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Just got fit. Clubfitter suggested going 1 degree flat in Mizunos. I'm 6'1"


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Just got fit into some Mizuno JPX 900 Hot Metal Irons.

 

Clubfitter recommendations:

Length: Standard

Lie: 1* flat

Shaft: KBS C-Taper, Stiff

 

Regarding the lie angle. We did a dynamic lie test and the tape/marker suggested I get them bent a degree flat. I was also overdrawing/hooking everything. I am 6'1" and my static WTF suggest I go up a degree. My concern is that the clubs would be compensating for something silly I'm doing with my swing mechanics. Mizuno's already have flatter lies than average. I think it would be weird if I were to get some Taylormade's bent 4 degrees flat or something. I was hitting off of mats so maybe I wasn't coming in as steep as I would on the course? Should I just get them standard or should I go with the clubfitter's suggestion?

 

Also worth noting, I'm working on standing closer to the ball. I'm worried that going flatter will encourage me to stand farther away from the ball at setup.

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Just get them fit to your current swing. There are many ways to get the club onto the ball consistently so the lie angles being "off" from any over-generalized standard doesn't mean anything about the quality of your swing. Even if there is an issue and If you want to put an effort into changing your swing, that's fine and admirable - but you can always get the lie angles checked and changed again after you make the change.

 

P.s The lie board isn't the most accurate method for testing lie angles. A vertical line with a dry erase marker on the ball - and seeing what mark is left on the club face is way more accurate.

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general rule of thumb is to get lessons or do whatever changes you are going to make, then get fit. seems like you were fit but then plan on altering swing? if you arent sure, go with standard until you are done with "most" changes..... then you can always have them bent.

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general rule of thumb is to get lessons or do whatever changes you are going to make, then get fit.

 

Not really. Or more accurately, there are two completely different 'camps' on the subject with neither one really dominating any more then the other. Completely depends on who you ask.

 

We did do the dry erase marker method. No lie board.

 

Nice.

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general rule of thumb is to get lessons or do whatever changes you are going to make, then get fit. seems like you were fit but then plan on altering swing? if you arent sure, go with standard until you are done with "most" changes..... then you can always have them bent.

 

I'm aware but I think it's a chicken vs the egg scenario. In my situation, it turned out my current irons were a terrible fit. I was hitting Taylormade Burner HT irons. These were a Dick's exclusive offering back in 2011(?) "HT" standing for High Trajectory - which I definitely don't need. They had the "Superfast 85" stiff shafts in them. Turned out they were playing more like a regular flex and my dispersion was a joke. Was hitting everything sky high. My average swingspeed with a 6 iron is 90mph so these were just way to wobbly. If I try to slow it down I get all out of sync, so hitting the KBS C-Taper's was an amazing feeling.

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general rule of thumb is to get lessons or do whatever changes you are going to make, then get fit.

 

Not really. Or more accurately, there are two completely different 'camps' on the subject with neither one really dominating any more then the other. Completely depends on who you ask.

 

We did do the dry erase marker method. No lie board.

 

Nice.

 

true. i would rather just do one club alteration, after lessons - or youd have to mod the clubs twice. one can definitely see both methods, really up to preference.

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

 

Very roughly estimate would be 2-5 yards in directional accuracy for each degree the lie angle is off.

 

true. i would rather just do one club alteration, after lessons - or youd have to mod the clubs twice. one can definitely see both methods, really up to preference.

 

It's not when you take the lesson that matters, but rather how long it actually takes to implement the changes. The last change I've been working on has been a work in progress for several months, longer then I would want to wait. But that's where everyone has to make their own decision on priorities. And that only applies to lie angle. Most other fitted specs wont change much due to most swing changes.

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

 

Very roughly estimate would be 2-5 yards in directional accuracy for each degree the lie angle is off.

 

true. i would rather just do one club alteration, after lessons - or youd have to mod the clubs twice. one can definitely see both methods, really up to preference.

 

It's not when you take the lesson that matters, but rather how long it actually takes to implement the changes. The last change I've been working on has been a work in progress for several months, longer then I would want to wait. But that's where everyone has to make their own decision on priorities. And that only applies to lie angle. Most other fitted specs wont change much due to most swing changes.

 

1* means a few feet off on a driver but more on a wedge. As loft increases, lie matters more. 1* lie variation on a 10* driver means squat. On a 52* wedge it means like 10-15 feet off.

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it’s a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don’t sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it’s a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don’t sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

 

This is false. Static address does not dictate your dynamic lie angle. Handle raise through impact and toe droop influence this greatly.

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I was fitted recent by top 100 guy and I am 6'1" 37.5 WTF. He fit me in 1/2 over (38.5 5 iron) at Mizuno std lies in PW to 1.5 flat in longer irons.

 

I worried about the same thing - shouldn't I be like two up? Is this masking a weird fault of mine? He says it doesn't it is just my swing. So, maybe not so off.

 
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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

Yes- especially swinging 90mph

No - not for a 19 handicapper.

 

For a low single digits, yes.

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

 

Very roughly estimate would be 2-5 yards in directional accuracy for each degree the lie angle is off.

 

true. i would rather just do one club alteration, after lessons - or youd have to mod the clubs twice. one can definitely see both methods, really up to preference.

 

It's not when you take the lesson that matters, but rather how long it actually takes to implement the changes. The last change I've been working on has been a work in progress for several months, longer then I would want to wait. But that's where everyone has to make their own decision on priorities. And that only applies to lie angle. Most other fitted specs wont change much due to most swing changes.

 

1* means a few feet off on a driver but more on a wedge. As loft increases, lie matters more. 1* lie variation on a 10* driver means squat. On a 52* wedge it means like 10-15 feet off.

 

Would you mind expanding on this ?

 

I (think I) understand how a more lofted club, like a wedge, "tilted" either way, would appear to give a more crooked shot than say, a drive, but surely the length of the shot, as pure geometry would suggest, would also account for a longer club to be just as (or not as much ?) wide of the target when the ball comes down, no ?

 

Basic geometry suggests a wedge is going about 130 yards or so, a driver twice that.

 

At 130 yards, a straight shot 1 degree off line is about 7 feet wide of target. At 260 yards, it's about twice that.

 

Or does 1 degree of lie angle on a 45 degree wedge start a lot further off line than 1 degree of lie angle on a 9 degree driver ? i.e. not directly 1-for-1 ?

 

TIA

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Callaway Epic Flash SZ Triple Diamond 9.0 Tour AD TP-6 Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Vokey SM8 56/08 (Thanks WRX !!!)

Seemore MT7 Face Balanced (Today)

Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow/Black

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Very roughly estimate would be 2-5 yards in directional accuracy for each degree the lie angle is off.

 

1* means a few feet off on a driver but more on a wedge. As loft increases, lie matters more. 1* lie variation on a 10* driver means squat. On a 52* wedge it means like 10-15 feet off.

 

Isn't 15 feet == 5 yards ;-)

 

Yes it does vary - but remember the lie angle being off provides both an angular inaccuracy as well as some additional side spin and therefore ball curvature. The longer the club, the smaller that angle, and the shorter the club the bigger the angle. But the longer clubs go much further along that line. There is a difference, but it's smaller then you might think and even the driver will be off by a few yards.

 

And if you want to believe Tutelman (he did the math, I didn't), the bigger misses occur in the middle of the iron set and not with the wedges (bigger relative side spin added).

 

Now if you want to argue that a couple yards off with a driver is "squat". That doesn't bother me in the least as I know it's meaningless in the context of my driver accuracy. But that wasn't the point of my answer. It was to give actual numbers and let each person decide for themselves whether it was important or not.

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I'm only 5"10 but have always been standard lie with every set I have been fitted for, apart from Mizuno. My fitter recommend 2 degrees flat, they were terrible.

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it’s a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don’t sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

 

This is false. Static address does not dictate your dynamic lie angle. Handle raise through impact and toe droop influence this greatly.

 

Ya shaft droop is the reason the toe needs to be up. Dynamic fitting isn’t the be all end all it’s cracked up to be.

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it's a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don't sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

 

How the toe sits as address has little to nothing to due with how the club head hits the ball. Do not adjust lie based on address.

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

Yes- especially swinging 90mph

No - not for a 19 handicapper.

 

For a low single digits, yes.

Disagree- low single is good enough to adjust- bogey golfer needs all the help in the world

 

Disagree - 19 handicapper doesn't hit it in the SS with an appropriate face angle often enough to make a difference. Low handicapper does.

Want more posters to read and reply ? "[EMBRACE] THE LINE BREAK"

 

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Triple Diamond 9.0 Tour AD TP-6 Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Vokey SM8 56/08 (Thanks WRX !!!)

Seemore MT7 Face Balanced (Today)

Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow/Black

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it's a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don't sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

 

This is false. Static address does not dictate your dynamic lie angle. Handle raise through impact and toe droop influence this greatly.

 

Ya shaft droop is the reason the toe needs to be up. Dynamic fitting isn't the be all end all it's cracked up to be.

 

Huh? A dynamic lie angle fitting will account for toe droop. Can you make a general statement that most people need to have the toe up at address a bit? Sure, but you can't fit someone precisely without doing a dynamic fitting.

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When u Set the club down like u would at address does the club look to you like the toe is slightly off the ground. Do this on a flat surface even a hard surface. If the toe is down they are too flat. If it's a little up ur good to go. Fixing lie angles is easy enough anyways so don't sweat it

too much if ur having trouble hitting them just get them adjusted. Im all about tinkering til u find what works.

 

This is false. Static address does not dictate your dynamic lie angle. Handle raise through impact and toe droop influence this greatly.

 

Ya shaft droop is the reason the toe needs to be up. Dynamic fitting isn't the be all end all it's cracked up to be.

 

Huh? A dynamic lie angle fitting will account for toe droop. Can you make a general statement that most people need to have the toe up at address a bit? Sure, but you can't fit someone precisely without doing a dynamic fitting.

 

Why not? Just looking at someone and their setup if they have their hands low they need to be flatter hands high more upright. It’s a good place to start and then possibly tweak from there. It avoids the hitter manipulating the club and their setup based off of faulty specs. When I pick up any iron and look down at I can tell if it fits my specs or Is at least close.

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Just got fit into some Mizuno JPX 900 Hot Metal Irons.

 

Clubfitter recommendations:

Length: Standard

Lie: 1* flat

Shaft: KBS C-Taper, Stiff

 

Regarding the lie angle. We did a dynamic lie test and the tape/marker suggested I get them bent a degree flat. I was also overdrawing/hooking everything. I am 6'1" and my static WTF suggest I go up a degree. My concern is that the clubs would be compensating for something silly I'm doing with my swing mechanics. Mizuno's already have flatter lies than average. I think it would be weird if I were to get some Taylormade's bent 4 degrees flat or something. I was hitting off of mats so maybe I wasn't coming in as steep as I would on the course? Should I just get them standard or should I go with the clubfitter's suggestion?

 

Also worth noting, I'm working on standing closer to the ball. I'm worried that going flatter will encourage me to stand farther away from the ball at setup.

 

My two thoughts:

Your swing mechanics has you shallowing the club on the downswing, not coming in steep, thus the benefit from a flat lie.

Length of club not lie angle dictates distance from ball more in setup.

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