieved subconscious mastery of a skill.

If feeling a tiny cog while swinging an object around was so easy we all could do it.

 

It takes a lot of practice , talent and skill development before you can master something. Some never can.

[Over it]

Sometimes when I get into a bout of chipping shanks, the only thing that I can do to get out of the funk is line up the hosel with the ball and actually swing like I am trying to hit the hosel. It always works, but I have never known why. Is this along the same lines of what you are talking about feeling?

 

Yes because when you try to do this you probably feel you are swinging the hosel but you are actual feeling the COG of the club,

you can't actually feel the hosel because it is out of plane with the cog.

 

The problem most people have is they swing the clubhead, imo you need to feel like it's just a tiny weight on the end of a shaft. The more you have relaxed arms and swing from your pivot the more you will be able to feel the pull of the cog and be able to bring it to the center of the ball

 

 

If that were true then why would he shank it in the first place?

 

Bad mechanics, bad mental picture, tightness, many many things.

 

As for hitting all over the face on purpose look up the teachings of adam young. His book the practice manual claims that learning the skills of doing that, not mechanics, speed up learning incredibly. It's a great theory and works.

 

Thanks Jasonic I knew the answer but wanted Mac to answer that question.