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Reply from Hidden Links regarding guaranteed Old Course times and changing Carnoustie out:

 

Hi Rick!  I’m never for not recommending Carnoustie unless the group has already been over and played it.  It’s a widely known Rota course for sure, but it’s really got great rates in April and if you have first timers on the trip, they will likely want to include.  I know I love watching tournaments on courses I’ve played and Carnoustie will host multiple championships over the next decade+ starting with the Women’s Open next year!  We’ll set it up though exactly as you’d like!  I’ve updated below with Elie instead of Carnoustie.  Elie is a fun, classic links that our presidents family are members at!

Since all 2020 tours were rescheduled into 2021, there are no guaranteed times for a group of 8.  There are barely a handful of two balls all year left at this point.  We’ll be able to quote guaranteed times for 2022 next June, but normal premiums for guaranteed times can range from $1000-1300 to well north of $2000 additional per golfer over the ballot price below in normal years.  In years where the Old Course is hosting The Open, like 2022, inventory is reduced by more than a quarter as the Old Course is shut down for over a month leading up to the tournament and the premiums can be as much as 2-3x the normal already very pricey ones!  April times would be on the lower side of that spectrum.  I’m always happy to adjust further or answer any questions you have along the way!

 

The price does drop from $2751.37 to $2561.38 by changing Carnoustie out for Elie.

 

@pigpenblues My Dad has done the RTJ trail and enjoyed it, it would be harder for our group to pull that off given the amount of traveling between courses.  Pinehurst has been great for us as we just check in, play courses that are accessible by shuttle or by carpooling without have to check in and out of hotels.  Both St. Andrews and Bandon seem to fit that bill better than the RTJ Trail.  When I retire at the tender age of 70 I will attempt the RTJ Trail.

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OC I have done two trips over to Scotland. Agree with DC's comments. The first was with 4 guys. We stayed in one hotel the whole time. We did get to play the Old Course as part of the trip but as twosome with other people we did not know. Enjoyed Edinbourg but there is a lot more to see in many of the old towns. The second trip was with 8 guys. We rented a driver for the week and a 10 person coach. We paid a company for the driver and vehicle, split 8 ways was pretty cheap and the best thing to do. We moved everyday to a new B&B. The driver dropped us at the course and then unloaded us at the next B&B. He came back for us when the golf was over for the day. We tipped him $800 for the week. He drank and eat on us everyday plus he was paid by his company. He even played golf with us one day on the extra 9 holes.

 We played 27 or 36 everyday. The walking got tough by the 6 day. We lucked out both times with the weather(September). We were gone for 10 days, 2 travel days and 8 days of golf. I can't pick a favorite course but Carnousie would be at the top of the list or very close. There are a ton of very good courses not on the normal list of places to play like Scotscraig, Crail, Cruden Bay, Nairn and Gullane. Some are 9 holer's an played as a second round.

The first trip was over 5K. The second trip was 3.5K and the better of the two trips. We eat at pub's mostly and the food, well lets say it ain't the same as being home. Story in it's self, I was offered a chef's job at the local pub lol.

If you go in 2022 I would being willing to do this again.

 

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On 9/3/2020 at 2:52 PM, Ocgolfrick said:

#Scotland2021

 

Obviously, our planning hit a minor snag.  At the present time, we are not allowed in Scotland without a 14 day quarantine.  That being said, here are preliminary numbers from Hidden Links for an April 2021 itinerary:

Flying into Edinburgh- stay is at Ardgowan Hotel.

Day 1: St. Andrews- Jubilee

Day 2: St. Andrews- New

Day 3: Carnoustie

Day 4: Crail

Day 5: Kingsbarns

Day 6: Try for the Ballot at St. Andrews

Day 7: Leave

 

6 nights accomodation, 6 rounds of golf, Breakfast included.  Transfer from airport, Driver to Crail, Carnoustie, and Kingsbarns included.

Price: $2751.37 per person.  

Airfare:  Virgin Atlantic to Edinbugh non stop currently running about $1450.  Air Canada from BWI to EDI with a stop in Paris (Ah, Paris!) running approx $900-$1000.

 

 

OR

 

#BandonDunes2021

April 2021 rates for golf: $175 with a $90 replay rate per day.

Lodging: Lily Pond 2 bed units running at $330 ($165 per man per day) or 

4 BR Grove Cottage (sleeps 8 I THINK) $1600 per night April rates

 

5 day Bandon Golf: $875 for 1 round a day + Lily Pond $825 = $1700.  

Airfare from BWI to SFO to OTH (North Bend Oregon) currently running at $420 (its a sign!)

 

My Thoughts

1) I almost feel like if we can't GUARANTEE the Old Course, it would be a letdown.  This is assuming we're even ALLOWED over there in April in the first place.  If we do the walkup/ballot- then we're going off as onesome and twosomes IF we get off.  This is my current understanding of things.  But then I think if we ARE allowed to travel- would there be crowd, or would there not?  Maybe it wouldn't be an issue.

2)I have no desire to play Carnoustie.

3) But I  gotta play Kingsbarns.

4) Airfare to Bandon is so cheap I can't help but think if you're going to do Bandon this may be the year.  I ran it a couple times and kept getting the same number.  Feel like #Scotland2022 or #Scotland2023 may be the way to go, but if it opens up.....hmmmm.


For $49.95 we can become Scottish Lords in preparation for our trip:

 

https://establishedtitles.com
 

 

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Oh for 8 guys? You have no chance of getting on the Old Course. One foursome is impossible enough - their reply sounded straight on to me. Elie is a nice local track that gets good ratings. But to me thats like swapping out....RTJ for Greendale - there's absolutely no comparison. I feel for you though, as I found out in planning Bandon - it is not at all easy getting people to commit time - and money up front - for a trip that is more than a year out.

 

Just got back from a 48 hour Vegas run. Gotta say travel is a breeze when the planes are half full.

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22 minutes ago, ceejay81 said:

Carnoustie is my most favorite course I’ve ever played. Simply an amazing course. I’m convinced @Ocgolfrick’s whole post is to troll me. I’m sure of it. 

 

I thought it was a troll post to me but I'll accept your interpretation as well.

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1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I thought it was a troll post to me but I'll accept your interpretation as well.

I should have said “us” ?  

 

In all seriousness, I went there with sort of low expectations (awaiting a beat down and ugly course) and was completely blown away by the conditions of the course, the views for each shot (think “Spectacles”), and the layout. We’ve seen it on tv a million times but in person it’s different.  Really the overall experience was amazing. The smoothest and best greens I’ve putted on. Also had a great caddie that had perfect reads all day long. I like golf history and that place has a lot of it too. 

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In my thinking that I wouldn't want to play Carnoustie, remember that I pretty much suck at golf.  And if the group wanted to play it, I would play it.  I would like to play a round or two with some actual Scots around and not be surrounded by fellow Americans.  I looked at Leven and Lundin as well. If Carnoustie is as playable as you say, then sure, I'm in.

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5 minutes ago, Ocgolfrick said:

In my thinking that I wouldn't want to play Carnoustie, remember that I pretty much suck at golf.  And if the group wanted to play it, I would play it.  I would like to play a round or two with some actual Scots around and not be surrounded by fellow Americans.  I looked at Leven and Lundin as well. If Carnoustie is as playable as you say, then sure, I'm in.

 

Just move up a set of tees, you'll find it is very playable. Scotland in general is not the place to puff up and have to play tees you're not comfortable playing just because everyone else is. I played the red tees with my group at Carnoustie, in blowing winds that 6200 yards was all I could handle. And FUN. You'll find over there that locals have zero issues playing shorter tees.

 

But IMO you'll find tons of Americans at every single course you go to - even local courses, its just the way it is. On the way home one night our cab driver called the Dunvegan "the American embassy" because thats where all the Americans went to hang out at night. Had to have been the most overrated part of the trip.

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3 hours ago, Ocgolfrick said:

In my thinking that I wouldn't want to play Carnoustie, remember that I pretty much suck at golf.  And if the group wanted to play it, I would play it.  I would like to play a round or two with some actual Scots around and not be surrounded by fellow Americans.  I looked at Leven and Lundin as well. If Carnoustie is as playable as you say, then sure, I'm in.

 

Oh, if it's just about playability, then you're totally fine.  Guaranteed now you'll have 45mph winds and a miserable experience.

 

Enough of this 2022 talk.  Need more #Bandon2021 hype!

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Alright golf nerds, explain this pin position / greens sheet to me.  We visited family in Winston-Salem so I played The Cardinal by Pete Dye in Greensboro.  The carts had daily pin position cards, below, and the pin location is pretty self explanatory like #1 the pin is 15 on and 5 from the right.  The depth of the green ("D") is self explanatory.  What I do not understand, and the other guys I was paired with did not understand either, is the positive and negative numbers below the hole number and the green and red pie cut outs near the pin.  

 

Take hole #3 for example, second photo below.  #3 has a "-4" next to it, but this cannot refer to the elevation of the green as the green is severely elevated from the fairway.  The green pie cut outs seem to give you an uphill putt so maybe green means "good" and red means "bad" as you have a downhill putt?  The positive and negative numbers under the hole numbers have me totally baffled.  Thoughts?  Guesses?  

 

    

Cardinal1.jpg

Cardinal2.jpg

Edited by ALTSean
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13 minutes ago, Ocgolfrick said:

My guess is that its the amount of yardage away from the center of the green. Look at No.7 with the pin way back, then it has a +9 next to it.

 

Ok, that does make sense and the math works.  Good thing I'm not good enough to aim for the pin and don't have to worry about these fancy pin sheets. ?   

 

Do you agree that the green and red pie slices indicate preferred places to putt from?  

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28 minutes ago, SullGolf said:

Green/red being preferred putting locations seems to be the case, but I've never encountered that on a sheet so can't say for certain.  It looks to align with uphill/downhill.  Maybe rather than "preferred" it means "straight". 

 

Ok, that makes sense.  It is a cool feature to include with the round and the fact that they print a new sheet daily is impressive.  The course was also only $51 for a Sunday afternoon so I'd recommend it if you're in the area.

 

#12 is a 200 yard par 3 with water left, trees and a creek right and not much room short or long.  Pete Dye apparently called it the hardest Par 3 he ever designed.  The picture below does not quite do it justice, but it is a difficult hole.  I pulled a long iron left into the water and if I played it again, I would be tempted to hit a PW short as a layup, then a short wedge onto the green and try to 2 putt for a solid bogey and be happy.

 

 

Sedgefield_Country_Club-Dye_Course-photo.jpg

Slide1.JPG

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4 hours ago, ALTSean said:

 

Ok, that makes sense.  It is a cool feature to include with the round and the fact that they print a new sheet daily is impressive.  The course was also only $51 for a Sunday afternoon so I'd recommend it if you're in the area.

 

#12 is a 200 yard par 3 with water left, trees and a creek right and not much room short or long.  Pete Dye apparently called it the hardest Par 3 he ever designed.  The picture below does not quite do it justice, but it is a difficult hole.  I pulled a long iron left into the water and if I played it again, I would be tempted to hit a PW short as a layup, then a short wedge onto the green and try to 2 putt for a solid bogey and be happy.

 

 

Sedgefield_Country_Club-Dye_Course-photo.jpg

Slide1.JPG

Signature Dye par 3 move other than the island green par3. There’s one at Perry Cabin and  Bulle Rock but with water on the right. Laying up on par3s? Seriously..

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I rarely agree with Aiyyer, but intentionally laying up on a par 3 has got to be one of the lamest things ever.  

 

You can make an easy bogey in other ways without admitting to that level of eunuchness.

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I mentioned this a couple weeks ago. I have a new appreciation for Worthington Manor. Played it again today and I'm really liking it. Not sure why I didn't like it before. Seems like it's ways in good shape, based on my two times playing and reading this forum from the guys that play it. I may now like it more than Whiskey. Good mix of holes. Not all get up and hit driver. 

 

Now all I have to do is figure out how to not screw up the par 3's. 

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1 hour ago, eagle1997 said:

I rarely agree with Aiyyer, but intentionally laying up on a par 3 has got to be one of the lamest things ever.  

 

You can make an easy bogey in other ways without admitting to that level of eunuchness.


Absolutely disagree with everything Eagle in general but he’s correct. You have to man up and play certain holes as intended and designed by the designer. Move up a tee if you need to....

Take 18 at Perry Cabin. Par 4 requires 2 or three great shots with the wind in your face to get to the green as intended by the designer. Easy way would be to hit it to the adjacent fairway but that fairway is out of bounds as designated to discourage wussiness on a great closing hole.


 

AA2FEC94-FC02-411E-9167-1F56CF440058.jpeg

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On 8/31/2020 at 3:16 PM, ALTSean said:

Big thanks to @Ocgolfrick for hosting me at OCGC yesterday.  We played with OC's brother (is he on here???) and MeatMike1.0 (also not likely on here).  The weather was perfect, the course was in great shape and the company was passable, many shiggles were had.   We played a game that @Ocgolfrick told me he invented called a "Nassau."  The other brother and I lost the first 6 hole match.  @Ocgolfrick and I became best buds for the middle 6 hole match and pulled out a win on the 12th hole.  MeatMike1.0 and I then figured the game was easier if you just win all the holes so we won the last 6 hole match 6 - 0.  I walked off the 18th green $5 richer and impressed with @Ocgolfrick's betting game.  I have not quite figured it out, but this betting on golf matches thing may catch on.  OC's brother struck it well and had two eagle putts, #9 and #18, but alas his putter betrayed him and he walked off both greens without capturing any feathered creatures.  MeatMike 1.0 was a quiet assassin all day hitting solid shots and timely putts.  @Ocgolfrick was a skilled caddy directing me around the marshes of OC while providing timely comic relief.  There are rumors of the OC Boys making an appearance at The Hive CC in a few weeks and possibly looking for some side bets.      

 

 

Obligatory golf photo below of the Par 3 #17, there is a green there somewhere:

Ocean City.jpg

@ALTSean had a great time playing Newport Bay with you despite my play.  Thanks for not revealing my 4-putt.  I might have to change my handle.  

 

Was curious about Blue Mash so I checked out their website.  Impressed with their video caddie yardage book.  Seems to be a pretty good snapshot of each hole.  This will be my first time playing it.  I thought it was going to be from the tips, but looks like its from the blues.   https://www.bluemash.com/golf-course/yardage-book/

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