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I have had similar bad experiences at Colorado National. One time I had a tee time around noon and when we showed up we found out there was a frost delay that morning and every tee time was pushed back 1.5 hours or so. We had plans after the round and couldn't finish 18, the staff didn't seem to care. It bothered me that we booked online and they therefore had my email and couldn't find a way to send out a notification? Especially since I was getting their marketing emails nearly daily.

 

I do have a general question about slow play and course marshalls...has anyone ever seen them actually do anything about slow play? I get frustrated because it seems like they are quick to tell me I am behind pace, even when I have to wait on nearly every hole, but I am not sure I have actually seen them take action against a slow group. I have seen courses with marshalls crawling all over the place and the rounds are still slow as can be. Doesn't seem like the marshalls ever accomplish anything. Are there courses that will enforce pace of play and make slow groups skip a hole?

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I have had similar bad experiences at Colorado National. One time I had a tee time around noon and when we showed up we found out there was a frost delay that morning and every tee time was pushed back 1.5 hours or so. We had plans after the round and couldn't finish 18, the staff didn't seem to care. It bothered me that we booked online and they therefore had my email and couldn't find a way to send out a notification? Especially since I was getting their marketing emails nearly daily.

 

I do have a general question about slow play and course marshalls...has anyone ever seen them actually do anything about slow play? I get frustrated because it seems like they are quick to tell me I am behind pace, even when I have to wait on nearly every hole, but I am not sure I have actually seen them take action against a slow group. I have seen courses with marshalls crawling all over the place and the rounds are still slow as can be. Doesn't seem like the marshalls ever accomplish anything. Are there courses that will enforce pace of play and make slow groups skip a hole?

 

I don't think so. The only places I know that really maintain pace are private clubs where members are held responsible or small town public golf courses where everyone knows everyone else. Marshalls are legit just running around to collect some pay and get the free golf privileges.

 

I really think some course would do well by charging for slow groups not getting done in time and then getting to guarantee to their customers how fast they will play. IE: if you book a tee time between 7-10AM you are required to play in 3:30 or get charged and if you book 10-2 you are required to play in 4 hours or get charged. I think it would be a great way to get younger golfers out and to get play from people who need to be places at certain times.

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Come to think of it...one time I was playing CO National, and it just started down pouring when I made the turn to the Back 9. Like, super strong winds and just a crazy amount of rain. Not playable at all. I went into the pro shop to ask about a 9 hole rain check, and they just kinda shrug/laughed and said "Oh, we don't give rain checks."

 

I just like the layout too much to stop going. I also always seem to score pretty good out there.

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Come to think of it...one time I was playing CO National, and it just started down pouring when I made the turn to the Back 9. Like, super strong winds and just a crazy amount of rain. Not playable at all. I went into the pro shop to ask about a 9 hole rain check, and they just kinda shrug/laughed and said "Oh, we don't give rain checks."

 

I just like the layout too much to stop going. I also always seem to score pretty good out there.

 

Had a similar experience last month & I won’t be going back either...they offered me $10

LMAO.

 

Haven’t had the pace issues everyone else has, and I like the layout, so it’s unfortunate, but fack those guys.

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Joel! Colorado National needs you!

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Hey Queso, do you know if TPC has the driving range open yet?

 

Not sure...I haven’t played out there since the first week of August. It wasn’t open then, but I’m assuming it is now if they’re taking public tee times. I don’t think there’s a putting green open yet though.

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Hey Queso, do you know if TPC has the driving range open yet?

 

Not sure...I haven’t played out there since the first week of August. It wasn’t open then, but I’m assuming it is now if they’re taking public tee times. I don’t think there’s a putting green open yet though.

 

Thanks. At least won’t have to stop some where along the way. Hate to get out of the car after three hours and not being able to hit some balls.


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Joel! Colorado National needs you!

 

Haha, I'm starting to realize why I have only played there in once in the last few years. It's not worth the drive to deal with that crap. As for those of you who love the layout, what is so great about it? Other than it being able to play super long I don't think it's all that special other than a few holes. But I guess that is the beauty of course design....different strokes for different folks.

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Hey Queso, do you know if TPC has the driving range open yet?

 

Not sure...I haven’t played out there since the first week of August. It wasn’t open then, but I’m assuming it is now if they’re taking public tee times. I don’t think there’s a putting green open yet though.

 

Thanks. At least won’t have to stop some where along the way. Hate to get out of the car after three hours and not being able to hit some balls.

 

I feel ya there. It sucks to not be warmed up until the back nine, especially when you’re shelling out $170!

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Joel! Colorado National needs you!

 

Haha, I'm starting to realize why I have only played there in once in the last few years. It's not worth the drive to deal with that crap. As for those of you who love the layout, what is so great about it? Other than it being able to play super long I don't think it's all that special other than a few holes. But I guess that is the beauty of course design....different strokes for different folks.

 

The front is pretty lackluster, but I like the back quite a bit...12-18 are all pretty good holes imo. My biggest complaint with the design is the fact that 2/4 of the par 5s force you to lay up.

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Joel! Colorado National needs you!

 

Haha, I'm starting to realize why I have only played there in once in the last few years. It's not worth the drive to deal with that crap. As for those of you who love the layout, what is so great about it? Other than it being able to play super long I don't think it's all that special other than a few holes. But I guess that is the beauty of course design....different strokes for different folks.

 

I really like elevation change from tee to fairway or fairway to green. I also like courses where I don't have to pull driver a lot. Most of the Par 4's require layups/less than driver off the tee, and a couple of par 4's you can try and drive. (13 and 17)

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Had the opportunity to head back home and play 36 at Medinah #3 for my dad's 70th. Played a nice, lowkey round with him and my friend in the afternoon - my dad played out of his mind and couldn't have been happier with his birthday gift.

 

My buddy and I played from the tips in the morning (~7600 yards!?) with a consistent 20-30mph wind. Shot a 92. Not even the slightest bit mad.

 

Excited for the Ryder Cup this weekend, was at Medinah in 2012 on Saturday... Luckily saw some amazing golf before watching the European miracle on Sunday from the couch.

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I've said it before and I live a couple miles from the course. I can't imagine giving Colorado National another dime of my money or a minute of my time. Every person I talk to who thinks it may have gotten better or thought the times looked open enough to play in a reasonable amount of time has been SORELY disappointed. In fact, I'm not sure I've heard of a sub 5 hour round there in the past 2 years. And, in my experience, the guys in the pro shop are pretty much dicks. Never pleasant when asked reasonable questions and always more than happy to share the message that the range is closed for a wedding or special event.

 

I drive past that course every day and don't even think about playing it anymore.

 

On the other hand, I accidentally booked a time for next Sunday at Indian Peaks intending to play this past Sunday. I showed up about 40 minutes before the time and the staff there were really great at squeezing our threesome in. Course was playing pretty nice. Greens out there are weird. Some screaming fast and some super slow.

I have had similar bad experiences at Colorado National. One time I had a tee time around noon and when we showed up we found out there was a frost delay that morning and every tee time was pushed back 1.5 hours or so. We had plans after the round and couldn't finish 18, the staff didn't seem to care. It bothered me that we booked online and they therefore had my email and couldn't find a way to send out a notification? Especially since I was getting their marketing emails nearly daily.

 

I do have a general question about slow play and course marshalls...has anyone ever seen them actually do anything about slow play? I get frustrated because it seems like they are quick to tell me I am behind pace, even when I have to wait on nearly every hole, but I am not sure I have actually seen them take action against a slow group. I have seen courses with marshalls crawling all over the place and the rounds are still slow as can be. Doesn't seem like the marshalls ever accomplish anything. Are there courses that will enforce pace of play and make slow groups skip a hole?

Joel! Colorado National needs you!

 

Haha, I'm starting to realize why I have only played there in once in the last few years. It's not worth the drive to deal with that crap. As for those of you who love the layout, what is so great about it? Other than it being able to play super long I don't think it's all that special other than a few holes. But I guess that is the beauty of course design....different strokes for different folks.

 

I really like elevation change from tee to fairway or fairway to green. I also like courses where I don't have to pull driver a lot. Most of the Par 4's require layups/less than driver off the tee, and a couple of par 4's you can try and drive. (13 and 17)

 

So most guys already know this but I can give my $0.02 after being a member there from 9/12 until 11/17.

 

Pros: The membership price was extremely good when I signed up. Unlimited play riding for the whole fam for $350/mo with only $100 down. The other members are amazing. REALLY REALLY great people for the most part. Access to the indoor facility is huge. To be able to go there and hit balls and do some short game work during winter is awesome. Especially since you're hitting balls and able to actually watch them fly vs. a sim. I also liked that they had members-only putting, chipping and range areas. The restaurant was solid and the Assistant Pro was an awesome guy and great instructor. He couldn't take the management any longer either and has since gone to be the Assistant pro at Pradera. I also liked the layout a lot also. It never got boring to me and was always a challenge. It was super interesting too how much it would change throughout the year. That course is twice as hard from 5/15-7/1 because of how brutal the native gets as well as the month surrounding the college tournament. Also at the time we had a fantastic reciprocal program. Being able to go walk Fox Hill in Longmont for $14 was worth it's weight in gold. That course is LEGIT.

 

Cons: Easily the biggest by far was upper management. The GM really doesn't know how to run a golf course and take care of his customers. His biggest problem is he thinks entirely too short term. This problem trickles down into everything as s*** rolls downhill. Jason, the head pro isn't even PGA certified. While the guy is actually funny when you know him he's basically a dick to everyone he doesn't know (which is 90% of people when you're behind the desk.) Here are some examples of what this short-term thinking leads: Packing the golf course, putting public play before members, overworking and short-staffing, etc.

The biggest persistent problem is he has this business model where he's trying to fit in-between a nice course and a muni. Unfortunately if you think about it that is a terrible business model. If you're running a golf course you need to either make rounds cheap and succeed on low cost and volume OR you need to staff-up large and do all the little things like a parking lot guy taking clubs, water in the cart coolers, etc. and charge $70+.

 

As for the pace of play issues: these will likely always persist. There are many contributing factors:

  1. Cheap rounds. GM fills empty slots with cheap times which generally leads to cheaper golfers that don't play as often. Also many more golfers in this category don't have good etiquette. (No offense meant, these are generalities)
  2. The golf course is long and hard off the tee, leading to a lot of looking for golf balls. Which is funny when you think of how wide it is but I digress.
  3. Over packing the tee sheet

I can't tell you how many times I've been on the range and seen people go to the black or heaven forbid the tips and then hit three golf balls off the tee :cheesy:.

Also a quick short story: the old AP did a pace of play study on the golf course and evaluated every single hole for proper pace of play guidelines to update the pace on the carts. His conclusion was that it should be 4:28. He brought it to the GM and the GM arbitrarily changed three of the holes to make them a shorter pace of play then what the study said. Think about what that does: it now makes everyone in a cart think they are behind even if they are technically playing just fine, which will just piss them off and make them SLOWER anyway.

 

This was more like my $.10 but you get the gist. Overall I don't regret being a member there. Having said that I also wouldn't go back unless the GM left. If I lived in the area again I would seriously consider a membership at Fox Hill though. The price is right and that golf course is the 2nd best parkland course I've played in CO after Ft. Collins CC.

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P.S. Jacob:

 

WTF is that guy doing all the way over there on #6 anyway?!?! That ball is OB by 50 yards. LEAVE IT

 

P.P.S

 

The only reason there is OB over there is so people don't spend all day looking for their golf balls. They added it on recommendation from the CGA for THAT EXACT REASON.

 

LOLOLOL

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I really like elevation change from tee to fairway or fairway to green. I also like courses where I don't have to pull driver a lot. Most of the Par 4's require layups/less than driver off the tee, and a couple of par 4's you can try and drive. (13 and 17)

 

You'd love Saddle Rock ...

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On #8 tee, they walked back and apologized to me that it was going so slow. Said they were waiting on the 4-some in front of them. Some D1 college golfers from Utah, preparing for an upcoming tournament. And to be fair, it was true. The college kids were unbearably slow. But still doesn't explain why these guys wouldn't just ask if I wanted to play with them.

 

Three things...

 

1. Maybe they're not very social. They probably didn't want a stranger to join the group. Not much you can do about that.

2. If I saw a group in front of my playing awful golf, I'm not sure I would want to join them. In the end, I probably would, but I would need to channel my patience.

3. If anything, I might skip ahead of the college group, then come back and play the holes I had to skip. If the pro shop gives you grief, tell them to stop drooling over college golfers.

 

I agree with Psuedo about skipping holes. I'm not sure why there wasn't a marshal out there but they should have given the college groups a lot of space. Even still, practice rounds shouldn't be longer than 4 hours.

 

Looked like there were groups in front of the college group as well. The college kids weren't pressing them by any means, but if I would have skipped ahead, I would have run into traffic no matter what. Just the pains of playing afternoons on the weekend. I knew I was going to be hard pressed getting a full 18 in starting at 3:00pm. I think overall I still played in 4 hours and 30 minutes. Being a somewhat fast player, and going off as a single will make everything feel painfully slow.

 

Also had a 2-some behind me, that kept catching up to me on the tee box. The first time it happened, I asked them if they wanted to join me...but they declined. A bunch of anti-social golfers this weekend!

 

I've said it before and I live a couple miles from the course. I can't imagine giving Colorado National another dime of my money or a minute of my time. Every person I talk to who thinks it may have gotten better or thought the times looked open enough to play in a reasonable amount of time has been SORELY disappointed. In fact, I'm not sure I've heard of a sub 5 hour round there in the past 2 years. And, in my experience, the guys in the pro shop are pretty much dicks. Never pleasant when asked reasonable questions and always more than happy to share the message that the range is closed for a wedding or special event.

 

I drive past that course every day and don't even think about playing it anymore.

 

On the other hand, I accidentally booked a time for next Sunday at Indian Peaks intending to play this past Sunday. I showed up about 40 minutes before the time and the staff there were really great at squeezing our threesome in. Course was playing pretty nice. Greens out there are weird. Some screaming fast and some super slow.

 

Same here. Colorado National is always a 5+ hour round unless you're first off in my experience (even on weekdays!) and I haven't been back there in years. Jacob - if you played in 4.5 hours there on a weekend afternoon, you basically hit the lottery.

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I do have a general question about slow play and course marshalls...has anyone ever seen them actually do anything about slow play? I get frustrated because it seems like they are quick to tell me I am behind pace, even when I have to wait on nearly every hole, but I am not sure I have actually seen them take action against a slow group. I have seen courses with marshalls crawling all over the place and the rounds are still slow as can be. Doesn't seem like the marshalls ever accomplish anything. Are there courses that will enforce pace of play and make slow groups skip a hole?

 

The Westminster city courses (Walnut Creek, Legacy Ridge) are the only public courses I've ever played where I saw a marshal force a group to pick up and go to the next tee box or quit and get a refund (that was back in the early 2000s). They used to have a great marshal training program and they would give a friendly warning, then if that didn't work another warning and the marshal would follow the group till they sped up and finally tell them to pick up and move to the next hole or head in for a refund if none of that worked, but they got rid of their marshals years ago. I don't know if it is true, but the rumor I heard is the city didn't want to give out free rounds to the volunteer marshals any more. Those are still probably two of the best places in the Denver metro area to get a public under 5 hour round on the weekend since they use 10 minute tee time gaps and the assistant pros will head out and say something if there is an extremely slow group.

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I really like elevation change from tee to fairway or fairway to green. I also like courses where I don't have to pull driver a lot. Most of the Par 4's require layups/less than driver off the tee, and a couple of par 4's you can try and drive. (13 and 17)

 

You'd love Saddle Rock ...

 

Oooooosh. I hate that course. I don't know what it is but that's one of very few courses that I just won't play again if I can help it.

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I do have a general question about slow play and course marshalls...has anyone ever seen them actually do anything about slow play? I get frustrated because it seems like they are quick to tell me I am behind pace, even when I have to wait on nearly every hole, but I am not sure I have actually seen them take action against a slow group. I have seen courses with marshalls crawling all over the place and the rounds are still slow as can be. Doesn't seem like the marshalls ever accomplish anything. Are there courses that will enforce pace of play and make slow groups skip a hole?

 

The Westminster city courses (Walnut Creek, Legacy Ridge) are the only public courses I've ever played where I saw a marshal force a group to pick up and go to the next tee box or quit and get a refund (that was back in the early 2000s). They used to have a great marshal training program and they would give a friendly warning, then if that didn't work another warning and the marshal would follow the group till they sped up and finally tell them to pick up and move to the next hole or head in for a refund if none of that worked, but they got rid of their marshals years ago. I don't know if it is true, but the rumor I heard is the city didn't want to give out free rounds to the volunteer marshals any more. Those are still probably two of the best places in the Denver metro area to get a public under 5 hour round on the weekend since they use 10 minute tee time gaps and the assistant pros will head out and say something if there is an extremely slow group.

 

Ironically, CO National started doing this in 2016 to the morning golfers. I actually saw the marshal make a group ahead of us skip a hole. But much like the Westy courses they stopped doing it I'm guessing.

 

Dancin is absolutely right. I've never once had a slow round at either Walnut or Legacy. Also, that's option number two if I'm close to those courses. The full-year pass is a really great deal, especially if you're a walker.

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I really like elevation change from tee to fairway or fairway to green. I also like courses where I don't have to pull driver a lot. Most of the Par 4's require layups/less than driver off the tee, and a couple of par 4's you can try and drive. (13 and 17)

 

You'd love Saddle Rock ...

 

Oooooosh. I hate that course. I don't know what it is but that's one of very few courses that I just won't play again if I can help it.

 

Heh - not my favorite either, but primarily because it (i) takes driver out of your hands on so many holes and (ii) has so much elevation change between tee/fairway and green.

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Also, scheduled a fitting Saturday morning at Club Champion to go check them out. Looking to replace utility irons, irons, and wedges. Really interested in Srixon/Cleveland or Mizuno/? this year. Leaning Srixon if the numbers look good. I'll let you guys know next week.

Callaway Mavrik Subzero 10.5 Graphite Design ADDI 7XX
Srixon U85 2,3,4 Nippon NSPro 1050s
Srixon 785 5-PW Nippon NSPro 1050s
Cleveland RTX-4 Tour Raw 50,55,61 Nippon NSPro 1050s
Scotty Cameron Futura 5W 34.5

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Also, scheduled a fitting Saturday morning at Club Champion to go check them out. Looking to replace utility irons, irons, and wedges. Really interested in Srixon/Cleveland or Mizuno/? this year. Leaning Srixon if the numbers look good. I'll let you guys know next week.

 

There seems to be quite a few long time Mizuno MP players who have switched to forged Srixon irons ever since they came out with those first ones years ago.

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Heh - not my favorite either, but primarily because it (i) takes driver out of your hands on so many holes and (ii) has so much elevation change between tee/fairway and green.

 

I’ll never know what this is like. I hit driver as much as I can. In fact I played with my wife at Riverdale Dunes and two buddies. One of them bet me I couldn’t shoot under par from the ladies tees. I drove the green on #18 and two putted for a 71 despite a double on #5 and a couple three-putt bogeys. I hit driver on every non par 3 other than 14 & 15. I actually had a blast doing this. In fact I think I might start playing sub 6300 yard tees from now on. So much fun for me. Shot 75 the next day from the gold tees at Heritage Eagle Bend.

 

Sure I can go shoot an 88 from the tips but why would I want to?

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Heh - not my favorite either, but primarily because it (i) takes driver out of your hands on so many holes and (ii) has so much elevation change between tee/fairway and green.

 

I’ll never know what this is like. I hit driver as much as I can. In fact I played with my wife at Riverdale Dunes and two buddies. One of them bet me I couldn’t shoot under par from the ladies tees. I drove the green on #18 and two putted for a 71 despite a double on #5 and a couple three-putt bogeys. I hit driver on every non par 3 other than 14 & 15. I actually had a blast doing this. In fact I think I might start playing sub 6300 yard tees from now on. So much fun for me. Shot 75 the next day from the gold tees at Heritage Eagle Bend.

 

Sure I can go shoot an 88 from the tips but why would I want to?

 

I’m the same way; driver gets pulled every time unless I’m absolutely forced to hit less club.

 

I’d be super down to play the up tees from time to time, but the amount of waiting on par 4s for the green to clear would kill me.

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Also, scheduled a fitting Saturday morning at Club Champion to go check them out. Looking to replace utility irons, irons, and wedges. Really interested in Srixon/Cleveland or Mizuno/? this year. Leaning Srixon if the numbers look good. I'll let you guys know next week.

 

HAHAHAHAHA I called today to discuss a fitting with the 785's at CC. (maybe a split set) Looking in 3 weeks out based my schedule with work and I will be out of town in a bit too

 

I told them up front I want to be fit in the best stock shaft from Mizzy, unless they can show me something that much better but Mizzy offers up a lot of excellent shafts with very little up charge so sure I can get the specs dialed in and just order them.

 

Edit: let me know your thoughts on the fitting. I know 5 people who have done it now and its 50/50 on it.

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