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Just got fit. Clubfitter suggested going 1 degree flat in Mizunos. I'm 6'1"


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Just got fit into some Mizuno JPX 900 Hot Metal Irons.

 

Clubfitter recommendations:

Length: Standard

Lie: 1* flat

Shaft: KBS C-Taper, Stiff

 

Regarding the lie angle. We did a dynamic lie test and the tape/marker suggested I get them bent a degree flat. I was also overdrawing/hooking everything. I am 6'1" and my static WTF suggest I go up a degree. My concern is that the clubs would be compensating for something silly I'm doing with my swing mechanics. Mizuno's already have flatter lies than average. I think it would be weird if I were to get some Taylormade's bent 4 degrees flat or something. I was hitting off of mats so maybe I wasn't coming in as steep as I would on the course? Should I just get them standard or should I go with the clubfitter's suggestion?

 

Also worth noting, I'm working on standing closer to the ball. I'm worried that going flatter will encourage me to stand farther away from the ball at setup.

 

 

1* flat in some clubs is fine, very common. Some of mine are 1* flat, some are not.

 

What does this mean "Mizuno's already have flatter lies than average."? I've never heard this before. They are however, shorter than other manufacturers which makes me wonder why a guy who is 6'1" didn't get at least a quarter inch added to the clubs. But then again, if you have long arms or short legs then it may be the right length for you. But it does make me wonder...

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

 

Very roughly estimate would be 2-5 yards in directional accuracy for each degree the lie angle is off.

 

true. i would rather just do one club alteration, after lessons - or youd have to mod the clubs twice. one can definitely see both methods, really up to preference.

 

It's not when you take the lesson that matters, but rather how long it actually takes to implement the changes. The last change I've been working on has been a work in progress for several months, longer then I would want to wait. But that's where everyone has to make their own decision on priorities. And that only applies to lie angle. Most other fitted specs wont change much due to most swing changes.

 

This is a gross over simplification because it ignores the ability of the player to adjust to various lies. When demo days occur at my club I'll go out and hit a variety of clubs from a variety of manufacturers. I find I can hit target with any of them even though they very significantly in lie angle. How is this possible? Just sole the club behind the ball and stand to the handle. Before club fitting became a business that's how everyone did it.

 

Steve

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P.s The lie board isn't the most accurate method for testing lie angles. A vertical line with a dry erase marker on the ball - and seeing what mark is left on the club face is way more accurate.

 

We did do the dry erase marker method. No lie board.

That's the only way I check lie angle these days. Never consider using the lie angle board.

 

Does 1 degree really make a difference?

Yes it absolutely does.

TaylorMade SIM2 9° (2 clicks higher/upright, 44.5”) Graphite Design Tour AD VR6s
TaylorMade SIM2 Max 3HL 16.5° Graphite Design Tour AD HD7s
Ping G425 7w 20.5° (+3/4") Oban Kiyoshi Purple 75s
Callaway Mavrik Pro 4 hybrid Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 8s
TaylorMade SIM Max OS 5 Iron (3° weak to blend) KBS TGI
TaylorMade P790 19 6-PW (1° strong) Steelfiber FC
Titleist 46° F Grind (bent to 48°) AMT Black Oynx S300
Titleist 54° D Grind ( AMT Black Oynx S300
TaylorMade MyHiToe Blacked out 60°  KBS $Taper 120 Black
Scotty Cameron Select 2020 Newport 2 34" KBS Tour CT White Pearl

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Just to throw another issue on the table. I'm 6'2" and also at 38.5" 5i. I am also at 1.5* flat through the whole set. The reason, I was born with legs length for a shorter person, 31" inseam. Geometry took a while to figure out, but it works just fine.

 

That’s something I didn’t think about! I have a 31” inseam too.

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Does 1 degree really make a difference?

Yes- especially swinging 90mph

No - not for a 19 handicapper.

 

For a low single digits, yes.

Disagree- low single is good enough to adjust- bogey golfer needs all the help in the world

 

Disagree - 19 handicapper doesn't hit it in the SS with an appropriate face angle often enough to make a difference. Low handicapper does.

Why do they have to hit the sweet spot all the time for lie angle to matter? they consistently hit it somewhere and that’s what lie angle can help to achieve. Let’s say they’re a toe striker you can fit that and lie angle may help fix to get closer to center

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Just to throw another issue on the table. I'm 6'2" and also at 38.5" 5i. I am also at 1.5* flat through the whole set. The reason, I was born with legs length for a shorter person, 31" inseam. Geometry took a while to figure out, but it works just fine.

 

That’s something I didn’t think about! I have a 31” inseam too.

 

 

Read: http://www.golfalot.com/buyingguides/shafts.aspx

 

The importance of length, according to research, is extreme: Ball impact that is 0.5 inches off-centre equates to a 7% loss of carry distance. An impact that is 1 inch off-centre equates to a 14% loss of carry distance. So, while longer shafts can certainly provide greater overall distance, the key to choosing the right driver is finding the longest one that provides a repeating, solid hit.

 

The following table shows what length of shafts you should consider for certain heights. If the crease where your wrist and hand meet to the floor is:

 

29-32 inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 37 inches

33-34 inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 37 1/2 inches

35-36 inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 38 inches

37-38 inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 38 1/2 inches

39-40 inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 39 inches

41 or more inches, your irons should be based on a 5-iron length of 39 1/2 inches

The length of the shaft is measured from the top of the grip to the base of the heel of the club as it lies on the ground.

 

This ^ works x me

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No - not for a 19 handicapper.

 

For a low single digits, yes.

Disagree- low single is good enough to adjust- bogey golfer needs all the help in the world

 

Disagree - 19 handicapper doesn't hit it in the SS with an appropriate face angle often enough to make a difference. Low handicapper does.

Why do they have to hit the sweet spot all the time for lie angle to matter? they consistently hit it somewhere and that's what lie angle can help to achieve. Let's say they're a toe striker you can fit that and lie angle may help fix to get closer to center

 

Toe strikers generally have clubs that are too short. Heel strikers too long. Lie angle is the least of their problems.

 

I didn't say "all the time". I said they didn't hit it "often enough". There IS a difference. I'm a 5 and I estimate I hit my irons "flush" about 50% of the time. I hit it "acceptably", that is to say within the effective SS where there is little effect on the overall shot, about 30-40% of the time. That leaves about 10-20% of the time where "nothing" is really going to help.

 

"They consistently hit it somewhere" ? That's my point. They (high handicappers) usually have no idea where it's going.

 

I'd say (as above) I'm a "decent" ball striker. I seldom hit the ball right on line (say 3 feet either side) of the flag. A "perfect" lie angle, even for me, would help as much as it might hurt (not having it) so long as I hit the SS.

 

A 19 hits it flush what ? 10-20% of the time ? Within the effective SS, what ? Another 10-20% of the time ? And directly where he's aiming, what ? Once, maybe twice a round ? If he hits to the right of the flag and his lie angle is perfect he's worse off than if his lie angle was accidentally "too upright" (which in this case would have helped him). Same with missing left. If his lie angle was wrong, to the "flat side" it would help his shot, not hurt it.

 

Point being that lie angle, unless it is WAY off (more than about 2 degrees) is not going to make any difference for a 19 handicapper.

 

This is why I say "get lessons first". Learn how to swing the club properly. Then get fit. Why get fit for a poor swing and then take lessons only to have to get fit again (apologies to the others who said that first) ?

 

So no, 1 degree does not make that much of a difference to a 19 handicapper (which was the question we both responded to after all). That player has way more problems to solve than worrying about 1 degree.

 

Just one person's opinion.

Want more posters to read and reply ? "[EMBRACE] THE LINE BREAK"

 

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Just got fit into some Mizuno JPX 900 Hot Metal Irons.

 

Clubfitter recommendations:

Length: Standard

Lie: 1* flat

Shaft: KBS C-Taper, Stiff

 

Regarding the lie angle. We did a dynamic lie test and the tape/marker suggested I get them bent a degree flat. I was also overdrawing/hooking everything. I am 6'1" and my static WTF suggest I go up a degree. My concern is that the clubs would be compensating for something silly I'm doing with my swing mechanics. Mizuno's already have flatter lies than average. I think it would be weird if I were to get some Taylormade's bent 4 degrees flat or something. I was hitting off of mats so maybe I wasn't coming in as steep as I would on the course? Should I just get them standard or should I go with the clubfitter's suggestion?

 

Also worth noting, I'm working on standing closer to the ball. I'm worried that going flatter will encourage me to stand farther away from the ball at setup.

 

Since clubs both can and should be adjusted, its really no big deal if you get them 1 flat or standard, and your thinking of maybe a bit steeper AoA out on grass is not that far out, so maybe standard is whats right, a real life test will tell.

 

Be aware of what a wrong lie angle does, its tilting the spin axis on the ball, so 1 "off" on lie angle makes a tilt off 3* on the ball.

Thats exactly the same as a face angle 1 closed or 1 open to path makes, its not more than that, so a variety in face to path can make just as much harm as wrong lie angles, but its easier to eliminate the lie angle problem than the players wrist action, so we should eliminate that problem when we can.

 

The importance of "correct" lie angles is most important in the short clubs, simply because they are used for higher precision shots than the long, and the distance the ball travels seems to equalize the "off target" measurement, so we can as a rule of thumb say 1* "off" on lie angle, makes a shot 3 yards off target line, and thats more or less correct for all clubs in the bag (except the putter). If we use the driver, 3 yards to the left or right does not matter, but on a approach it might be the difference between 1 or 2 puts if we get the distance right.

 

During the test you was hooking, but for all we know, a flat lie caused you to compensate with a more closed face angle ...= Hook.

 

So, just have them delivered as you like, bring them out on real grass and try them off, then adjust if needed...thats how it should be done anyway, since we cant trust that the OEM delivers the clubs on your wanted specs, one or more clubs WILL be off from your order, no matter if you order standard, flat or upright.

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