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P.S. > @DonRSD said:

> Does anyone follow JB 100% with his teachings, or do most incorporate JB swing thoughts into their current swings?

 

 

I do all of his principles to the best of my understanding and ability.

 

I see this as a method, not a set of tips to pick and choose from. JB claims that anybody can do it. Anybody includes me. It is the most thought-out and clearly explained method that I have ever come across; nothing is left unanswered, or is ambiguous. I understand mechanical principles in depth, and there isn't a mechanical false note in anything that Ballard teaches. So, I figure, why not try to do the whole megillah? Why leave out pieces of the puzzle?

 

I have been working on my own on Ballard principles for over five years - going solo is not recommended if there is a Ballard instructor in the neighborhood. Fortunately I am tenacious and have an interest in detail. I don’t care what the method, golf is a brutally difficult game to play well. It takes a huge amount of study and hard work for mortals like me.

 

I am going to be 75 in a few days. I can do this swing. Before Ballard I used to be a 4. Now I am up to over 5. But not because of ball striking. My ball striking has never been as good. I could be scratch for the courses I play if the only thing that mattered was distance and direction off the tee. It’s my short game. Lack of focus. I really get excited about going to the range and trying new ways of doing the principles and seeing if I can take them to the course. I am out of balance. I know it. I’ll be putting more focus on my short game early next week. I think. Maybe... In the meantime, I have an early tee time tomorrow and can’t wait. I want to shoot my age one more time before the odometer ticks over. Tomorrow could be the day! ;-)

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100% ‘r here. When I venture out into the malaise of controversial swings methods....stack and tilt, A swing, square to square, Bertholy Method. I quicky get reminded how fortunate I am to have been working Ballard principles since 1987

 

 

 

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I have not had the privilege of a Ballard lesson. I have read and misunderstood the book and have watched his video. That said, I gained much more from Speedster's first post on this thread. When I follow each section without alteration my results are better. Example, my swing flaw is a downswing path at 8 to 10 degrees in to out. Bad shot is a duck hook, not a lot of blocks, but when I hit one it can go offline in a hurry. I have long battled a too flat backswing that drops down even flatter in transition. I shallow the club too well, and try to stay away from that type of instruction which seems to be the rage. Setup I have adopted the Ballard stance up to now with one exception, the position of the right toe. I did not toe in because I have never seen a pro in still pics do that. Last range session I toed in the right foot with amazing results, the club will not drop behind me. I think you can take pieces of Ballard and use them successfully, letting eyes rotate to target on downswing right away, right shoulder up, left level, swing into a straight balanced finish, I have done these moves without changing anything else and gotten good results. But, when I follow the list at the top of this thread completely, my results are much more consistent. I think you need to get a connector and glove on JB"S website as it makes the changes much more quickly. Ballard works great for me, because it is a no-hook method. I have taken lessons from a great teacher, Brian Manzella, who taught me never hook again pattern about eight years ago. This was the first instruction that ever helped me get better. The Ballard stuff works great along that instruction, there are some similarities even though the method is different. Brian has you put both a** cheeks on a wall and keep them there up to the top of the swing, no over turn of the hips. When you do that, the right shoulder goes right up like Ballard advocates. Golf is really fun right now and quite simple.

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> @dodger said:

> I have not had the privilege of a Ballard lesson. I have read and misunderstood the book and have watched his video. That said, I gained much more from Speedster's first post on this thread. When I follow each section without alteration my results are better. Example, my swing flaw is a downswing path at 8 to 10 degrees in to out. Bad shot is a duck hook, not a lot of blocks, but when I hit one it can go offline in a hurry. I have long battled a too flat backswing that drops down even flatter in transition. I shallow the club too well, and try to stay away from that type of instruction which seems to be the rage. Setup I have adopted the Ballard stance up to now with one exception, the position of the right toe. I did not toe in because I have never seen a pro in still pics do that. Last range session I toed in the right foot with amazing results, the club will not drop behind me. I think you can take pieces of Ballard and use them successfully, letting eyes rotate to target on downswing right away, right shoulder up, left level, swing into a straight balanced finish, I have done these moves without changing anything else and gotten good results. But, when I follow the list at the top of this thread completely, my results are much more consistent. I think you need to get a connector and glove on JB"S website as it makes the changes much more quickly. Ballard works great for me, because it is a no-hook method. I have taken lessons from a great teacher, Brian Manzella, who taught me never hook again pattern about eight years ago. This was the first instruction that ever helped me get better. The Ballard stuff works great along that instruction, there are some similarities even though the method is different. Brian has you put both **** cheeks on a wall and keep them there up to the top of the swing, no over turn of the hips. When you do that, the right shoulder goes right up like Ballard advocates. Golf is really fun right now and quite simple.

 

 

What happens to the cheeks on the downswing......do they move away from the wall or stay on it?

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> @97speedster said:

> > @DonRSD said:

> >

> > What happens to the cheeks on the downswing......do they move away from the wall or stay on it?

> >

> If your cheeks come off the wall your going to come out of your posture and your plane is going to be affected. I only use that drill for the backswing, but I don't come off the wall in the transition. JB says "you want to feel like you're pinching a dime with both cheeks at impact, NEVER give change for a quarter (Sam Sneed squat, who by the way fought a hook when he was off)."

>

 

Exactly, I focus on it in the backswing because the right shoulder coils up like it should. I really do not think about it on the downswing. If I fire the right side from the top the hips take care of themselves, particularly if that right toe is pointed in at address.

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Just a little JB love. For the last month or so I kind of drift away from the JB fundamentals. By this I mean tryin to put my own "touch" on what JB teaches. After tinkering and becoming very inconsistent I trashed everything and went back to JB fundamentals verbatim. What really set the light bulb off in my head was re-watching the golf channel show with JB and Rocco. After a couple of days working on the exact positions from stance to downswing I produced the best round today in over a year a 74. This is an amazing swing when it all clicks and still a great swing even if you are a little off that day.

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Just watching some videos on youtube and came across this one of Ernie Els. I really like how he loads into his right side in his back swing. I didn't realize he did that. Almost like Curtis Strange.

 

Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
Bobby: I play because I love it.
Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.

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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that has added to this thread. The information shared has been very helpful and encouraging! I have committed to trying to learn this method and have had some pretty satisfying results so far this spring. Hitting the ball as solid as I ever have and I'm probably only doing things half right.

 

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> @BrianMcG said:

> Just watching some videos on youtube and came across this one of Ernie Els. I really like how he loads into his right side in his back swing. I didn't realize he did that. Almost like Curtis Strange.

>

>

 

 

JB Holmes has had one big swing thought throughout his career.....Load behind the ball.....

 

 

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> @dodger said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > > @DonRSD said:

> > >

> > > What happens to the cheeks on the downswing......do they move away from the wall or stay on it?

> > >

> > If your cheeks come off the wall your going to come out of your posture and your plane is going to be affected. I only use that drill for the backswing, but I don't come off the wall in the transition. JB says "you want to feel like you're pinching a dime with both cheeks at impact, NEVER give change for a quarter (Sam Sneed squat, who by the way fought a hook when he was off)."

> >

>

> Exactly, I focus on it in the backswing because the right shoulder coils up like it should. I really do not think about it on the downswing. If I fire the right side from the top the hips take care of themselves, particularly if that right toe is pointed in at address.

 

OK, bit confused here........you state "fire the right side from the top"..., my understanding was that it starts from the ground, the ankle toward the ball

been trying to get the legs going 1st.....

can several chime in and describe and expand what the feel, the sequence is of ......................"fire the right side" (quote from JB book)

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My "feel" for the downswing is try to cover the ball with the right shoulder. I was told this by a very good player years ago but I then had a flat/round swing and it didn't come close to helping. With the jb more vertical swing its a great feel for me.

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I feel the first move from the top is the right hand moving towards the target line. But, my swing flaw has always been too in to out with a lower body that moves too fast from the top. trapping my arms. My bad swings come from trying to stay closed with the upper body. My hands need to feel out first, than everything works ok. I am sure my lower body initiates, but I do not think of that as a trigger. Rt side high through the ball into a straight balanced finish. If the right side drops, I am dead, that happens if my legs move first

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Another death move for this swing is to pull the handle down (which is something I am still working hard to avoid). It creates an angle that causes wipes, flips and shanks. Covering the ball with the right shoulder (right handed player), club head getting to the ball first, unhinging the right elbow are all "thoughts" or "feels" to avoid pulling the handle down.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ballard: One plane or Two plane?

I have been told from golf professionals that the Ballard method is both one plane and two plane. Some advocates say one plane because the left arm stays connected. Other say two plane because of the high right arm. Right or wrong, I am curious to all thoughts. My conclusion is the Ballard method leans towards a combination of the two.

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.mikewilsongolf.com/video-blog/2016/11/7/2-plane-or-upright-swing-release-video-jim-hardy

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I think Jim Hardy is a great instructor who has a classification system he developed which provides him and other instructors some flexibility in developing a swing method for golfers. I think Ballard came up with a method that works extraordinarily well without any discussion of plane, other than his preference for steepness in the backswing. I do not think a comparison gives either instructor their due. Ballard is really simple, I have read Hardy's books, and they are a bit more complicated. I think the PGA champion has confirmed for me that simple is the answer. What is interesting is Koepka's swing. Wide stance, early shift right, right shoulder moves up on the backswing and left arm steep. The only real difference is club position at the top is more closed, with a different wrist position than Ballard advocates. Otherwise, I see a ton of stuff Ballard would like in Koepka's swing.

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> @dodger said:

> I think Jim Hardy is a great instructor who has a classification system he developed which provides him and other instructors some flexibility in developing a swing method for golfers. I think Ballard came up with a method that works extraordinarily well without any discussion of plane, other than his preference for steepness in the backswing. I do not think a comparison gives either instructor their due. Ballard is really simple, I have read Hardy's books, and they are a bit more complicated. I think the PGA champion has confirmed for me that simple is the answer. What is interesting is Koepka's swing. Wide stance, early shift right, right shoulder moves up on the backswing and left arm steep. The only real difference is club position at the top is more closed, with a different wrist position than Ballard advocates. Otherwise, I see a ton of stuff Ballard would like in Koepka's swing.

 

One additional thought: ANY swing change or rebuild goes better with a good instructor. But reasonably athletic, reasonably intelligent person can do a pretty good job of implementing Ballard to an acceptable level just by diligent study and use of the book and careful practice. Attempting to implement a "single plane" swing from Hardy's book but without an instructor is done at one's own peril; becoming too flat and being stuck is a real danger, and one from which recovery is not easy.

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Great drill and description of my only swing thought. However, that is not one plane as Hardy describes it. Ballard indicates it feels like it goes up and down the same plane, which is not the one plane Hardy describes, ie Kuchar. Hardy's one plane has the left arm for right handed golfers going below or at the shoulders, Ballard would say that is too flat. I play best when I feel like I am swinging up and down on the same path. To do that, my left arm does not go across my shoulders but above the shoulder line. It is completely a different feel than Hardy describes in his book. I was told thirty five years ago by a good senior pro that I was swinging too flat. If I had listened I would have had a lot more fun with the game. Hogan's book and some bad instruction based on it created a hook that I will likely fight until the end of time. Thank goodness for this thread and Ballard!

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