Jimmy Ballard

[Ayersjj]

I think Rocco does Ballard very similar to Jim Grant.

> @torbill said:

> He was Jimmy’s head assistant, an early version of Artie McNickle. There was an old VHS video circulating - I am guessing in the early 1980s - where Jimmy was using Grant to illustrate the fundamentals. This tape was my intro to the Ballard method, but it is long lost - I studied it a lot, didn’t understand any of it very well, hence moved on to another 30 years of useless golf tips. I have an image of his swing in my mind’s eye and would enjoy seeing if my memory is good. You might mention this to Jimmy sometime. I have never been able to find a single video of Grant.

>

> Edit: Frankly, I don’t know how I even remembered his name, but his swing was distinctive/different from others, almost like the Ballard method on steroids as I recall. This is a huge benefit of being old - you can’t find your car keys but you can remember names from long ago.

 

 

[sbark]

> @torbill said:

> Speedster, have you ever come across an old video of Jim Grant’s swing?

 

A quick search gave up

http://www.nucleargolf.com/NGjg.html

Jim grant still teaching

Some vids bottom avail

[torbill]

> @Ayersjj said:

> I think Rocco does Ballard very similar to Jim Grant.

> > @torbill said:

> > He was Jimmy’s head assistant, an early version of Artie McNickle. There was an old VHS video circulating - I am guessing in the early 1980s - where Jimmy was using Grant to illustrate the fundamentals. This tape was my intro to the Ballard method, but it is long lost - I studied it a lot, didn’t understand any of it very well, hence moved on to another 30 years of useless golf tips. I have an image of his swing in my mind’s eye and would enjoy seeing if my memory is good. You might mention this to Jimmy sometime. I have never been able to find a single video of Grant.

> >

> > Edit: Frankly, I don’t know how I even remembered his name, but his swing was distinctive/different from others, almost like the Ballard method on steroids as I recall. This is a huge benefit of being old - you can’t find your car keys but you can remember names from long ago.

>

>

 

Yup, I’ll bet you’re right. And how about that student of Jimmy’s - Nick - on the Swingshirt video that Ballard appears in. As I recall Grant’s swing it might have had that look. Super simple upper body action, no extra ingredients, just a rythmic back and through, effortless. Simple looking, not simple to do. Do you know what became of Jim Grant, JJ?

[torbill]

> @sbark said:

> > @torbill said:

> > Speedster, have you ever come across an old video of Jim Grant’s swing?

>

> A quick search gave up

> http://www.nucleargolf.com/NGjg.html

> Jim grant still teaching

> Some vids bottom avail

 

You just answered my question, thank you. I looked in the past and never saw this. He is teaching. Nothing happens when I try to see what videos they have for sale, unfortunately.

 

Edit: He was quite an amateur player, wow.

[jc4birdie]

 

>

> You need to stop your right hand from moving away from the target without any rotation. The feel you want is like you're shaking hands using your right hand with someone who is standing behind you and on your target line. You can't get in the right position at the top if you don't get it in the right position halfway back. This article is from back in 1996 when Greg Norman was #1 in the world, he describes it pretty well. You want to get wider in your right arm while staying connected in your left.

>

>

>

> You can become too connected in your left and that is when you start losing the width in your right arm which makes it really difficult to keep the right side high and it causes all kinds of other issues like getting it too far inside or outside the hands going back; it would equate to trying to throw a pitch with your right arm struck to your side. You need room in your right arm halfway back and at the top otherwise you will duck under it with the right shoulder into impact because the right arm will be too bent and not have enough time to unfold. For me, the key to having a high right side stay high is to keep and maintain the width in my right arm going back.

>

>

Thank you, 97Speedster. Not to be dense, but I just want to ensure I’m understanding correctly....so, “shake hands” w/ the right hand w/ someone behind me ON MY TARGET LINE (the outside alignment stick represented by my ball/target line), as opposed to my EYE/FOOT line (the inside alignment stick)? If so, this should be pretty easy to check/monitor, as I use 3 sticks when I practice (one a couple feet extended target-side on the ball/target line, and one extended back a couple feet away from the target on the ball/target line, and one on my eye/foot line to ensure square alignment). I’ll work on it to get on a better plane, and report back. I just want to avoid, at all costs, getting it too far inside w/ the clubhead (ala the old swing). That’s the problem w/ the exaggerated opposite feel as a fix....sooner or later, you actually start doing it.

 

Spot on w/ your point re: being TOO CONNECTED w/ the left arm/shoulder girdle. My ballstriking improved when I learned to LIGHTLY “plug in” w/ the arm on the pec, vs. “jamming” the “plug in”, which created a level of muscular tension/restriction that was counterproductive. Thankfully, I caught that relatively quickly in my Ballard journey.

 

[Ayersjj]

Cant get videos to work

> @sbark said:

> > @torbill said:

> > Speedster, have you ever come across an old video of Jim Grant’s swing?

>

> A quick search gave up

> http://www.nucleargolf.com/NGjg.html

> Jim grant still teaching

> Some vids bottom avail

 

 

[97speedster]

Removed

[DonRSD]

Went out for a round today and holy crap......worst ball striking day I've ever had.

Every shot was basically a slice. I even had 2 hosel shots (never do that).

 

My thoughts are high right shoulder backswing, swing to the target downswing (like I am throwing a club into the air at the target).

Kind of felt armsy today, meaning I was feeling my arms going back more than cry shoulders going back.

 

Dont know what went wrong, but I felt out of sync from the driving range when I was spraying the ball left and right.

 

Any tips / advice to get back in sync while in the middle of a round?

 

ALSO - have not been feeling the coil in my legs lately.....more so in my upper body only (shoulders coiling and lower body basically doing nothing feel). Any help for a fellow golfer :)

[97speedster]

Removed

[jc4birdie]

Thanks, Speedster. Played this morning w/ the Thursday group in our area, which is atypical for me (I’m off work this week). As there are a ton of seniors in Thursday’s group, we played the “up” tees, which was a first for me (5500 yards vs. the typical 6200-6300 my Saturday group plays....don’t laugh, 6300 is plenty at sea level and in our typical moist course conditions). Shot 74 (net 63; slope rating from those tees was the 113 “control” number for course handicapping purposes; hence 11 shots); missed 5 greens, and had 3 birdies.

 

Obviously, I had a lot of short irons into greens playing those tees, but I felt pretty good about the solidity of my shots. I say all that to ask this: my FEEL (and yes, feels fool you) today was a nice, soft, but connected left arm turning in one piece via the shoulder girdle, with a right arm that was wide, floating freely from the body but in concert w/ the overall motion, and in the “throwing” position at the top (elbow down, forearm at about 60-70 degrees to the ground. Then, I was just going to the left toe/instep thru the ball and releasing the arms via the body’s forward propulsion.

 

Is that a proper feel to try and repeat (or better put, allowed to happen), Speeds, or is it one that just came together today?

[97speedster]

Removed

[jc4birdie]

Yeah, I get your point. Truly, it’s the feeling of powering the body “thru” the shot by going to the left toe/instep that is most responsible for good shots, for me. I need to remember to keep it simple, even when I’m working on other things that, while impactful, aren’t the “engine” of the swing (which the coil behind the ball and the recoil thru it certainly is).

[DonRSD]

@97speedster do you "push off" your right foot/toe to start the downswing or it just happens?

 

 

[Ayersjj]

The game is hard ur not alone.

[97speedster]

Removed

[Tazz4629]

I'm new to the Jimmy Ballard Swing.

 

A little about myself. I'm 57, have had 3 surgeries for ruptured discs in my lower back through the years, torn ligament in my left wrist which has been surgically repaired. At one time I was a 12 handicap but after the wrist surgery I essentially quit playing for about two years. Now that I am starting to play again my handicap had soared to 20, now going back down to 17 right now. But the conventional swing is killing my back. the more I work to improve the worse my back gets. The back issues affect how often I can play.

 

In searching for a swing that would not wreck my back I stumbled across the old video of JB and Rocco on the old Golf Channel Academy. I liked what I was hearing so I decided to research Jimmy Ballard and his ideas on how to swing a club

 

I'm not sure what direction to go to learn the swing but I've ordered JB's video "The Fundamental Golf Swing" at jimmyballard.com. Not sure when it will arrive. From watching the youtube videos along with reading some of these posts I have started the journey. Have a long ways to go and if I want to be able to continue playing this great game I'll have to get there.

[Ayersjj]

 

When I get armsy it seems that Im not coiling shoulders properly in backswing.

 

Goto 30 minute mark

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=VAgvfLLbE5c

 

> have not been feeling the coil in my legs lately.....more so in my upper body only (shoulders coiling and lower body basically doing nothing feel). Any help for a fellow golfer :)

 

 

[jc4birdie]

Tazz4629, I highly recommend that you get Ballard’s book, “How to Perfect your Golf Swing”. Find it on Amazon. Simply put, it’s the best instruction material on the golf swing on the planet. I joined Ballard’s world 3 years ago; it’s a slow go, and there are missteps that you HAVE TO GO THRU along the journey. But it’s worth it, and trust it. Just go w/ fundamentals, and resist the temptation to “try this and try that”. Ballard’s website is an excellent collection of video lessons, drills, and teachings, as well. Additionally, Golflink.com has a whole collection of Ballard vids. The DVD you’ve purchased already is excellent, as well. YouTube has several 25-30 min vids of Ballard from 89 that he did for ESPN or ABC, originally aired during golf telecasts.

[Tazz4629]

> @DonRSD said:

> https://www.tcpalm.com/story/sports/golf/2018/08/14/dolch-ballard-teaches-golf-like-yoda-teaches-force/989406002/

 

My BIL lives in Fort Pierce. If JB is still going strong next year I believe a trip to visit my BIL is in order

 

 

[Tazz4629]

> @jc4birdie said:

> Tazz4629, I highly recommend that you get Ballard’s book, “How to Perfect your Golf Swing”. Find it on Amazon. Simply put, it’s the best instruction material on the golf swing on the planet. I joined Ballard’s world 3 years ago; it’s a slow go, and there are missteps that you HAVE TO GO THRU along the journey. But it’s worth it, and trust it. Just go w/ fundamentals, and resist the temptation to “try this and try that”. Ballard’s website is an excellent collection of video lessons, drills, and teachings, as well. Additionally, Golflink.com has a whole collection of Ballard vids. The DVD you’ve purchased already is excellent, as well. YouTube has several 25-30 min vids of Ballard from 89 that he did for ESPN or ABC, originally aired during golf telecasts.

 

I just ordered the book from jimmyballard.com today based on all the posts I've been reading. Your recommendation proves my hunch was correct to go ahead and get the book.

 

I was able to go to the range yesterday to work on some of JB's swing principles, setup, Biceps connected to shoulder girdle, elbows down, hinge right elbow on back swing, fold left elbow after impact. Lots of work to do but one thing I noticed while working was that when I made a halfway decent swing I didn't hook the ball or hit the ball fat. I even had as good as or better distance with some of my clubs, especially driver. The best thing was my back wasn't killing me after the range session. Lots of old swing habits to get rid of and I know I wasn't doing a majority of things correct but just trying JB's swing technique gave me some hope that I can continue playing and start to have fun again.

 

[97speedster]

Removed

[jc4birdie]

> @Tazz4629 said:

>

> I just ordered the book from jimmyballard.com today based on all the posts I've been reading. Your recommendation proves my hunch was correct to go ahead and get the book.

>

> I was able to go to the range yesterday to work on some of JB's swing principles, setup, elbows down, fold left elbow. Lots of work to do but one thing I noticed while working was that when I made a halfway decent swing I didn't hook the ball or hit the ball fat. I even had as good as or better distance with some of my clubs, especially driver. The best thing was my back wasn't killing me after the range session. Lots of old swing habits to get rid of and I know I wasn't doing a majority of things correct but just trying JB's swing technique gave me some hope that I can continue playing and start to have fun again.

>

 

BTW, while you are on Ballard’s website, go ahead and get the practice glove for your right hand (if you play righty), and I’d venture a guess you’d benefit from having JB’s Swing Connector, also sold at the website. I say I’d guess b/c I don’t have a Connector myself....I do have the glove and it’s been an immense help in fighting the “tray” position w/ the right wrist.

 

And really focus on set-up....something today awoke me to some delinquency in myself in the most strange of settings. Rainy here today, and I’ve been getting a bit of “new irons fever”...problem is that my current set was custom fit to me 3 yrs ago, and buying off the rack isn’t happening for me, ever again. So, off to the Superstore I go to “just look around and see what the new gear is like”; or so I convinced myself, and told the wife. LOL. Hit a lot of clubs in the bay, getting all the data...but I did one crucial thing that, if I say so myself, was a good move. I took MY Mizuno JPX-EZ Fli Hi 7 iron in w/ me to hit against the new clubs (Cleveland Launcher CB, King Cobra F9, TM P790). Bottomline, I hit my current club as well, as long, and w/ superior dispersion (that’s the superior shaft, fitted to me, that I can credit) to any of the latest top clubs....killed my itch to start looking at new equipment. Go get fit....no matter your skill level...if a high or mid-capper, I’d say you stand to benefit even more than the better player (they can make anything work).

 

The delinquency I spoke of was this: my club or the others, I was consistently 8-10 yards left of center, which is my norm on course, too. Sales guy was really helpful...he brought one of those magnetized sticks that you stick to the clubface at address to assess the aim of the clubface, as he couldn’t figure it out, thinking my strikes looked solid. Turned out that I simply had the face closed a little, and have had it closed for I don’t know how long! When we got the magnet stick pointing square down the line, I couldn’t believe how “open” the face looked to me, but a few swings where the shots went right down the target line proved me setting up w/ the clubface a bit closed was the culprit of a great deal of time spent trying to “Un-Left” my swing and ballflight, when it was nothing more than a set-up issue. Sometimes, it’s not as complex a problem as we make it out to be, if we just pay attention to the simple answers!

[golfer07840]

> @"Jersey golfer" said:

> > @DonRSD said:

> > How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

> >

> > Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

> >

> > Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

> >

> > I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

> >

> > Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.

> > I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

>

> What I wouldn't give for a 160 yard 7 iron. Father time sucks.

 

I'd love to be able to hit my 7i 160 yards.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable distance. Unless you're trying to complete on a course that's 7,300 yards.

[jc4birdie]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @"Jersey golfer" said:

> > > @DonRSD said:

> > > How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

> > >

> > > Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

> > >

> > > Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

> > >

> > > I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

> > >

> > > Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.

> > > I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

> >

> > What I wouldn't give for a 160 yard 7 iron. Father time sucks.

>

> I'd love to be able to hit my 7i 160 yards.

>

> That's a perfectly acceptable distance. Unless you're trying to complete on a course that's 7,300 yards.

 

 

160 7i is no big deal....as long as I’m hitting downwind 15 mph or playing in the Rocky Mountains! LOL.

 

Seriously, what I wouldn’t give to hit 7i 175 yards...that would mean I’d be driving it about 275-280, as a not-unimportant side benefit!

 

 

[jc4birdie]

And yes, Father Time sux....

[Tazz4629]

> @jc4birdie said:

>

> BTW, while you are on Ballard’s website, go ahead and get the practice glove for your right hand (if you play righty), and I’d venture a guess you’d benefit from having JB’s Swing Connector, also sold at the website. I say I’d guess b/c I don’t have a Connector myself....I do have the glove and it’s been an immense help in fighting the “tray” position w/ the right wrist.

>

> And really focus on set-up....something today awoke me to some delinquency in myself in the most strange of settings. Rainy here today, and I’ve been getting a bit of “new irons fever”...problem is that my current set was custom fit to me 3 yrs ago, and buying off the rack isn’t happening for me, ever again. So, off to the Superstore I go to “just look around and see what the new gear is like”; or so I convinced myself, and told the wife. LOL. Hit a lot of clubs in the bay, getting all the data...but I did one crucial thing that, if I say so myself, was a good move. I took MY Mizuno JPX-EZ Fli Hi 7 iron in w/ me to hit against the new clubs (Cleveland Launcher CB, King Cobra F9, TM P790). Bottomline, I hit my current club as well, as long, and w/ superior dispersion (that’s the superior shaft, fitted to me, that I can credit) to any of the latest top clubs....killed my itch to start looking at new equipment. Go get fit....no matter your skill level...if a high or mid-capper, I’d say you stand to benefit even more than the better player (they can make anything work).

>

> The delinquency I spoke of was this: my club or the others, I was consistently 8-10 yards left of center, which is my norm on course, too. Sales guy was really helpful...he brought one of those magnetized sticks that you stick to the clubface at address to assess the aim of the clubface, as he couldn’t figure it out, thinking my strikes looked solid. Turned out that I simply had the face closed a little, and have had it closed for I don’t know how long! When we got the magnet stick pointing square down the line, I couldn’t believe how “open” the face looked to me, but a few swings where the shots went right down the target line proved me setting up w/ the clubface a bit closed was the culprit of a great deal of time spent trying to “Un-Left” my swing and ballflight, when it was nothing more than a set-up issue. Sometimes, it’s not as complex a problem as we make it out to be, if we just pay attention to the simple answers!

 

I've started reading this thread from the very beginning. Over 32 pages so it will take me awhile.

 

I noticed talk about the grip last night. I will check out the glove. Thanks for the advice.

 

From what I am reading that when a golfer has learned and is performing the Ballard swing well if something goes awry it often times is a simple fix. In the JB swing there are not all those angles and complex movements to diagnose. As Rocco said it is a simple one - two, simple to perform hard to learn/perfect when one has spent their whole golfing life learning something more complex and different to what JB teaches. I think that once a golfer really understands and gets what JB teaches it really is a simple swing to perform and maintain.

 

I sure hope there are instructors out there who are really learning what JB has been teaching through the years to that they can carry on his legacy.

[Silveird]

> @97speedster said:

> > @DonRSD said:

> > @97speedster do you "push off" your right foot/toe to start the downswing or it just happens?

> >

> >

>

> It just happens.... I don’t think of much other than my target when I’m on the course.

>

>

 

@97speedster First off thank you so much for the wealth of information you have provided on this thread. I actually jumped on to ask the same question as DonRSD. An instructor recently turned me onto Ballard's teachings. It's still early--I'm just a few weeks in--but I'm already starting to see the light. However the one thing I still can't get my head around is how to initiate the downswing. After watching several of Ballard's videos on youtube I find myself starting my downswing by pushing off my right foot.

 

Is this correct, or am I missing an in-between step? I understand that for you the push-off 'just happens' but does it just happen at the top of the downswing or at some point after the club starts to fall? And if it happens afterwards, what part of your body do you use to initiate your downswing?

 

Thanks again!

 

 

[97speedster]

Removed

[Silveird]

> @97speedster said:

>

> > @Silveird said:

> >

> > @97speedster First off thank you so much for the wealth of information you have provided on this thread. I actually jumped on to ask the same question as DonRSD. An instructor recently turned me onto Ballard's teachings. It's still early--I'm just a few weeks in--but I'm already starting to see the light. However the one thing I still can't get my head around is how to initiate the downswing. After watching several of Ballard's videos on youtube I find myself starting my downswing by pushing off my right foot.

> >

> > Is this correct, or am I missing an in-between step? I understand that for you the push-off 'just happens' but does it just happen at the top of the downswing or at some point after the club starts to fall? And if it happens afterwards, what part of your body do you use to initiate your downswing?

> >

> > Thanks again!

> >

> >

>

> I don't want to screw you up by sharing my "feels" with you because it can be deceptive. I generally have a steeper downswing so I try to start my downswing with my arms while my shoulders stay closed as the arms initiate the downswing, but again this is just a feel for MY game which keeps me from opening my shoulders too soon on the downswing. Ideally, the downswing starts from the ground up and not with the upper body.

>

 

Thanks. I should have known there is no cut and dried answer, otherwise I would have found it already!

 

I will keep tinkering with Ballard's fundamentals and fill in the gaps using my own experience. For what it's worth, I also struggle with opening my shoulders too soon. I played golf for a long time before taking formal lessons and was poisoned by the belief that creating lag meant getting my shoulders ahead of my arms. Decades later that thought is still burned into the recesses of my brain. Funny game this is.

[Ayersjj]

I think Speeder is right distinguishing feels vs fundamental. Sutton recently gave golfchannel his take on why he’s struggling on the comeback trail. https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-swing-changes-comeback-pga-tour-champions

 

But this is a feel not a fundamental. In the young Sutton downswing I would bet this dropping of arms was far from his thoughts and feels.

 

 

 

> @Silveird said:

> > @97speedster said:

> >

> > > @Silveird said:

> > >

> > > @97speedster First off thank you so much for the wealth of information you have provided on this thread. I actually jumped on to ask the same question as DonRSD. An instructor recently turned me onto Ballard's teachings. It's still early--I'm just a few weeks in--but I'm already starting to see the light. However the one thing I still can't get my head around is how to initiate the downswing. After watching several of Ballard's videos on youtube I find myself starting my downswing by pushing off my right foot.

> > >

> > > Is this correct, or am I missing an in-between step? I understand that for you the push-off 'just happens' but does it just happen at the top of the downswing or at some point after the club starts to fall? And if it happens afterwards, what part of your body do you use to initiate your downswing?

> > >

> > > Thanks again!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don't want to screw you up by sharing my "feels" with you because it can be deceptive. I generally have a steeper downswing so I try to start my downswing with my arms while my shoulders stay closed as the arms initiate the downswing, but again this is just a feel for MY game which keeps me from opening my shoulders too soon on the downswing. Ideally, the downswing starts from the ground up and not with the upper body.

> >

>

> Thanks. I should have known there is no cut and dried answer, otherwise I would have found it already!

>

> I will keep tinkering with Ballard's fundamentals and fill in the gaps using my own experience. For what it's worth, I also struggle with opening my shoulders too soon. I played golf for a long time before taking formal lessons and was poisoned by the belief that creating lag meant getting my shoulders ahead of my arms. Decades later that thought is still burned into the recesses of my brain. Funny game this is.