My Soul is Broken (distance issue)

[Krt22]

Yeah very hard to generate speed with that swing. Inside take away, super flat, arms get pinned way behind the turn. I would work on getting the club more vertical early in the swing

[PorscheFan]

Any recent injury, no matter how trivial? Flat swing for sure, but I'm not sure that completely accounts for how slow your swing speed is, or if your swing has changed much from when you used to swing faster (comparison available??).

 

I lost 15mph overnight, twice, and in both cases it was down to injuries where my brain simply wouldn't let me swing any faster.

[SNIPERBBB]

Technique aside, you aren't going at the ball at all. Your going at that like it's a greenside pitch.

[Golf Scientist]

> @mrfld said:

> Down Line.

> http://youtu.be/zh99Zbixhq4

 

if your swing is slow (particularly from hip high down to impact) you're going to get slow ball speed as a result. Your setup and impact almost look identical. You definitely look off balance and on your toes both at setup and impact. Compare that with an efficient tour pros impact and you'll see quite a difference.

Flip a club around so the grip points down , and make swings where you make as loud a woosh as you possibly can.

 

 

 

 

[mrfld]

What I find interesting is that I've never seen myself swing. I see all the issues you all mention, but I don't know why it all changed. I started playing in 2011. From the start I hit 200 yards with a driver. Once I was hitting 260 I felt I personally needed no more. I was happy. Then one day I can't hit 150. I'll post another angle on my swing.

[mrfld]

Angle 2

http://youtu.be/MhTPCIQSGs8

[Krt22]

What did the tour pro you got lessons from work on you with? I'm not a pro but there are some glaring power robbing flaws that should be fixable with a good instructor.

[naj959]

Looks like you suck the club inside and behind you with all arms and no pivot. From that position you have to throw the club out in front of your body in order to hit the ball at all. So all arms, being off balance, and throwing the club from the top are a recipe for huge power leaks. Hopefully Dan or Monte will chime in. If your pro didn't mention any of these issues I'd seriously consider seeking a second opinion.

[PorscheFan]

 

There are certainly things in your swing that aren’t ‘tour caliber’ (e.g. you dump your wrist angles early) but I don’t think anything quite explains 160 yards carry with a driver. I could swing with just my arms and still get decent carry with a driver.

 

You used to swing faster. My guess is you didn’t suddenly revert from tour-grade rotation to a more armsy motor pattern. That doesn’t seem too probable.

 

@SNIPERBBB said it: it’s just a super slow movement. It doesn’t look like you’re going after it. No expert, but I assume if your pro could find a way to time your release a little better you could still get more distance out of the same swing intensity.

 

 

[mrfld]

> @Krt22 said:

> What did the tour pro you got lessons from work on you with? I'm not a pro but there are some glaring power robbing flaws that should be fixable with a good instructor.

 

 

Swing inside out. Rotate shoulder more.

 

 

[mrfld]

 

> @SNIPERBBB said it: it’s just a super slow movement. It doesn’t look like you’re going after it. No expert, but I assume if your pro could find a way to time your release a little better you could still get more distance out of the same swing intensity.

>

>

>

 

It is true I'm not going after it in those videos. However, swinging with everything produces no extra distance. The faster I swing I get more outside in and wide open face angle.

 

I did have herniated disk previously. I still get back spasm but not tearing pain like I used to.

 

[b_f_c_99]

Your original post you said you didn’t think you were casting. Well you are, I’ve never seen a worse cast. I’m actually inclined to believe this whole thing is a gag and your doing that intentionally.

[Krt22]

> @mrfld said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > What did the tour pro you got lessons from work on you with? I'm not a pro but there are some glaring power robbing flaws that should be fixable with a good instructor.

>

>

> Swing inside out. Rotate shoulder more.

>

>

 

I’d find someone else or perhaps even try an online lesson with our own Monte or Dan. Swinging inside out is a by product of everything else before impact. Your issues start very early in the swing, need to start there first

[PorscheFan]

> @mrfld said:

 

> It is true I'm not going after it in those videos. However, swinging with everything produces no extra distance. The faster I swing I get more outside in and wide open face angle.

>

> I did have herniated disk previously. I still get back spasm but not tearing pain like I used to.

>

I've had two herniated discs. Sometimes the brain will lock up the back muscles to increase stability if it thinks you're on the verge of injury. That will primarily affect your consistency in face-to-path and secondarily affect speed by limiting your hip rotation, but it probably won't be a consistent factor (i.e. some days your back will feel good) so it shouldn't lead to consistent dramatic drop-offs in speed.

 

Going at it harder that what's shown on video causing significant path changes? Sounds like balance drills and a few anti-rotational exercises might help.

 

The casting is significant in that side-by-side. It's like you're heading into impact with a putting stroke. Maybe - paradoxically - whatever you're trying to do to hold onto lag is having the complete opposite effect. Definitly something your pro should be able to help you with in short order... It wouldn't be hard to make major improvements there. That's got to be step number 1 to quickly get your soul 'unbroken'.

 

EDIT: in 2D you seem to be trying to force some extreme wrist angles at the top of the backswing, then you have no option but to just start immediately dumping them from the very start of the downswing. Maybe something else to look at with your instructor... go a little less strong with forcing those angles in and maybe you'll have a better chance of storing some to unleash heading into impact...

 

 

Finally, if you used SuperSpeed clubs and did just the basic protocols, your balance and your casting issues would both get better - no doubt about that. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't.

[Zitlow]

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Haven't been following the thread very closely. Is this the OP? Whoever it is looks very good at the top with the exception of his packed right which screws up his downswing.

 

His right arm should be in a throwing position. I could nit pick a couple other things but he looks more dynamic at the top than 95%+ of the swings I see posted here.

 

[mrfld]

> @b_f_c_99 said:

> Your original post you said you didn’t think you were casting. Well you are, I’ve never seen a worse cast. I’m actually inclined to believe this whole thing is a gag and your doing that intentionally.

 

Not a gag. I've got better stuff to do than a 1 year gag.

[mgoblue83]

Thanks for posting the videos. They confirmed that while there are always technical things to clean up your distance issues are easily fixable.

 

What I see is:

You are not using your body at all its just a slow turn of arms back and through. It's similar to a green chip shot or a putt.

There is nothing athletic happening - no athletic "move".

 

The fix:

Golf is no different than throwing a baseball or football, shooting a hockey puck, swinging a bat or a million other things. You have to shift your weight like you are stepping into a throw and LET IT RIP.

Like someone said above following the Superspeed Golf protocol would do wonders for you but you don't need to purchase it. Go to Goodwill or a used sporting goods store and buy a super cheap old club. Take it out to a field and practice getting into your stance and throwing it as far as you can down the field as you swing. I doubt it would go more than 20 yards with your current swing but you would double it overnight with a little weight transfer and effort.

 

 

 

 

[Golfonthemind]

I’ll share my distance loss story in case it helps at all. In my teens I played a big draw on every shot and hit the ball fairly far by most standards ( 175 yard seven iron, 275ish carry with driver). In my early 20s I got a hold of a decent video camera and started to pick apart my swing. My old takeaway was very inside, arms would then lift at the top, but I did a good job of syncing it back up on the way down and would just play a 30 yard draw with driver.

 

I changed the takeaway to one that was essentially me picking the club up and outside. At this point I started to lose some distance. Every announcer, local pro, hack at the driving range all said to hit it far you have to fire the lower body. So that’s what I did, pick the club up with the hands and fire the low body as hard as I could. The more I did that the shorter and shorter I got. Got to a point where my back was killing me and I was hitting driver maybe 200 in the air. Harder I tried to swing the more loft I would add to the shot, release the angles etc.

 

Fast forward to now ( about to turn 30) and I am hitting it as far or probably farther than I did in my teens. My swing is just focused on hinging wrists in the takeaway, allowing my body to actually rotate going back, and then reversing that on the way down. I’m actively trying to release my wrists very hard in the downswing ( in sync with body rotating) and no longer have any issues with back pain or distance.

[PorscheFan]

> @Zitlow said:

 

> Haven't been following the thread very closely. Is this the OP? Whoever it is looks very good at the top with the exception of his packed right which screws up his downswing.

>

> His right arm should be in a throwing position. I could nit pick a couple other things but he looks more dynamic at the top than 95%+ of the swings I see posted here.

>

Too much angle in the right elbow / lead arm pressed too much across his chest. Really the same thing said two different ways. Either way the angles are too much to actually deliver power (as you said, to deliver a 'throwing' motion')

 

Same with wrist angles. Too much. Trying too hard leading to worse results.

 

OP is trying really hard to get in the 'right' backswing position, but I'd argue there are just way too many angles in here. Soften those angles and there's a better chance of success IMO.

 

Hilariously, Monte had this licked from his first post before even seeing any pics or video... Simply assessing the OP's words. Pretty impressive!

[Z1ggy16]

OP you need to find a new coach, whether it be locally or online with Monte or Dan. Sometimes with drastic swing changes you do get a little worse before you get better, but that should not last long. If I was in your shoes and I wasn't seeing large improvements within 3 lessons, I would ditch that guy. Honestly, with as many issues as you have in the swing (sorry no offense, no harm meant) I would expect some decent improvement after just 1 lesson.

[Krt22]

> @PorscheFan said:

> > @Zitlow said:

>

> > Haven't been following the thread very closely. Is this the OP? Whoever it is looks very good at the top with the exception of his packed right which screws up his downswing.

> >

> > His right arm should be in a throwing position. I could nit pick a couple other things but he looks more dynamic at the top than 95%+ of the swings I see posted here.

> >

> Too much angle in the right elbow / lead arm pressed too much across his chest. Really the same thing said two different ways. Either way the angles are too much to actually deliver power (as you said, to deliver a 'throwing' motion')

>

> Same with wrist angles. Too much. Trying too hard leading to worse results.

>

> OP is trying really hard to get in the 'right' backswing position, but I'd argue there are just way too many angles in here. Soften those angles and there's a better chance of success IMO.

>

> Hilariously, Monte had this licked from his first post before even seeing any pics or video... Simply assessing the OP's words. Pretty impressive!

 

You can't ignore how flat he is either and call that a good position, in the DTL view his left arm is nearly parallel with the ground. Combine that with his intent to "hold the lag", it seems like his arms get very passive/stuck with no room to go anywhere, so body has to stall and arms have to throw away all of the angles otherwise we would completely whiff.

[glk]

OP suffers from poor concept of golf swing. In short arms swing around the body versus pivot provide the around and arms provide the up. First step is to learn the correct concept.

Shorter to the point drill

[jut111]

> @glk said:

> OP suffers from poor concept of golf swing. In short arms swing around the body versus pivot provide the around and arms provide the up. First step is to learn the correct concept.

>

 

So much this. You've got no shot to improve if you don't understand what you're supposed to be doing on a conscious and more importantly subconscious level.

[Zitlow]

This is a right arm throwing position. Take your address posture without a club, place the fingertips of your right hand on top of your right shoulder. Now turn and unfold your right elbow. You now have a right arm throwing position.

 

 

[nlk10010]

My takeaway from this is the following: It's not hard to figure out why the distances are so short. Those are MY distances and they are what they are because I am afraid to lose control in the downswing, keeping tension in my arms and trying to guide the club head into the ball. I develop absolutely no speed with my wrists (nor with my pivot since I use an arm swing). It's like I am "pushing" the ball off the tee. What I can't figure out is how the OP's distance dropped so drastically. How could he possibly have hit the ball as far as he did with that kind of swing (no offense meant, I'm sure there's an answer, I just can't think of it right now)? It's as if someone gave him a drill to increase lag but he brought it to the range/course and is concentrating too hard on executing it.

[PorscheFan]

> @nlk10010 said:

> My takeaway from this is the following: It's not hard to figure out why the distances are so short. Those are MY distances and they are what they are because I am afraid to lose control in the downswing, keeping tension in my arms and trying to guide the club head into the ball. I develop absolutely no speed with my wrists (nor with my pivot since I use an arm swing). It's like I am "pushing" the ball off the tee. What I can't figure out is how the OP's distance dropped so drastically. How could he possibly have hit the ball as far as he did with that kind of swing (no offense meant, I'm sure there's an answer, I just can't think of it right now). It's as if someone gave him a drill to increase lag but he brought it to the range/course and is concentrating too hard on executing it.

 

Agreed. Creating lag _seems_ synonymous with maxing angles. Paridoxically, maxing angles isn't necessarily synonymous with optimizing lag and release timing.

[Golf Scientist]

> @mrfld said:

> It is true I'm not going after it in those videos. However, swinging with everything produces no extra distance. The faster I swing I get more outside in and wide open face angle.

>

> I did have herniated disk previously. I still get back spasm but not tearing pain like I used to.

>

There are lots of different ways to swing. See the video below to see a few styles available to you. Given you spine issue, and your assumption for why you think you leave the face open at impact the momentum style swing may be a good method for you to adopt.

 

 

[mrfld]

First I want to say thank you to everyone. I will be reading and rereading everything. I left a lot out to not bore people in my OP.

 

Yes I had a major back issue. Today I'm 99% normal 99% of the days. I took a 6 lessons between 2012-2014, read 5 Lessons, and at some point, I had it "figured out". Tee to green my friends couldn't touch me. While 260 isn't going to get me on the tour, I only played about 11 rounds a year, but went to the driving range all the time. I loved to practice.

 

The day I distinctively remember the problems, I had just played 9 holes at 4 over. I had some time left and decided to go back to the range before going home. I was really tired and hit poorly. The next time at the range was equally poorly. I kept going back to the range and distances were dropping. I kept trying "harder" to do more of the "good stuff".

 

As time went on, the swing became more painful, awkward, and out of sync. It feels disgusting today. The video looks the way my swing feels. I don't know what I used to look like but I doubt it matches my current swing.

 

The guy I'm seeing now I'll stick with for the time being. My first lesson I was swinging 20* outside in and 15* open. Today those numbers are in the single digits for each. He did ask why I swing so slow at the first. At the end of the last lesson he said, "we gotta get you less flat."

 

Finally, this is not a joke. That I promise. Hopefully a year from now, things are better. Oh one last thing, my 6 year old can hit 80 yards with his driver. I might take his clubs away until I improve...