Jimmy Ballard

[FanofSnead]

5 hours ago, DonRSD said:

Need some help boys....

 

when I push off the right foot I push “upward” not down the line. Any suggestions / swing thoughts to get the right side to release?

Ballard wants you to drive your Rt foot and knee more toward the ball, at least initially.

Just before my shoulders finish their turn I’m already moving my knee toward the ball.

 

This change in direction from the lower body while the shoulders are still finishing their turn is what JB calls “springing the shaft”

[Jersey golfer]

14 hours ago, DonRSD said:

Need some help boys....

 

when I push off the right foot I push “upward” not down the line. Any suggestions / swing thoughts to get the right side to release?

How about pushing upward with the left leg. Not per Ballard but it might work for you.

[FanofSnead]

25 minutes ago, Jersey golfer said:

How about pushing upward with the left leg. Not per Ballard but it might work for you.

That’s definitely a power move and one that Dana D actually uses to get his players to square the face 

[Gsea]

8 hours ago, Jersey golfer said:

How about pushing upward with the left leg. Not per Ballard but it might work for you.

This can be a game changer for some, was for me.

[Jersey golfer]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:49 PM, DonRSD said:

Need some help boys....

 

when I push off the right foot I push “upward” not down the line. Any suggestions / swing thoughts to get the right side to release?

Here is a drill from Golf Digest  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/use-ground-power-drill?utm_medium=email&utm_source=030321&utm_campaign=tipoftheday&uuid=30337cbd3b7b46d5bf64f72a6e0d6886

[torbill]

5 hours ago, Jersey golfer said:

Here is a drill from Golf Digest  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/use-ground-power-drill?utm_medium=email&utm_source=030321&utm_campaign=tipoftheday&uuid=30337cbd3b7b46d5bf64f72a6e0d6886

 

Well, this may be the world’s greatest tip, but it isn’t consistent with Ballard method.  It is actually in opposition to a couple of key Ballard principles, and will take you away from the Ballard method.  First, narrow stance.  Second, no weight transfer.  The Ballard method wants a wider stance in order to support an athletic, weight-shifting motion and to avoid twisting.  And nobody who ever gets a strong weight shift to his/her right side is going to be able slide his foot backwards like that on the downswing.  In the Ballard method the weight shifts into the braced right side, then strongly toward the target beginning with a push at the instep of the right foot.  The weight of the body is not going to shift toward the target by sliding the right foot backwards.  

  

[DonRSD]

Saw Bill Abrams today as I played an early morning round where he is teaching for the winter.

He got me fixed very quickly.

Went over only thinking about my lower body and a "low and load" thinking aka feel the weight into my right buttock and then release the entire right side. I asked him a LOT of questions and he answered all of them. Always thought loading into my right buttock was wrong, yet it felt so powerful. For me, my right side works when I think of my right hip going towards the target. I've been having issues pushing off my right foot and simply pushing UP and thus staying back. He explained that I am pushing UP because I was not going back on the backswing (not loading into right buttock)

My swing thought was always get the left shoulder back. He went over simply think of low & load and then cant get forward fast enough.

That alone stopped the lunging of up upper body & thinking about anything above my hips.

 

I speak to "WildBill" (that how I address him lol) a lot as we have developed a very good friendship outside of golf. Highly recommend him if youre in South Florida anytime in the winter or Chicago area for the summer. He is a very good & detailed instructor and an even better person. Will gladly pass along his info for anyone interested.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by DonRSD

[Lefty Adams]

I wonder if anyone is still looking at this thread. I really enjoyed reading it. I have been playing since high schoo (now 51)l, growing up in Atlanta, and Jim Grant was my first teacher! He is one of JB's most loyal partners and played on the tour for 8 years or so. He was low amateur at the Masters one year and is a prince of a guy. I have reconnected with Jim in the last couple of years, and he's as helpful as ever. Jim was in the original video JB made - does anyone know if a copy of those lessons exists? I have seen the excellent ones with Artie McNickle.

 

It's just nice to see a group of Ballard devotees. I still think JB's instruction makes a lot of sense and I consult his book regularly. 

 

 

[torbill]

Hi Lefty,

 

I still subscribe to this thread and get a notification of any activity, which is to say, not much.  So I guess that this qualifies as looking at this thread.  It went pretty dormant after the original poster took his football and left.

 

I remember the Jim Grant video from the early days of Ballard.  It was my first exposure to Ballard, who at the time was both in high demand and controversial.  Has to be 40 years ago or so and I had it on VHS or some such.  I tried the method and took nothing from it, and moved on.  In recent years I re-visited the method, now knowing much more about the golf swing, and realized that the reason that I originally took nothing from it because I never actually understood what he was talking about.  Now I know, and it’s the basis of what I do because I’ve found out how well it works.

 

 I inquired somewhere along this thread, asking if anybody has *any* video of Grant’s swing.  My recollection is that it was a swing that would be accused of a sway by the unwashed, but in reality was nothing more than a strong shift into the right side and a perfect example of Ballard’s teaching principles.  Do you have any video of Grant’s swing?

[Smitty1961]

Torbill I still watch it too.  I started using Ballard in the early 80's watched a Ballard video I checked out from the local library in VHS.  I'm 61 now and still devoted to his teachings.  Still play at scratch to -2 but it's getting harder:).  I think if one was to watch Sutton, Strange, and Annika swing you would wonder why anything else is taught.  Great to visit this thread from time-to-time and I still pick up bits and pieces to help keep me on track.  Keep the faith.

[torbill]

Smitty, it doesn’t get any easier, lol.

 

Here is an example of what you might be facing, and a possible caveat:  At my next birthday in a few months I’ll be 78, so I know a bit about where you are likely headed.  At the moment I’m playing to a 7, up from a 5.  The best I ever got to was 3, probably at about your age (and for readers who don’t know, the difference in skill, between a 3 and what Smitty plays-to, is *huge* in comparison to the small numerical difference, probably easier to get from a 10 or more to a 3 than from a 3 to a 0).

 

What got me from a 5 to a 7 is wanting more distance.  I haven’t lost a great amount of distance over the years, due to improvements in ball, equipment, technique (Ballard), and staying in condition.  I have always maintained that anybody who can hit a drive consistently to 230 yards has sufficient distance to play scratch golf on most courses that amateurs play.  And I still do that with driver distance.  But there is a mental stigma - as we get older there is going to be some falloff, and psychologically we don’t want that.  So we keep looking for what might get us back to what we were .  When we run out of equipment improvements we naturally turn a bit more to things like technique and conditioning - it’s about all that we have left.

 

So. Given that I’m basically in good shape I began looking for technique improvements to improve swing speed.  This sort of mentality causes swing changes that just sort of creep up on you.  One day you wake up and find that you are playing to a 7 and don’t know what the heck is the cause.  The cause is… trying to improve on the basic weight shift Ballard principles.  As I thought it through I realized that I have gradually (boiling frog) started to use too much upper body to try to help distance - tension, leading to ever so slight over the top and swing inconsistencies.  As a result too much right/left/curves, missing fairways and greens regularly, as opposed to infrequently.  Scramble mode replaces regulation mode.  

 

The light went on recently, and I am now in the process of re-training my body on what a pure weight-shift, connected Ballard swing feels like.  And I am once again beginning to hit GIR.  So I expect to get right back to where I’ve been (for sure), and even better (hope springs eternal).  When we do Ballard, we hit shots down the middle that don’t curve, and that have sufficient distance to get to the greens in regulation.  I’m planning to continue going “backwards” with my golf swing - if I have a bit less but sufficient distance, I’m not not going to chase distance, i’m just going to leave it alone lol!!  There are plenty of other areas to improve for most players.     

[Boise59]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:54 PM, DonRSD said:

Saw Bill Abrams today as I played an early morning round where he is teaching for the winter.

He got me fixed very quickly.

Went over only thinking about my lower body and a "low and load" thinking aka feel the weight into my right buttock and then release the entire right side. I asked him a LOT of questions and he answered all of them. Always thought loading into my right buttock was wrong, yet it felt so powerful. For me, my right side works when I think of my right hip going towards the target. I've been having issues pushing off my right foot and simply pushing UP and thus staying back. He explained that I am pushing UP because I was not going back on the backswing (not loading into right buttock)

My swing thought was always get the left shoulder back. He went over simply think of low & load and then cant get forward fast enough.

That alone stopped the lunging of up upper body & thinking about anything above my hips.

 

I speak to "WildBill" (that how I address him lol) a lot as we have developed a very good friendship outside of golf. Highly recommend him if youre in South Florida anytime in the winter or Chicago area for the summer. He is a very good & detailed instructor and an even better person. Will gladly pass along his info for anyone interested.

 

 

It was interesting to see your post today since it has been almost a year since Bill has passed. He and I met 11 years go at a PGA meeting in San Antonio and since we both had worked with Jimmy we because lifelong friends. He was a great teacher and an even better friend and I miss him a lot.

[DonRSD]

2 hours ago, ggpro said:

It was interesting to see your post today since it has been almost a year since Bill has passed. He and I met 11 years go at a PGA meeting in San Antonio and since we both had worked with Jimmy we because lifelong friends. He was a great teacher and an even better friend and I miss him a lot.

 

I miss Bill. Met him at HeronBay and always stayed in touch. Was sad to hear of his passing. Very nice guy. Hopefully he is golfing upstairs 🙂

[Divot License]

I've always had an awareness of Ballards ideas and methods. 

 

Back in 2006 while I was getting married in Duck Key in Florida I booked a lesson for my Dad with Jimmy at Ocean Reef in Key Largo.  I sat and watched my dads whole lesson with interest but was unwilling to touch my swing with it. 

 

Years later and I've now rad Jimmy's book several times and implement the principles in my swing where possible. 

[kevinmdowney]

What happened to all of OPs posts? All say “removed”.

 

Anyway, I’m fairly new to forum. Long story short… started at 15-16 years old, worked for and taught by JB disciple in Chicago. Was taught to teach Ballard at that time. Got to low single digits - never scratch - then quit playing altogether in 2005. This is same time I left the golf business.

So it’s been 17+ years…

 

Now a senior golfer, and youngest going to college, I built a new set and started practicing two months ago. I’m trending a 6 hdcp - definitely a ton of work to do.

 

But I post here because I’ve been trying to re-learn golf swing with more modern teaching thoughts / concepts - trying to hit a power fade. But recent range sessions I went back to JB - where I started. Felt so much more natural to me. Can’t say I hit it perfect, but it felt better.

 

Here’s to continuing the discussion for those that are still interested.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by kevinmdowney

[torbill]

He took his football and went home.  Can’t remember the exact reason, but it’s too bad, as he worked directly with Ballard, understood his own swing well, understood every detail of Ballard principles, and was very helpful. 

 

You are now a senior.  Let me give you my perspective on Ballard, as a senior-senior lol (I’m now 78) who carries a 7+ handicap, and is working to get it back down to where it should be:

 

We get old.  Things wear out.  We get injured more easily, especially our backs.  We lose muscle strength.  We lose distance.  Eventually we give up golf and spend time volunteering at the church. The End.  I live part of the year in a retirement community.  Believe me, I’ve seen this scenario play out, over and over.

 

Ballard is a swing for life.  I did hard rotation and had back problems for the better part of 30 years.  Now I don’t have back problems (Edit:  knock on wood!), and it is due to simple conditioning that I do at home that takes 15 minutes 3x/wk.  And Ballard principles.

 

So much of the modern swing seems to be based on staying mostly centered.  This requires core and upper body strength to generate speed and square the clubface.  And it is core and upper body strength that leave us as we get old!  In my experience we can maintain most of the flexibility with a good stretching program, but maintaining strength is a different matter, very hard.  You will see. Ballard generates relatively more power/speed than do “modern” swings via hard weight-shift. We retain the ability to do hard weight shift longer into old age, in my experience.  So I feel that I have lost less distance with Ballard principles than I otherwise would have.  And there is the obvious advantage of less strain on the back. And the ball flies so straight and true if we do Ballard correctly.

 

I play golf for small stakes with a relatively large group of exceptionally good senior players during the winter, almost all of them younger than I.  I have lost some distance, but not all that much, and I am still competitive with younger players and hit the ball as far as most.  There isn’t a green that I can’t reach in regulation on the courses we play, from the tees that the younger guys want to play. Golf is going to be a lot less fun for me when I can’t reach greens, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

 

As I say, Ballard can be a swing for life, and I highly recommend to any senior to use the method.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by torbill

[kevinmdowney]

Video attached.

 

Needs a ton of work. Right shoulder too low - can’t seem to figure that out. Dip coming through. Ugh.

 

Anyway, went back to JB last couple of practice sessions. Straight ball on good strikes. A few pull/draws, and a couple push/fades.

 

When I miss striking clean, generally thin but straight.

 

Biggest challenge is width of stance and ball position. I prefer everything (except driver) just inside of left heel. As I move down set, narrow stance. This is not how I was taught JB - was taught same width stance. Feel awkward to me with mid irons and wedges though.

 

Any thoughts / opinions appreciated.

Edited August 13, 2022 by kevinmdowney

[torbill]

In the first video, In regard to your setup, Ballard might tell you that your stance is narrow, that your spine is tipped back from the target which puts your right shoulder low, that your hands give the appearance of being pressed forward because you are playing the ball further back in your stance than he recommends.  So you are set up with some angles.

 

But all of these deviations are slight.  And, in spite of being set up so that you would tend to hang back and not get your weight forward, you shift your spine toward the target on the downswing and get your weight forward very well.  So, I don’t know why you can’t play good golf with a setup as it is.

 

You might try bringing that left shoulder down a bit, which will get your spine more in plumb (in the side picture) and naturally move the ball forward in your stance.  Nothing dramatic, as you are pretty close.  Perhaps a better way is to set the club on the ground, behind the ball, with the shaft not tipped toward or away from the target.  Do this before positioning your body.  Then position your body by making the shaft point at your navel with your elbows slightly pushed into your sides. This should also bring your left shoulder down and bring you into a slightly better Ballard position.  Nothing to lose by trying it at the range and seeing what happens.

[Hizzoner]

Greetings;

 

I came upon and read the bulk of this 48 page archive. I purchased the Ballard book and have been applying his lessons to great effect. One nugget for those who slice is embedded in the video lessons I have linked below and blew my mind.
 

Many short and  digestible thoughts in the treasure trove of video lessons…

 

Focus on and keep the left elbow down and connected through the downswing…this was a feel I never considered and it has improved my shots.

 

 

Thanks to all who have shared wisdom here…no thanks to those who chose to derail the thread….

 

 

Mark

 

 

Ballard lessons

[stryper]

23 hours ago, Hizzoner said:

Greetings;

 

I came upon and read the bulk of this 48 page archive. I purchased the Ballard book and have been applying his lessons to great effect. One nugget for those who slice is embedded in the video lessons I have linked below and blew my mind.
 

Many short and  digestible thoughts in the treasure trove of video lessons…

 

Focus on and keep the left elbow down and connected through the downswing…this was a feel I never considered and it has improved my shots.

 

 

Thanks to all who have shared wisdom here…no thanks to those who chose to derail the thread….

 

 

Mark

 

 

Ballard lessons

Lots of good stuff in those videos.  Ballard’s ideas are the ones I like to come back to most often.  😎

[DevilDog]

I prefer George Knudsen method which is somewhat Ballard-esque.  Easy to do and repeat.

[nagroc6987]

Someone name on player on the modern pga tour that you see having a huge lateral shift to the right with no hip turn, has his shoulders level at address (face on)incredibly upright backswing, finishes with his elbows down , has his stance “wacky “ wide. People who followed ballard were more like cultists at jonestown. It’s funny you never saw jimmy hitting balls….ever. He never played even played college golf. If its so easy why not? He sold “swing connectors” for $50 a pop when you needed a paper towel under your armpit to do the same thing. His model was based on hogan but hogan had a flat swing. Look at jordan speith with his left arm way off his body in the follow through. How do you explain that cult followers? Or the hundreds on super flat swings on tour which ballard said defied physics (you got to swing up to hit down, son) You got the club around you son(horrible Alabama accent) Most great players also have strong grips, a heresy to ballard because your shoulders needed to be level at address. When you challenged jimmy at all and asked him how someone like Paul azinger or john daly won majors with strong grips and the club going around them he would go into some rambling nonsense about how every player who did not follow his teaching would end up with a broken back. And the idea that there is no hip turn in the golf swing is just pure junk. Go pull up a video of phil mickelson hitting a driver. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by nagroc6987
Add

[mocokid]

Notes to self on Ballard swing

Posture, butt down, ball inside left foot, left arm very relaxed with wad of paper in left armpit (no lower), right foot angled in, head and upper body up 

 

Back swing, coil into right hip and right foot starts the motion, hands and arms lag behind.  Once relaxed left arm is parallel to ground, time to start downswing with lower right side. In reality swing should reach 3/4.  

 Downswing key, let club release, don't hold off with Left hand.  Right arm straightens at impact and left folds ASAP.  Left arm disappears in face on view, folds close to body, hands re-c@ck. 

[hbear55]

Does anyone know if Jimmy is still teaching and where?  Where can I find contact information?

[golftech]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:45 PM, hbear55 said:

Does anyone know if Jimmy is still teaching and where?  Where can I find contact information?

I have the same question, or strong former Ballard instructors.  
 

My preference is someone who also worked with Sam Byrd.  I was fortunate to have spent several months of daily golf with Sam shortly before his death.  Even into his 70’s he was so impressive to watch the control he had swinging and really with any shot including short game.  He and Ballard had differences of opinion on some aspects of the swing and I’m wondering if anyone teaching Byrd’s motion.  Byrd had more hip rotation in the video’s from the 1940’s, very much a Wild Bill Mehlhorn ‘step & turn’ look and Byrd told me he learned much from Mehlhorn.  

[Boise59]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:45 PM, hbear55 said:

Does anyone know if Jimmy is still teaching and where?  Where can I find contact information?

Jimmy takes a few students per year, usually  a 2 hour minimum. He teaches out of the Champions Club of Summerfield in Stuart, FL.

They can put you in touch with him.

[Boise59]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:06 AM, golftech said:

I have the same question, or strong former Ballard instructors.  
 

My preference is someone who also worked with Sam Byrd.  I was fortunate to have spent several months of daily golf with Sam shortly before his death.  Even into his 70’s he was so impressive to watch the control he had swinging and really with any shot including short game.  He and Ballard had differences of opinion on some aspects of the swing and I’m wondering if anyone teaching Byrd’s motion.  Byrd had more hip rotation in the video’s from the 1940’s, very much a Wild Bill Mehlhorn ‘step & turn’ look and Byrd told me he learned much from Mehlhorn.  

Not sure there is anyone still alive that had connections with Sam, he passed a long time ago.

Ballard and Byrd were very similar, the main difference is that Jimmy organized Sam’s ideas into order.

[golftech]

8 hours ago, ggpro said:

Not sure there is anyone still alive that had connections with Sam, he passed a long time ago.

Ballard and Byrd were very similar, the main difference is that Jimmy organized Sam’s ideas into order.

I wish you were correct, but having taken a number of lessons with both 40+ years ago I know there were differences of opinion between the two.  Just take a look at Byrd’s swing and the hips move differently and weight distribution is different at the top and impact.  Byrd definitely had a Mehlhorn look to his swing when he played the tour.  

What Jimmy did better than any instructor I’ve ever seen is distill mechanics into a series of swing feels.  I’ve never seen another instructor get inside a students head so quickly to determine how they feel the swing and what feel creates to mechanical changes.  Feels we’re often exaggerations sometimes overdone over-time, but giving all golfers from beginners to tour players the tools to play better.  I’ve seen Ballard teach a brand new beginner and Curtis Strange in the same school and good success for both that day.

 

Byrd was more mechanics focused and drills when I worked with him, often hard to execute.  But when I did, it’s the best I’d ever played (and I was a +3 handicap at the time). Watching Byrd teach Lee Mackey once in his leather soled street shoes was a marvel.  Mackey was of US Open fame (64 opening round in 1950 US Open).  Sam’s view was that Mackey could use the ground very effectively with power, while always in balance in those leather soles that most would slip all over the place in!

[Boise59]

On 9/24/2022 at 2:32 PM, nagroc6987 said:

Someone name on player on the modern pga tour that you see having a huge lateral shift to the right with no hip turn, has his shoulders level at address (face on)incredibly upright backswing, finishes with his elbows down , has his stance “wacky “ wide. People who followed ballard were more like cultists at jonestown. It’s funny you never saw jimmy hitting balls….ever. He never played even played college golf. If its so easy why not? He sold “swing connectors” for $50 a pop when you needed a paper towel under your armpit to do the same thing. His model was based on hogan but hogan had a flat swing. Look at jordan speith with his left arm way off his body in the follow through. How do you explain that cult followers? Or the hundreds on super flat swings on tour which ballard said defied physics (you got to swing up to hit down, son) You got the club around you son(horrible Alabama accent) Most great players also have strong grips, a heresy to ballard because your shoulders needed to be level at address. When you challenged jimmy at all and asked him how someone like Paul azinger or john daly won majors with strong grips and the club going around them he would go into some rambling nonsense about how every player who did not follow his teaching would end up with a broken back. And the idea that there is no hip turn in the golf swing is just pure junk. Go pull up a video of phil mickelson hitting a driver. 

Here's a couple of modern players who move a lot laterally, they're pretty good

[Ayersjj]

Hal Sutton basically throwing Ballard technique under the bus. Claims Ballards load into the right hip possibly cause his hip problems. Ironically Ballard told me Hal struggled with a reverse not loading enough. What Sutton is now promoting sounds “twisty” which is more stress on the hip joints  than Ballard ever taught him. Boy, when one gets off track in their golf swing they really go off the rails. Not surprised Sutton struggled in his comeback journey on senior tour w twisty hips and arm extension per the article.  Ballard helped him come out of his funk in 2000s. Seems pretty petty of him to trash his old swing sayn nobody swings the way he did. Wonder if he ever thought his unique technique is what catapulted him to being the straightest driver of the ball for years. Natural talent goes just so far imo. 

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/hal-sutton-players-championship-1983-2023-golf-swing-analysis

Edited March 11, 2023 by Ayersjj