Jimmy Ballard

[Ayersjj]

Jay Cudd and Bobby Walzel both looked like Knudson imo. If Walzel could have chipped and putted more people would have heard about him. I remember watching Walzel at Greensboro 1980s. He would bounce around in between his balance points as a waggle triangle to triangle. JB said he was a great ball striker.

 

Seems like alot of these guys that are so pure with the Ballard Method cannot putt a lick. Knudson was horrible yet won hands down best ball striker of the day, Irwin would say.

 

Ballard is a big Knudson advocate and major players on tour admired like Trevino, Irwin Crenshaw

 

> @SandPiper said:

> Knudson use to run thru the ball with his right knee. That is a much better transition move than hip because its a kick or firing and hips tend to slide which is wrong.

>

>

> > @spacecraft said:

> > > @garyt said:

> > > Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

> >

> > My ballard swing is left shoulder to chin on backswing and left shoulder separating from chin on downswing. My problem has always been firing my right hip and leaving my arms behind, using my left shoulder seems to get my arms moving down.

> >

> >

>

>

 

 

[SandPiper]

Walzel survived cancer while on seniors

[Ayersjj]

Cant find his swing anywhere either. Colbert, kratzert and leonard thompson nowhere to be seen> @SandPiper said:

> Walzel survived cancer while on seniors

 

 

[SandPiper]

This is all thats needed

 

 

> @Ayersjj said:

> Cant find his swing anywhere either. Colbert, kratzert and leonard thompson nowhere to be seen> @SandPiper said:

> > Walzel survived cancer while on seniors

>

>

 

[torbill]

> @spacecraft said:

> > @garyt said:

> > Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

>

> My ballard swing is left shoulder to chin on backswing and left shoulder separating from chin on downswing. My problem has always been firing my right hip and leaving my arms behind, using my left shoulder seems to get my arms moving down.

>

>

 

If you think left shoulder you might like this one from Johnny Miller, who worked with Ballard way back. It’s a left-side swing thought, but the only way it happens is if the right side fires, and it’s consistent with Ballard swing principles:

 

 

And just look at the still of Miller, above. If that isn’t all about Ballard principles I don’t what is...

 

[garyt]

> @SandPiper said:

> This is all thats needed

>

>

>

> > @Ayersjj said:

> > Cant find his swing anywhere either. Colbert, kratzert and leonard thompson nowhere to be seen> @SandPiper said:

> > > Walzel survived cancer while on seniors

> >

> >

> There was a video of Colbert hitting balls while Jimmy and a couple other proteges watched. Can't find it now. I also had video of Jimmy hitting chips and sand shots at one of his schools, the only time I've ever seen Jimmy hit a ball. Lost that one, too. It's a shame Jimmy didn't get video of him hitting some actual shots. I know the naysayers say it's because he couldn't play but I doubt that.

 

 

[Ayersjj]

Video of Colbert/Ballard explaining how to NOT swap centrifugal forces was awesome. Straight from Colberts career. Jane Rosenburg refused to keep it posted for some reason. I still think about what Colber said about posture. “I try to feel like Im down into the legs like a weight lifter with my upper body up”

 

> @garyt said:

> > @SandPiper said:

> > This is all thats needed

> >

> >

> >

> > > @Ayersjj said:

> > > Cant find his swing anywhere either. Colbert, kratzert and leonard thompson nowhere to be seen> @SandPiper said:

> > > > Walzel survived cancer while on seniors

> > >

> > >

> > There was a video of Colbert hitting balls while Jimmy and a couple other proteges watched. Can't find it now. I also had video of Jimmy hitting chips and sand shots at one of his schools, the only time I've ever seen Jimmy hit a ball. Lost that one, too. It's a shame Jimmy didn't get video of him hitting some actual shots. I know the naysayers say it's because he couldn't play but I doubt that.

>

>

 

 

[jc4birdie]

> @garyt said:

> Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

 

Ballard's book itself quotes the man allowing that everyone's feel sensations are different and that lots of people understand from their left side, Hogan being one. But that doesn't mean what really HAPPENED is different; just how different people feel those same things. Ex/ the weight shift that starts the downswing OBVIOUSLY starts from the right foot, but some people FEEL the transition in their LEFT HIP, & that's fine, per Ballard. But still, it initiates in the right foot....if you get into the leg, coiled, where else COULD the pressure shift forward come FROM? FEEL isn't always real... actually most of the time it isn't.

[garyt]

I played yesterday and had a very nice round. Shot 81 and didn't make a single birdie putt. Had the maintenance crew following me for a few holes and for whatever reason I find that distracting when they stop beside me and wait till I hit. Rushed a few shots or might've got into the 70's. One thing I found was I started swinging faster. I had been going back slow, probably trying to hit positions. I took it back faster, ( not racing mind you) but not worrying about being perfect and hit the ball better and farther. Took some video but from some bad angles so I won't bother posting. My new swing thought is just keeping my shoulders closed longer into the downswing and that helped a lot.

[garyt]

> @jc4birdie said:

> > @garyt said:

> > Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

>

> Ballard's book itself quotes the man allowing that everyone's feel sensations are different and that lots of people understand from their left side, Hogan being one. But that doesn't mean what really HAPPENED is different; just how different people feel those same things. Ex/ the weight shift that starts the downswing OBVIOUSLY starts from the right foot, but some people FEEL the transition in their LEFT HIP, & that's fine, per Ballard. But still, it initiates in the right foot....if you get into the leg, coiled, where else COULD the pressure shift forward come FROM? FEEL isn't always real... actually most of the time it isn't.

 

What I found from playing yesterday was that by leading from the left side I was keeping my left shoulder closed longer. So that's my new swing thought. Not so much left side lead but keep the left shoulder closed longer in the downswing.

[SandPiper]

People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

 

> @garyt said:

> > @jc4birdie said:

> > > @garyt said:

> > > Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

> >

> > Ballard's book itself quotes the man allowing that everyone's feel sensations are different and that lots of people understand from their left side, Hogan being one. But that doesn't mean what really HAPPENED is different; just how different people feel those same things. Ex/ the weight shift that starts the downswing OBVIOUSLY starts from the right foot, but some people FEEL the transition in their LEFT HIP, & that's fine, per Ballard. But still, it initiates in the right foot....if you get into the leg, coiled, where else COULD the pressure shift forward come FROM? FEEL isn't always real... actually most of the time it isn't.

>

> What I found from playing yesterday was that by leading from the left side I was keeping my left shoulder closed longer. So that's my new swing thought. Not so much left side lead but keep the left shoulder closed longer in the downswing.

 

 

[spacecraft]

> @SandPiper said:

> People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

>

 

I thought that bend in the shaft had to do with the camera shutter

[garyt]

> @spacecraft said:

> > @SandPiper said:

> > People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

> >

>

> I thought that bend in the shaft had to do with the camera shutter

 

Yea, that has nothing to do with springing the shaft or anything else swing related

[Ayersjj]

Say what?

 

@SandPiper How do u know people leave bc of springing the shaft? Lol

 

@SandPiper said:

> People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

>

>

> > @garyt said:

> > > @jc4birdie said:

> > > > @garyt said:

> > > > Anybody try to do the Ballard swing with more of a left side lead? By this I mean I start back by coiling my left shoulder into my back leg. I think of starting down with my left side, weight shifts left, and I use my left side to power through the ball which gets my right side through nicely. I used to focus on pushing off with the right and thinking all right side. I feel it helps me get a better coil to start back with the left side, also. Does this make any sense and does anyone do it this way?

> > >

> > > Ballard's book itself quotes the man allowing that everyone's feel sensations are different and that lots of people understand from their left side, Hogan being one. But that doesn't mean what really HAPPENED is different; just how different people feel those same things. Ex/ the weight shift that starts the downswing OBVIOUSLY starts from the right foot, but some people FEEL the transition in their LEFT HIP, & that's fine, per Ballard. But still, it initiates in the right foot....if you get into the leg, coiled, where else COULD the pressure shift forward come FROM? FEEL isn't always real... actually most of the time it isn't.

> >

> > What I found from playing yesterday was that by leading from the left side I was keeping my left shoulder closed longer. So that's my new swing thought. Not so much left side lead but keep the left shoulder closed longer in the downswing.

>

>

 

 

[SandPiper]

Trust Me

I know

 

> @garyt said:

> > @spacecraft said:

> > > @SandPiper said:

> > > People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

> > >

> >

> > I thought that bend in the shaft had to do with the camera shutter

>

> Yea, that has nothing to do with springing the shaft or anything else swing related

 

 

[garyt]

> @SandPiper said:

> Trust Me

> I know

>

> > @garyt said:

> > > @spacecraft said:

> > > > @SandPiper said:

> > > > People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I thought that bend in the shaft had to do with the camera shutter

> >

> > Yea, that has nothing to do with springing the shaft or anything else swing related

>

>

 

I've never really gotten a good explanation of "springing the shaft". What exactly does that mean?

[torbill]

> @garyt said:

> > @SandPiper said:

> > Trust Me

> > I know

> >

> > > @garyt said:

> > > > @spacecraft said:

> > > > > @SandPiper said:

> > > > > People leave this method bc they fail to learn how to spring the shaft like Nelson, Knudson. Manufacturing moves cannot create spring in the shaft properly. Its an athletic motion. Tips will last for a round or two and be chucked by the wayside or the individual will run off to other methods or swing theories, imo.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I thought that bend in the shaft had to do with the camera shutter

> > >

> > > Yea, that has nothing to do with springing the shaft or anything else swing related

> >

> >

>

> I've never really gotten a good explanation of "springing the shaft". What exactly does that mean?

 

 

Gary, the picture and Ballard’s springing the shaft have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

 

Springing the shaft refers to the backward bow that Ballard wants created at the reversal. We have all seen it in pictures, where the shaft is bowing backwards right at the top as the player starts down. What is happening is, when the body begins to uncoil is is accelerating the club in a rotational fashion. This acceleration causes a bending torque in the shaft, starting right from the top.

 

If we start the downswing by pulling the butt of the club toward the ball we get no bending torque at the top, hence no springing at the top; the shaft will eventually spring backwards but it will occur later in the downswing. The whole point that Ballard is making is that he wants an uncoiling from the top, not a pulling on the butt of the club from the top, and the evidence of a correct move is that the shaft is “sprung”, or bent backwards, right from the top.

 

The apparent backward bend seen in the picture can only occur through contact with the ball - if it weren't for contact with the ball the shaft would have been unloaded before this point and now bending forward, if anything, as the body and club decelerate.

 

A sharp impact between the club head and the ball creates what is known as an impulse. An impulse is a sudden, momentary force. When we are dealing with hard, elastic materials like a clubface and a ball, this force can be very large. This force tries to drive the ball forward and bend the shaft backwards - action /reaction, Newton’s third law.

 

But the club head would have to be moving at about a bazillion mph at contact to cause a large backward bow as shown in the picture. As you noted, there is photograph abberation here.

 

The point is that Ballard's springing the shaft occurs at the top and this picture shows bending at the bottom, two completely different things. This is not a picture of Ballard’s springing of the shaft.

 

[SandPiper]

@torbill exactly!

If u dont learn to spring it (shaft) u will say it doesnt work and leave this method. Its hard to do._ **If u learn how u will be part of an elite group of ball strikers.**_ If u dont and try all types of gimmicks (hold shoulder back bs) u will be on a long rabbit trail of micro moves trying to create the magic move. Wont happen.

 

Canadians were shown thru Knudson.

[torbill]

> @SandPiper said:

> @torbill exactly!

> If u dont learn to spring it (shaft) u will say it doesnt work and leave this method. Its hard to do._ **If u learn how u will be part of an elite group of ball strikers.**_ If u dont and try all types of gimmicks (hold shoulder back bs) u will be on a long rabbit trail of micro moves trying to create the magic move. Wont happen.

>

> Canadians were shown thru Knudson.

 

I think that what you are saying is that a good golf swing is not the result of swing tips. I agree. I went in circles most of my golf life that way - the greatest tip ever, and it worked for a couple of rounds if I was lucky, and then I was once again lost, never having understood why the tip worked in the first place and why it stopped working.

 

The Ballard method is complete. The common denominators are the bedrock principles, and Ballard provides every detail for what the player needs to do in order to apply the principles correctly. All the pieces fit together and anybody can do them. And when we do them various effects such as the shaft springing or moving to a straight and balanced finish occur pretty much automatically.

 

I don’t see any problem with swing thoughts/swing tips/drills, per se. After all, we can’t just look at a great swing like Knudson’s and pick up a club and do it. We need ideas that help us to ingrain the principles correctly. The problem that I see is the use of swing tips that take us in a different direction from the principles we are trying to learn, and I think that this is your point. Which is why I have always tried to either stick with ideas that I have seen Ballard discuss (eg. Ben Hogan’s thumb a ride) or know for a fact are consistent with the principles of the method (eg. Johnny Miller’s best tip ever). When Ballard gives a swing tip he explains what principle it is intended to help, and why. Getting swing tips from TV, a friend, or a magazine and not having a strong sense of how they fit with the method is going to end badly.

 

 

 

[DonRSD]

@torbill springing the shaft makes my swing uncoil and go OOT.

[SandPiper]

thats the whole idea

> @DonRSD said:

> @torbill springing the shaft makes my swing uncoil and go OOT.

 

 

[jc4birdie]

Gonna give it another try. I know what springing the shaft is.....but HOW does a golfer DO IT?? I know JB says on his website that you have to do it with your legs, or you will cast the club (if you try to do it w/ your arms). But precisely HOW do you spring the shaft?

 

My sense is that the transition move is what does it, but I’m not exactly clear, which is odd for me as a Ballard-o-phile.

[PowerPutt]

My experience with learning to spring the shaft is to start the downswing with a kick of the right knee towards the ball. Not a big slide, just a kick that draws the club and right shoulder down towards the ball. The spine and head remain relatively steady initially, but as the whole right side fires the rotation of the body carries the head and spine forward. I feel that I am still behind the ball at impact, but definitely moving down and through. No reverse C.

Jimmy B published an article with photos of Annika showing her initiating the downswing with the kick of the right knee.

 

[Ayersjj]

Good stuff ?> @PowerPutt said:

> My experience with learning to spring the shaft is to start the downswing with a kick of the right knee towards the ball. Not a big slide, just a kick that draws the club and right shoulder down towards the ball. The spine and head remain relatively steady initially, but as the whole right side fires the rotation of the body carries the head and spine forward. I feel that I am still behind the ball at impact, but definitely moving down and through. No reverse C.

> Jimmy B published an article with photos of Annika showing her initiating the downswing with the kick of the right knee.

>

 

 

[torbill]

> @jc4birdie said:

> Gonna give it another try. I know what springing the shaft is.....but HOW does a golfer DO IT?? I know JB says on his website that you have to do it with your legs, or you will cast the club (if you try to do it w/ your arms). But precisely HOW do you spring the shaft?

>

> My sense is that the transition move is what does it, but I’m not exactly clear, which is odd for me as a Ballard-o-phile.

 

If you are doing the Ballard method what makes you think that the shaft isn’t springing?

 

[Ayersjj]

@torbill Wonder what JB says about the RA2 many bot here recently if it helps or hurts the transition springing of the shaft. I will ask him. I know he hates the medicus.

 

IMO ... JB will say “Any contraption that **_inhibits_** the firing right side towards the ball will be dished as gimmicky” The medicus aid did just that. RA2 is for width is my understanding (maybe more, dunno), but most using it are doing a lag and trying to narrow in downswing which is far from Ballard covering the ball from the initial kick in transition.

[commoditybroker]

All I know is the RA2 is working for me, in a big way. Day one using it, it has put me in such a better position coming back down and restricting my hands from lifting and getting me too steep. Still lots of work to do, but I am happily surprised after one day of using it. I imagine as the muscle memory continues to ingrain, my swing will continue to improve and hcp will drop accordingly....

 

Pics are before and after...remeber, this is ONE DAY of working with the RA2:

 

**BEFORE:**

 

**AFTER:**

 

_Videos:_

 

**BEFORE:**

 

**AFTER:**

[SandPiper]

> @commoditybroker said:

> All I know is the RA2 is working for me, in a big way. Day one using it, it has put me in such a better position coming back down and restricting my hands from lifting and getting me too steep. Still lots of work to do, but I am happily surprised after one day of using it. I imagine as the muscle memory continues to ingrain, my swing will continue to improve and hcp will drop accordingly....

>

 

In Canada its not used with Knudson followers or even mentioned. Knudson hugged the right side in backswing then got wide in downswing totally different than RA2

 

 

**The question is whether the Ballard method works well with it. **

 

Are you trying to lag and be more narrow with the device or fire the whole right side with the device from start if downswing like Knudson?

 

Ballard method requires a full release of the right side from the top immediately. If this device is more for a lag then its no good for the Ballard Method and would screw people up the downswing.

 

 

[commoditybroker]

The RA2 is for width, not lag.... I’m not trying to lag, I’m trying to get more shallow with the shaft closer to my right arm versus my left arm halfway down... much like Henrik Stenson and most every other consistently great ball striker I see on Tour....

 

 

 

@SandPiper, please post a video of your swing so I can get a better visual of how you swing, especially in transition?

[SandPiper]

I dont see how That training aid would work with Knudson

 

The right arm isnt wide like it promotes with RA2