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Miura 1957 Small Blade/Baby Blade enthusiasts thread! (Lots of enabling and physics lessons inside)


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So I too have shot my best round ever with BBs, however I don't know that I can wholeheartedly agree with the fact that we're not giving anything up. I feel like that's true when compared to other blades for sure, and maybe even players cavities. When you put them up against something like a Ping G however, I feel like the level of forgiveness from a distance consistency perspective absolutely adds up over time, and will lead to lower scores. Even if it's nominal, being just 1 yard closer to the hole will add up over time.

 

Now I was never able to get used to the look and offset of Ping Gs (I bought a set when I was determined to play for score rather than to maximize fun) - however I think that was more likely me just not really wanting to commit to them. Given time, I'm sure I, and everyone else who says "I just can't handle the offest" or "I hate the look" could make them work and likely shoot lower scores.

 

That said, there are SO SO many places I can VASTLY improve my game (literally everywhere) - that I don't really believe that I *need* to squeeze that 1 extra stroke per round out of the irons at the cost of the joy they bring me.

 

I'll reconsider once I:

 

- Start averaging 7 fairways per round

- Stop missing 2 putts within 5 feet per round

- Stop flubbing 1 chip per round

- Etc.

 

This is a very good take.

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I feel like I could write for hours on this debate but I also feel like it will mostly fall on deaf ears so I probably shouldn't. With that said playing BBs exclusively this year while also researching and discussing the subject in general has taught me a few things some might find interesting.

 

--Like bladehunter said forgiveness is not as cut and dry as either side would like it to be. What is forgiving for someone could be devastatingly unforgiving for another (like sole width).

 

--The effectiveness of forgiveness is way overstated in general. It is literally the only thing OEMs can use to sell new iron designs and they play up it's importance for the sake of their bottom line. As far as playability goes I think blades and GI clubs perform closer than either side would like to admit and anyone who does a true long term side by side comparison will see this in the data.

 

--I believe your average golfer is measuring forgivness by feel more than tangible improvement in where the shot finishes. I think a ball way out on the toe FEELS a lot less harsh on a GI club but the shots will fly more similar than most people realize.

 

--Adding to the first point, individual experience is king here. Guys who have no problem creating speed and launching the ball high usually have no issue with blades. Even guys who aren't flushing the ball consistently will get a lot out of a blade if the speed and launch are there as long as you hit it on the grooves. When speed and launch don't come as easy is when the blades can feel too daunting to play. Similar with sole width and design. If you take very steep divots and have low launch then of course blades are going to seem impossible. But it has more to do with selecting the right tool for the job than the tool being inherently easy to hit. A steep low launch guy is using a phillips head screwdriver to unscrew a flat head screw when he picks up a blade. Same for a high speed high launch guy with a very shallow attack angle picking up a p790. Its the wrong tool for the job. Of course there are exceptions to any rule and these are just brief and incomplete guidelines, but they seem very consistent in most people I've had this debate with in person (I teach golf, I've had this debate a lot). When you see two good players battling it out in the blades vs cb threads it has so much more to do with their chosen tools fitting their swing and style of play better than the club being easier to hit in a vacuum. You will find hundreds of posts on here from people saying they think blades are easier to hit and obviously even more saying the opposite. If you have to beleive everyone on the other side is an idiot to make your point valid then it might not be as valid as you think.

 

--Everyone saying BBs are forgiving are really just saying they are very playable compared to their expectations. You don't need to flush them to get a lot out of them. Of course if you don't hit it long and high and you have a steep angle of attack then these long irons are going to seem unplayable. But at the same time I find BB long irons to be extremely playable and I compete with them in my bag. Would a more forgiving head hold more speed and launch when I miss? Absolutely, but that gain does not come without a tradeoff somewhere else. For my swing and style of play it is a tradeoff I'm very happy to make. It's why I play blades in general, "they are slow every where" and I find that more useful for my game. I want control, not speed. Other's people's games require other tradeoffs so that is what they pursue. Play what you like! There is no one style of club that is better or easier for everyone.

 

I tried to like the 785s and various other players cavities I tested this year. Most of the more compact ones were very playable for me but they didn't give me anything I didn't already have. The bigger ones were nightmares for me. Big soles are just so detrimental for my swing and I like to know exactly where my misses are going. I feel the front to back dispersion is way greater as you get into the distance iron category.

 

--For me BBs bring a level of distance control and trajectory control I haven't found in any other clubs. They are more fun and satisfying to hit for sure, but when I'm swinging well I feel like I know where the ball is going to land right when I hit it. I originally called it a fluke but as it just kept happening that way and I've read lots of other experiences saying the same, I have to assume there is some credibility there. Ultimately Mr. Miura is saying these are the most accurate design out there and I'm guessing there might be some validity in his statement.

 

To make a long story short I'm not completely disregarding forgiveness I just don't think it is as impactful on people's scores as they have been lead to believe. Further, true forgivness is a very individual thing and no one club will be more forgiving to people's misses than another. There are some that are more forgiving for some very common misses (slow speed, low launch, ground first contact) but it still doesn't make them inherently easier to hit. Just easier to hit for a common style of miss. Thats my $.02. I've had fun playing BBs this year and if something ends up beating them out I'll still keep a set or two to practice with and enjoy on the course. They are too much fun to play!

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I feel like I could write for hours on this debate but I also feel like it will mostly fall on deaf ears so I probably shouldn't. With that said playing BBs exclusively this year while also researching and discussing the subject in general has taught me a few things some might find interesting.

 

--Like bladehunter said forgiveness is not as cut and dry as either side would like it to be. What is forgiving for someone could be devastatingly unforgiving for another (like sole width).

 

--The effectiveness of forgiveness is way overstated in general. It is literally the only thing OEMs can use to sell new irom designs and they play up it's importance for the sake of their bottom line. As far as playability goes I think blades and GI clubs perform closer than either side would like to admit and anyone who does a true long term side by side comparison will see this in the data.

 

--I believe your average golfer is measuring forgivness by feel more than tangible improvement in where the shot finishes. I think a ball way out on the toe FEELS a lot less harsh on a GI club but the shots will fly more similar than most people realize.

 

--Adding to the first point, individual experience is king here. Guys who have no problem creating speed and launching the ball high usually have no issue with blades. Even guys who aren't flushing the ball consistently will get a lot out of a blade if the speed and launch are there as long as you hit it on the grooves. When speed and launch don't come as easy is when the blades can feel too daunting to play. Similar with sole width and design. If you take very steep divots and have low launch then of course blades are going to seem impossible. But it has more to do with selecting the right tool for the job than the tool being inherently easy to hit. A steep low launch guy is using a phillips head screwdriver to unscrew a flat head screw when he picks up a blade. Same for a high speed high launch guy with a very shallow attack angle picking up a p790. Its the wrong tool for the job. Of course there are exceptions to any rule and these are just brief and incomplete guidelines, but they seem very consistent in most people I've had this debate with in person (I teach golf, I've had this debate a lot). When you see two good players battling it out in the blades vs cb threads it has so much more to do with their chosen tools fitting their swing and style of play better than the club being easier to hit in a vacuum. You will find hundreds of posts on here from people saying they think blades are easier to hit and obviously even more saying the opposite. If you have to beleive everyone on the other side is an idiot to make your point valid then it might not be as valid as you think.

 

--Everyone saying BBs are forgiving are really just saying they are very playable compared to their expectations. You don't need to flush them to get a lot out of them. Of course if you don't hit it long and high and you have a steep angle of attack then these long irons are going to seem unplayable. But at the same time I find BB long irons to be extremely playable and I compete with them in my bag. Would a more forgiving head hold more speed and launch when I miss? Absolutely, but that gain does not come without a tradeoff somewhere else. For my swing and style of play it is a tradeoff I'm very happy to make. It's why I play blades in general, "they are slow every where" and I find that more useful for my game. I want control, not speed. Other's people's games require other tradeoffs so that is what they pursue. Play what you like! There is no one style of club that is better or easier for everyone.

 

I tried to like the 785s and various other players cavities I tested this year. Most of the more compact ones were very playable for me but they didn't give me anything I didn't already have. The bigger ones were nightmares for me. Big soles are just so detrimental for my swing and I like to know exactly where my misses are going. I feel the front to back dispersion is way greater as you get into the distance iron category.

 

--For me BBs bring a level of distance control and trajectory control I haven't found in any other clubs. They are more fun and satisfying to hit for sure, but when I'm swinging well I feel like I know where the ball is going to land right when I hit it. I originally called it a fluke but as it just kept happening that way and I've read lots of other experiences saying the same, I have to assume there is some credibility there. Ultimately Mr. Miura is saying these are the most accurate design out there and I'm guessing there might be some validity in his statement.

 

To make a long story short I'm not completely disregarding forgiveness I just don't think it is as impactful on people's scores as they have been lead to believe. Further, true forgivness is a very individual thing and no one club will be more forgiving to people's misses than another. There are some that are more forgiving for some very common misses (slow speed, low launch, ground first contact) but it still doesn't make them inherently easier to hit. Just easier to hit for a common style of miss. Thats my $.02. I've had fun playing BBs this year and if something ends up beating them out I'll still keep a set or two to practice with and enjoy on the course. They are too much fun to play!

 

Well said.

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Has anyone hit both the Ft. Worth 15/black and the BB? I'd be interested in any comparisons. I'm really trying not to buy a set of Ft Worth clubs, but the price seems too good to pass up.

 

The Ft Worth irons are really good. As someone who loves the BBs I'm actually actively trying to get them out of my bag for a few reasons that don't really relate to performance and the Ft Worth Blacks are the top contender currently (Cobra MBs and MP 18s in the running).

 

Feel is less firm and lively than the BB (what isn't?) but overall is pretty similar. If BBs are firmest and Endo is softest with Mizuno in the middle I'd put these between BB and Mizuno. No mushy feelings and you know where you hit it. Again not quite as precise as the BB, but again what is?

 

My favorite aspects are the progressive head size and weight distribution. Long irons are bigger than short irons and the long irons fly high and the short irons are more penetrating. I also absolutely love the DBM finish (same as cobra). Has a more gunmetal look than black and really holds up well. Most durable of any finish out there, including chrome. I feel like I can beat the crap out of them and never worry about it and that's something I'm looking for.

 

My only gripe with them is the non traditional hosel and head shape. The big fat hosel gives them a gooseneck/offset look I'm not crazy about. Ideally I want a set that transitions to and from BB more seamlessly but it's a small gripe overall and it hasn't removed them from the running. But it is probably the main reason I haven't committed to them yet. (Edit: The black reduced this visual effect a lot. Way more noticeable on the chrome)

 

I can do comparison pics with BB if you'd like any, just let me know. Hope that helps!

 

Edit: Here is a pic after a recent makeover. They are truly beautiful clubs.

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These are my insights

 

They look amazing

Feel amazing

And I hit them good

 

That’s all

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Driver = Titleist TSi2 Hzrdus smoke 6.0

1 iron = Titleist U510 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
3 iron = Titleist U500 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
Irons = Wilson Staff FG59, DG S300 4-PW
Wedges = Bettinardi HLX 3.0 50*

                  Taylormade MG2 56* and 60*

Putter = Odyssey white hot pro 1WS 

Ball = Bridgestone Tour B RXS 

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  • 2 months later...

I believe I remember reading more than once that no BB user has run into another BB user out in the wild. Is that still true? I was practicing at the dome we have here and about attacked this guy with excitement when I saw he had BBs in his hands :)

 

They felt very nice to swing with those KBS graphite shafts he had in them. Looked really sharp as well. Also I hadn't seen the 1008 next to a BB but they make a really nice transition. Definitely the best miura option to combo with the BBs from a visual perspective. They looked like they fit together.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was told a month or two ago these were going to be the exact same iron with a "cleaner look" with regard to the badging. That hasn't been confirmed since the pics were released but it came from a reliable source. Will look forward to hearing if anything actually changed but the pic looks identical to me.

 

As far as how they came out I think they look very nice but I actually prefer the original badging. I like the 1957 leaf logo a lot. That logo and nothing else would be my dream baby blade. With that said I see the attraction here and suspect they will be pretty popular. Keeping the baby blade alive is a great thing in my book.

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> @nandersen said:

> Hey y'all! absolutely would die for these clubs and I'm so blessed to be playing them! Soon my set will be 1-PW thanks to @"PopIt&DropIt" and @willpeoples

 

It still hurts a little to let them go so please don't remind me again ;) Haha enjoy them! I'm happy they are going to a good home where they will get shafted up and played. Don't forget to post pics here!

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> @"Pat du Golf" said:

> I just heard that Miura produced 50 sets that were already pre-ordered......gone. The next batch of 50 sets will take place in the month of September. It appears they will not make anymore BB 2.0 after the 100 sets.

 

I don't have any info to refute that but man that's a strange move. Will be curious to see if they truly cap them at 100. I have my doubts but they've proven me wrong before.

 

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> @"PopIt&DropIt" said:

> > @"Pat du Golf" said:

> > I just heard that Miura produced 50 sets that were already pre-ordered......gone. The next batch of 50 sets will take place in the month of September. It appears they will not make anymore BB 2.0 after the 100 sets.

>

> I don't have any info to refute that but man that's a strange move. Will be curious to see if they truly cap them at 100. I have my doubts but they've proven me wrong before.

>

 

This would be truly heartbreaking for a young man with a long, long future of playing BBs ahead of him -- me.

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> @Bigmean said:

> Happy it is being kept alive.....not a fan of "baby blade" actually being stamped on it, but no matter, the continued production of these is a very good thing for those of us who were concerned discontinue meant need to get another set to throw in closet...

 

Happy they're still forging the small blade...but the new logo / stamping, ugh.

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Meh, by time I am ready, answer is easy.... live with stampings you can’t even see at address, or buy a banged up set with good faces at a bargain, weld in all stamps

When refinishing for s upper clean set. I think just having Availability for these continued is huge and also will help make them more common used etc. totally agree though, not a fan of new stampings, but really let’s face it, stampings is not exactly a strong suit for them across miura lines...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do we know if this is a limited release or a consistent addition to the lineup?

Callaway - Epic Subzero 9* Oban Kiyoshi White 68g 04

TEE - CB Pro Limited 16.5*  Oban Kiyoshi White 74g 04

TEE - CB Pro U 19* Paderson KINETIXX TS Hybrid 80

Miura - Baby Blades 4 - PW KBS Tour Black 120s

Vokey - SM7 52* 56* 60* KBS Tour Black 120s

Ping - PLD Prime Tyne 35"

Grips- Iomic Sticky 2.3 .60

 

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> @raynorfan1 said:

> > @Bigmean said:

> > Happy it is being kept alive.....not a fan of "baby blade" actually being stamped on it, but no matter, the continued production of these is a very good thing for those of us who were concerned discontinue meant need to get another set to throw in closet...

>

> Happy they're still forging the small blade...but the new logo / stamping, ugh.

 

Agreed, I just started collecting Miura and now they want to go mainstream?

That’s about how good my timing is.

Can’t really blame the sons for wanting to kick back and enjoy the millions.

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guys i love my baby blades, more than anything whatsoever, best iron ive ever hit ...............

 

BUT ....................

 

i cannot hit my f****** 2 or 3 iron.. even the 4 iron off the turn.. off the tee on par 3s or short 4s they are fine, i can get the ball in the air... but second shots into par 5s, anything with forced carry, whatever it is, i just really cannot get these in the air enough to carry in my opinion....

 

anyone run a bit of a combo set? thinking of going for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron to replace the blades .. i just feel i dont get these up and flying enough rly

 

do i go for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron or stick it out with my BBs and just get better at the game (LOL)

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> @f123acez said:

> guys i love my baby blades, more than anything whatsoever, best iron ive ever hit ...............

>

> BUT ....................

>

> i cannot hit my **** 2 or 3 iron.. even the 4 iron off the turn.. off the tee on par 3s or short 4s they are fine, i can get the ball in the air... but second shots into par 5s, anything with forced carry, whatever it is, i just really cannot get these in the air enough to carry in my opinion....

>

> anyone run a bit of a combo set? thinking of going for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron to replace the blades .. i just feel i dont get these up and flying enough rly

>

> do i go for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron or stick it out with my BBs and just get better at the game (LOL)

 

If you can't hit 'em, you can't hit 'em. That's it, really! You don't need 2-3-4i that are only tee clubs (I'd only ever carry at most one iron that is exclusively a tee club). The only way you're going to get "better at the game" to play these irons is to either elevate your launch angle or to get more swing speed, and both of those are hard problems. I'd sooner find clubs that more aptly suit your game, and play the ones that give you joy.

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> @f123acez said:

> guys i love my baby blades, more than anything whatsoever, best iron ive ever hit ...............

>

> BUT ....................

>

> i cannot hit my **** 2 or 3 iron.. even the 4 iron off the turn.. off the tee on par 3s or short 4s they are fine, i can get the ball in the air... but second shots into par 5s, anything with forced carry, whatever it is, i just really cannot get these in the air enough to carry in my opinion....

>

> anyone run a bit of a combo set? thinking of going for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron to replace the blades .. i just feel i dont get these up and flying enough rly

>

> do i go for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron or stick it out with my BBs and just get better at the game (LOL)

 

I got a cb 57 3iron when I first got my baby blades and I didn't find them any easier to hit. They are longer heel to toe but I hit the BB 3 iron better. Many others here reported the same. If you want a Miura cavity back I think the cb 1008s are a better fit, although still not all that much more forgiving. There are a number of guys, myself included who feel the Ben Hogan Ft Worth Hi makes for a great baby blade long iron replacement. I bagged one with my BBs for all of last year and think its a great club. Very high launch and comes off like a rocket. Although much bigger I also think the Srixon u85 makes a great replacement and what I currently use.

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> @"PopIt&DropIt" said:

> > @f123acez said:

> > guys i love my baby blades, more than anything whatsoever, best iron ive ever hit ...............

> >

> > BUT ....................

> >

> > i cannot hit my **** 2 or 3 iron.. even the 4 iron off the turn.. off the tee on par 3s or short 4s they are fine, i can get the ball in the air... but second shots into par 5s, anything with forced carry, whatever it is, i just really cannot get these in the air enough to carry in my opinion....

> >

> > anyone run a bit of a combo set? thinking of going for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron to replace the blades .. i just feel i dont get these up and flying enough rly

> >

> > do i go for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron or stick it out with my BBs and just get better at the game (LOL)

>

> I got a cb 57 3iron when I first got my baby blades and I didn't find them any easier to hit. They are longer heel to toe but I hit the BB 3 iron better. Many others here reported the same. If you want a Miura cavity back I think the cb 1008s are a better fit, although still not all that much more forgiving. There are a number of guys, myself included who feel the Ben Hogan Ft Worth Hi makes for a great baby blade long iron replacement. I bagged one with my BBs for all of last year and think its a great club. Very high launch and comes off like a rocket. Although much bigger I also think the Srixon u85 makes a great replacement and what I currently use.

 

my issue isnt hitting them. i pure every single one of them from 2 iron to pitching wedge. they feel like missiles off the face. i just find the long irons 2,3,4 i cannot get it UP in the air. its like im hitting stingers with them. the rest my ball flight and launch is great in my opinion..

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> @f123acez said:

> > @"PopIt&DropIt" said:

> > > @f123acez said:

> > > guys i love my baby blades, more than anything whatsoever, best iron ive ever hit ...............

> > >

> > > BUT ....................

> > >

> > > i cannot hit my **** 2 or 3 iron.. even the 4 iron off the turn.. off the tee on par 3s or short 4s they are fine, i can get the ball in the air... but second shots into par 5s, anything with forced carry, whatever it is, i just really cannot get these in the air enough to carry in my opinion....

> > >

> > > anyone run a bit of a combo set? thinking of going for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron to replace the blades .. i just feel i dont get these up and flying enough rly

> > >

> > > do i go for the cb57s in 3 and 4 iron or stick it out with my BBs and just get better at the game (LOL)

> >

> > I got a cb 57 3iron when I first got my baby blades and I didn't find them any easier to hit. They are longer heel to toe but I hit the BB 3 iron better. Many others here reported the same. If you want a Miura cavity back I think the cb 1008s are a better fit, although still not all that much more forgiving. There are a number of guys, myself included who feel the Ben Hogan Ft Worth Hi makes for a great baby blade long iron replacement. I bagged one with my BBs for all of last year and think its a great club. Very high launch and comes off like a rocket. Although much bigger I also think the Srixon u85 makes a great replacement and what I currently use.

>

> my issue isnt hitting them. i pure every single one of them from 2 iron to pitching wedge. they feel like missiles off the face. i just find the long irons 2,3,4 i cannot get it UP in the air. its like im hitting stingers with them. the rest my ball flight and launch is great in my opinion..

 

If you ask me, any issue with ball flight is an issue with "hitting them". A pured iron that doesn't launch and fly true isn't a pured iron in my book.

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