Look, Either Keep Score or Don't...

[deadsolid...shank]

Because in match play you can concede putts and not even finish holes - especially if your opponent has a bad run - you could pick up par after par, not hard. So totally your comfort zone. And a couple of rounds do not a season make.

 

BTW - I think Finley is still owed at least a contrite nod to your totally OTT responses to his early post (about how a ball lies, yes sits on the ground), due to your lack of reading comprehension, contempt for the rules of the game, and/or plain 'ol good sense to understand his post correctly.

 

Who is Finley?

 

Finleysg, the person you claimed to have said something that wasn't said at all, check your own reply.

You're right I don't pay close attention to everyone's name, every response.... My reading comprehension is fine. Unless I play it down, play by every rule as per the ROG and count every stroke then my scores are a figment of my imagination and I am a cheater.

 

But that's fine, I'm perfectly okay with that as I am having fun and counting as I want to.

 

It is what it is.....

 

U2H, did you read the reply Halebob linked? I think that’s where a lot of the animosity started. When he said “it’s just a lie” it was in reference to the lie of the ball on the course (becasue rolling the ball was in question). He wasn’t calling anyone a liar. Just trying to explain how he felt about he came to his final score.

 

At least that’s how I interpreted it.

[Under2hours]

Because in match play you can concede putts and not even finish holes - especially if your opponent has a bad run - you could pick up par after par, not hard. So totally your comfort zone. And a couple of rounds do not a season make.

 

BTW - I think Finley is still owed at least a contrite nod to your totally OTT responses to his early post (about how a ball lies, yes sits on the ground), due to your lack of reading comprehension, contempt for the rules of the game, and/or plain 'ol good sense to understand his post correctly.

 

Who is Finley?

 

Finleysg, the person you claimed to have said something that wasn't said at all, check your own reply.

You're right I don't pay close attention to everyone's name, every response.... My reading comprehension is fine. Unless I play it down, play by every rule as per the ROG and count every stroke then my scores are a figment of my imagination and I am a cheater.

 

But that's fine, I'm perfectly okay with that as I am having fun and counting as I want to.

 

It is what it is.....

 

U2H, did you read the reply Halebob linked? I think that's where a lot of the animosity started. When he said "it's just a lie" it was in reference to the lie of the ball on the course (becasue rolling the ball was in question). He wasn't calling anyone a liar. Just trying to explain how he felt about he came to his final score.

 

At least that's how I interpreted it.

Really not a big deal. Will admit I have fun here and when i golf. But people do call me a cheater and many question my HC. Again not concerned as what I want is people to enjoy the game and have fun when we play together.

 

Only two things really turn me off on golf and that is slow deliberate players and those who are sticklers for rules and will point it out to you (as the OP did to a person he never met).

[rogolf]

 

Really not a big deal. Will admit I have fun here and when i golf. But people do call me a cheater and many question my HC. Again not concerned as what I want is people to enjoy the game and have fun when we play together.

 

Only two things really turn me off on golf and that is slow deliberate players and those who are sticklers for rules and will point it out to you (as the OP did to a person he never met).

If you're concerned abut "sticklers for Rules" why are you lurking/trolling on a Rules of golf forum? Hopefully you consider it educational?

[Cwebb]

"You call it whatever you'd like to call it". :stop:

 

You pinned him to the panel, with that one. :lol:

[finleysg]

In u2h's defense, I'm not always a clear communicator. But I did find the reaction pretty amusing. Maybe it was a Freudian thing!?

 

Most people who play the ball down and in try to do that by the rules. It doesn't mean we don't make mistakes, but that's our intent. One of my points what that it really isn't that hard most of the time. Find it, hit it. Another is that if you're going to keep a handicap (i.e. the number you shoot has some importance to you), then playing by the rules makes more sense. Otherwise you're sort of inventing when you get a putt or a roll or whatever. Calvin-ball is way more complicated that just playing the ball down.

[HatsForBats]

I think there's a threshold, probably right around 10 handicap, where it becomes pretty easy to play by the rules. I certainly try to play by the rules, but if I'm playing in some event that allows other rules, like rolling the ball, I'm going to take advantage of those rules as necessary because it impacts me economically. But I'm not going to post those scores, also for economic purposes (and its against the rules).

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=8

 

As somewhat of an aside....

 

Tonight I played a very good round in league match play for 9 holes. By their rules I shot a 1 over par but that includes 1 hole where I knocked a tee ball OB, dropped near where it went out and took a 1 stroke penalty. I will post the score using the league rules. As it turns out it wouldn't make a difference as it was a hole I should get a stroke and made a bogey under the leagues rules. Someone can scream Vanity Cap until they are blue in the face and I just don't care. It is such a minimal impact on my handicap and it is such a great league to play in. I would tell the USGA, or a player that wanted to change the league rules, to stuff it long before I would try to change the leagues rules. They are their for the purpose of enjoying golf and doing a very good job of it. That's good for the game in my book.

[Under2hours]

In u2h's defense, I'm not always a clear communicator. But I did find the reaction pretty amusing. Maybe it was a Freudian thing!?

 

Most people who play the ball down and in try to do that by the rules. It doesn't mean we don't make mistakes, but that's our intent. One of my points what that it really isn't that hard most of the time. Find it, hit it. Another is that if you're going to keep a handicap (i.e. the number you shoot has some importance to you), then playing by the rules makes more sense. Otherwise you're sort of inventing when you get a putt or a roll or whatever. Calvin-ball is way more complicated that just playing the ball down.

 

Again all the power to you unless you slow me down and play as if it is Sunday final group in the Open.

 

The point 80%+ don't play that way and the thread was about a guy showing another guy (he never met) up when going over their scores.

[dhc1]

Again can't argue with a rulie....... And yes it is derogatory.

 

I do think until you are a single HC you should be lax with rules as watching a 20+HC playing by the rules, go back to the tee to hit again, trying to hit out of fescue that Dustin Johnson can barely advance the ball, or take 3 shots out of the bunker, then skull over the green and then start over again is just no fun for anyone.

 

I have access to a amateur site that has has flighted tournaments and to see holes where people shoot 11+ and are still grinding it out just is anethema to me.

 

Yesterday another 12 HC on our short 310 yard hole hit it in the fescue, then hit a tree and bounced back in the fescue 15 yards further. Chopped it still in the fescue and then a hosel 45 degrees into the trees. He asked me to pick up his ball as he had no need to play out the hole for a 8-11 (I can only imagine if it was a 420 yard hole). I felt bad for him (btw he had 2 birdies and strong back nine, though another blowup hole).

 

Now the rulie playing it down would still be grinding......

 

So let's get this straight - Guy with a complete vanity index of 13.2 that fluffs his lies and rakes short but miss-able putts makes fun of a 20 HC that got that handicap by playing by the rules. I'd be willing to bet money that in reality this guy is actually a better golfer than you, but you make fun of his handicap. But you live in la la land and are a "13 HC" that doesn't even play it as it lies, take correct penalties or putt out. Amazing.

 

So in summary: You don't even follow the most basic rules of golf and still keep score, but you also take a step further and post these scores and maintain a handicap. But WAIT, there's more! You then even go so far as to make fun of those who have a higher handicap than you. Man you're delusional.

 

Because you know me so well????? Typical internet tough guy. Yup my HC (below 13.2 now) is a complete fabrication and I actually don't play the game at all and am a troll....

 

Oh and the 95% who all cheat when they play with me except my "rulie" friend, who I dearly love but is not a lot of fun to play with anymore because of his habit of playing it down and citing rules.

 

Honest question - for the scores that you posted to get your 13.2 (or now lower) index, did you play the ball down?

 

No one I know or play with, except the Rulie or in a Tournament setting, all of whom post scores Plays it Down. I played the match play and we conceded holes and gave putts. Both of us posted scores.....

 

I told you the examples from Sunday..... One posted a 73 and both other golfers had at least one hole where they picked up their balls as they had enough of the hole (yes I know there is escape), but the rulie will play all 11+ shots. He told me the story where he 4 balls into the hazard and he and his partners searched for the full 5 minutes and eventually as the clock expired found his first one. He too said his partners were none to happy.

 

If I'm such a vanity capper, how did I qualify for the match play and then when I play shot below my cap?

 

 

 

Yep Cheaters......

 

Do you play by the rules when you're in a tournament or will you roll out of divots, etc.?

[dhc1]

Bravo...... I played my first event and it was match play, where I needed to qualify. It was fun and an experience. The point is to meet people and have fun. I don't have fun with those "who play it down" as their idea of golf is different then mine.

 

The other day I hit it right down the middle and right into a fresh divot...... Yep I moved it and certainly would do that every single time I play.

 

I think this answers my previous question about whether you play by the rules in tournaments. Fair?

 

FWIW - I think the OP was pompous wrt the other player. There are lots of guys I play with who have vanity handicaps and give themselves generous putts (although it's conceivably within the "most likely score" zone) - I just smile when they tell me their alleged score while simultaneously paying out what they owe on the match.

[dhc1]

This one is easy - you should have DQ'd him from the casual round for sweeping away a 5 ft putt on the first hole and then not correcting his breach of the rules.

 

What is the point of raking a 5 footer and calling it good other than the fact that you're afraid you are going to miss it? The only instance where I can see this as a possibility is for some reason your group is way behind and is holding up play. I honestly find gimmes in golf fascinating. The entire point of the game is to get the ball in the hole, but people insist on skipping this part?. In what other sport do you not finish out a result? In basketball someone has a breakaway with no one else even close.. Does he complete the layup? Or does he just stop and give the ball to the other team to inbound and say "oh that was a gimme, give our team 2 points."

 

Do you play match play? If so, do you concede putts?

 

When I play with my kids, they like to "hear the sound" of the ball hitting the cup. Serious players who have a 12 inch putt (not 5 feet)? Not so much.

[Hot Rod 71]

I see some discussion here from a few folks about gimmies in match play, implying this is the same as raking in a 5 footer in a stroke play round. Gimmies allowed by the ROG in match play. However, the player is supposed to record his "most likely" score for the hole for posting purposes.

 

If you are left with a 15 footer for bogey and your opponent makes par from 25 feet, then you should record the score you would most likely make. If you feel you would likely make the putt, then you record a bogey. I think for me (a low handicapper) a two putt would be most likely so I would record a double bogey.

[jaygween]

This one is easy - you should have DQ'd him from the casual round for sweeping away a 5 ft putt on the first hole and then not correcting his breach of the rules.

 

What is the point of raking a 5 footer and calling it good other than the fact that you're afraid you are going to miss it? The only instance where I can see this as a possibility is for some reason your group is way behind and is holding up play. I honestly find gimmes in golf fascinating. The entire point of the game is to get the ball in the hole, but people insist on skipping this part?. In what other sport do you not finish out a result? In basketball someone has a breakaway with no one else even close.. Does he complete the layup? Or does he just stop and give the ball to the other team to inbound and say "oh that was a gimme, give our team 2 points."

 

Do you play match play? If so, do you concede putts?

 

When I play with my kids, they like to "hear the sound" of the ball hitting the cup. Serious players who have a 12 inch putt (not 5 feet)? Not so much.

 

I can't remember the last time I've played match play. However, a lot of the groups I play with on the weekends will call putts good and pick up. Do I like picking up? No, but if the group gives me a putt I will pick it up even though I would rather putt it out. My goal is to play in some higher level state and local amateur tournaments so my preference is to putt everything out and play by the rules. Otherwise, when I get in a tournament I will embarrass myself. As I side note, I am also not grinding over these short putts either. I take a quick glance to get a read, step up and hit the putt.

 

When I play solo rounds after work during the week I putt everything out. The other day I missed a 1 footer. Would it happen often? Probably not, but I will have to putt those in a tournament, so that's what I want to do when I'm playing. When playing by myself I would also go back to the previous spot and take a S&D penalty if I lost a ball and didn't hit a provisional (assuming there is nobody behind me). However, I would not do this when playing with my weekend group as I don't want to slow them down, the course is probably more crowded, and on a hole that I am taking S&D I'm more than likely getting to my ESC anyway. So I would just take an illegal drop and post a double as my most likely score.

 

To get back to the OP's situation, I most likely would have just ignored the guy. But, IMO there is a giant difference between raking and calling your own putt good, and raking a putt that was given by your group. If you're really interested in keeping your own score, you're just lying to yourself if you're raking and calling your own 2-4 footers good.

[jdl]

When I play solo rounds after work during the week I putt everything out. The other day I missed a 1 footer. Would it happen often? Probably not, but I will have to putt those in a tournament, so that's what I want to do when I'm playing. When playing by myself I would also go back to the previous spot and take a S&D penalty if I lost a ball and didn't hit a provisional (assuming there is nobody behind me). However, I would not do this when playing with my weekend group as I don't want to slow them down, the course is probably more crowded, and on a hole that I am taking S&D I'm more than likely getting to my ESC anyway. So I would just take an illegal drop and post a double as my most likely score.

 

Well, if you're playing a solo round you can't post the score anyway, so it really doesn't matter. :)

[jmkenn0]

I think there's a threshold, probably right around 10 handicap, where it becomes pretty easy to play by the rules. I certainly try to play by the rules, but if I'm playing in some event that allows other rules, like rolling the ball, I'm going to take advantage of those rules as necessary because it impacts me economically. But I'm not going to post those scores, also for economic purposes (and its against the rules).

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=8

 

As somewhat of an aside....

 

Tonight I played a very good round in league match play for 9 holes. By their rules I shot a 1 over par but that includes 1 hole where I knocked a tee ball OB, dropped near where it went out and took a 1 stroke penalty. I will post the score using the league rules. As it turns out it wouldn't make a difference as it was a hole I should get a stroke and made a bogey under the leagues rules. Someone can scream Vanity Cap until they are blue in the face and I just don't care. It is such a minimal impact on my handicap and it is such a great league to play in. I would tell the USGA, or a player that wanted to change the league rules, to stuff it long before I would try to change the leagues rules. They are their for the purpose of enjoying golf and doing a very good job of it. That's good for the game in my book.

 

Similar league rules I play in, but I try to avoid the old OB :) - they also allow rolling the ball at any point in time. Some people do it on every shot, I play it down, but there are probably 2-3 holes where I'll roll a ball on a particular shot. So trying to calculate a 33% "X" rate gets a wonky.

[North Butte]

I think there's a threshold, probably right around 10 handicap, where it becomes pretty easy to play by the rules. I certainly try to play by the rules, but if I'm playing in some event that allows other rules, like rolling the ball, I'm going to take advantage of those rules as necessary because it impacts me economically. But I'm not going to post those scores, also for economic purposes (and its against the rules).

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=8

 

As somewhat of an aside....

 

Tonight I played a very good round in league match play for 9 holes. By their rules I shot a 1 over par but that includes 1 hole where I knocked a tee ball OB, dropped near where it went out and took a 1 stroke penalty. I will post the score using the league rules. As it turns out it wouldn't make a difference as it was a hole I should get a stroke and made a bogey under the leagues rules. Someone can scream Vanity Cap until they are blue in the face and I just don't care. It is such a minimal impact on my handicap and it is such a great league to play in. I would tell the USGA, or a player that wanted to change the league rules, to stuff it long before I would try to change the leagues rules. They are their for the purpose of enjoying golf and doing a very good job of it. That's good for the game in my book.

 

Similar league rules I play in, but I try to avoid the old OB :) - they also allow rolling the ball at any point in time. Some people do it on every shot, I play it down, but there are probably 2-3 holes where I'll roll a ball on a particular shot. So trying to calculate a 33% "X" rate gets a wonky.

 

I've mentioned up-thread the tension between my desire to play more or less by the rules (i.e. play it down and putt it out even if I don't necessarily pull the flagstick before putting or stick tees in the ground to measure drops) and playing in groups who want two off the first tee, roll 'em in your own fairway, inside the leather is good, etc.

 

On the one hand, if you sign up to play with the group you're only causing trouble if you insist on NOT following the group's made-up rules. On the other hand, if the group insists on playing a really "relaxed" set of rules then you aren't really talking about a score that's legit in the handicap system. But good luck getting the group to understand why you either don't post after the round or you post a number other than the pseudo-score that counted in the group's game.

[jmkenn0]

I think there's a threshold, probably right around 10 handicap, where it becomes pretty easy to play by the rules. I certainly try to play by the rules, but if I'm playing in some event that allows other rules, like rolling the ball, I'm going to take advantage of those rules as necessary because it impacts me economically. But I'm not going to post those scores, also for economic purposes (and its against the rules).

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=8

 

As somewhat of an aside....

 

Tonight I played a very good round in league match play for 9 holes. By their rules I shot a 1 over par but that includes 1 hole where I knocked a tee ball OB, dropped near where it went out and took a 1 stroke penalty. I will post the score using the league rules. As it turns out it wouldn't make a difference as it was a hole I should get a stroke and made a bogey under the leagues rules. Someone can scream Vanity Cap until they are blue in the face and I just don't care. It is such a minimal impact on my handicap and it is such a great league to play in. I would tell the USGA, or a player that wanted to change the league rules, to stuff it long before I would try to change the leagues rules. They are their for the purpose of enjoying golf and doing a very good job of it. That's good for the game in my book.

 

Similar league rules I play in, but I try to avoid the old OB :) - they also allow rolling the ball at any point in time. Some people do it on every shot, I play it down, but there are probably 2-3 holes where I'll roll a ball on a particular shot. So trying to calculate a 33% "X" rate gets a wonky.

 

I've mentioned up-thread the tension between my desire to play more or less by the rules (i.e. play it down and putt it out even if I don't necessarily pull the flagstick before putting or stick tees in the ground to measure drops) and playing in groups who want two off the first tee, roll 'em in your own fairway, inside the leather is good, etc.

 

On the one hand, if you sign up to play with the group you're only causing trouble if you insist on NOT following the group's made-up rules. On the other hand, if the group insists on playing a really "relaxed" set of rules then you aren't really talking about a score that's legit in the handicap system. But good luck getting the group to understand why you either don't post after the round or you post a number other than the pseudo-score that counted in the group's game.

 

Yeah this is a league that keeps their own handicap based on their own rules (OB drops/double par max/rolling the ball) - I know there are people who actually post on these scores, but they are screwing themselves. I play for enough money outside this league that I don't need any vanity, I want my handicap to reflect my true potential.

[North Butte]

I think there's a threshold, probably right around 10 handicap, where it becomes pretty easy to play by the rules. I certainly try to play by the rules, but if I'm playing in some event that allows other rules, like rolling the ball, I'm going to take advantage of those rules as necessary because it impacts me economically. But I'm not going to post those scores, also for economic purposes (and its against the rules).

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=8

 

As somewhat of an aside....

 

Tonight I played a very good round in league match play for 9 holes. By their rules I shot a 1 over par but that includes 1 hole where I knocked a tee ball OB, dropped near where it went out and took a 1 stroke penalty. I will post the score using the league rules. As it turns out it wouldn't make a difference as it was a hole I should get a stroke and made a bogey under the leagues rules. Someone can scream Vanity Cap until they are blue in the face and I just don't care. It is such a minimal impact on my handicap and it is such a great league to play in. I would tell the USGA, or a player that wanted to change the league rules, to stuff it long before I would try to change the leagues rules. They are their for the purpose of enjoying golf and doing a very good job of it. That's good for the game in my book.

 

Similar league rules I play in, but I try to avoid the old OB :) - they also allow rolling the ball at any point in time. Some people do it on every shot, I play it down, but there are probably 2-3 holes where I'll roll a ball on a particular shot. So trying to calculate a 33% "X" rate gets a wonky.

 

I've mentioned up-thread the tension between my desire to play more or less by the rules (i.e. play it down and putt it out even if I don't necessarily pull the flagstick before putting or stick tees in the ground to measure drops) and playing in groups who want two off the first tee, roll 'em in your own fairway, inside the leather is good, etc.

 

On the one hand, if you sign up to play with the group you're only causing trouble if you insist on NOT following the group's made-up rules. On the other hand, if the group insists on playing a really "relaxed" set of rules then you aren't really talking about a score that's legit in the handicap system. But good luck getting the group to understand why you either don't post after the round or you post a number other than the pseudo-score that counted in the group's game.

 

Yeah this is a league that keeps their own handicap based on their own rules (OB drops/double par max/rolling the ball) - I know there are people who actually post on these scores, but they are screwing themselves. I play for enough money outside this league that I don't need any vanity, I want my handicap to reflect my true potential.

 

Almost all of my play is either solo (no posting) or in one of two different groups with not too extreme non-Rule rules. So I almost always post the score I got in the group game (except for I have to putt out for my 7's instead of picking up at gross double bogey).

 

But I sort of "cheat" a little bit if none of my teammates are looking. I won't roll the ball unless it's obviously in a divot and one of my partners is standing right there looking. And I won't hit a second ball off the tee (in the one group who does that) unless the first one is likely lost or OB. So I try to play something pretty close to real golf and I'm guessing my GHIN index is within a stroke or so of where it would be if every round were outside of the group and legit.

 

The guys in those groups who take maximium advantage of every "Group Rule" freebie possible are no doubt vanity capping themselves by at least 2-3 strokes, maybe even more.

 

P.S. A couple weeks ago I got mildly rebuked by one of my blind-draw partners when he noticed me not taking advantage of a "Group Rule". I was just off the green with a tricky downhill, big-breaking chipt. My ball had a big old clump of mud on it and I just chipped it with the mud on. It veered way off course and came up 10 feet short. It could hardly roll with that mud on it. He said, "You aren't doing our team any favors hitting that mud ball. You know we all pick those up and clean 'em". I apologized, sort of.

[SnapHooker_307]

Really not a big deal. Will admit I have fun here and when i golf. But people do call me a cheater and many question my HC. Again not concerned as what I want is people to enjoy the game and have fun when we play together.

 

Only two things really turn me off on golf and that is slow deliberate players and those who are sticklers for rules and will point it out to you (as the OP did to a person he never met).

If you're concerned abut "sticklers for Rules" why are you lurking/trolling on a Rules of golf forum? Hopefully you consider it educational?

I used to have a similar attitude. Then I started paying more attention to the rules of golf forum and my attitude has changed considerably. It has definitely been educational and has actually helped me play a bit more consistently.

[dhc1]

What is the point of raking a 5 footer and calling it good other than the fact that you're afraid you are going to miss it? The only instance where I can see this as a possibility is for some reason your group is way behind and is holding up play. I honestly find gimmes in golf fascinating. The entire point of the game is to get the ball in the hole, but people insist on skipping this part?. In what other sport do you not finish out a result? In basketball someone has a breakaway with no one else even close.. Does he complete the layup? Or does he just stop and give the ball to the other team to inbound and say "oh that was a gimme, give our team 2 points."

 

Do you play match play? If so, do you concede putts?

 

When I play with my kids, they like to "hear the sound" of the ball hitting the cup. Serious players who have a 12 inch putt (not 5 feet)? Not so much.

 

I can't remember the last time I've played match play. However, a lot of the groups I play with on the weekends will call putts good and pick up. Do I like picking up? No, but if the group gives me a putt I will pick it up even though I would rather putt it out. My goal is to play in some higher level state and local amateur tournaments so my preference is to putt everything out and play by the rules. Otherwise, when I get in a tournament I will embarrass myself. As I side note, I am also not grinding over these short putts either. I take a quick glance to get a read, step up and hit the putt.

 

When I play solo rounds after work during the week I putt everything out. The other day I missed a 1 footer. Would it happen often? Probably not, but I will have to putt those in a tournament, so that's what I want to do when I'm playing. When playing by myself I would also go back to the previous spot and take a S&D penalty if I lost a ball and didn't hit a provisional (assuming there is nobody behind me). However, I would not do this when playing with my weekend group as I don't want to slow them down, the course is probably more crowded, and on a hole that I am taking S&D I'm more than likely getting to my ESC anyway. So I would just take an illegal drop and post a double as my most likely score.

 

To get back to the OP's situation, I most likely would have just ignored the guy. But, IMO there is a giant difference between raking and calling your own putt good, and raking a putt that was given by your group. If you're really interested in keeping your own score, you're just lying to yourself if you're raking and calling your own 2-4 footers good.

 

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

[North Butte]

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

 

To accommodate both the letter and spirit of the Rules, that putt counts as long as you made a legitimate best-faith effort to hole it.

 

If you've been conceded a 2-footer for par but you walk up and swat it toward the hole and miss, you need to post the par rather than a "bogey" that was due to not really trying to make the 2-footer.

[duffer987]

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

Disagree with NB.

 

Your next stroke was conceded by your opponent. Play on that hole is complete and you mark down your most likely score.

 

Putting afterwards is simple permissible practice around the greens - assuming you're not delaying the group behind.

[dhc1]

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

 

To accommodate both the letter and spirit of the Rules, that putt counts as long as you made a legitimate best-faith effort to hole it.

 

If you've been conceded a 2-footer for par but you walk up and swat it toward the hole and miss, you need to post the par rather than a "bogey" that was due to not really trying to make the 2-footer.

 

Thanks. Just to confirm, even though the putt was conceded and I miss a legitimate attempt to hole it despite the concession, I can post the miss?

 

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

Disagree with NB.

 

Your next stroke was conceded by your opponent. Play on that hole is complete and you mark down your most likely score.

 

Putting afterwards is simple permissible practice around the greens - assuming you're not delaying the group behind.

 

This was my guess at the answer btw.

[North Butte]

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

Disagree with NB.

 

Your next stroke was conceded by your opponent. Play on that hole is complete and you mark down your most likely score.

 

Putting afterwards is simple permissible practice around the greens - assuming you're not delaying the group behind.

 

OK, let's say the conceded putt for par as a 5-footer with some break to it. Do you write down "par" because that was conceded? Or do you write down "bogey" because you'd probably have missed it? Or do you seriously try to hole it and write down either "par" or "bogey" (or perhaps "double" if you 3-jack)?

 

Most likely is a nebulous term in the 4, 5, 6, 7 foot range depending on how good a putter you are.

 

And in 4BBB games (which under current USGA handicap rules were ARE supposed to post) the conceded 4, 5, 6, 7 footer is quite a common occurrance.

[duffer987]

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

Disagree with NB.

 

Your next stroke was conceded by your opponent. Play on that hole is complete and you mark down your most likely score.

 

Putting afterwards is simple permissible practice around the greens - assuming you're not delaying the group behind.

 

OK, let's say the conceded putt for par as a 5-footer with some break to it. Do you write down "par" because that was conceded? Or do you write down "bogey" because you'd probably have missed it? Or do you seriously try to hole it and write down either "par" or "bogey" (or perhaps "double" if you 3-jack)?

 

Most likely is a nebulous term in the 4, 5, 6, 7 foot range depending on how good a putter you are.

 

And in 4BBB games (which under current USGA handicap rules were ARE supposed to post) the conceded 4, 5, 6, 7 footer is quite a common occurrance.

 

Sure but now we're no longer talking about dhc1's question - or my reply - but what do you write down. Then you need to be like Hot Rod above and be as honest as possible.

[North Butte]

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

Disagree with NB.

 

Your next stroke was conceded by your opponent. Play on that hole is complete and you mark down your most likely score.

 

Putting afterwards is simple permissible practice around the greens - assuming you're not delaying the group behind.

 

OK, let's say the conceded putt for par as a 5-footer with some break to it. Do you write down "par" because that was conceded? Or do you write down "bogey" because you'd probably have missed it? Or do you seriously try to hole it and write down either "par" or "bogey" (or perhaps "double" if you 3-jack)?

 

Most likely is a nebulous term in the 4, 5, 6, 7 foot range depending on how good a putter you are.

 

And in 4BBB games (which under current USGA handicap rules were ARE supposed to post) the conceded 4, 5, 6, 7 footer is quite a common occurrance.

 

Sure but now we're no longer talking about dhc1's question - or my reply - but what do you write down. Then you need to be like Hot Rod above and be as honest as possible.

 

Excuse me, wasn't "... in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?" his question?

 

I'm describing match-play concessions involved putts of 4-7 feet in length.

[JohnnyCashForever]

I replied, "You call it whatever you'd like to call it."

 

 

Yankee directness, I love it. Not really...

 

+1 to Mr. 85 for handling an (unnecessarily) extremely awkward situation well.

[HatsForBats]

Yeah this is a league that keeps their own handicap based on their own rules (OB drops/double par max/rolling the ball) - I know there are people who actually post on these scores, but they are screwing themselves. I play for enough money outside this league that I don't need any vanity, I want my handicap to reflect my true potential.

 

If I was in a league that lax, and taking advantage of their rules, I likely would not be posting those scores. On the rare occasion I play with a group like that, say my once a year family outing where half the players may play a total of 8 rounds a year with 4 of them being during the outing, I just consider it practice. For my 9-hole league that has the OB rule I use it so infrequently that the impact is minimal. I will gladly take such a small hit on my handicap in trade for the enjoyment of the league.

 

There are enough other rounds that I play to a higher standard that it just doesn't have a big impact. In my experience once you start getting into 'enough money' is about the time when more nefarious activity is likely to start creeping in.

[NEhomer]

Fun thread.

 

.....seems to have come pretty much full circle for me. Keep your score or don't keep your score. I don't care which.

 

One last post repeating myself....I've played with this fellow before and we'll play again...it really was a much more casual comment than some of you are reading into it as it simply wasn't harsh or angry. Still, when I see him I'll mention that I had reservations about having said anything and it will be dropped.

[jaygween]

What is the point of raking a 5 footer and calling it good other than the fact that you're afraid you are going to miss it? The only instance where I can see this as a possibility is for some reason your group is way behind and is holding up play. I honestly find gimmes in golf fascinating. The entire point of the game is to get the ball in the hole, but people insist on skipping this part?. In what other sport do you not finish out a result? In basketball someone has a breakaway with no one else even close.. Does he complete the layup? Or does he just stop and give the ball to the other team to inbound and say "oh that was a gimme, give our team 2 points."

 

Do you play match play? If so, do you concede putts?

 

When I play with my kids, they like to "hear the sound" of the ball hitting the cup. Serious players who have a 12 inch putt (not 5 feet)? Not so much.

 

I can't remember the last time I've played match play. However, a lot of the groups I play with on the weekends will call putts good and pick up. Do I like picking up? No, but if the group gives me a putt I will pick it up even though I would rather putt it out. My goal is to play in some higher level state and local amateur tournaments so my preference is to putt everything out and play by the rules. Otherwise, when I get in a tournament I will embarrass myself. As I side note, I am also not grinding over these short putts either. I take a quick glance to get a read, step up and hit the putt.

 

When I play solo rounds after work during the week I putt everything out. The other day I missed a 1 footer. Would it happen often? Probably not, but I will have to putt those in a tournament, so that's what I want to do when I'm playing. When playing by myself I would also go back to the previous spot and take a S&D penalty if I lost a ball and didn't hit a provisional (assuming there is nobody behind me). However, I would not do this when playing with my weekend group as I don't want to slow them down, the course is probably more crowded, and on a hole that I am taking S&D I'm more than likely getting to my ESC anyway. So I would just take an illegal drop and post a double as my most likely score.

 

To get back to the OP's situation, I most likely would have just ignored the guy. But, IMO there is a giant difference between raking and calling your own putt good, and raking a putt that was given by your group. If you're really interested in keeping your own score, you're just lying to yourself if you're raking and calling your own 2-4 footers good.

 

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

 

All of my comments regarding gimmes have been with stroke play in mind. I understand conceded putts in match play and have no issues there.

 

If you ask a non-golfer or someone with very limited golf knowledge "What is the main objective in golf?" I'm guessing they are going to answer something along the lines of getting the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes. So my big picture thought on gimmes is why is pretty much the entire point of golf skipped by so many people who play the game? The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.

 

Can anyone think of any other popular sport/game that people regularly play where the most basic rule of the game is frequently ignored by those that play it? I'd say playing it as it lies is probably the other most basic rule of golf, which ironically is also probably the other most ignored rule of the game.

 

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, look down on, dictate how you play, etc. I'm just trying to understand the evolution of how the two most basic rules of the game are ignored by a huge percentage of those that play it.

[dhc1]

What is the point of raking a 5 footer and calling it good other than the fact that you're afraid you are going to miss it? The only instance where I can see this as a possibility is for some reason your group is way behind and is holding up play. I honestly find gimmes in golf fascinating. The entire point of the game is to get the ball in the hole, but people insist on skipping this part?. In what other sport do you not finish out a result? In basketball someone has a breakaway with no one else even close.. Does he complete the layup? Or does he just stop and give the ball to the other team to inbound and say "oh that was a gimme, give our team 2 points."

 

Do you play match play? If so, do you concede putts?

 

When I play with my kids, they like to "hear the sound" of the ball hitting the cup. Serious players who have a 12 inch putt (not 5 feet)? Not so much.

 

I can't remember the last time I've played match play. However, a lot of the groups I play with on the weekends will call putts good and pick up. Do I like picking up? No, but if the group gives me a putt I will pick it up even though I would rather putt it out. My goal is to play in some higher level state and local amateur tournaments so my preference is to putt everything out and play by the rules. Otherwise, when I get in a tournament I will embarrass myself. As I side note, I am also not grinding over these short putts either. I take a quick glance to get a read, step up and hit the putt.

 

When I play solo rounds after work during the week I putt everything out. The other day I missed a 1 footer. Would it happen often? Probably not, but I will have to putt those in a tournament, so that's what I want to do when I'm playing. When playing by myself I would also go back to the previous spot and take a S&D penalty if I lost a ball and didn't hit a provisional (assuming there is nobody behind me). However, I would not do this when playing with my weekend group as I don't want to slow them down, the course is probably more crowded, and on a hole that I am taking S&D I'm more than likely getting to my ESC anyway. So I would just take an illegal drop and post a double as my most likely score.

 

To get back to the OP's situation, I most likely would have just ignored the guy. But, IMO there is a giant difference between raking and calling your own putt good, and raking a putt that was given by your group. If you're really interested in keeping your own score, you're just lying to yourself if you're raking and calling your own 2-4 footers good.

 

I agree with this sentiment but that's very different from what you originally stated wrt gimmes and the comparison to a basketball layup. In match play, it is considered bad grace to not concede a very short putt (subjectively determined by the one conceding and agreed that 5 foot doesn't count unless the opponent is out of the hole.)

 

Question for rules aficionados: in match play, after accepting the gimme I sometimes still putt it out for my score after the hole is either won/lost/draw. Is that allowable or do I have to use "most likely score?"

 

All of my comments regarding gimmes have been with stroke play in mind. I understand conceded putts in match play and have no issues there.

 

If you ask a non-golfer or someone with very limited golf knowledge "What is the main objective in golf?" I'm guessing they are going to answer something along the lines of getting the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes. So my big picture thought on gimmes is why is pretty much the entire point of golf skipped by so many people who play the game? The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.

 

Can anyone think of any other popular sport/game that people regularly play where the most basic rule of the game is frequently ignored by those that play it? I'd say playing it as it lies is probably the other most basic rule of golf, which ironically is also probably the other most ignored rule of the game.

 

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, look down on, dictate how you play, etc. I'm just trying to understand the evolution of how the two most basic rules of the game are ignored by a huge percentage of those that play it.

 

The evolution of the game started as match play and it seems completely wrong to say that the most basic rule is getting the ball in the hole. I'd say 90% of my rounds involve match play of some sort as do many people who belong to clubs where they play with fellow members. One can do this and easily not have a vanity handicap

 

If you've ever played with professional golfers (both teaching and touring) in casual rounds, they always play with conceded putts.