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Understood. Which is why it's so bizarre that nearly every other piece of downswing advice seems to consist of ways to shallow the shaft which all good players seem to do! For me, I feel that JB's instruction will help correct my previous misunderstanding that the swing should be around, not up, which often results in below plane downswing and lack of compression.

 

Shallowing the shaft happens naturally through proper sequence (ie: not opening the shoulders too early on the downswing) and centrifugal force, but trying to intentionally shallow it will get you under the plane and stuck on the downswing.

 

And cause you years of thin shots and mishits

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Even a strong player is going to struggle playing from under the plane.... I'm 6'3" and 220 lbs and work out every day and I have no chance playing from under the plane. Being stuck to me is one of the worst feelings you can have in the golf swing, it's so tough to save a shot from there, you are either going to flip it or block it.

 

JB always tells me to feel like right shoulder is higher than left on downswing. Cant feel over the top enough.

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Been working on shifting weight to left toe in the through swing. I bit awkward at first but as I got used to it I felt like I couldn't move laterally, it's as if the shaft would work naturally from inside out without doing anything to achieve that. I think in the end when you start working on the JB swing you definitely focus a lot on weight shift, which is fundamental in golf, no matter who your teacher or swing reference is. Like Rocco Mediate says on the Golf Channel vid with JB, I had been narrow and around for enough time to become a way below average golfer. I do feel now I can hit it solid with a simple athletic motion. I can go for it and hit it sound, at least if I look at the ball in the stance. And my wedge game is now sharp again after years and years of yipping. I've had my ups and downs going fully JB, but thanks to Speedster I could get the patience to see how hard work and focus can make a difference. Keep up this thread, it's simply amazing.

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Been working on shifting weight to left toe in the through swing. I bit awkward at first but as I got used to it I felt like I couldn't move laterally, it's as if the shaft would work naturally from inside out without doing anything to achieve that. I think in the end when you start working on the JB swing you definitely focus a lot on weight shift, which is fundamental in golf, no matter who your teacher or swing reference is. Like Rocco Mediate says on the Golf Channel vid with JB, I had been narrow and around for enough time to become a way below average golfer. I do feel now I can hit it solid with a simple athletic motion. I can go for it and hit it sound, at least if I look at the ball in the stance. And my wedge game is now sharp again after years and years of yipping. I've had my ups and downs going fully JB, but thanks to Speedster I could get the patience to see how hard work and focus can make a difference. Keep up this thread, it's simply amazing.

 

Cool to hear ur results are good. The thing i struggle with the “goto toe” is feeling like its only my chest moving and my legs go dead. When I try to be “up” to hit down i dont feel like im going to the toe.

 

How do u incorporate those two?

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Even a strong player is going to struggle playing from under the plane.... I'm 6'3" and 220 lbs and work out every day and I have no chance playing from under the plane. Being stuck to me is one of the worst feelings you can have in the golf swing, it's so tough to save a shot from there, you are either going to flip it or block it.

 

I am struggling with width on backswing when I fold the elbows

 

When i do the center drill i can see width, but it i fold elbows things feel colapsed. How do u have width and fold elbows? I see Harry Vardon was torally collapsed arms 90* c0ck of elbows disnt seemed to concerned

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Even a strong player is going to struggle playing from under the plane.... I'm 6'3" and 220 lbs and work out every day and I have no chance playing from under the plane. Being stuck to me is one of the worst feelings you can have in the golf swing, it's so tough to save a shot from there, you are either going to flip it or block it.

 

One if my fav swings is Calcavecchia. I know he worked w Kostis but seemed keenly aware how to release and hit it a mile power fade

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Even a strong player is going to struggle playing from under the plane.... I'm 6'3" and 220 lbs and work out every day and I have no chance playing from under the plane. Being stuck to me is one of the worst feelings you can have in the golf swing, it's so tough to save a shot from there, you are either going to flip it or block it.

 

JB always tells me to feel like right shoulder is higher than left on downswing. Cant feel over the top enough.

 

DUDE......this is very confusing what you just said. If the right shoulder is higher on the downswing.......wouldnt an OTT occur?

 

Been working on shifting weight to left toe in the through swing. I bit awkward at first but as I got used to it I felt like I couldn't move laterally, it's as if the shaft would work naturally from inside out without doing anything to achieve that. I think in the end when you start working on the JB swing you definitely focus a lot on weight shift, which is fundamental in golf, no matter who your teacher or swing reference is. Like Rocco Mediate says on the Golf Channel vid with JB, I had been narrow and around for enough time to become a way below average golfer. I do feel now I can hit it solid with a simple athletic motion. I can go for it and hit it sound, at least if I look at the ball in the stance. And my wedge game is now sharp again after years and years of yipping. I've had my ups and downs going fully JB, but thanks to Speedster I could get the patience to see how hard work and focus can make a difference. Keep up this thread, it's simply amazing.

 

Cool to hear ur results are good. The thing i struggle with the "goto toe" is feeling like its only my chest moving and my legs go dead. When I try to be "up" to hit down i dont feel like im going to the toe.

 

How do u incorporate those two?

 

 

Im with you on this.....Its almost like I cant feel the weight going forward and I feel the upper body turning only.

Would someone to break down why I have this feeling of NO LEGS in simple terms.....I just don't get it.

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Cool to hear ur results are good. The thing i struggle with the "goto toe" is feeling like its only my chest moving and my legs go dead. When I try to be "up" to hit down i dont feel like im going to the toe.

 

How do u incorporate those two?

 

Are you keeping the flex in the left knee when you go to the toe on the follow through? If your downswing is steep, it will be harder to get to the toe. I try to keep my right shoulder high on the downswing, but I think you can come OTT too much, while I would much rather error on the top side of the plane versus underneath the plane, I also don't want to come over the top. FOR ME, I try to keep my right shoulder and right hip higher on the downswing while also "feeling" like my shoulders stay closed longer on the downswing. I used to fight opening my shoulders too soon on the downswing and then I would hit week cuts (glancing blows). When my shoulders stay closed longer in the downswing, it makes it easier to go to my left toe and hit a draw.

 

How do u fold at elbows and keep width? I can only do it if left arm stays extended from lat and right arm folds up. I just dont see how BOTH elbows fold and maintain width. I never read in his book fold both elbows either so where dis this verbage ever come from? Rocco?

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How do u fold at elbows and keep width? I can only do it if left arm stays extended from lat and right arm folds up. I just dont see how BOTH elbows fold and maintain width. I never read in his book fold both elbows either so where dis this verbage ever come from? Rocco?

 

I don't try to fold my elbows, instead I make many practice swings with the The Golf Swing Shirt which doesn't make me fold my right elbows correctly. It helps me keep both elbows pointing to my hips and NOT running away from my body. It's easy to work on left connection and then get disconnected in the right arm where the right elbow works away from the target and body too much without folding correctly. I used to struggle with this and it gets you steep and across the line at the top then makes you have to work too hard to naturally shallow the club out on the downswing. The Golf Swing Shirt helped me get my elbows in the position I want them in which is connect in the left arm and free in the right, not trapped and not running away from my body.

 

It's a lot easier to swing up to swing down when the elbows, especially the right one, are working and folding correctly IMO.

 

Do you think an impact ball held between the forearms is as effective as the swing shirt?

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No, not a fan.... it gets me too around. I think you are misinterpreting the elbows. I've never heard JB say to "fold" the elbows, but I have heard him say to "hinge" from the elbows versus cocking the wrists.... hinging at the elbows and folding the elbows are two different things.

 

Thanks, altho don't see how that would get you around. Makes me go up. Care to elaborate on the difference between hinging and folding of the elbows? Mine only move one way with contraction of the biceps!

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Ever tried presetting this position and swinging? Seems like it would eliminate a lot of BS in the backswing :search:

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No, not a fan.... it gets me too around. I think you are misinterpreting the elbows. I’ve never heard JB say to “fold” the elbows, but I have heard him say to “hinge” from the elbows versus cocking the wrists.... hinging at the elbows and folding the elbows are two different things.

 

I dont see any hinging @ left elbow with Sutton. Rocco in the Vharness and also with Jimmy talk about it. Never heard until Rocco came on board.

 

 

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No, not a fan.... it gets me too around. I think you are misinterpreting the elbows. I’ve never heard JB say to “fold” the elbows, but I have heard him say to “hinge” from the elbows versus cocking the wrists.... hinging at the elbows and folding the elbows are two different things.

 

2:20 in video talks about hinging @ elbows

Never heard of this in book or before Rocco.

 

This to me totally ruins width. Sutton on the ither hand is pure connection with right arm folding up into the triangle

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

This is my swing : I already struggle maintaining width in downswing. If I folding or hinged my left elbow I think it would add or complicate things but thats why I am trying to understand what JB is really saying.

 

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

Explain this???? Totally lack of width. Never seen a good ball striker do this since Harry Vardon

 

 

Folding/ Hinging elbows like this makes me want to go to a different teacher. I personally think we have some bad interpretations of soft arms.

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

Explain this???? Totally lack of width. Never seen a good ball striker do this since Harry Vardon

 

 

Folding/ Hinging elbows like this makes me want to go to a different teacher. I personally think we have some bad interpretations of soft arms.

 

Agreed. I've seen that clip. Think he must be exaggerating left elbow fold because there's no way that any good player does that.

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

This is my swing : I already struggle maintaining width in downswing. If I folding or hinged my left elbow I think it would add or complicate things but thats why I am trying to understand what JB is really saying.

 

Lots of hogan analysis going wide on back swing ....to narrow on the transition while springing the shaft...to wide at the ball

 

Where some elements of GG swing comes in....remove a arrow from a quiver feel to regain width and move left elbow back toward straighter by impact, not a lot of speed in hammering a nail with a straight left elbow

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

Explain this???? Totally lack of width. Never seen a good ball striker do this since Harry Vardon

 

 

Folding/ Hinging elbows like this makes me want to go to a different teacher. I personally think we have some bad interpretations of soft arms.

 

Agreed. I've seen that clip. Think he must be exaggerating left elbow fold because there's no way that any good player does that.

 

Even JB taks to Kratzert about firming up left arm in the first 5 seconds. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BDvgmFXDTyM

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Agreed. Just don't see the difference between hinging and folding. To me the terms are interchangeable. T

 

This is my swing : I already struggle maintaining width in downswing. If I folding or hinged my left elbow I think it would add or complicate things but thats why I am trying to understand what JB is really saying.

 

Lots of hogan analysis going wide on back swing ....to narrow on the transition while springing the shaft...to wide at the ball

 

Where some elements of GG swing comes in....remove a arrow from a quiver feel to regain width and move left elbow back toward straighter by impact, not a lot of speed in hammering a nail with a straight left elbow

 

Hold nail with left and hammer the sheet outta it with the right.

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Am I crazy or does this sound exactly like what JB wants. From "Afternoons with Mr. Hogan" by Jody Vasquez. I know I've read where a lot of people dismiss him. Considering his amateur resume and his business resume I believe every word he says. Plus if this isn't JB, then I'm lost lol. I will say what Hogan or anyone else feels what they're doing my not be exactly what's happening But Hogan definitely used his right leg for weight shift and hitting down and through IMO. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

"The Secret is the correct functioning of the right leg, with emphasis on maintaining the angle of the right knee on the back and forward swings. Combined with a slight cupping of the left wrist, it produces optimum balance and control and allows you to apply as much speed and power as you wish.

 

Not knowing the implications of that statement, the first question I asked Hogan was why I didn't read about his right-knee position being such an important part of his swing in the Five Lessons book. He put his hands on his hips and said, "I'm not telling them this!" I could only guess that by "them" he was referring to his fellow-competitors. Hogan was still playing competitively at the time he wrote the book.

 

My next question was about his famous cupped left wrist. Hogan had explained in Life magazine that his Secret was cupping his wrist at the top of the swing so the wrist joint was bent slightly inward. Hogan was truthful when he emphasized the importance of the cupped left wrist, but as he revealed to me that day, it was only part of the story. Hogan explained to me that the left wrist was cupped because it was the only position the wrist could assume based on the position of his right knee.

 

To better illustrate all this, Hogan put me in his address position and then in his position at the top of his backswing. With a twinkle in his eye, he then asked me a simple question: Could I maintain the right-knee position I had at address when I reached the top of the backswing and feel totally comfortable without cupping my wrist? I couldn't. Hogan explained that he braced his right knee before and after he took the club away from the ball, thus allowing his takeaway to be made with perfect balance. He maintained that right-knee position from address all the way to the top of the backswing. This allowed him to set the club at the top of his backswing and control his transition from backswing to downswing, all the while maintaining his balance. He said the right knee could sway a bit from left to right, but it should never straighten, especially as you move to the top of the backswing.

 

 

That's the whole point, the first half of the Secret. If you hold the right knee in a flexed position, and your left wrist is straight or bowed outward so the wrist joint is exposed to the sky (the opposite of cupped inward), you will have the sensation you are leaning forward on your toes. You will have the distinct feeling of "coming over the top," even though you still are on your backswing. You have lost your balance. It's over, my friend.

 

I should add, however, that for Hogan, the backswing was merely a preface to the real issue: the delivery of the club back to the ball. His entire goal was to return the club to the ball with balance and control so he could produce the type of ball flight he desired. The key to his downswing was that he "ran his right knee at the ball."

 

What does this mean? On the downswing, Hogan's first movement was to push the knee inward to the left and toward the ball. This resulted in a lateral shifting and opening of the left hip. His only thought had to be the right knee dropping in at the ball. He referred to it that day as "running at the ball.""

 

"Hogan explained that the harder he wanted to hit the ball, the faster he ran his right knee at the ball. That's why his hips unwound so fast on the downswing. In his mind, he ran his right knee to the ball, while feeling a complete sense of balance and control. For him, the feeling of his knee was the only thing that mattered -- he forgot about everything else in his body during that part of the swing.

 

By running the right knee at the ball, Hogan was able to generate terrific speed in his lower body. His right knee moved so emphatically to the left that on full shots, the knee would sometimes appear to overtake his left knee on the follow-through. The speed was adjustable, however. By running his knee at the ball at different speeds, he was able to control the amount of force he expended through impact. This was why he was able to control the ball's distance so precisely.

 

When you attempt a swing using the Secret, key the downswing by pushing your right knee inward both to the left and toward the ball. You'll find that your upper body will follow the action of your lower body quite nicely. You should feel distinct pressure on the inside of your right foot, as though you are actually pushing off that foot. The rest should happen automatically, though I'd add one last note of caution. Make sure you monitor your left knee. You don't want to straighten it too soon; it will cause you to hang back on your right side, and the ball can go anywhere. You merely want to straighten your left leg sufficiently for it to absorb the transfer of weight from your right side. It should never be locked or rigid."

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

Great drill to get the feel of triangle at too, I agree. Im still tryn to figure out how to do it with width not collapsing

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A great way to simplify and understand the elbows is to address the ball, hinge the club up vertically so the shaft is touching the forehead, then coil behind the ball to the top of the backswing while maintaining your connection.

 

M Calcavecchia does that nicely. Club disects perfectly!

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