Jump to content

Why is golf the same and yet so different?


Recommended Posts

You throw a baseball your weight just transfers you do not think about it but in Golf swing early extension comes into play or a stall. You hammer a nail into a post your right wrist is naturally bent and your left wrist is flat.I golf you can break the right wrist and then a flip or casting with poor impact position.Is the problem the brain gets in the way?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 18
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Throwing a baseball is actually more mechanical than you think, especially for pitchers...what you may see as a natural perfect throw, many baseball players would see as an eye sore with room for major improvement

 

 

That reminds me of 6th grade. In the neighborhood was always considered one of the better “athletes”. Well in PE we had this softball throwing quiz. This one kid I had never met, rears back in almost slow motion and nearly doubles my distance. Now granted I was well aware by 6th grade I didn’t have an arm, but I couldn’t fathom how this kid could throw that far with such little effort. Yep you couldn't have said it better. All about form. If you don’t have it, all that effort in the gym is wasted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You throw a baseball your weight just transfers you do not think about it but in Golf swing early extension comes into play or a stall. You hammer a nail into a post your right wrist is naturally bent and your left wrist is flat.I golf you can break the right wrist and then a flip or casting with poor impact position.Is the problem the brain gets in the way?

 

The same kind of good things will happen in golf as well, but you have to SWING the club and then let the good things happen. If you try to force the good things to happen you are likely to do them too soon, too late, too much, not enough, etc.

 

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

most other sports or reactive

 

In golf we become ball or hit focused. Many players are focused on lifting or helping the ball in the air .... or they try to steer it into a safe spot

Ping G400 Max 10.5* Graphite Design AD XC 6x

Ping G400 5w 16.9* Blueboard 63x & 7w 19.5* Bboard 73x 

Cally Apex '19 4h & 5h 26* Fubuki 82x

Callaway x-forged UT 27* AD DI 85x

Srixon ZX7 7 - PW PX Catalyst 100 6.5 
Vokey TVD M 51* & TVD M 57* Oil s400 

Vokey SM2 Oil Finish 63* DG TI s400 

Scotty GoLo 7 (35g weights)
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting topic.

 

I think there's many components to this - one of which is cultural. At least here in the US, throwing a ball overhand is commonly learned at a very early age. Baseball being a part of our culture is likely the main reason for this. Even kids who don't play baseball (and the numbers are shrinking, I think) are exposed to enough baseball and "baseball like play" to learn how to have a fairly serviceable overhand throw. Certainly most of them are not good enough to be a pitcher in competitive baseball, but it's generally reasonable. Go to any picnic at a public park and you'll likely see kids and their parents throwing a ball.

 

Take someone who didn't have overhand throwing as a common activity in their youth - their technique, frankly, is atrocious. To them, there is nothing at all natural about throwing a a ball. A lot of them look like throwing equivalents of Charles Barkley's golf swing.

 

But, I agree with the OP that folks get too robotic about it and many golf swings you see are the antithesis of athletic.

 

[On a side note, who here has watched the MLB Home Run Derby? Those guys tossing the pitches to the batters are throwing in the 55-60mph range, some maybe a bit faster. Not fast, for sure, but they look like they're just lightly tossing the ball with seemingly zero effort. Go to any MLB park and they all have those fun zones where fans can get their throwing speeds measured on a radar gun. You'll see large, full grown men throwing with all their might, struggling to break 60mph.]

Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time you saw anyone that sucked at basketball, or baseball, or hockey, play those sports. That's the thing about golf, everyone thinks they can play it well and with practice and playing enough can get really good. That's not reality.

 

If golf was played by just those people that had a natural ability to swing well, we wouldn't need all this high level instruction and 1,000s of books and videos on how to swing. How many books and videos do you find on how to shoot or pass a basketball, or throw and football or hit a hockey puck. Those people doing that, for the most part, are already naturally able to do it, or they wouldn't be doing it. Golf is different. Its an easy sport to walk, or ride 18. You get out of the cart hit the ball and ride again. You don't need to be in great physical condition to play golf. So lots of people take it up. But the majority will never break 80, or even 90.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting topic.

 

I think there's many components to this - one of which is cultural. At least here in the US, throwing a ball overhand is commonly learned at a very early age. Baseball being a part of our culture is likely the main reason for this. Even kids who don't play baseball (and the numbers are shrinking, I think) are exposed to enough baseball and "baseball like play" to learn how to have a fairly serviceable overhand throw. Certainly most of them are not good enough to be a pitcher in competitive baseball, but it's generally reasonable. Go to any picnic at a public park and you'll likely see kids and their parents throwing a ball.

 

Take someone who didn't have overhand throwing as a common activity in their youth - their technique, frankly, is atrocious. To them, there is nothing at all natural about throwing a a ball. A lot of them look like throwing equivalents of Charles Barkley's golf swing.

 

But, I agree with the OP that folks get too robotic about it and many golf swings you see are the antithesis of athletic.

 

[On a side note, who here has watched the MLB Home Run Derby? Those guys tossing the pitches to the batters are throwing in the 55-60mph range, some maybe a bit faster. Not fast, for sure, but they look like they're just lightly tossing the ball with seemingly zero effort. Go to any MLB park and they all have those fun zones where fans can get their throwing speeds measured on a radar gun. You'll see large, full grown men throwing with all their might, struggling to break 60mph.]

 

I never had a natural ability to throw overhand. I played lots of softball. I threw sidearm. I never could really throw as accurately or as fast overhand as I could sidearm.

 

You have to adapt to your natural abilities. That''s why I don't like a "position" swing. That's also why lots of people should not be trying to play golf. Though those people spend a lot of money in the sport!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that makes the swing so difficult is the fact that the ball is way down on the ground and the club is attached to your shoulders.

 

Your shoulders are where the base of the whole action is. This couldnt be any further away. In no other sport (kicking a ball with legs that are attached to hips) or activity (swinging a hammer etc) is the hub of the action so far from the object.

 

The hub is so high up that it has to be on a seperate plane from the ball, so there is a switch from plane to plane in the backswing and in the transition. If you dont switch planes in transition, you get OTT. Thats why everyone swings OTT. Because the shoulders are way up high and the ball is way down low.

 

 

 

Add to this the fact that the ball couldnt be much smaller. All of this makes the task so incredibly difficult that it often requires some sort of thought or physical correction for most people.

 

 

The one similar movement to a golf swing is squaring an axe up to a tree stump. Paul Azinger really loves this analogy. In fact he described it as a real breakthrough for him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to play devil's advocate: Why do you think throwing a rock or baseball or whatever gets you any better results than swinging a golf club? I would venture to say that if we applied the same type of objective criteria (height, direction, distance) to a throw as a swing we'd find the results are pretty similar; i.e. we wouldn't be much more successful at throwing than at swinging. For example, and I think this was pointed out above, if you tried to be a pitcher, do you think you'd be any better at it than at golf? I understand many (most) of us take up throwing very early and do it often in many different contexts, which is a factor, as is the fact that your overhand throwing muscles are probably stronger than the ones you use when you throw underhand. However, I think we exaggerate the difference in success rate, especially throwing underhand vs. golf swing.

 

Now the above is said stipulating to the fact of the elephant in the room: In golf you are putting yourself in a bad position when the ball rests on the ground. Your sub (un?) conscious is going to try to protect you by avoiding that ground. But if you tee up the ball then it's easier and in that case I don't think you'd see a heck of a lot of difference between the two.

 

Yea, well, OK, now that I think about it, maybe I overstated my case. :) There's also the fact that when you're throwing you have direct contact with the thing you're throwing, in golf you've got to control a long club and particularly the face when it hits the ball. I guess my point is just that we DO tend to exaggerate how well we throw a ball as compared to hit a golf ball because we simply don't judge the thrown ball as critically as we do the golf ball.

"The company loves its money. If they could, they'd go to strip clubs and throw naked women at money." -Veronica, Veridian Dynamics.

 

"I have been offered a lot for my work, but never everything". - Chris Adams, hired gun.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

i think what you're ultimately trying to get at it this -- body awareness and the mind-muscle connection.

 

not many know this about me -- i played 6 sports growing up: golf, baseball (pitcher), hockey, basketball and was a competitive skiier when i was younger (under the age of 16).

 

i batted lefty and threw righty, i was a lefty hockey player, i'm right eye dominant, golf righty, kick with my left foot (predominantly) and otherwise am completely backwards in my talents.

 

as someone who's played all these different sports (and decently well) - i have to say the most consistent part of each of them is the connection between your mind and your physical nature, whether your dexterity, your strength (and weaknesses) and your balance.

 

every sport requires a certain aptitude and understanding to get better. at any stage of learning the sport -- you will pick up on "oh if i did this, felt this or moved like this...i could do ____ better" moments.

 

being a pitcher, i threw 91-92mph in high school. i got to college, got on some video and worked with our pitching coaches and maxed out at 94-95. that is a HUGE difference. i got there by hitting the gym, working on wasted or gaining efficiency in my mechanics -- the key is MY mechanics. if our closer, who was 5'10" (i'm 6'3") followed MY mechanics...he wouldn't have been as good as he was b/c we're completely different -- sure we might share similarities, but ultimately we'll be very different.

 

Just. like. golf.

SiM2 9* (set 1 tick higher loft) / Tensei AV White RAW prototype 2.0 65TX tipped 1" playing 45"

SiM / Rocket 3w (set 1 tick higher loft) / Diamana TB 70TX tipped 1.0"

SiM Max 3H / Tensei PW Hybrid 100TX

Apex MB Chrome / 3-PW / Modus 130 X

RTX Zipcore Black / 54, 60 / KBS Tour S+

Piretti Tour 801R / 35.5"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Throwing a baseball is actually more mechanical than you think, especially for pitchers...what you may see as a natural perfect throw, many baseball players would see as an eye sore with room for major improvement

 

This. If we handicapped throwing you wouldn’t be as good as you think especially compared to professionals like we do in golf. I was a pretty good qb in high school and could have went to smaller colleges if I wanted to. My mechanics were probably scratch compared to +6’s of the worlds best.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 big things....

 

1. Golf club is crooked. This leads to a ton of setup issues.

2. Fail/Success thoughts. If you throw at baseball at someone and its anywhere near them they will use their ability to catch it. Even if you routinely throw it wild but they still catch it you will never even consider that you are "bad" at it. With golf many people have ridiculous expectations which leads to constant negative attitude which leads to more bad decisions and shots. Strokes gained attitude is the biggest thing with regards to score.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You throw a baseball your weight just transfers you do not think about it but in Golf swing early extension comes into play or a stall. You hammer a nail into a post your right wrist is naturally bent and your left wrist is flat.I golf you can break the right wrist and then a flip or casting with poor impact position.Is the problem the brain gets in the way?

They're probably not as different as you think. Having a catch with your kid in the yard might be the equivalent of playing bogey golf at your local muni.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd agree with those that say that overhand throwing isn't as natural as some think. My point was that it was more natural to those that threw a lot as a kid.

 

I work in an industry where I have a lot of colleagues that are from other countries - in particular, most from places that don't commonly play sports where overhand throwing is a common. At one time, the company I worked for sponsored a lot of recreational softball for its employees. We'd often invite our guests from those other countries to join in. It was fun, enjoyable, and was a great time, but it was an unmitigated disaster from the standpoint of appropriate skills. Except for the one or two examples of those who came from Japan or Taiwan (baseball playing countries), most couldn't throw the ball with any semblance of competent skill. More than a few resorted to underhand tossing as at least the ball went in the proper direction and would eventually roll to the vicinity of the target.

 

OTOH, switch sports and make the game soccer, and the roles are quickly reversed. My US based coworkers would often flat out whiff trying to control a bouncing soccer ball.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Golf is hard. Hand someone a straight stick and tell the to just swing it and almost everyone can do it easily. Sit a ball on the ground and tell them to hit it and most can only do it repeatedly if they swing straight down at it. Have them swing sideways as to hit it along the ground and many will miss it. Now, give them a stick with a 50* bend in the last 6"........

 

So, swinging isn't that hard, but playing golf is. It takes a ton of practice and many still don't get it.

 

BT

 

Cobra LTD Pro 9.5° Proforce V2 Black 7F4 @ 44.5"
Cobra LTD Black 14.5° Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43"
Cobra F6 16.5° Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5"
Mizuno MP5 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Mizuno MP-T5 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
Grips - Grip Master Master Perforated Midsize

Oddysey Stroke Lab V-Line Blk 33.5"
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • Post in Generation 3 P790 in 2021?
      Post in Generation 3 P790 in 2021?
        • Thanks
        • Like
    • 2021 3M Open - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #5
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #6
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #7
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #8
       
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #5
       
       
       
      TaylorMade MG3 wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Mizuno 225 2 iron - 2021 3M Open
      TaylorMade Mini Driver - 2021 3M Open
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 3M Open
      New Odyssey putter cover - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Rypstick training aid - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi putters and covers - 2021 3M Open
      Kuch putting right armlock - 2021 3M Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 15 replies
    • 2021 TPC Colorado Champ. @ Heron Lakes WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #1
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #2
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #3
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #4
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #5
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #6
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #7
       
      Titleist T200 2& 3 irons - 2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes
       

       

       
      • 16 replies
    • 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic WITB Photos- Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here.
       
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #3
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #4
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #5
       
      Cameron putters - 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       

       
       
       
       
      • 15 replies
    • 2021 Travelers Championship - Discussion & Links
      2021 Titleist T100 irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist T100S irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist U 505 (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      Mitsubishi Tensei K series (red, white & blue US Open) shaft - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      Rickie Fowler's custom Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #2
       
      • 20 replies

×
×
  • Create New...