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Key Indicator For Increased Clubhead Speed -Dr Sasho MacKenzie


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7 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

You can the finest set of fast twitch muscles, don't apply them correctly it will do you little good. Some years ago i read a study that suggested Pro's swing with 75% efficiency, that ams swing with 55% efficiency.Sounds about right.

 

Good mechanics without flexibility won't get you very far either - just look at how far muscle bound guys hit it with good looking swings.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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I honestly stopped posting in your thread because I think you are delusional, feel free to "not promote" your ideas all you want in there, I want no part of that. But if you are going to interject you

Yes, which is 100% irrelevant in this thread and in by no means does it prove the "physics" you keep claiming as the basis to support your swing method   You keep saying you aren't promoting

You put this junk in your other thread at the same time so what's the point in resurrecting this deservedly dead mess?      

Just now, chipa said:

 

Good mechanics without flexibility won't get you very far either - just look at how far muscle bound guys hit it with good looking swings.

What muscle bound guy with a good looking swing is hitting it short? 

 

You don't really need a lot of flexibility. Lot of pga tour pros that are nothing special athletically. 

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16 minutes ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Thanks. So what do you mean when you say shaft “pointed back soon”? Thx 

 

Here is a video from MLDT that I referenced. Watch the video from where it starts until the 8 min. mark to see what I am talking about. This taught me at first glance to get the shaft pointed back soon then later I understood the wrists(not the hands) need to be really loose.

 

This technique differs from the one piece takeaway that Saguto Golf teaches(among others) where the left hand does not turn over until much later in the backswing. This is what I was taught too in the 90's. However, that's not the only way to do it and the MLDT method is a lot simpler and for me easier on the back. The left hand takes an active part in the takeaway by turning the club shaft back if its not obvious.

 

 

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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7 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

What muscle bound guy with a good looking swing is hitting it short? 

 

You don't really need a lot of flexibility. Lot of pga tour pros that are nothing special athletically. 

 

I am referring to guys I have seen playing like football players. I have never seen a muscle bound pga pro, there is a reason for that.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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Just now, chipa said:

 

I am referring to guys I have seen playing like football players. I have never seen a muscle bound pga pro, there is a reason for that.

And they have good swings? They probably have bad swings 

 

Yes, because you don't need to be athletic to play golf at a high level. Patrick Reed is not athletic or mobile/flexible, unless you call playing with sand athletic. Thomas, Xander, Morikawa. None of these guys are athletes. They're skinny dudes with good golf swings 

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Just now, pinhigh27 said:

And they have good swings? They probably have bad swings 

 

 

 

I said they have good "looking" swings not that they hit the ball like a pro.

 

 

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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Just now, GoTime said:

Chipa searches keywords like "physics" and "leverage" so he can find places to argue and tell people they're wrong. Especially teaching pros - may be his favorite past time. 

 

I am only pointing out flaws in the supposed physics that many teaching pros (and others claim) and the obvious flaws of the Mackenzie model I referenced.

 

I am not promoting my particular swing or I would have never posted a video of my swing with obvious problems, something I discussed before I even posted the video.

 

Next please.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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2 hours ago, chipa said:

I know this is an old thread but thought it was relevant to point out that Dr. Sasho Mackenzie's model does appears to be out dated as it does not include the energy stored and released by the flexible tissue in the body, the muscles and tendons specifically. This research already has been done in other sports like tennis. Here is an article.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445225/

 

https://playsmarttennis.com/2020/02/11/biomechanics-of-the-stroke-transfer-of-potential-to-the-kinetic-energy/

 

What this means is that the "kinetic chain" is more than a mechanical connection of joints that are subject torquing forces about said, rather the flexible tissues in the body store energy and then release it later in the particular movement.

 

For example the forces generated between the feet and the ground early in the golf swing can be temporarily stored then released to affect clubhead speed. This is the same concept that is employed in weightlifting, such as the bench press, squat and olympic lifting. Golf swing models that only take into account forces generated by the movement around joints are incomplete and misleading at best.

You put this junk in your other thread at the same time so what's the point in resurrecting this deservedly dead mess?  

 

 

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Just now, Hawkeye77 said:

You put this junk in your other thread at the same time so what's the point in resurrecting this deservedly dead mess?  

 

 

The physics my main man, the physics. The physics that he talks about...but can't actually support in any way shape or form. It's purely opinion and conjecture. 

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1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

The physics my main man, the physics. The physics that he talks about...but can't actually support in any way shape or form. It's purely opinion and conjecture. 

 

See articles below:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445225/

 

https://playsmarttennis.com/2020/02/11/biomechanics-of-the-stroke-transfer-of-potential-to-the-kinetic-energy/

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You put this junk in your other thread at the same time so what's the point in resurrecting this deservedly dead mess?  

 

 

 

I thought it was relevant to Mackenzie's theory.

 

I see people post in older threads now and then, so are you telling me this is now prohibited?

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Right, dig it up just to say you know better?  Now reposting the articles you posted a couple hours ago when you resurrected.  

 

Enjoy the quest.

 

Supporting a hypothesis with evidence is a normal part of any discussion. You do the same I'm sure.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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1 minute ago, games said:

He's just reviving the thread he originated prior to getting banned...

 

If I'm going to get banned I'd like to know what for.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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27 minutes ago, chipa said:

This is about as relevant in a GRF discussion as how far you think you hit one drive in 2004 is to justify how fast you think you swing today.

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3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

This is about as relevant in a GRF discussion as how far you think you hit one drive in 2004 is to justify how fast you think you swing today.

 

I was responding to your comment about my statements regarding the swing physics specifically the importance of loading and unloading flexible tissue in the body and how they generate clubhead speed.

 

BTW, I am not promoting my particular swing method, I don't know how many times I have to say that, only that understanding the loading of the muscles and tendons can help one generate a lot of clubhead speed. I'm not the only one that has pointed out that I'm not promoting my particular swing method. You are now updated buddy.

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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You’re focusing on all the wrong stuff. You don’t need to be thinking about loading muscles or tendons to hit it far. No long drive guy or pga tour player is thinking about this. They are byproducts of moving correctly. 
 

if you improve your swing you will load stuff more efficiently , hence how skinny 140 lb guys can hit it 300. but you don’t need to think about any of that for it to happen. You just have to move well. 
 

majoring in the minors. 

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18 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

I was responding to your comment about my statements regarding the swing physics specifically the importance of loading and unloading flexible tissue in the body and how they generate clubhead speed.

 

BTW, I am not promoting my particular swing method, I don't know how many times I have to say that, only that understanding the loading of the muscles and tendons can help one generate a lot of clubhead speed. I'm not the only one that has pointed out that I'm not promoting my particular swing method. You are now updated buddy.

Yes, which is 100% irrelevant in this thread and in by no means does it prove the "physics" you keep claiming as the basis to support your swing method

 

You keep saying you aren't promoting it, yet went out of your way to dig up a 2 year old thread to post 2 unrelated articles, and even went so far to make the assertion that these 2 articles somehow make the GRF work outdated, which is completely absurd. I don't honestly don't care about your swing method, but trying to use your theories to say a biomechanics PhD's work is outdated is laughable. 

 

 You can have an abundance of stored energy in your muscles and not hit it anywhere if that energy isn't applied at the right time and in the right direction (which is what the Mackenzie work is largely about)

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8 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Yes, which is 100% irrelevant in this thread and in by no means does it prove the "physics" you keep claiming as the basis to support your swing method

 

You keep saying you aren't promoting it, yet went out of your way to dig up a 2 year old thread to post 2 unrelated articles, and even went so far to make the assertion that these 2 articles somehow make the GRF work outdated, which is completely absurd. I don't honestly don't care about your swing method, but trying to use your theories to say a biomechanics PhD's work is outdated is laughable. 

 

 You can have an abundance of stored energy in your muscles and not hit it anywhere if that energy isn't applied at the right time and in the right direction (which is what the Mackenzie work is largely about)

 

I never once said I am promoting my swing method only that I can generate a lot of clubhead speed because of feeling lag. I even posted the problems with my swing from the very first post.

 

Can you now just give it a break?

Edited by chipa

 

Mazel 10.5 deg Accuflex Ultraboom X, i-Drive 2h Accuflex 82g X, Acer XV Pro/Tour 4i-S, FST 115 SX, TM TPA X

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You guys are being way to hostile towards this guy.  He is going to fight you all to the end and this thread is going to continue to be one big crap show.  First try to understand before judging and laying into the guy.  I know what it is like to be misunderstood and to come off the wrong way in online forums.  So many are quick to judge and rile up people instead of actually try to have a meaningful conversation.  Come on guys, do better.

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8 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I know you, you are better than this.

 I am a straight shooter, just calling it how I see it. I get you might have a sore spot for him since you both have home brewed swings and you feel like he is being attacked, but that just isn't the case. If you are going to make pretty wild assertions on a public golf forum, you open yourself up to constructive debate. No one asked him to revive this thread, but if he is going to make lofty claims, he will get responses. He is a big boy and doing this all on his own, no need to paint a picture like he is somehow being unfairly victimized here.

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9 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

 I am a straight shooter, just calling it how I see it. I get you might have a sore spot for him since you both have home brewed swings and you feel like he is being attacked, but that just isn't the case. If you are going to make pretty wild assertions on a public golf forum, you open yourself up to constructive debate. No one asked him to revive this thread, but if he is going to make lofty claims, he will get responses. He is a big boy and doing this all on his own, no need to paint a picture like he is somehow being unfairly victimized here.

 

Constructive debate is healthy, and what would be nice to see.  I don't see much of it thus far in either thread of his.  I for one found his point of view on this an interesting one.

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35 minutes ago, clevited said:

You guys are being way to hostile towards this guy.  He is going to fight you all to the end and this thread is going to continue to be one big crap show.  First try to understand before judging and laying into the guy.  I know what it is like to be misunderstood and to come off the wrong way in online forums.  So many are quick to judge and rile up people instead of actually try to have a meaningful conversation.  Come on guys, do better.

Baloney. I read that entire other thread and felt it did get out of hand a bit. In my discourse with him I never was hostile nor did I patronize him. Truth though, he's a 15 cap with a crap grip and passing dismissive judgement on Phd level research.

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8 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Baloney. I read that entire other thread and felt it did get out of hand a bit. In my discourse with him I never was hostile nor did I patronize him. Truth though, he's a 15 cap with a crap grip and passing dismissive judgement on Phd level research.

 

Not sure how having a bad grip, as defined by mainstream golfing instruction, or being a 15 cap makes him ineligible to discuss topics that interest him and he may have some interesting point of view on.  

 

Edit: also, if you aren't causing a problem, then no need to defend yourself.  

 

Anyways, I got my point across.  Hopefully this thread gets more interesting and less trollish.

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