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Does the quality of your clubs eclipse the quality of your swing/game?


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Basically this started as a joke and some rib poking with a good buddy. Well it got me thinking about all the high dollar and high "quality" clubs (and i use the word quality loosely) I see in some players bags that should not be in their bag to some extent. A player is lucky to break 90 and has all the newest and high tech (not game improvement by any means when it comes to high tech), has spent roughly 2 to 3K on his clubs but is not getting his money worth because his swing and game does not justify having these clubs in his bag.

There is a ton of variables that can be accounted for, I get that. Maybe he has the money and can afford it and his score is really insignificant to him. Maybe they just wants to show off. Maybe some were a gift or he found a great deal. I guess my thought is why do so many play clubs that do not fit their game? Whether it be shaft flex, length, loft and lie, brand loyal etc. I know it is and can be a very open ended discussion but why is there so much of it that happens. Advertising from the big boys?

I use myself as an example. I have around $700 invested in my entire bag. The clubs fit me, shafts, loft and lie, length, style and brands which is a somewhat mixed bag. It is pretty hard for me to shoot 85, usually sub 78 when I am actually putting effort into my round and the putter is working. That being said I don not believe the quality of my clubs eclipse my swing/game. I would consider them to be a 1 for 1 trade off.

 

Please don't be too harsh with the comments. Not trying to ridicule or put anyone down.

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Yes. It is absurd that I carry 2 adjustable fairways set at 13.5* and 16* rather than one normal 15* fairway. I shoot mid 80s which indicates that I'm not a good enough ball striker to really be that picky, but it makes me happy, lol.

 

Mine are older models that were bought used for cheap, so I'm not as bad as I could be.

"Of all the hazards, fear is the worst" - Sam Snead
WITB: Cobra Fly-Z 9.5 ~ Ping Anser 4w ~ Ping G30 3h ~ Cobra King Forged One 4-P ~ Cobra King 50-V, 56-WL, 60-V ~ Cleveland HB 11

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My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs. It is not by choice but because of necessity. 10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008. Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford. Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls. In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft (Stiff flex)
Titleist 990 (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold in S300
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts (Regular Flex)
2011 Adams Tom Watson signature wedges in 52 and 56 degrees with stock steel shafts (Player's Grind)
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs. It is not by choice but because of necessity. 10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008. Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford. Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls. In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

 

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

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I never understand this debate. I think it usually stems from some sort of jealousy or just a need to brag about doing more with less. When I was fishing all the time, I never looked at a guy throwing $350 Sustain reels and thought, man what is he doing. He doesn't catch fish but wasted all that money on nice gear. Golf is a very cheap hobby, and dropping $2k on the "tools" to play the game is nothing. That's great that you play well with a $700 bag. Play your game and don't worry about others and what they have.

 

Also, I think you are mixing two different discussions. Playing clubs that don't fit your ability, and playing the nicest new gear even though you don't shoot very well. Nothing wrong with either IMO, but the former is a little tougher to understand than the latter.

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My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs. It is not by choice but because of necessity. 10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008. Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford. Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls. In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

 

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

 

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them. Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180. Know what your true swing speed and your actual iron distances and play off tees suitable to that . You many not like what your local trackman will say but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft (Stiff flex)
Titleist 990 (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold in S300
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts (Regular Flex)
2011 Adams Tom Watson signature wedges in 52 and 56 degrees with stock steel shafts (Player's Grind)
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs. It is not by choice but because of necessity. 10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008. Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford. Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls. In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

 

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

 

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them. Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180. Know what your true swing speed and are actual iron distances are and play off tees suitable to that . You many not like what your local trackman will say about your swing speed but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

 

But what if its not those people's objectives to shoot lower scores? Maybe it is just a 4 hour reprieve that they get each week/month. I know plenty of guys that just like nice stuff, like to talk BS with their friends, and could care less about the outcome. Now I understand that if the people are chattering in a money game about how they normally carry it 300 and can't break 225 but I wouldn't assume that is a majority of folks.

WITB:
*Ping G410 LST Tensei Pro Orange 60
*Taylormade M3 15* Tensei Blue
*Ping i25 Hybrid 18*
*Titleist T100-S C-taper 120s
*Vokey SM8 Jet Black Limited 56/60
*Toulon Atlanta Stroke Lab slant
*Vice Pro Plus
*Nike camo cart bag.
 

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My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs. It is not by choice but because of necessity. 10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008. Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford. Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls. In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

 

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

 

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them. Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180. Know what your true swing speed and are actual iron distances are and play off tees suitable to that . You many not like what your local trackman will say about your swing speed but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

 

But what if its not those people's objectives to shoot lower scores? Maybe it is just a 4 hour reprieve that they get each week/month. I know plenty of guys that just like nice stuff, like to talk BS with their friends, and could care less about the outcome. Now I understand that if the people are chattering in a money game about how they normally carry it 300 and can't break 225 but I wouldn't assume that is a majority of folks.

 

There is nothing wrong with hacking it around with your buddies shooting 200 at Pebble Beach with clubs fresh from the tour van. If the objective is having fun then there's nothing wrong with that. It's their money. But if one really wants to improve his/her game...

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft (Stiff flex)
Titleist 990 (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold in S300
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts (Regular Flex)
2011 Adams Tom Watson signature wedges in 52 and 56 degrees with stock steel shafts (Player's Grind)
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

 

Could’ve ended the thread right here. No one is topping this response. Simple and brilliant. I tip my hat to you sir!

You didn't plan to fail,
you failed to plan!

M3 460/9.5*/HZRDUS 75 6.0
'17 M2 Tour/16.5*/'ilima 70s
'17 M1 /19*/'ilima 70s
'10 MP Fli Hi 3-4/Recoil Hybrid Proto 100 f4
MP4 5-PW/Recoil Proto 110 f4
Taylormade Milled Grind 52*/KBS Tour 120 s
Taylormade Hi-Toe 58*/ KBS Tour 120 s
Cameron Oil Can Newport 2
Srixon XV

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I was thinking for a couple years that my game was a lot better than my clubs....Most of the mishits,clunks and such were due

to the cheap clubs...then i played with an old gentleman....and he used my irons a couple times. His results with them did not

look anything like mine.I had never hit a ball that high with a 5 iron,nor flew a 7 iron like that.....totally convinced me that it

does not matter which clubs you have. If you are an 80's player or scratch or whatever,thats what you are.The enjoyment is what we play

the game for.

Certified Orginal Member#2
Outlaw Golf Association
To Heck with the USGA

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I agree with some above: I think that most folks don't know how the hell to choose clubs that suit their game to begin with. You have to have SOME idea before you go for a fitting. How many go for a fitting? How many check the lofts and lies of used clubs? How many find and install the proper grips? How many shoot 88 and wonder if the next set of new clubs will produce the magic they need...and if not, is it the clubs, the shafts, or you?

 

Some have money to buy what they want, some do not. But all should take care that their equipment suits their game. And if you can't, well, I suggest you get a set of Ping Eye2s or Eye2+. For some reason, a majority of golfers of all abilities can hit those babies very well.

 

All that said, most of us are mid-handicappers or worse--meaning, more than single-digit. I've beat single-digit handicappers with my lame game because I'm a good competitor, not because I'm a better golfer with advanced equipment. Strategy, smart leaves for putts, and a little trash talk goes a long way. Plus, I have great confidence in the old clubs I'm playing. Most never even heard of the clubs I'm playing and try to make fun or ask why on earth I don't have the newest AP edition. Well, (a) can't afford (b) don't trust they are any better than my 2001 Hogans.

 

You've heard it a million times: Golf is a solo game. You against the course and see how it ends up.

 

Maybe some are playing for another reason other than to shoot your best and have fun. If you're trying to impress your buds with your expensive new clubs, well, bromance has its place I suppose, but it won't help you carve that 7 tight to win the hole.

 

Sorry, I am not one of those guys who is tolerant of folks who "just want to have fun" in a sport that takes skill to accomplish. If you can afford the very best, great, but put those tools to work and try to beat me and enjoy doing so, if you can. Otherwise, play putt-putt with the kids.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

WIMB
TaylorMade Burner Driver 10.5*, 3-wood 15* REAX reg graphite
Adams Idea A12 #4 Hybrid 21* VTS Proforce reg graphite
Mizuno MX-23 irons, 4-P, Dynalite Gold regular steel
Putter: 2001 Odyssey 2-Ball, 36" --  Ball: Snell MTB Black

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I have a set of 2016 M2 irons and hybrids that I "fell" into for ~25% of retail brand new. I also have full sets of clubs from just about every decade from the 50's to present.

 

When people ask me how I like my M2's, my response is always: They're better than I am.

 

However, as a slow-swinging, short-hitting 15, I can say the same for just about any set of clubs you might find me playing.

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A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper. Does this imply some sort of superiority? Obviously not. This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine. He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can. Simple value proposition.

 

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's. To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point. Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me? Guess the answer would have to be yes! I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"

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A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper. Does this imply some sort of superiority? Obviously not. This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine. He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can. Simple value proposition.

 

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's. To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point. Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me? Guess the answer would have to be yes! I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

 

I also think that deciding upon a set and sticking with them is key. You really can't practice with a different set each time you hit the range and still expect to improve. Sticking with a set (or putter) you love really does make a longterm difference.

 

Clubs don't swing themselves, so they are only as good as the hands they are in. So they can't be better than you are. Their *potential* in a more skilled player's hands might hold more possibilities, but it is irrelevant to you.

 

I like high-end running shoes, but I'll never break any records. But I am getting out of these shoes all the support and everything I am able. If I'd purchased junky shoes, they might provide less and actually hurt me.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

WIMB
TaylorMade Burner Driver 10.5*, 3-wood 15* REAX reg graphite
Adams Idea A12 #4 Hybrid 21* VTS Proforce reg graphite
Mizuno MX-23 irons, 4-P, Dynalite Gold regular steel
Putter: 2001 Odyssey 2-Ball, 36" --  Ball: Snell MTB Black

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A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper. Does this imply some sort of superiority? Obviously not. This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine. He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can. Simple value proposition.

 

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's. To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point. Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me? Guess the answer would have to be yes! I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

 

I also think that deciding upon a set and sticking with them is key. You really can't practice with a different set each time you hit the range and still expect to improve. Sticking with a set (or putter) you love really does make a longterm difference.

 

Clubs don't swing themselves, so they are only as good as the hands they are in. So they can't be better than you are. Their *potential* in a more skilled player's hands might hold more possibilities, but it is irrelevant to you.

 

I like high-end running shoes, but I'll never break any records. But I am getting out of these shoes all the support and everything I am able. If I'd purchased junky shoes, they might provide less and actually hurt me.

 

I've ho'ed my way through a lot of different iron sets because I enjoy that, and I can say unequivocally that there are at least a dozen different sets I've played that all functioned equally and didn't affect my ability to score. I've also got several putters that I rotate and using different putters doesn't affect my score either.

 

Running shoes are completely different because they are in effect, safety devices. Apples to oranges.

Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"

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The production quality and variance in a box set ( the driver might be 6.5 degrees with a lady-flex shaft, no 3 or 4 irons, a 5 iron that's 6 degrees flat and with an x-stiff shaft but the 7 iron being spot on to my specs) might be more on par with my swing and game as a high single digit player but I doubt I'd get better results with such a set than I do with my current clubs.

Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
D & 3W: ST 180 / 21º, MP-H5 / 4-PW: MP-4 / 50º: MP-T5 / 55º: FG Tour PMP  / 60º: Hi-Toe / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4

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Nope. I shoot mid 80s and my ping G20 irons, G25 fairway and hybrid, and R9 Supertri driver are wonderful.

 

Regarding this topic in general. Each person is entitled to spend their $$ as they see fit.

 

If you want to talk about ridiculous cost for your hobby, try hockey goalie gear. It's close to $3k just for leg pads and gloves, that are completely shot/useless after only 2-3 years.

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Same old argument, some guys like golf clubs and tinkering (myself included)

 

Some guys like watches, guitars, cars, guns, bicycles, travel, cigars, wine etc. Some guys can afford to like all these things .. and others I missed

 

Not the end of the world


Ping G400 Max Fuji Ventus Red 6x

Ping G400 5w 16.5* Blueboard 73x 

Cally Apex '16 3h 20* KK Silver 80x

Cally Apex '16 4h 23* KK Silver 80x

Srixon ZX7 5i  AD DI di 95x 

Srixon ZX7 6 - PW Nippon Modus 3 Tour 120s
Vokey SM2 50*, SM2 TVD M 56* & 60*, SM2 64.07

Scotty GoLo 7
 

 

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