Single Length Updates (post'em up!)

[bulls9999]

No, I was saying my experience was 'anecdotal'. Same weight.... I believe so, Project X rifle-flighted 6.0 vs 5.5's and another set as well. I know going lighter flex and lighter weight would be changing 2 variables. And I agree with your that a lot in flex-related stuff is 'feel' which is pretty subjective and I often don't experience the same feeling for a shaft that others may (and I guess visa versa).

 

Hmm, don't know if I'd agree with that from anecdotal trial-and-error. Been in an overlystiff variable length set and gone to softer flex and felt better throughout the set....so the 7-iron lighter flex shaft that did/felt/loaded better than the 7-iron stiffer shaft, and others in the set disproves that as a generality to me.

 

toying with making up a set. Has anyone used a more stiff shaft short iron in SL? And a more soft tip for 5-6 irons? I know all shafts are supposed to be cut at 7 iron stiffness, but I'm thinking of getting graphite shafts, and hard stepping the 9-GW, and soft stepping 5-6 irons. What do you all think? Obviously, all lengths will stay the same.

 

Wishon has said that shaft flex basically makes no difference in SL irons as the shaft length is too short. Shaft weight, however, will alter playing characteristics.

 

Were the softer/stiffer flex shafts you tried the same weight?

 

I'm not sure I would call Wishon's research anecdotal, as he's one of the best club designers around and has access to robot testing. He wouldn't say such a thing without evidence.

 

All of this, of course, is player-dependent. Psychological effects shouldn't be underestimated.

[Noke]

No, I was saying my experience was 'anecdotal'. Same weight.... I believe so, Project X rifle-flighted 6.0 vs 5.5's and another set as well. I know going lighter flex and lighter weight would be changing 2 variables. And I agree with your that a lot in flex-related stuff is 'feel' which is pretty subjective and I often don't experience the same feeling for a shaft that others may (and I guess visa versa).

 

Hmm, don't know if I'd agree with that from anecdotal trial-and-error. Been in an overlystiff variable length set and gone to softer flex and felt better throughout the set....so the 7-iron lighter flex shaft that did/felt/loaded better than the 7-iron stiffer shaft, and others in the set disproves that as a generality to me.

 

toying with making up a set. Has anyone used a more stiff shaft short iron in SL? And a more soft tip for 5-6 irons? I know all shafts are supposed to be cut at 7 iron stiffness, but I'm thinking of getting graphite shafts, and hard stepping the 9-GW, and soft stepping 5-6 irons. What do you all think? Obviously, all lengths will stay the same.

 

Wishon has said that shaft flex basically makes no difference in SL irons as the shaft length is too short. Shaft weight, however, will alter playing characteristics.

 

Were the softer/stiffer flex shafts you tried the same weight?

 

I'm not sure I would call Wishon's research anecdotal, as he's one of the best club designers around and has access to robot testing. He wouldn't say such a thing without evidence.

 

All of this, of course, is player-dependent. Psychological effects shouldn't be underestimated.

 

Ah, gotcha. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

I don't really have a dog in this hunt, just wanted to relay what Mr. Wishon has written (though I should have been clearer about the flex/kick point).

[g-off]

the reivised answer from customer service, 4* for loft or lie either way!!!

[Kedde84]

Sure somebody in this froum have tried or still play the Cobra Forged Tec One's.

So what is your experience with these irons?

 

I am just about toorder a set 4-PW with AMT White.

[MountainGoat]

I have a set of F7s. My only problem with them is that they have a very wide sole and are not ideal from tight lies. So, I tried a forged 7-iron just to see how it compares. From that limited test, I prefer the forged club. It has a narrower sole and top line, and it plays more like a conventional iron.

[Aucaveman]

Sure somebody in this froum have tried or still play the Cobra Forged Tec One's.

So what is your experience with these irons?

 

I am just about toorder a set 4-PW with AMT White.

 

I've been rotating them and my 99 hogan apex blades. My scores really doesn't change much, but they are definitely easier to hit than the blades. I pre-ordered the blacks and actually played them sat. Mine have the recoil 780 es smacwraps in xs. I'm 2 clubs longer with the blacks. They feel great and are very consistent. My only thing I'll say is, if you don't like offset, buy the edels. That's why I prefer the blades, because of the looks. I'm actually looking for a set of edels (because of the offset), reasonably priced but you can't go wrong with the blacks.

[Lmt270]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That’s how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

[Kedde84]

I don't have a problem with the offset at all, and i think black color helps on that.

Have owned a set of Edel's, but could not get along with the shafts. Think i am more a steel shaft player (or maybe it is just in my head)

[J_Tizzle]

I see on Cobra's site, it says the One Length black irons are backordered. Any idea on how backordered we're talking here?

[g-off]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That's how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

I just got a 58 shafted at 36" my sl set is 37, also recently picked up the edel sw to use more on full shots liking it so far, previously sw was 35"

[matchavez]

Sure somebody in this froum have tried or still play the Cobra Forged Tec One's.

So what is your experience with these irons?

 

I am just about toorder a set 4-PW with AMT White.

 

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, why would you order a shaft sequence that's "Ascending mass" on a single length set?

[Pack7483]

Sure somebody in this froum have tried or still play the Cobra Forged Tec One's.

So what is your experience with these irons?

 

I am just about toorder a set 4-PW with AMT White.

 

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, why would you order a shaft sequence that's "Ascending mass" on a single length set?

 

That is the stock shaft in those irons. Also the new F9s have different weight shafts as the stock option.

[Rohlio]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That’s how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

 

3-P 37.5"

50-55-60 35.5"

 

Perfect

[Lmt270]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That's how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

 

3-P 37.5"

50-55-60 35.5"

 

Perfect

 

Ok, so I am not the only weirdo. Granted I am playing the super strong PW in my F8 SL set and 52, 56, and 60 in my MP-T5. Probably too much of a gap between my 52 and the pitching wedge, but I think I will quickly work it out this spring.

[boggyman]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That's how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

 

3-P 37.5"

50-55-60 35.5"

 

Perfect

 

Ok, so I am not the only weirdo. Granted I am playing the super strong PW in my F8 SL set and 52, 56, and 60 in my MP-T5. Probably too much of a gap between my 52 and the pitching wedge, but I think I will quickly work it out this spring.

No you’re not. One day I love my OL wedges and next day I don’t. Seriously considering VL wedges, but I’m trying hard to make the OL work. Time will tell. The stock F8 wedges spin like crazy though.

[stormbringer]

After a few buckets and one round with Cobra F7 SL I have gone back to standard length irons (Ping S55). The experiment did not last very long but for me the long PW-8 was a hurdle that I could not get over.

 

Mike.

[9woodfan]

After a few buckets and one round with Cobra F7 SL I have gone back to standard length irons (Ping S55). The experiment did not last very long but for me the long PW-8 was a hurdle that I could not get over.

 

Mike.

Takes alot of time to fully switch... It's a tough mental change.

[Wdwfreak]

I tried harder than anything I ever have with golf equipment for these, and I have had to let it go. That sounds dramatic but long post incoming, I put a lot of effort into this because i liked the idea so much.

 

Little background here first, I'm a pro in Wisconsin, passed my PAT a year ago and with that bit of pressure off wanted to make changes to get better and play competitively. I've recently (last 6 months) started working with a coach for the first time at age 23, I really picked up some consistency immediately I had started to lose over the prior 6 months. I felt i had reached a plateau without any help and wanted to get better. My 7 iron swing speed with all of these clubs is right at 95-96 mph just for reference.

 

With that I started taking really detailed stats using golfstatlab.com and it breaks it down into strokes gained, its a really excellent program honestly. With that data and what I was seeing I was hitting really good drives, chipping acceptably, and putting above average as well too. Almost entirely, my strokes lost were from my approach game, some with wedges, in particular with the irons.

 

I was enamored and impressed at the thinking behind single length irons, it really really makes sense on paper. Set up to every club the same? sounds nice, same swing? doubly nice. Something that sounds like what I need with my irons, pure consistency.

 

I purchased a set of Cobra One-length forged 4-PW with my specs from my regular Titleist irons (in my signature) Elected to go a 1/4 short to 37", standard lie, and the lofts were ever changing. The clubs come at a stock setup with loft 4-PW at

 

23, 26, 29, 33, 37, 41, 45

 

This was the first thing to give me massive problems, this gapping just did not work. I tried very hard to make it work, the 4,5,6 just didn't go anywhere and so I had a really hard time at the 180-220 distance. That was the opposite of what I thought was going to happen. In fact, the 8-PW felt good enough I immediately moved into GW, 55, 60 in One-length as well. That gapping felt ok, and I was hitting the upper part of the bag fairly well. Also surprising was that I was still chipping pretty well with a 37" 60 degree, the change took less getting used too than I expected. In fact, the whole One-length idea went the opposite of what I thought, I thought i would really struggle with 8 iron to 60 degree and that change went fairly seamless. As I have already said, the 4-6 iron is what was the struggle, hard to hit, the apex was way too low and the distance was too short.

 

After messing with lofts to try to fix that I began to realize I was just never going to hit the, in particular, 4-5 iron very well. So I started looking into alternatives, and the Cobra One-length utilties look and feel AWESOME. So I got the 3 and 4 iron, and it also took a lot of finagling with the lofts and fixed the apex height issues, and I thought the distance/gapping issues were gone. My set with the utlities now was lofted like this:

 

20.5, 23.5, 27, 31, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60

 

I felt confident now after I did this and I was smacking the utlities, I started to see the consistency I was hoping for with the long irons being shorter. I hit a lot of range balls after i had my final loft adjustment and quite a few rounds too. The honeymoon effect the first few rounds with particularly the new utlities was there, I expected it, but the results were still exceeding my expectations. Those stats all of the sudden started to even out and I saw my approach game lose less strokes for me each round. Exactly what I was looking for.

 

Unfortunately, I then moved into bigger, longer courses. I started to see that that 20.5 degree utility carry consistently around 210-215, and I had it maxed out, 95 mph clubhead and a 1.48 smash factor and those were the numbers I was consistently seeing. I really thought it was ok, and it was going to work still, but trackman only gets you so far. Out on real, longer courses, playing at 6900-7200+ yards I was finding 220-240 yard shots were really common, par 3s and par 5s particularly. My 18 degree 5 wood goes around 245-255 or a bit more if I juice up my swing. And as i said, that utility went 210-215 (220 if i pure it and take my biggest whack at it) and as you can see that created quite the gap. Fora quick example, I had a 225 yard par 3 where I just actually felt I had to lay up, I was stumped on the tee, I hit my best utility i could and it actually reached the front of the green, but it was perfect contact and maybe a helping breeze, you change either of those factors and I just can't get that club there, ever.

 

Did i try alternatives? Yes, but it started to confuse me, play a 21 degree hybrid that goes that yardage? that means I have two clubs in my bag at essentially the same loft, that didn't jive well with me and it took my 5 wood out, which I find incredibly useful off the tee, you sometimes need a fairway finder that goes 250+ rather than 230 with a hybrid, that 20 yards or more in a fairway finder can make a big difference for me.

 

So unfortunately after 4-5 months of putting more work into these than any facet of equipment I have ever used they just weren't going to work. I felt I gave them enough time, effort, testing on a trackman as well as the range, and course time to firmly say that I can't make them work. I said when I started this idea makes too much sense, I have to try it to settle for myself if it will work as well as it looks on paper and with Bryson's success. I've reached that point and given them all the chances where I had a few times I could've put them away.

 

My final conclusions after that earlier honeymoon phase on course as I talked about came down to three primary things:

 

1.) The bulk of my this is gapping, and that is the primary concern, I did A LOT of work on trackman to dial in these lofts and it still didn't work. the 4-7 iron all were too close together. I sometimes was hitting a 5 as far as my 6, 6 as far as the 7, the 7 and 8 were going about the same, you get the idea, the utilities did that too. It was a bit better in the 8-60 degree but point #2 below was the problem there. You sprinkle in some wind and I was getting some real problems. It threw the gapping off even more. If someone wants more detail here I'd be happy to elaborate even more.

 

2.) After the initial rounds where I was kind of blind to this, I started having real accuracy problems with the high irons, the 8-60 degree just loses accuracy when its longer, and unless you are striking it as purely as Bryson swing after swing you can't help but notice this. (And it really should be noted, look even to this day how much testing, fiddling, and changes even bryson has to make, he had to go the utilities in the 4-5 as well, he has new wedges with that bizarre welding with all the weight towards the heel, and now just this week he has the Cobra tour guys making irons with insane bounce and wider soles to test) The 8-9 were ok, not as good, but close. The wedges were the bigger side of the problem here, I wasn't hitting them any further (I still can't figure this one out, but they were going the same yardages as my 35.5-35" wedges) and the extra length was causing a distinct lack in accuracy. Lastly here, I got to harder courses (Florida with short Bermuda green surrounds) which I believe to be the hardest pitching and chipping scenario in terms of green complexes I've found and now that 37" 60 I thought was working in my short game was really starting to do the opposite. It just wasn't accurate enough chipping nor did it allow me to open the face and play those soft shots from the short grass that I needed to a number of times.

 

3.) Time and resources, I don't have Brysons access to tour builders or quick changes and none of us do here. I'm lucky to be close friends with a expert clubfitter that really helped me to try to dial this in, and even he remarked that this was a lot of change that had to be made to get these even close to working for me. The bottom line with this third point is that off the rack, even built for me with x100s they were not even close to working properly. It took me weeks if not months to try to dial it in, realize the 4-5 iron wasn't going to work, get utilities, redo it all again, try it out in real life again.... and realize it still isn't going to work. If you want to tell me an average amateur, even a single digit guy has that kind of time or wants to put in that kind of effort? No way, and the marketing (remember always, its marketing) of putting it right into amateurs bags and having it change their game is just not feasible in my opinion.

 

If you read to this point, thank you, I just wanted to expound on my thoughts with this rather large experiment and try to inform others of my likes and dislikes. Did it feel like this was all a waste of time? No, not one bit, like I said, I couldn't rest until this idea that sounds so fantastic on paper was fully fleshed out for me. And i'm just happy now I've come to a conclusion one way or the other. Unfortunately it did go this way. The death-knell for single length with me was both on course and on a trackman, my standard AP2 4 iron (same shafts) at 24 degrees of loft was going considerably further and just as consistent as the 20.5 degree utility one-length. That just isn't going to cut it when I am trying to play competitively especially, as I outlined above, on longer and longer courses.

 

I hope to other faster swingers this can really give you a taste of what to expect if you try this, maybe it will work better for you! I'm a good ballstriker, not saying that to brag, but to say that I felt consistent enough in my strikes to come to this conclusion on clubs rather than my swing letting me down. If you're a slower swinger I hope I can also provide, maybe not in a first hand way, but still provide information as to the effort and changes it requires to get this working the correct way.

 

Thank you, I still love one-length on paper, but I just couldn't get it to work out on the course.

 

-Joe

[OsnolaKinnard]

Anyone make a long term commitment to VL wedges and SL irons. That's how I finished out my season, and I was definitely much more dialed in 100 in going back to my old wedges. However, I will say green side chipping with the SL gap wedge was a lot more confidence inspiring for some reason. I think cause it forces you to stay more upright it almost feels like putting.

 

I have been playing this way since I got my Edels. I contemplated going to SL wedges, but honestly, this works so well, I am not changing it. Also, your experiences with chipping with the GW...is EXACTLY the same as mine. In fact, that is the ONE thing that causes me to think about getting the Edel SLS01 SW to match...but I've got something working and don't want to mess with it.

[Norboo]

Anyone play their reg set up to 7 iron and add the one length from 6, 5 and 4 irons?

[Rohlio]

Anyone play their reg set up to 7 iron and add the one length from 6, 5 and 4 irons?

somebody in this thread is doing that...had a long conversation about and he seems quite pleased with that type of setup.

[Norboo]

Anyone play their reg set up to 7 iron and add the one length from 6, 5 and 4 irons?

somebody in this thread is doing that...had a long conversation about and he seems quite pleased with that type of setup.

 

I love my current iron set. However, not too consistent with 5 and 4 irons. To me, it seems to make sense to play one length in the longer irons. Might have to give it a try.

[Rohlio]

Anyone play their reg set up to 7 iron and add the one length from 6, 5 and 4 irons?

somebody in this thread is doing that...had a long conversation about and he seems quite pleased with that type of setup.

 

I love my current iron set. However, not too consistent with 5 and 4 irons. To me, it seems to make sense to play one length in the longer irons. Might have to give it a try.

 

I thought about doing that as well...It would have probably worked as I hit the 3 utility down to the 7 iron in One Length so well.

 

I underestimated how much I actually like the longer short irons though. So I just went OL down to gap wedge and then G-L 35.5"

[cardoustie]

I'm not SL but what works for me is what follows:

 

9 and PW ... and GW, SW, LW and XW ... 1/4" apart increments

 

5 to 8 iron, 3/8" apart

 

All swingweights get progressively heavier as the clubs are shorter .. pseudo MOI is my pet term for it

 

With a bad back .. the longer short irons helps a lot. And shorter mid irons are also easier to hit. YMMV

[J_Tizzle]

WdWfreak, thank you for the write up, very interesting point of view on lots of SL aspects.

 

In your opinion, was the biggest issue for you solely the gapping at the top of your bag? I'm asking, as I have ordered a set of Cobras (SL 5-G and the F9 SL in the 4i) trying to avoid the low balls that you discussed. For me, I usually play D-3W-5W-4h and then 5 down through the bag. Right now, my 5w goes about 230ish, and the 4h goes about 215-220, and the 5i goes 200-205, so hoping that the SL 4i just replaces my 4h and then the rest of the bag plays about normal.

 

What change did you experience between the two sets of irons in that area? So you'd hit the 20.5* utility shorter than a standard length 3i which caused the gapping at the top of your bag to be thrown off? As of right now, once i get my irons in, I think my plan is to just fiddle with where to start my SL experiment, maybe play my 4h, maybe add a 5h if I need the gapping to be adjusted, but not sure how that'll work.

 

Did you notice any accuracy issues in the shorter end of the bag? Thats my biggest concern going SL, I play my irons 0.5" long and ordered them that way, so playing with a standard 6i length gap wedge worries me some.

[Rohlio]

So you'd hit the 20.5* utility shorter than a standard length 3i which caused the gapping at the top of your bag to be thrown off?

 

This is the question I had. I turned one of my Utilities all the way down to the 18.5 setting then I have another one at 21...then my 4i at 24. This totally solved my gapping issue. I carry a 16* 4 wood.

 

Sometimes I only carry 4 wood...turn the 3 iron to 20.5 and then carry the regular 4i.

 

It seems to me with the adjustability of the utilities you ought to be able to span the gap between your 5 wood and your longest iron with 1 or 2 utilities depending.

[Wdwfreak]

WdWfreak, thank you for the write up, very interesting point of view on lots of SL aspects.

 

In your opinion, was the biggest issue for you solely the gapping at the top of your bag? I'm asking, as I have ordered a set of Cobras (SL 5-G and the F9 SL in the 4i) trying to avoid the low balls that you discussed. For me, I usually play D-3W-5W-4h and then 5 down through the bag. Right now, my 5w goes about 230ish, and the 4h goes about 215-220, and the 5i goes 200-205, so hoping that the SL 4i just replaces my 4h and then the rest of the bag plays about normal.

 

What change did you experience between the two sets of irons in that area? So you'd hit the 20.5* utility shorter than a standard length 3i which caused the gapping at the top of your bag to be thrown off? As of right now, once i get my irons in, I think my plan is to just fiddle with where to start my SL experiment, maybe play my 4h, maybe add a 5h if I need the gapping to be adjusted, but not sure how that'll work.

 

Did you notice any accuracy issues in the shorter end of the bag? Thats my biggest concern going SL, I play my irons 0.5" long and ordered them that way, so playing with a standard 6i length gap wedge worries me some.

 

 

The biggest issue was probably gapping, yes, and the yes the 20.5 was shorter than a standard iron. However, my concern is that it was shorter than a standard 24 degree 4 iron! a standard 3 iron was 20 yards further than the 20.5 utility.

 

As for lowering that to its lowest setting at 18.5, it still felt short to me in distance, and unforutantely that low ballflight began to rear its ugly head again, 18.5 had the ball flying very low. The forgiveness of having a 37" long iron started to dissipate because of how low the loft was getting as well. There's an element of forgiveness to loft and 18.5 is getting low for any iron, irrregardless of length. So unfortunately at the end of the day the 21 or 24 degree standard length iron just goes so much further and launches so much higher and I think, this still surprises me, im hitting it just as well. Perhaps i'm not the right candidate for single length in that regard because i do strike my long irons fairly well but Im not a monster in terms of incredibly high launch or spin on a long iron ala Bryson. That I believe is where this all came from.

 

As for what you are saying Rohlio, I think that could work but it requires another iron, I still like my 5 wood in the bag vs. a 18.5 and 21 degree Utility.

 

At the shorter end of the bag, yes, I think I mentioned this but i'll expand, I didn't think it would affect me, the extra length. Besides something that sounded good, more spin and more distance. But i didn't see the latter of those two and i could not figure that out. my gap wedge goes the same distance at 35.5" as 37" and it's more accurate. I wish i had a scientific trackman reason for that but to hypothesize I think the added length created higher launch and spin to average it out to about the same distance as my standard gap wedge. The added launch and spin was notceable, it launched REALLY high.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Also, a fascinating article by Dylan Dethier, and one of my key points, even the master of One-length himself does a lot of work to keep it working for him. I certainly don't have the resources for a lot of what he does.

 

https://www.golf.com/news/features/2019/03/07/watching-bryson-dechambeau-range-session/

[SDGolfRookie]

FWIW: Column sets left to right

- OL Cobra Black Forged Tec

- VL Ping iBlade

- OL Edel SLS

 

Not perfect data (i.e. different tee boxes some time)

 

Red rows = high end outliers

- Cobra = no reds...but that was my first OL time and I didn’t card some scores

 

- iblades = new course to me...I got dominated a few times

 

- Edel = I had the shanks, yo!

 

 

[longoffthetees]

About a month in and some issues are starting to pop up. Could be swing issues, but my distance is really falling off right now. I knew that it would going to weaker lofted clubs, but I'm a full 2 clubs shorter in the middle of my bag. Several times over the past few rounds I would hit a shot right on line to only see it fall out of the sky short of the green or just on the edge of the putting surface. I'm making a switch to a stronger lofted set (Cobra F9 OL) to see if that fixes my issue. If not, I may have to go back to VL irons. I love the way the Edel SLS irons look and feel, but the distance loss is hurting me right now.

[Galanga]

I am curious about one length so just sniffing around. Really not sure I will try them, but, find it interesting and logical.

 

Looked at Cobra specs online and it’s interesting. The Tour are the same lie angle throughout - 62.5 I think. The ForgedTec and F9 have increasing lie angle from PW to 4i - seemed totally incorrect and at best completely backwards. I asked Cobra and they said not a typo. That the Tours were the first ones they did and they learned a lot. The increasing lie angle as you progress into longer clubs they found works better with one length.

 

Totally baffling and counterintuitive to me but now I really want to try them out to see the affect on setup, swing, contact and flight.

 

What have you folks that have tried these experienced?