Match Play 2018

[Gapwedger7]

NDS55,

 

The man in charge said my HC would be based on past history and scores in past tournament events so I had no say in the matter. I had only played a few times this year and was coming off a hip injury. Just had one great lucky round. I mean web Simpson had a great round this past weekend that was ridiculous; in no way am I comparing me to him but he shot way over his norm. It happens every now and then right?

 

Wait, your opponent was a 16, shot 80 and was complaining? Bro, he needs to get a mirror. By the way, what did you shoot?

 

I was 1 over through 16...

Sorry man, but you are not a 15 hc if you were +1 through 16. Handicap is not an average score it is a measure of ability based on certain averages, ratings etc.,

 

Granted, your opponent was probably not a 16 either, but I would be pretty pissed if I a mid handicapper were to shoot a score like yours.

 

Bourni1,

 

I understand and honestly in this situation he could not say much as a 16HC shooting even on back and birdieing 3 of the last 4 holes. Me shooting 1 over through 16 came out of nowhere, the best I ever had shot in competition was like a 79 in stroke play a few years back. My recent scores were mid 80's to low 90's. I got lucky and had a great day, ex thinned two balls from fairway and got lucky to par both of those holes; any other day it's probably a big number. That's the beauty of golf; you never know what can happen on any given day...

[Under2hours]

NDS55,

 

The man in charge said my HC would be based on past history and scores in past tournament events so I had no say in the matter. I had only played a few times this year and was coming off a hip injury. Just had one great lucky round. I mean web Simpson had a great round this past weekend that was ridiculous; in no way am I comparing me to him but he shot way over his norm. It happens every now and then right?

 

Wait, your opponent was a 16, shot 80 and was complaining? Bro, he needs to get a mirror. By the way, what did you shoot?

 

I was 1 over through 16...

Sorry man, but you are not a 15 hc if you were +1 through 16. Handicap is not an average score it is a measure of ability based on certain averages, ratings etc.,

 

Granted, your opponent was probably not a 16 either, but I would be pretty pissed if I a mid handicapper were to shoot a score like yours.

 

Bourni1,

 

I understand and honestly in this situation he could not say much as a 16HC shooting even on back and birdieing 3 of the last 4 holes. Me shooting 1 over through 16 came out of nowhere, the best I ever had shot in competition was like a 79 in stroke play a few years back. My recent scores were mid 80's to low 90's. I got lucky and had a great day, ex thinned two balls from fairway and got lucky to par both of those holes; any other day it's probably a big number. That's the beauty of golf; you never know what can happen on any given day...

 

Now I'm not saying your lying....... But.

 

Sorry no 15 who plays comps (and regularly) is +1 through 16, and shot 79 in a comp a few years back.

 

So what's your best score 75 or so......

 

I used to think the same about HC's and that if a 14, that means you shoot 86...... No it means 86 once every 4/5 rounds on a course with a 112 slope (or something similar I think).

[Gapwedger7]

NDS55,

 

The man in charge said my HC would be based on past history and scores in past tournament events so I had no say in the matter. I had only played a few times this year and was coming off a hip injury. Just had one great lucky round. I mean web Simpson had a great round this past weekend that was ridiculous; in no way am I comparing me to him but he shot way over his norm. It happens every now and then right?

 

Wait, your opponent was a 16, shot 80 and was complaining? Bro, he needs to get a mirror. By the way, what did you shoot?

 

I was 1 over through 16...

Sorry man, but you are not a 15 hc if you were +1 through 16. Handicap is not an average score it is a measure of ability based on certain averages, ratings etc.,

 

Granted, your opponent was probably not a 16 either, but I would be pretty pissed if I a mid handicapper were to shoot a score like yours.

 

Bourni1,

 

I understand and honestly in this situation he could not say much as a 16HC shooting even on back and birdieing 3 of the last 4 holes. Me shooting 1 over through 16 came out of nowhere, the best I ever had shot in competition was like a 79 in stroke play a few years back. My recent scores were mid 80's to low 90's. I got lucky and had a great day, ex thinned two balls from fairway and got lucky to par both of those holes; any other day it's probably a big number. That's the beauty of golf; you never know what can happen on any given day...

 

Now I'm not saying your lying....... But.

 

Sorry no 15 who plays comps (and regularly) is +1 through 16, and shot 79 in a comp a few years back.

 

So what's your best score 75 or so......

 

I used to think the same about HC's and that if a 14, that means you shoot 86...... No it means 86 once every 4/5 rounds on a course with a 112 slope (or something similar I think).

 

Right,

 

I know the difference btw an average and official HC; I had not played any events this year leading up to match play so they took my HC from past tournaments as mentioned above. I had no choice in the matter. I just happened to have a great day that day; everything went my way. 10 years ago shot a 69 at the course but that's when I played 3 to 5 times a week, was single and much younger...

[Gapwedger7]

Update!

 

My next match will take place later this week; I'm playing a long time member of the club who is in his 50's. His HC is a 14 and he plays the course all the time.

 

I play in a Saturday league sometimes at the city course and this past Saturday shot a 91. While I'll was there saw my buddy who was playing his match; he is a 12HC and was playing a 10HC. He got beat on H15 as the 10HC was 1 under par at that point. (Just craziness)

[TheKrushh]

NDS55,

 

The man in charge said my HC would be based on past history and scores in past tournament events so I had no say in the matter. I had only played a few times this year and was coming off a hip injury. Just had one great lucky round. I mean web Simpson had a great round this past weekend that was ridiculous; in no way am I comparing me to him but he shot way over his norm. It happens every now and then right?

 

Wait, your opponent was a 16, shot 80 and was complaining? Bro, he needs to get a mirror. By the way, what did you shoot?

 

I was 1 over through 16...

Sorry man, but you are not a 15 hc if you were +1 through 16. Handicap is not an average score it is a measure of ability based on certain averages, ratings etc.,

 

Granted, your opponent was probably not a 16 either, but I would be pretty pissed if I a mid handicapper were to shoot a score like yours.

 

Bourni1,

 

I understand and honestly in this situation he could not say much as a 16HC shooting even on back and birdieing 3 of the last 4 holes. Me shooting 1 over through 16 came out of nowhere, the best I ever had shot in competition was like a 79 in stroke play a few years back. My recent scores were mid 80's to low 90's. I got lucky and had a great day, ex thinned two balls from fairway and got lucky to par both of those holes; any other day it's probably a big number. That's the beauty of golf; you never know what can happen on any given day...

 

We deal with this sentiment at our club as well. "Because he's going to have too high of a handicap so am I because otherwise it won't be fair".

 

Also, I'm fine with the club setting your handicap this way as long as they significantly correct it for the next round. The 15 needs to be a 7 or 8 for the next round.

[Gapwedger7]

NDS55,

 

The man in charge said my HC would be based on past history and scores in past tournament events so I had no say in the matter. I had only played a few times this year and was coming off a hip injury. Just had one great lucky round. I mean web Simpson had a great round this past weekend that was ridiculous; in no way am I comparing me to him but he shot way over his norm. It happens every now and then right?

 

Wait, your opponent was a 16, shot 80 and was complaining? Bro, he needs to get a mirror. By the way, what did you shoot?

 

I was 1 over through 16...

Sorry man, but you are not a 15 hc if you were +1 through 16. Handicap is not an average score it is a measure of ability based on certain averages, ratings etc.,

 

Granted, your opponent was probably not a 16 either, but I would be pretty pissed if I a mid handicapper were to shoot a score like yours.

 

Bourni1,

 

I understand and honestly in this situation he could not say much as a 16HC shooting even on back and birdieing 3 of the last 4 holes. Me shooting 1 over through 16 came out of nowhere, the best I ever had shot in competition was like a 79 in stroke play a few years back. My recent scores were mid 80's to low 90's. I got lucky and had a great day, ex thinned two balls from fairway and got lucky to par both of those holes; any other day it's probably a big number. That's the beauty of golf; you never know what can happen on any given day...

 

We deal with this sentiment at our club as well. "Because he's going to have too high of a handicap so am I because otherwise it won't be fair".

 

Also, I'm fine with the club setting your handicap this way as long as they significantly correct it for the next round. The 15 needs to be a 7 or 8 for the next round.

 

TheKrushh,

 

The match play event had a 10HC end a match after 15 holes; the 10HC was 1 under when the match ended. So my question is do you drop the 10HC down to a 2 or 3HC based on your logic above?

 

Also to this statement: "Because he's going to have too high of a handicap so am I because otherwise it won't be fair".

 

I think this is the attitude of most golfers at the club; some will not even play any more; mostly the low HC's who have to give up 12 or 13 strokes to an opponent who will more than likely shoot low 80's and kill them...

[TheKrushh]

My understanding is that you don't have an actual handicap and that the course assigned you one. If the 10 HC is also that same boat, I do think they should dramatically correct his as well. I think a lot of this stuff goes away if the golfers are required to keep a real handicap. It is definitely hard to correctly assess this if people are guessing at what they should be.

 

These matchplay tournaments are tough because someone always feels left out when they get beat badly. Our club just makes sure the person posts all the scores so that their handicap will accurately reflect the butt whooping. The problem we have run in to is the guy who is a say 5 handicap who's even par through 15, closes out the guy, and then proceeds to bogey, double, double to stay right at his handicap. I know, I know, a whole different can of worms...

[Gapwedger7]

My understanding is that you don't have an actual handicap and that the course assigned you one. If the 10 HC is also that same boat, I do think they should dramatically correct his as well. I think a lot of this stuff goes away if the golfers are required to keep a real handicap. It is definitely hard to correctly assess this if people are guessing at what they should be.

 

These matchplay tournaments are tough because someone always feels left out when they get beat badly. Our club just makes sure the person posts all the scores so that their handicap will accurately reflect the butt whooping. The problem we have run in to is the guy who is a say 5 handicap who's even par through 15, closes out the guy, and then proceeds to bogey, double, double to stay right at his handicap. I know, I know, a whole different can of worms...

 

The course assigns a golfer a HC if they don't have a GHIN already established; in this case the 10HC is legit and has a GHIN. You will have that group that will say people fudge on putting scores in as well. Don't know how the Integrity issue can be resolved totally here.

 

I agree Match play tournament's are tough; to me one of the toughest opponents is the one who plays better when pressure is on; opposed to an everyday routine 18 hole golf outing. Could be the 13HC shooting high 70's?

 

Or the 15HC-20HC who just will practice and get better but not play that many rounds; so when a big event comes they clean house...

[TheKrushh]

My understanding is that you don't have an actual handicap and that the course assigned you one. If the 10 HC is also that same boat, I do think they should dramatically correct his as well. I think a lot of this stuff goes away if the golfers are required to keep a real handicap. It is definitely hard to correctly assess this if people are guessing at what they should be.

 

These matchplay tournaments are tough because someone always feels left out when they get beat badly. Our club just makes sure the person posts all the scores so that their handicap will accurately reflect the butt whooping. The problem we have run in to is the guy who is a say 5 handicap who's even par through 15, closes out the guy, and then proceeds to bogey, double, double to stay right at his handicap. I know, I know, a whole different can of worms...

 

The course assigns a golfer a HC if they don't have a GHIN already established; in this case the 10HC is legit and has a GHIN. You will have that group that will say people fudge on putting scores in as well. Don't know how the Integrity issue can be resolved totally here.

 

I agree Match play tournament's are tough; to me one of the toughest opponents is the one who plays better when pressure is on; opposed to an everyday routine 18 hole golf outing. Could be the 13HC shooting high 70's?

 

Or the 15HC-20HC who just will practice and get better but not play that many rounds; so when a big event comes they clean house...

 

I definitely agree, however, you seem to have a lot of statistical improbabilities going on at your club. Good luck the rest of the way!

[Gapwedger7]

My understanding is that you don't have an actual handicap and that the course assigned you one. If the 10 HC is also that same boat, I do think they should dramatically correct his as well. I think a lot of this stuff goes away if the golfers are required to keep a real handicap. It is definitely hard to correctly assess this if people are guessing at what they should be.

 

These matchplay tournaments are tough because someone always feels left out when they get beat badly. Our club just makes sure the person posts all the scores so that their handicap will accurately reflect the butt whooping. The problem we have run in to is the guy who is a say 5 handicap who's even par through 15, closes out the guy, and then proceeds to bogey, double, double to stay right at his handicap. I know, I know, a whole different can of worms...

 

The course assigns a golfer a HC if they don't have a GHIN already established; in this case the 10HC is legit and has a GHIN. You will have that group that will say people fudge on putting scores in as well. Don't know how the Integrity issue can be resolved totally here.

 

I agree Match play tournament's are tough; to me one of the toughest opponents is the one who plays better when pressure is on; opposed to an everyday routine 18 hole golf outing. Could be the 13HC shooting high 70's?

 

Or the 15HC-20HC who just will practice and get better but not play that many rounds; so when a big event comes they clean house...

 

I definitely agree, however, you seem to have a lot of statistical improbabilities going on at your club. Good luck the rest of the way!

 

Indeed we do have a lot of statistical improbabilities happening not only in match play but also other stroke play events. It's very competitive around here to be sure just like at most golf clubs and I think it's hard for most here to handle defeat. So HC's seem to be off to give some cushion or margin for error in one's game. The pro said HC's will be adjusted after each match if there needs to be this year; so will see what happens. I just don't know how much they can be adjusted with such a wide range, like the other day as mentioned above a 10HC was -2 at one point in match and ended the match on hole 15 at -1. The 12 HC that he was playing hung around for 15 holes so his HC must have been off as well if you see what I'm getting at. There was an 8HC last year who had 7 birdies in one of his match play rounds. I just still think some players shoot better(play above there norm) when more is on the line...

[SkiSchoolPro]

Obviously, mid teen cappers shooting close to par seems off, but I don't recall seeing the course rating (or slope and par) of the course in question.

 

FWIW, I have played a lot with a mid-teen capper who often times does not break 90 from the tips (par 69, cr of 66, slope 117), but has posted 73 or 74 in league STROKE PLAY (no conceded putts, no adjusts) events when he plays from the Sr tees (cr 62, slope 101). Despite the low CR & Slope from the Tips, there are some holes that are pretty scary for many mid teen cappers...not so much from the white tees. There are some guys who fall apart after a bad hole or two, but can be pretty tough when they get on a roll.

[davep043]

I just still think some players shoot better(play above there norm) when more is on the line...

This is one argument against posting of rounds played alone, or even posting non-competition scores. If the primary use of a handicap is to even up competitions, perhaps the handicap should be based on scores shot in competition. I know, its a little off-topic, but I believe its part of the discussion.

[Gapwedger7]

I just still think some players shoot better(play above there norm) when more is on the line...

This is one argument against posting of rounds played alone, or even posting non-competition scores. If the primary use of a handicap is to even up competitions, perhaps the handicap should be based on scores shot in competition. I know, its a little off-topic, but I believe its part of the discussion.

 

davep043,

 

I think you make an excellent point here, I would agree that a true HC needs to be based on competitive play, there would be some details to iron out but, I did not even think about an option like that.

[Gapwedger7]

Obviously, mid teen cappers shooting close to par seems off, but I don't recall seeing the course rating (or slope and par) of the course in question.

 

FWIW, I have played a lot with a mid-teen capper who often times does not break 90 from the tips (par 69, cr of 66, slope 117), but has posted 73 or 74 in league STROKE PLAY (no conceded putts, no adjusts) events when he plays from the Sr tees (cr 62, slope 101). Despite the low CR & Slope from the Tips, there are some holes that are pretty scary for many mid teen cappers...not so much from the white tees. There are some guys who fall apart after a bad hole or two, but can be pretty tough when they get on a roll.

 

Here is basic information about the course for what it's worth:

 

The 18-hole International City Golf Club in Warner Robins, Georgia is a public golf course that opened in 1957. Designed by Lou Burnett, International City Golf Club measures 5684 yards from the longest tees and has a slope rating of 112 and a 66.8 USGA rating. The course features 3 sets of tees for different skill levels

[Gapwedger7]

Obviously, mid teen cappers shooting close to par seems off, but I don't recall seeing the course rating (or slope and par) of the course in question.

 

FWIW, I have played a lot with a mid-teen capper who often times does not break 90 from the tips (par 69, cr of 66, slope 117), but has posted 73 or 74 in league STROKE PLAY (no conceded putts, no adjusts) events when he plays from the Sr tees (cr 62, slope 101). Despite the low CR & Slope from the Tips, there are some holes that are pretty scary for many mid teen cappers...not so much from the white tees. There are some guys who fall apart after a bad hole or two, but can be pretty tough when they get on a roll.

 

Here is basic information about the course for what it's worth:

 

The 18-hole International City Golf Club in Warner Robins, Georgia is a public golf course that opened in 1957. Designed by Lou Burnett, International City Golf Club measures 5684 yards from the longest tees and has a slope rating of 112 and a 66.8 USGA rating. The course features 3 sets of tees for different skill levels

 

SkiSchoolPro,

 

In my experience Mid-handicappers that practice regularly and our familiar with a course can be very dangerous in Match Play; if they play smart and execute there hard to beat. Momentum is huge and your right some players fold after having a bad hole or two; then some players rise above it and perform better.

[Ivyguy]

Some guys game is better for match play.

 

I play very well for 14-16 holes. But a snappy drive or a shank and I have a double or worse. Its kinda a running joke in my groups. I look like a stud for 9 holes, good player for another handful then a 30 cap for 2 or 3.

 

Had a guy in a match say he wanted to break my wedge and putter and see how good I'd be then. I didn't really get it until I rolled in a 15 footer to halve a hole (I conceded his 2 foot par putt)

 

Another guy i play with rarely makes birdies. Pars and some bogeys, shots about the same as me. I beat him like a drum consistently. The only holes he can win is if the guy makes bogey or worse.

 

It's the format of the game.

 

I've seen some shakey players beat strong ones because of a birdie or bust mentality

[Gapwedger7]

Update!

 

I won my second round of match play; it was one of the toughest matches I've been a part of. The acting pro adjusted my HC from a 16 to a 13 for round 2. My opponent(His first match; had a bye) happened to be a 13 HC; so it ended up being a straight up match. The match itself was pretty much back and forth all day. My opponent looked like a pro off the tee; and was either on the green or just off the green on nearly every hole. The only thing he was lacking was consistently making putts. My putter was horrible on 5 to 6 footers but managed to make 4 putts that were outside of 20 feet. Short of it, was we were (AS ) going into hole 17/18 and he bogeyed both while I pared both to win the match. My opponent played that day like a 5HC ; after the match he said that was one hec of a match and he could not complain because he shot one of his better rounds. So he was a very good sport about it. More updates to come...

[Gapwedger7]

Some guys game is better for match play.

 

I play very well for 14-16 holes. But a snappy drive or a shank and I have a double or worse. Its kinda a running joke in my groups. I look like a stud for 9 holes, good player for another handful then a 30 cap for 2 or 3.

 

Had a guy in a match say he wanted to break my wedge and putter and see how good I'd be then. I didn't really get it until I rolled in a 15 footer to halve a hole (I conceded his 2 foot par putt)

 

Another guy i play with rarely makes birdies. Pars and some bogeys, shots about the same as me. I beat him like a drum consistently. The only holes he can win is if the guy makes bogey or worse.

 

It's the format of the game.

 

 

Ivyguy,

 

Exactly! To most of your points is why I like match play....

 

 

 

 

Ivy

 

I've seen some shakey players beat strong ones because of a birdie or bust mentality

[davep043]

Update!

 

I won my second round of match play; it was one of the toughest matches I've been a part of. The acting pro adjusted my HC from a 16 to a 13 for round 2. My opponent(His first match; had a bye) happened to be a 13 HC; so it ended up being a straight up match. The match itself was pretty much back and forth all day. My opponent looked like a pro off the tee; and was either on the green or just off the green on nearly every hole. The only thing he was lacking was consistently making putts. My putter was horrible on 5 to 6 footers but managed to make 4 putts that were outside of 20 feet. Short of it, was we were (AS ) going into hole 17/18 and he bogeyed both while I pared both to win the match. My opponent played that day like a 5HC ; after the match he said that was one hec of a match and he could not complain because he shot one of his better rounds. So he was a very good sport about it. More updates to come...

If he played like a 5, and you won 2-up, what did YOU play like?

[Gapwedger7]

Update!

 

I won my second round of match play; it was one of the toughest matches I've been a part of. The acting pro adjusted my HC from a 16 to a 13 for round 2. My opponent(His first match; had a bye) happened to be a 13 HC; so it ended up being a straight up match. The match itself was pretty much back and forth all day. My opponent looked like a pro off the tee; and was either on the green or just off the green on nearly every hole. The only thing he was lacking was consistently making putts. My putter was horrible on 5 to 6 footers but managed to make 4 putts that were outside of 20 feet. Short of it, was we were (AS ) going into hole 17/18 and he bogeyed both while I pared both to win the match. My opponent played that day like a 5HC ; after the match he said that was one hec of a match and he could not complain because he shot one of his better rounds. So he was a very good sport about it. More updates to come...

If he played like a 5, and you won 2-up, what did YOU play like?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

davep043

 

Similar to what my opponent shot; around a 5HC or so; guess my HC will be down to a 10 or 11 HC for the next match :)

[davep043]

 

If he played like a 5, and you won 2-up, what did YOU play like?

 

davep043

 

Similar to what my opponent shot; around a 5HC or so; guess my HC will be down to a 10 or 11 HC for the next match :)

Let me ask a different way. I remember you don't use a USGA handicap in your league, but if you keep a handicap, you're required to post these match-play rounds. What score did did you post, or what would you have posted if you did keep a USGA Handicap??

[Gapwedger7]

If he played like a 5, and you won 2-up, what did YOU play like?

 

davep043

 

Similar to what my opponent shot; around a 5HC or so; guess my HC will be down to a 10 or 11 HC for the next match :)

Let me ask a different way. I remember you don't use a USGA handicap in your league, but if you keep a handicap, you're required to post these match-play rounds. What score did did you post, or what would you have posted if you did keep a USGA Handicap??

 

davep043,

 

That is a great question! The score I turned in(to pro shop) for round 2 match was a 76; was it a legit 76 very hard to say; one of many examples for this match I will is use would be hole 13; I was on green in regulation in 2 and had a 10 footer for birdie; my opponent reached the green in 5 and conceded the hole to me; by the acting rules in place for our club match play a birdie went down on the card for me. At this time for this year I do not have an established GHIN; just got back into playing about 2 months ago. If I had an official GHIN I'm not sure what score should have been posted as the rules for match play in this case can make scores much better than they appear.

[davep043]

If he played like a 5, and you won 2-up, what did YOU play like?

 

davep043

 

Similar to what my opponent shot; around a 5HC or so; guess my HC will be down to a 10 or 11 HC for the next match :)

Let me ask a different way. I remember you don't use a USGA handicap in your league, but if you keep a handicap, you're required to post these match-play rounds. What score did did you post, or what would you have posted if you did keep a USGA Handicap??

 

davep043,

 

That is a great question! The score I turned in(to pro shop) for round 2 match was a 76; was it a legit 76 very hard to say; one of many examples for this match I will is use would be hole 13; I was on green in regulation in 2 and had a 10 footer for birdie; my opponent reached the green in 5 and conceded the hole to me; by the acting rules in place for our club match play a birdie went down on the card for me. At this time for this year I do not have an established GHIN; just got back into playing about 2 months ago. If I had an official GHIN I'm not sure what score should have been posted as the rules for match play in this case can make scores much better than they appear.

The USGA Handicap Rule 4.1 say that for a hole you don't finish, you should record the score that you most likely would have made. In this case, you would most likely 2-putt from 10 feet, even if you're a PGA pro. You league rules do indeed result in lower scores. If you do begin to use keep a USGA handicap, remember that for the future. And don't feel bad if you end up posting a higher score for your USGA handicap than your league records, you're just following the USGA rules. Of course, keep the scorecard and notes, in case someone has questions later on. And of course, this stuff could be revised when the Worldwide Handicap System is finalized for the 2020 season.

[Gapwedger7]

dave043,

 

Thanks for the information!

[Gapwedger7]

Another Update!

 

Next match coming up sometime in the next week or so; play the opponent who put me out last year in the semi-finals. His current HC for this event is a 5 even though he has shot under par in his prior match so will have my hands full.

[Gapwedger7]

Follow up Update:

 

I won match against the 5HC and will advance to semi-finals. Won 2&1...

[Gapwedger7]

Another update!

 

Down to the final four of our club match play. Of the four players left the lowest HC left is an 8...

[Gapwedger7]

Well,

 

My run in match play is now over; was beat on the 15th hole yesterday, my opponent played very well. He was 2 over par through the 15 holes we played. I shot about my norm, was only 1D after 9 holes. My opponent was over 60 so he got to play from the senior tees. He took advantage of it to is credit. He was just accurate and did not make mistakes. The key was his bad shots were very good misses. Anyway on to the next big club event that happens in two weeks.