Playing golf in Vancouver Canada (NO POLITICS!)

[KBong]

13 hours ago, myspinonit said:

But perhaps new is the heads up to  polish up that credit card (or remortgage)  if you want to spend serious $ on Asian clubs:

https://www.britishcolumbiagolf.org/uncategorized/5098-ziemer-s-b-c-golf-notes-greentee-golf-shop-will-cater-to-high-end-clientele-michelle-liu-third-in-orlando-lauren-kim-top-5-at-junior-orange-bowl-mcdonald-tops-pga-of-bc-list

In 2013....I saw this at the Golftown in Richmond, BC.🤣

 

 

[KBong]

 

I've played Olympic View on Vanc. Island in 1995 and 2007.

 

What are the conditions like nowadays?......both winter and summer conditions.

Is it the usual sloppy public course conditions in winter?....or have they spent the money for proper drainage.

 

 

[Phireside]

1 hour ago, KBong said:

Sign me up!🤣

 

So how many here:

1) Believe Pagoda will be come an attractive and successful private club?

 

I think no.

I'm guessing that by the time they are ready to go public the golf madness we see now will have subsided some and it's not an attractive enough course if they are only making minor upgrades to the course itself. Just my $0.02

[The Beav]

10 hours ago, KBong said:

Sign me up!🤣

 

So how many here:

1) Believe Pagoda will be come an attractive and successful private club?

 

I think no.

Attractive? No. 

Successful? Probably.  I'm not sure if the location helps or hurts in this case.  Not much competition for Private Clubs down the valley if that's what people are looking for.

[KBong]

9 hours ago, Phireside said:

I'm guessing that by the time they are ready to go public the golf madness we see now will have subsided some and it's not an attractive enough course if they are only making minor upgrades to the course itself. Just my $0.02

Typo

Don't you mean..."to go private"

[Phireside]

48 minutes ago, KBong said:

Typo

Don't you mean..."to go private"

yes, and because I care so little about Pagoda, I'm not going to edit it. 😈

[myspinonit]

6 minutes ago, Phireside said:

yes, and because I care so little about Pagoda, I'm not going to edit it. 😈

 

It's no biggy. You're just ahead of the curve.  In England the term "public school"  really means a paid private school which never made sense to me.

[Golfnuck]

13 hours ago, KBong said:

Sign me up!🤣

 

So how many here:

1) Believe Pagoda will be come an attractive and successful private club?

 

I think no.

 

Brad Ziemer has an article on this -  https://britishcolumbiagolf.org/read/2-uncategorised/5097-ziemer-s-b-c-golf-notes-new-owners-plan-to-take-pagoda-ridge-private-crown-isle-gets-one-of-seven-mackenzie-tour-q-schools-lowe-promotion-opens-up-gm-vacancy-at-nicklaus-north-yeji-kwon-a-winner-in-florida

 

Here is an interesting quote:

 

“We are planning to tear down all the existing office buildings, pro shop, restaurant, because we are going to have a beautiful clubhouse that we have never seen before in Canada. It will have a spa and sauna. It will be amazing.”

 

I know of a similar golf course that is much closer to Vancouver and its suburbs that has a magnificent clubhouse with very nice spas in both the men's and lady's lockers.  Huge banquet facilities.  Two very nice golf courses that would take some money to bring back to pristine shape but the bones are there and the routing of both courses is great.

 

They must have taken a run at Swaneset and if they deemed it too expensive then they certainly do not have deep enough pockets to make the Pagoda project successful.

[KBong]

5 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

 

Brad Ziemer has an article on this -  https://britishcolumbiagolf.org/read/2-uncategorised/5097-ziemer-s-b-c-golf-notes-new-owners-plan-to-take-pagoda-ridge-private-crown-isle-gets-one-of-seven-mackenzie-tour-q-schools-lowe-promotion-opens-up-gm-vacancy-at-nicklaus-north-yeji-kwon-a-winner-in-florida

 

Here is an interesting quote:

 

“We are planning to tear down all the existing office buildings, pro shop, restaurant, because we are going to have a beautiful clubhouse that we have never seen before in Canada. It will have a spa and sauna. It will be amazing.”

 

I know of a similar golf course that is much closer to Vancouver and its suburbs that has a magnificent clubhouse with very nice spas in both the men's and lady's lockers.  Huge banquet facilities.  Two very nice golf courses that would take some money to bring back to pristine shape but the bones are there and the routing of both courses is great.

 

They must have taken a run at Swaneset and if they deemed it too expensive then they certainly do not have deep enough pockets to make the Pagoda project successful.

I think JKWG is backed by Korean money.

 

As per the article...lots of chirping.

They'll have big plans if they are going to make a more grandeur clubhouse in Canada and out build the one at Swaneset.

No discussion about the $1.5M in drainage work required???

I assume there is some adjacent land that was part of the purchase???...otherwise...where is the land to build a range???

They are gonna keep the current routing....WTH???

Huh....yes one can play until 945pm a month in and around June 22.....but if one tees off at 8pm.....then one would play holes 10-14 in the dark until they reached the last 4 holes with lights.

 

Yes...assuming they wanted to sell....Swaneset or even Northview would have been good targets for JKWG....but as you noted...JKWG's pockets might not be all that deep.

 

Again...assuming it wanted to sell...what about Pitt Meadows GC?

I think an $8M injection would make PMGC a somewhat ok private.

I believe PMGC is on a flood plain and this might prevent it from having ideal private course conditions?

When we had the Nov flood...PMGC remained closes for many many weeks.

 

[The Beav]

10 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

 

Brad Ziemer has an article on this -  https://britishcolumbiagolf.org/read/2-uncategorised/5097-ziemer-s-b-c-golf-notes-new-owners-plan-to-take-pagoda-ridge-private-crown-isle-gets-one-of-seven-mackenzie-tour-q-schools-lowe-promotion-opens-up-gm-vacancy-at-nicklaus-north-yeji-kwon-a-winner-in-florida

 

Here is an interesting quote:

 

“We are planning to tear down all the existing office buildings, pro shop, restaurant, because we are going to have a beautiful clubhouse that we have never seen before in Canada. It will have a spa and sauna. It will be amazing.”

 

I know of a similar golf course that is much closer to Vancouver and its suburbs that has a magnificent clubhouse with very nice spas in both the men's and lady's lockers.  Huge banquet facilities.  Two very nice golf courses that would take some money to bring back to pristine shape but the bones are there and the routing of both courses is great.

 

They must have taken a run at Swaneset and if they deemed it too expensive then they certainly do not have deep enough pockets to make the Pagoda project successful.

Very good point.   

 

I would actually enjoy seeing Swaneset brought back to a respectable facility.   I can't help but feel that all this money is somewhat wasted on Pagoda.

[Golfnuck]

18 hours ago, KBong said:

I think JKWG is backed by Korean money.

 

As per the article...lots of chirping.

They'll have big plans if they are going to make a more grandeur clubhouse in Canada and out build the one at Swaneset.

No discussion about the $1.5M in drainage work required???

I assume there is some adjacent land that was part of the purchase???...otherwise...where is the land to build a range???

They are gonna keep the current routing....WTH???

Huh....yes one can play until 945pm a month in and around June 22.....but if one tees off at 8pm.....then one would play holes 10-14 in the dark until they reached the last 4 holes with lights.

 

Yes...assuming they wanted to sell....Swaneset or even Northview would have been good targets for JKWG....but as you noted...JKWG's pockets might not be all that deep.

 

Again...assuming it wanted to sell...what about Pitt Meadows GC?

I think an $8M injection would make PMGC a somewhat ok private.

I believe PMGC is on a flood plain and this might prevent it from having ideal private course conditions?

When we had the Nov flood...PMGC remained closes for many many weeks.

 

 

Yes also my understanding that JKWG is Korean money.

 

I don't think Pitt Meadows is suitable as there are too many existing members.

 

Meadow Gardens Golf Club has better bones than Pitt Meadows but again there are too many existing members.

 

The only reason IMHO Swaneset may work is that with 36 holes, if they take both courses totally private, they could still sell a bunch of new memberships.

 

The other thing to note about Swaneset is the foundation has already been blasted out for a hotel / pool facility to the north of the club house.  My business associate is one of the original equity members there and the plans they had when it first opened in 1994 was fantastic ....  pools, equestrian centre, tennis courts, marina, vacation homes etc.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Golfnuck

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Golfnuck said:

I don't think Pitt Meadows is suitable as there are too many existing members.

The other thing to note about Swaneset is the foundation has already been blasted out for a hotel / pool facility to the north of the club house.  My business associate is one of the original equity members there and the plans they had when it first opened in 1994 was fantastic ....  pools, equestrian centre, tennis courts, marina, vacation homes etc.

 

Last year I played golf with a lady who told me her friend told her that PMGC had 800+ members (Covid)....obviously I don't know if it's true.

I told her that's just dumb and selfish of PMGC.

 

In the height of daylight hours....typically 9 hours of tee off times...therefore about 60 x 4some = 240 golfers.

Yes, not every member wants to play everyday....but that would mean 1/3 of the 800 would still struggle to find tee times and most golfers want to tee off before 1pm.

It would be a nightmare to golf on the weekends,

I heard that some members quit because of this.

 

I believe when Intrawest owned Swaneset....they wanted to build a hotel along the area right of the 1st tee/fairway off the Resort course.

The commercial development application was denied by the muni???

[Shushwap]

At the rate these course are raising prices well all need to win the lottery 

Was talking with a friend the other day and he was speaking with a local course.. He said they had 16k rounds played there pre pandemic and they weren't making money 

21...they had 32k rounds.. The plan for 22 is to raise prices and have a few less rounds beating up the course. 

I guess we'll see what 22 brings and what sort of price Increases we'll be looking at for 23 

[Phireside]

1 hour ago, Shushwap said:

At the rate these course are raising prices well all need to win the lottery 

Was talking with a friend the other day and he was speaking with a local course.. He said they had 16k rounds played there pre pandemic and they weren't making money 

21...they had 32k rounds.. The plan for 22 is to raise prices and have a few less rounds beating up the course. 

I guess we'll see what 22 brings and what sort of price Increases we'll be looking at for 23 

A few less rounds my backside. If they can fill the tee sheet at the raised rates, not a chance they turn away the all mighty dollar and you can't really blame them for it.

[KBong]

52 minutes ago, Phireside said:

A few less rounds my backside. If they can fill the tee sheet at the raised rates, not a chance they turn away the all mighty dollar and you can't really blame them for it.

[KBong]

2 hours ago, Shushwap said:

At the rate these course are raising prices well all need to win the lottery 

Was talking with a friend the other day and he was speaking with a local course.. He said they had 16k rounds played there pre pandemic and they weren't making money 

21...they had 32k rounds.. The plan for 22 is to raise prices and have a few less rounds beating up the course. 

I guess we'll see what 22 brings and what sort of price Increases we'll be looking at for 23 

Golf has always been expensive in the Kelowna area.

I understand pickleball isn't that expensive...just sayin.🤣

[Shushwap]

1 hour ago, KBong said:

Golf has always been expensive in the Kelowna area.

I understand pickleball isn't that expensive...just sayin.🤣

I may have to take up lawn bowling.. I assume  that's a little Cheaper 

[myspinonit]

17 hours ago, Shushwap said:

At the rate these course are raising prices well all need to win the lottery 

Was talking with a friend the other day and he was speaking with a local course.. He said they had 16k rounds played there pre pandemic and they weren't making money 

21...they had 32k rounds.. The plan for 22 is to raise prices and have a few less rounds beating up the course. 

I guess we'll see what 22 brings and what sort of price Increases we'll be looking at for 23 

I remarked to a friend a few years ago how expensive some of the courses were in Maui but there seemed to be very little play and empty parking lots (such as Old Blue, Makena, King Kameameha).   The other two Wailea courses remained busy and expensive.  One could have lunch at Kapalua and see hardly any tee-offs.

My friend said they would rather have for example  50 players paying $200 than 100 paying $100 strictly for less course maintenance.  

 

Edit: I just remembered that I had that discussion about not being busy with a staff person at Kapalua several years ago (not the pro shop) and he said basically the same thing and that only  a few groups might tee off all  morning.  I believe the peak time rack rate at Kapalua  was $285 US at the time. Too rich for my blood, though in retrospect I regret not playing it on one of my trips as not sure if I'll get back now. My pal and I almost did when CDN $ was close to par

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by myspinonit

[Shushwap]

The courses took a pounding up here last year.. I was talking with the super from one of the local courses and he said he put in 500 hours of overtime last year.. Trying to keep the course up.. Im sure they would all love to charge 500 a round and have only a few people out there.. At the rate the prices are going up.. They may get there in the next few years.. 

Fingers crossed things will be a little slower this year.. This having to book 3 weeks in advance to get a Tee time is insanity 

[Break68]

2 hours ago, myspinonit said:

I remarked to a friend a few years ago how expensive some of the courses were in Maui but there seemed to be very little play and empty parking lots (such as Old Blue, Makena, King Kameameha).   The other two Wailea courses remained busy and expensive.  One could have lunch at Kapalua and see hardly any tee-offs.

My friend said they would rather have for example  50 players paying $200 than 100 paying $100 strictly for less course maintenance.  

 

Edit: I just remembered that I had that discussion about not being busy with a staff person at Kapalua several years ago (not the pro shop) and he said basically the same thing and that only  a few groups might tee off all  morning.  I believe the peak time rack rate at Kapalua  was $285 US at the time. Too rich for my blood, though in retrospect I regret not playing it on one of my trips as not sure if I'll get back now. My pal and I almost did when CDN $ was close to par

 

 

I played Kapalua Plantation course December 19, 2021, it was $400 US each. My brother in-law and I paid it. Worth it, probably not but the course was in great shape. The 3-4 club wind all day just about made it unplayable. I was shocked when the pros playing the Sentry had no wind all week during the tournament. I don't think I would ever play the Plantation course again, way too expensive. When we were at Kapalua all the groups were 2-somes and the course was not busy at all.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Break68

[KBong]

9 hours ago, Break68 said:

I played Kapalua Plantation course December 19, 2021, it was $400 US each. My brother in-law and I paid it. Worth it, probably not but the course was in great shape. The 3-4 club wind all day just about made it unplayable. I was shocked when the pros playing the Sentry had no wind all week during the tournament. I don't think I would ever play the Plantation course again, way too expensive. When we were at Kapalua all the groups were 2-somes and the course was not busy at all.

That's $540 Cdn...WTH.

I was in Maui in 2007....I think it was $300 or $350 US.....no I didn't play.....but drove there to see it.

On TV...it looks like the ocean it nearby...it isn't...the ocean is quite far away from the course.

On TV...it also looks like there's a lot of area around the 18th green and the grandstands....the area is actually quite small in real life.

 

I used ezlinks.com...now teeoff.com....we played golf at some courses for $40 US each.

We also played the muni....not bad for $30 US???

 

Ya....it was crazy there was NO WIND at the Sentry and Sony this year.

 

Yup...the wind can be stupid there.

Downwind....I hit a 6 iron 210....normally 165 no wind.

Hit a 6 iron against the wind to downhill green 150 yds away...stupid ball only went 135.

 

We tried to drive to Hana...gave up after 5 km because of the stupid winding road.

 

We went to the Big Island in 2009...it's nice...but we preferred Maui....Maui is older and has continuous beaches....Big Island no...because it's the youngest of the islands.

[KBong]

10 hours ago, Shushwap said:

The courses took a pounding up here last year.. I was talking with the super from one of the local courses and he said he put in 500 hours of overtime last year.. Trying to keep the course up.. Im sure they would all love to charge 500 a round and have only a few people out there.. At the rate the prices are going up.. They may get there in the next few years.. 

Fingers crossed things will be a little slower this year.. This having to book 3 weeks in advance to get a Tee time is insanity 

You're getting SO RIPPED OFF in Kelowna.

I looked at some tier B or tier C courses for a cheap annual pass.

I looked at Sunset Ranch.

LMAO...WTF.....$99 green fee...what a joke.....looks like all the annual passes have been sold out since 2020.

I played it twice...1992 & 1998.

No way I'd pay $99.

 

Ha ha ha🤣....even Kelowna Springs will be $76 this summer...I played it in 1992 on a boys trip.....and the Bear & Kelowna Golf & CC and Sunset.

 

I played twilight at Burnaby Mtn on Fri and twilight today at Langara.....$31.50 & $25....in the good old days....we were paying twilight at the 3 Vanc muni's for $12-$16 in the winter and $24-$28 in the summer via the Redbook.

In 2021..... I got my twilight annual pass down to $8.50/rd🤣....I didn't renew it...maybe in Mar/April???...but there has been 3 price increases....it would be now $13.33/rd (57% price increase) with 3 price gouges.🤣

[Shushwap]

13 hours ago, KBong said:

You're getting SO RIPPED OFF in Kelowna.

I looked at some tier B or tier C courses for a cheap annual pass.

I looked at Sunset Ranch.

LMAO...WTF.....$99 green fee...what a joke.....looks like all the annual passes have been sold out since 2020.

I played it twice...1992 & 1998.

No way I'd pay $99.

 

Ha ha ha🤣....even Kelowna Springs will be $76 this summer...I played it in 1992 on a boys trip.....and the Bear & Kelowna Golf & CC and Sunset.

 

I played twilight at Burnaby Mtn on Fri and twilight today at Langara.....$31.50 & $25....in the good old days....we were paying twilight at the 3 Vanc muni's for $12-$16 in the winter and $24-$28 in the summer via the Redbook.

In 2021..... I got my twilight annual pass down to $8.50/rd🤣....I didn't renew it...maybe in Mar/April???...but there has been 3 price increases....it would be now $13.33/rd (57% price increase) with 3 price gouges.🤣

Kelowna golf pricing is getting so out of touch 

Tower ranch 149

Okanagan club 160

Kelowna springs 91.. It's a flat cow pasture nothing special 

Sunset ranch 99

Shadow ridge 59.. Dumpy course.. No money will be put in as the airport purchased it a few years ago to expand parking.. I heard there lease was extended a few more years 

Gallaghers  canyon 159

Black mountain 109 last year. I would expect a 10$ increase 

Two eagles 58...its a par 65.. They removed memberships all together.. 595 for a range pass lol

Shannon lake 75

People wonder why I travel out to the Shuswap to play golf.. I can't afford to play in Kelowna with these prices 

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Shushwap said:

Kelowna golf pricing is getting so out of touch 

Tower ranch 149

Okanagan club 160

Kelowna springs 91.. It's a flat cow pasture nothing special 

Sunset ranch 99

Shadow ridge 59.. Dumpy course.. No money will be put in as the airport purchased it a few years ago to expand parking.. I heard there lease was extended a few more years 

Gallaghers  canyon 159

Black mountain 109 last year. I would expect a 10$ increase 

Two eagles 58...its a par 65.. They removed memberships all together.. 595 for a range pass lol

Shannon lake 75

People wonder why I travel out to the Shuswap to play golf.. I can't afford to play in Kelowna with these prices 

How SAD & PATHETIC.

You forgot the $160 goat pasture....Harvest.

[Shushwap]

5 hours ago, KBong said:

How SAD & PATHETIC.

You forgot the $160 goat pasture....Harvest.

I knew I was missing something lol

Only played there a few times as a friend was a member 

[KBong]

56 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

I knew I was missing something lol

Only played there a few times as a friend was a member 

Shuswap is so far to drive.

 

I know it's still a bit of a trek...50 km....what about Summerland for an annual pass...$2200....especially if you carpool with others.

A bit pricey at $75..IMO.

I played it back in the 90's w/ a coupon....I didn't mind the course.

Open front 9...parkland back 9???

[Shushwap]

Never played Summerland.. I may have to take a run out that way 

[myspinonit]

I knew McCleery was involved with junior golf camps, but I didn't realize the extent for inner city kids. The video is 28 minutes,  but the first couple of minutes provides some good insights on the program.

By the way if you do have old clubs, cart  etc.,   I've never had any doubt that dropping them off at McCleery for their junior golf will find good homes.

 

[KBong]

1 hour ago, myspinonit said:

I knew McCleery was involved with junior golf camps, but I didn't realize the extent for inner city kids. The video is 28 minutes,  but the first couple of minutes provides some good insights on the program.

By the way if you do have old clubs, cart  etc.,   I've never had any doubt that dropping them off at McCleery for their junior golf will find good homes.

 

Does anyone know the conditions at McCleery and their greens?

I played Langara on Monday...fairly dry....greens ok.

Played Fraserview in mid Dec...green were AMAZING....fast (10 stimp??) and really smooth....not sure what they are like nowadays.

 

Someone please help me....Tom Monahan owns the pro shops at Langara & Fraserview....I can't remember the name...who was the previous owner?

I chatted with him at the golf show a few years ago....sounded disgruntled...I think the City didn't renew his contract.

I think he is/was now associated with the Links at Hampton Grove.

 

I've never played them but heard Hampton and Nico Wynd are nice 9 hole courses.

 

I like McCleery...ya gotta shape your tee shots....a good test from the blue tees.

IMO....the only weak holes are #2 & #18.

I like layout better than Marine Drive.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KBong

[myspinonit]

2 hours ago, KBong said:

https://www.earlsgolfacademy.com/golfacademy

 

Someone please help me....Tom Monahan owns the pro shops at Langara & Fraserview....I can't remember the name...who was the previous owner?

I chatted with him at the golf show a few years ago....sounded disgruntled...I think the City didn't renew his contract.

I think he is/was now associated with the Links at Hampton Grove.

 

I've never played them but heard Hampton and Nico Wynd are nice 9 hole courses.

 

I like McCleery...ya gotta shape your tee shots....a good test from the blue tees.

IMO....the only weak holes are #2 & #18.

I like layout better than Marine Drive.

It was Earl Francis for over 30 years  till 2008 per his LinkdIn.  Now has operates a Golf Academy in South Surrey. I remember Earl, but I didn't really play for about 10 years up to 2008  so I don't recall how things were under his  tenure.

 

I think Tom Monahan runs good shops and also has selected good staff that he seems to retain. Tom's company   also is responsible for Shadow Ridge in the Interior and Anmbleside Pitch and Putt and Gleneagles.  

 

The only Blue tee I like now at  McCleery  is on the 11th, and it's an anomoly IMO and I wish they put the  Tee 2 ("formerly White" ) on that side of the teebox regularly.   It plays a few yards longer from where the #2 usually is, but is easier to the extent that you get a much more open look at the hole. Sadly though I think Ive decided that I'm going to the  #3 tees  (formerly known as Red  tees) this year. Unless they come out with the #2/#3 Combo they  hoped to have ready for 2021 scorecards.

Edited January 19, 2022 by myspinonit